1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    Could somebody test if these moves ignore Substitute?

    Curse (used by a Ghost)
    Mimic
    Sketch
    Transform
    Grudge
    Defog
  2. MINSC

    MINSC

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18

    I tested 'Sing-A-Round'.

    [example]

    Jaroda (speed 115)
    Reshiram (speed 90)
    Swampert (speed 60)

    If Jaroda, Reshiram and Swampert use Sing-A-Round in same turn in Triple battle, Jaroda's Sing-A-Round base power is 60, and Reshiram and Swampert's Sing-A-Round base power is 120.


    [example]

    my pokemon

    Jaroda (speed 115)
    Reshiram (speed 90)
    Swampert (speed 60)


    opponent's pokemon

    Victiny (speed 100)
    Wargle (speed 80)
    Daikenki (speed 70)


    Ordinary order
    : Jaroda -> Victiny -> Reshiram -> Wargle -> Daikenki -> Swampert

    If Jaroda and Swampert use Sing-a-Round in same turn, Jaroda's next is Swampert. No Victiny.


    When jaroda and Swampert use Sing-a-Round
    : Jaroda -> Swampert -> Victiny -> Reshiram -> Wargle -> Swampert

    So, If your Fastest pokemon and your powerful slowest pokemon use Sing-a-Round in a same turn, it's good idea.





    It' is done. No more remained about Sing-A-Round's factor.
    It's all I can do.

    p.s. ooooo.... I think I'm ineffective at English.
  3. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    English is a silly language and you're doing very well.

    So I guess 'troll' (or Sing-a-round) is really only good for multi battles then.
  4. mien

    mien
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    713
    Mimic, Sketch, Curse and Grudge ignored Substitude
    Transform and Defog failed on a substitude (Defog failed to lower evasion and to remove Light Screen)

    Results are strange, if i remember it correctly the mechanics are the opposite in D/P.
  5. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug 銀時 ☆彡 King of the Dessert ☆彡 銀時
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,242
    Arceus's sprite doesn't change when it's holding a plate now. I just pokesaved an Arceus and tested it, it showed me the normal form. I tested it against wild Pokemon too, my Arceus was a Ghost type and a Headbutt from a wild Zuruggu didn't do any damage at all.

    Only way to figure out its type now is by hitting it by multiple moves, or just try to see what Judgement is super effective against, etc.

    Also, jumpluff says that the Arceus sprites don't exist in the game, so yeah.

    EDIT: apparently I just had to remove the plate and give it to Arceus again to change the sprite. Sorry :/ would've been cool if it was true.
  6. joehigashi

    joehigashi

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    128
    Curse hits through a substitute..tested ingame
  7. coyotte508

    coyotte508
    is a Programmer Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    157
    I know at least the boosts are "swapped". (Tested by slipperjeans). I assumed everything was swapped, but that's still to be tested.

    If you read carefully MINSC's post, the effect is "As long as one pokemon uses Echo Voice during the turn, the next turn Echo Voice's power will be raised by 40".

    That log is especially blatant:
    The Japanese description also agrees, because it says "if someone" (dareka) instead of talking about the user. And anyway, that matches the concept of "Echo".

    I'm just saying this should be tentative, not untested =)

    Tested By Slipperjeans again. When a berry is lost, a pick up pokemon picks it immediately and eats it immediately. If there are several pick up pokemon, they can all do that (even the original eater of the berry, after the pickup partner eats it). The order was not tested (probably speed). And they only ate it once, so it's assumed pickup works only once per turn, but it could be that it works once per berry.
  8. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Hold it. I've had pickup activate and the pokemon held onto the berry without eating it. It was an oran.
  9. coyotte508

    coyotte508
    is a Programmer Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    157
    I'll ask slipperjeans for explanations. Maybe it just bypasses the 50% limit then. I'll see.
  10. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    Dang, that's disappointing. I was trying to figure out what the last move flag was for. Your results matched my expectations all except for Defog, which should have ignored Substitute.

    Thanks for the tests! It's great to know that so many things now bypass Substitute. We'll have to do a more thorough test (on other moves with Substitute) later.
  11. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    ok just making sure. Also, it seems that pokemon don't take damage from sand storm while using Dig. Is this new?
  12. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
    No. It's acted this way since 3rd gen.
  13. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    I just realized that we did this test wrong, so I went in and re-tested, and yeah, this was wrong sorry. I'm deleting it from the OP right now!

    Anyways, more Rotation battle research coming soon!
  14. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    It also appears that Flying type attacks can also hit the far side in triple battles. My Koaruhii was able to target the furthest Pokemon with Fly and Aerial Ace, as well as Water Pulse (confirming what's been said before), but not with Surf
  15. cobaph

    cobaph

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    About Pokesav'ed Pokemon, I've gotten mixed results for Random WiFi.

    Normally caught Doryuuzu editted with Pokesav made it through.
    PKMN-Modifier-code caught Doryuuzu editted with Pokesav did not pass.
    PKMN-Modifier-code caught Doryuuzu not-editted passed.
    Pokesav'ed from nothing Doryuuzu did not pass.

    As far as this test shows, you can re-enter Random WiFi despite having Sav'ed Pokemon being blocked, so there's no worry of a "ban" from trading GTS Pokemon that are Sav'ed. I would think GTS would have the same restraints as Random WiFi, reducing the risk even further, but I haven't tried it.

    Otherwise, I don't have enough results to tell what's causing the block yet.
  16. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    I have a feeling it will only activate if the Pickup Pokemon meets the requirements for the Berry. So Oran and Sitris will only activate if the Pokemon is below 50% health, Lum will only activate if the Pokemon is statused, and Leichi, Salac, etc. will only activate if the Pokemon is below 25% health.
  17. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,140
    Short test: This was done in double wild Pokemon battles, with my Reshiram and Zekrom attacking each other

    Zekrom: 396 Atk, 234 SDef, vs Reshiram: 399 SAtk, 236 Def. Both Lv.100

    Reshiram used Cross Flame (93 damage)
    Zekrom used Cross Thunder (203 damage)

    Zekrom used Cross Thunder (99 damage)
    Reshiram used Cross Flame (209 damage)

    Zekrom used Cross Thunder (99 damage)
    Reshiram used Cross Flame (189 damage)

    ***It appears that Cross Thunder / Flame get doubled in power when used after the other.

    Cross Thunder or Flame also get boosted at any time they are used after each other. In another match, I had both Zekrom and Reshiram attack the wild Pokemon instead of each other. The one who used the move after got the boost, while the one who went first didn't get the boost
  18. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    I went data diving over at stuff.veekun.com again and I believe the move Cotton Guard should raise Defense by three levels. Can anyone confirm this?
  19. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    Setsuna and I just finished testing a LOT more Rotatioin battle stuff! We definitely had some very interesting finds :). First, we tested this:
    We can confirm that Rotating a Pokemon out does not remove its buffs/debuffs, ability changes, and Leech Seed. Leech Seed does not take effect while the Pokemon is rotated out, however. But when you rotate the Pokemon back in, it loses health to Leech Seed.

    Here are some more awesome Rotation battle findings:

    1. All abilities that are only triggered upon a Pokemon entering the battle do not activate if said Pokemon is merely rotated in. This includes Intimidate, weather abilities, etc. However, if you switch the Pokemon in from your party, its ability will activate.
    2. Other constantly present abilities like Pressure only get announced if you lead with the Pokemon, or switch them in from inside a Pokeball. If you rotate one of these Pokemon in, the game will not announce the ability, but its effect will still be active (you will still lose 2 PP if you attack a Pressure Pokemon, etc.).
    3. Natural Cure does not activate upon rotating a Pokemon out.
    4. Pokemon do not receive status damage while they are rotated out.
    5. The game remembers status counters for Toxic and Sleep. In other words, if you take one turn of Toxic damage (6.25%) then rotate out, the next time you rotate in, you will take increased Toxic damage (12.5%) instead of starting back at 6.25% again. Your Sleep count also gets saved, instead of being reset like it does upon switching out, if you rotate out your total slept turns is still counted.
    6. The effects of Encore, Taunt, etc. get carried with the Pokemon when they are rotated out. In other words, if you are Taunted and you rotate out, the next time you get rotated in, Taunt will still be in effect. Same with Encore, etc.
    7. The game remembers each Pokemon's last move before rotating out, and Encore will force said Pokemon to use their last move if they are rotated back into a faster Encore.
    8. If a Pokemon's type is changed, it will remain changed even if the Pokemon is rotated out. The only way to get rid of a typing change is to use another move that changes its typing, or withdraw the Pokemon into its Pokeball.
    9. It appears to be that the act of Rotating is considered a free action. We tried a few things to damage an opponent before rotating out, but none worked. This includes priority moves like Fake Out, Ice Shard, etc., and Pursuit as well. This has very cool competitive implications, seeing as a Pokemon also cannot be damaged by entry hazards -- you can keep an important Pokemon alive no matter what if you want, until it's the last Pokemon!
    10. Shadow Tag does not prevent a Pokemon from rotating about, only from withdrawing into a Pokeball. (Tested this with The_Chaser, not Setsuna)
    Phewf, that was a lot of tests. Like I mentioned earlier, I REALLY like Rotation battles. I'd love to see this become an official Smogon metagame, and I will continue to do tests on it to discover everything about it!
  20. Banter

    Banter

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    I posted this on Gamefaqs already, but nobody really seemed to give a crap.

    It seems they've changed the wording of No Guard's effect.


    "No Guard: The accuracy of all moves known by all Pokémon on the field raises to 100% "

    Can anybody test to see if this means what it says? Before, it only affected Machamp and the Pokemon attacking or being attacked by Machamp.

    So, is it now viable to pair a No Guard Pokemon with a Pokemon with moves like Zap Cannon or its Fire-Type counterpart, or 120BP 70acc moves?

    Or does it still work the same, where it only affects the Pokemon with No Guard, and the Pokemon being attacked or attacking the afformentioned Pokemon?

    Can't wait for the next VGC Tournaments if this is true, every team will be Choice Scarf Sheer Cold No Guard abuse.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  21. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    OK, I've got a question about another obscure move: Postpone.

    It's a Dark-type move that only Murkrow and Honchkrow learn via leveling up, but a few others learn via TM.

    What does this move actually do? I'd like someone to test this in a double battle where the Postpone user is the slowest Pokémon. The other three Pokémon should be using moves with 0 (unmodified) priority. I want you to target the second-fastest Pokémon on the field with Postpone and tell me in which order the Pokémon move and what Postpone does.

    Make sure that the Postpone user is NOT a Murkrow with the Mischievous Heart ability. I don't want that clouding the results.

    If you got this from Serebii, it's been wrong for years.
  22. timetwister

    timetwister

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,146
    I have successfully tested and used Giratina-O, Shaymin-S, and Rotom-A on Wi-Fi on my White cartridge. Since I'm using a cart, I don't have screenshots, but FriDanny, Huy, and Ditto were the people who saw me use them and can verify if needed.

    For further verification, Jibaku has told me he used a Giratina-O during today's Black/White tournament.

    It's about time! :P
  23. coyotte508

    coyotte508
    is a Programmer Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    157
    About pickup, I just want to make one fact clear.

    The pokemon that had the berry and pickup was able to eat it because its partner picked up the berry and ate it.

    If a pokemon can actually pick up one berry without eating it, I guess other pokemon wouldn't be able to pick up the berry, so further testing is needed.

    Sorry for the misleading info and unclear post.
  24. mien

    mien
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    713
    For this test i used a Jirachi and a Golduck with both 236 Spatt against a Blissey and a Torterra with 406 SpD and 226 SpD respectivly.

    STAB test
    Jirachi's Future Sight against Blissey: 67-65 damage
    Golduck's Future Sight against Blissey: 40-44 damage

    Target used test
    Jirachi's Doom Desire against Blissey: 94-99 damage
    Targeted Blissey with Doom Desire on Jirachi and switched it out to Torterra in turn 2, Torterra got: 183-186 damage
    Jirachi's Doom Desire against (both initial as final target)Torterra: 175-184 damage

    Future Sight failed when Doom Desire was still in effect and vice versa

    To sum it up
    Doom Desire\Future Sight: In addition to not being typeless, do they get STAB? Yes
    Is the damage calculated using the SpDef of targetted Pokemon at the time it was used, or the SpDef of the Pokemon hit? The SpD of the pokemon hit
    Can there be both Doom Desire and Future Sight active at the same time now? No they can't
  25. ShravanP

    ShravanP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    243
    Very nice tests, Mien! I have only one question. Since you tested Doom Desire only with Jirachi, can you maybe try it using a Jirachi and a Smeargle with equal SpA to test the STAB? Or are you concluding the presence of STAB based on the damage dealt alone?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)