1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. yaya0

    yaya0

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    253
    Remember Lance in R/G/B? For some reason, nobody complained.
  2. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    903

    Are you completely sure about that? No offence, but I distinctly remember seeing a video where it happened mid-turn. Unfortunately I can no longer find it (it was probably deleted), but it went more or less like this:

    There was a Baibanira on the right side, and it used Icy Wind to kill 2 opposing Pokémon, leaving a Gigaiasu on the left. Immediately after, the "Reset Move" banner appeared, and Gigaiasu killed Baibanira with a Stone Edge or something like that.

    I could be misremembering, though. Sorry for any and all inconveniences.
  3. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,157
    The_Chaser and I just finished testing Dragon Tail.

    Testing process:

    The_Chaser: Pokemon A: LO Garchomp | Pokemon B: non-LO Garchomp (both Garchomp with Dragon Tail).
    Setsuna: Pokemon A: Nattorei | Pokemon B: Rugged Helmet Nattorei (Nattorei's ability: Steel Thorns)

    We can conclude the following:

    1. Dragon Tail does not fail to switch out the target if the user faints from Life Orb recoil. Garchomp was able to execute Dragon Tail's ability even though Life Orb killed it off right after.
    2. Pokemon with the ability Steel Thorns prevent Dragon Tail from switching out the target, but only when the user of this move is below 12.5% of its health and hence dies afterwards due to Steel Thorns damage. Nattorei remained in the field after Dragon Tail attacked, and Garchomp died because of the damage inflicted by the opponent's ability.
    3. Confirmed that Dragon Tail fails if the user faints from Rugged Helmet / Steel Thorns. ((Tested this one with Philip7086, not The_Chaser))
    4. If a Pokemon has Steel Thorns as the ability, and it's carrying the Rugged Helmet, the order in which the attacking Pokemon will receive damage from these is the following: Ability > Item.
  4. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,303
    Wait, does it mean Nattorei is immune to Dragon Tail's phazing effect?

    And on the LO scenario, who switches in first, the opponent's or the Garchomp user's pokémon?
  5. black_cotton

    black_cotton

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    460
    Then nattorei is immune to dragon tail phazing, does it apply to ability "rough skin" as well?
  6. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Just finished testing.
    Mummy has been confirmed to remove Slow Start

  7. R_N

    R_N
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,515
    But does it remove the side effects? Or will Regigigas still have halved attack & speed?
  8. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,025
    Just tested this with my Emboar using Will-o-Wisp and no activation message happened and it was still holding the Gem afterwards. So the Gems are not used up.
  9. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    828
    Does Wicked Thief work only when your opponent attacks you or when you make contact in any way?
  10. Sol64

    Sol64

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    271
    Minor test: Thief no longer steals NPC trainer's pokemon's item permanently, which is a bit disappointing.

    Interesting.
  11. Jiggy

    Jiggy

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    275
    I still had this sort of thing happen to me on occasion without Flame Body and now I'm pretty sure I know what's going on.

    [Edit: Never mind, no I didn't--the egg cycles had always been tracked independently from any given egg. So here's a different explanation...]

    Considering that the eggs that hatched much earlier than I expect consistently fell within one step of each other, I thought maybe the egg hatching cycle was now tracked independently from any given egg. If that was true, then two eggs could be received at different times in the same cycle and still hatch at the "same time" (one step after the other since two eggs can't actually hatch at the same time)... but likewise eggs should always hatch apart from each other in multiples of a full cycle. I started checking and it looks like eggs hatch in multiples of 257 steps after each other (when they're not in the same cycle) since I'm consistently getting them to hatch at the 257, 514, or 771 mark after the previous hatch.

    [Edit: What I now think is going on with eggs hatching at the same time is that the egg cycle 1) doesn't reset when an egg is picked up and 2) doesn't reset or stop counting for further eggs when one egg is hatched.]



    So basically two minor discoveries: the counter that determines when to hatch eggs goes up separately from eggs themselves isn't delayed by egg pickups and egg hatching, and it's now 257 steps instead of 255 or 256.
  12. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,354
    Alright, SDS asked me to find the hardest Pokemon in the game (Shuckle) and proceed to do a Berry Juice test. My Hihidaruma has like 178 HP, if that helps (though I doubt it). I got a Wild Tropius to knock it down under half health (though it took forever) and Berry Juice activated. It restored Hihidaruma's Hit Points by 20 HP.

    In other words: Berry Juice works just like it did in the old games. Sorry Little Cup fans.
  13. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,082
    Big testing day for me and Setsuna. Here were the things we tested, and the results:

    We tested this using a fast Side Change Gallade versus a slow Pursuit Tyranitar. Gallade used Side Change to switch places with Smeargle, and then Tyranitar hit Smeargle with an unboosted Pursuit.

    While we were testing Side Change, we discovered a few things. First of all, if it wasn't known before, this move is for Doubles and Triples battles only -- the move will fail in Singles and Rotation battles. Also, within Triples battles, the Side Change user MUST be on either the right or left side of the field. Side Change will fail if the user is in the middle position of your party. Finally, because Side Change can only be used to interchange specific positions only, you never get the option of who you want to switch with -- the game chooses for you, and always chooses the same position (the opposite side from where you currently are).

    Setsuna and I re-tested this for confirmation's sake. To test this, we used a Dragon Tail Bagon versus a Doryuuzu holding a Rugged Helmet. When Bagon took enough Rugged Helmet damage to faint from using Dragon Tail, the move failed to phaze Doryuuzu.

    Again, another new discovery while testing this! Apparently, if the Pokemon holding Rugged Helmet uses a contact move, it receives recoil damage. This makes the item a good deal less attractive... - Apparently this is not true. I'm assuming Setsuna's Pidgeot was holding Rugged Helmet itself when I attacked it with my Rugged Helmet Doryuuzu.

    To test this, we used a Sacred Sword Terakion versus a Reflect Smeargle. Sacred Sword failed to bypass Reflect, and only did half damage. We later also tested Sacred Sword Terakion against an Iron Defense Smeargle, and Sacred Sword successfully bypassed Smeargle's defense buffs, doing normal damage (in other words, doing damage as if Smeargle was at +0 defense).

    We had to hack to test this, obviously. Shedinja's Wish only healed the incoming Pokemon 1 HP.

    Finally, I just wanted to point out that Setsuna and I tested this before it went on the untested list here. Pressure now only depletes 2 PP at the turn the move is selected, and no PP while the move continues on.

    -----

    To summarize, here were our discoveries:

    • A user of Side Change cannot be caught by Pursuit.
    • Side Change will only work in Doubles battles and Triples battles, provided that the user is not in the middle position in a Triples battle. In a Triples Battle, the user of Side Change will always switch with the Pokemon on the opposite side of its party.
    • Dragon Tail will do damage to, but not phaze the opponent if the opponent is holding Rugged Helmet and the Dragon Tail user dies to its recoil damage.
    • Sacred Sword does not bypass Reflect, but it does bypass defensive stat boosts provided by moves like Iron Defense.
    • If Shedinja uses Wish, the recipient will only be healed 1 HP.
    • Pressure will only deplete 2 PP on the turn a multi-turn move is selected, and 0 PP for every turn the move continues on without the act of selecting it.
  14. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,303
    I went to the Victory Road with my Dragon Claw / Brick Break / Dig / Dragon Dance Ononokusu and not a single time has her Rugged Helmet been activated by her own moves.

    ...Unless, of course, Mold Breaker prevents Rugged damage. So I gave it to my Acrobat Emonga and... no Rugged damage. The wild Aianto, on the other hand, activated both the Helmet and lol Static with its Iron Head, so I caught it and gave it the Helmet. Even then, my own moves did not activate it.
  15. Squid Ninja

    Squid Ninja

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    268
    I had my Pendoraa hold it for a while in my playthrough and I can confirm that it does not hurt the holder.

    Maybe you were using a recoil move without noticing it?
  16. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,082
    Hmm, that really is peculiar. I was using Metal Claw. I assumed it was from when I was using a recoil move, because when I used Rock Slide and Earthquake, I didn't take recoil damage, but when I used Metal Claw I did. I really have no idea how that happened. I'll try to recreate the scenario and figure it out. Maybe one of Setsuna's Pokemon had Rugged Helmet, but he didn't mention that to me even after we discussed the fact that it seemed Rugged Helmet damaged the user... I'll ask him when I see him on.
  17. Sol64

    Sol64

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    271
    I've been using rugged helmet on my Desukan for a while now and the only time it's been activated is if the opponent uses a move that requires physical contact + (grass knot).
    The damage given to the opponent seemed to be set damage based on the holder's HP from what I've gathered. Though I need to try this out on a poke like blissey. I dunno where u guys got the "The item damages the user" bit from because I also used the item on my leaf blade Jaroda and received no damage from my own item.

    Maybe you guys need to test this item on a shuckle and a blissey and see if you can discover something. I have a hunch that the extra damage given is based on the holder's HP.
  18. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,082
    Yeah, I'm just going to assume for now that Setsuna's Pidgeot was also holding Rugged Helmet when I attacked it. I'll verify with him tomorrow when I see him. I already edited it out of my results post.
  19. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,143
    He's telling the truth. The same thing happened to me too.
  20. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's highly unlikely that it's possible to actually do this in the game.
  21. Ryanide

    Ryanide

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Can someone please test Fling with the new items? I want to know what happens when you fling things such as gemstones, rugged helmet, etc.
  22. Badal

    Badal Shit
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,910
    I can confirm that if 2 pokemon, of the same level are in the party, one which is holding the EXP share and one which is not, then they share the same EXP

    Pokabu final evo (level 36) BATTLER:616
    Doryuuzu(level 36) EXP SHARE HOLDER:616

    vs
    Gantle (level 33) OPPONENT

    This happened on all occasions before the Pokémon levelled up. I didn't record their numbers though.
  23. Sol64

    Sol64

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    271
    Not yet, I/we don't know how much it powers up moves by (%)

    Minor add: Free fall usefulness is much better in Double's & Triples. Can be used to immobilize an enemy for a turn while doing some sort of damage afterwards. However it doesn't seem to work against other flying types =/
  24. SupremeDirt

    SupremeDirt

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    611
    Already known.
  25. Purimpopoie

    Purimpopoie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    I'm especially curious about Flinging the Dark Gemstone.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)