1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

1. ### CPU

Joined:
Feb 21, 2007
Messages:
475
I've begun testing the new Experience Formula (Formulas?) using a Level 1 Dageki, with the moves Brick Break, Toxic, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. Basically I abuse Sturdy, Toxic, and Potions to beat the weaker ones.

Here's what I've got thus far:

Minezumi (Base Experience: 51)
2- 25
3- 42
4- 64
5- 90
6- 117
7- 146

Yooterii (Base Experience: 55)
4- 70
5- 97
6- 126
7- 159

Choroneko (Base Experience: 56)
4- 70
5- 98

Also, according to Bulbapedia, this is the new formula:

a= 1.5 trainer multiplier, 1 otherwise
t= 1.5 domestic trainer multiplier, 1.7 international trainer multiplier, 1 otherwise
b= base experience yield
e= 1.5 Lucky Egg Multiplier, 1 otherwise
L= level of the fainted Pokémon (L subscript p is the Level of the Victorious Pokémon)
s= number of participating Pokémon in the battle, not fainted.

Unfortunately, they seem to be incorrect, just by going by my first bit of data:
Level 1 Dageki beating a Level 2 Minezumi:

(((1 x 1 x 51 x 1 x 2)/(5 x 1)) x ((2+2)/(1+2))) + 1, according to them, should yield 28 Experience; I only got 25.

This should be fun.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Bulbapedia has conflicting information on some of the Base Experience; it states that Blissey's is now 608, rather than 255, in Generation V. I'm certain that some of these values have changed from the 4th to 5th Generations, and I know that it can now be over 255 (see the Legendaries and Tabunne for examples). I'm trying to corroborate my information on Veekun, but I'm not sure if he's updated all of the new stuff for Generation V yet, since most people will still be playing Generation IV for a few more months.

Basically, can I get an independent, game-ripped listing of the Base Experience values, if at all possible?

Joined:
Sep 18, 2010
Messages:
79
3. ### CPU

Joined:
Feb 21, 2007
Messages:
475
Excellent, so the data does have a good source. Thanks much.
4. ### MeroMero

Joined:
Sep 18, 2010
Messages:
79
I'm trying as well to find the 2 formulas (yes 2 formulas, one for level 1 to level 83, the other one for level 84 to level 100), and this is what I've tested so far using a hacked Sturdy Shedinja with Endeavor and Quick-Attack against wild Blissey (due to her having the highest base experience, capping at 608).
5. ### CPU

Joined:
Feb 21, 2007
Messages:
475
Alright, I'll try to work on small distinctions. The Pokémon that I've tested this far are all from the base 51 to 60 experience groups.

51- Minezumi
52- Wynaut (requires swarm); Fushide (immune to Poison)
53- Mamepato
54- Wingull (noticeably higher leveled, but a greater range)
55- Yooterii
56- Choroneko
57- Riolu (Paras, via swarm, if I had White)
58- Munna
59- Shimama
60- Poliwag

If there's anything reasonable that you'd like me to test, then just tell me; I'm glad to help, and since you've got a head start on me, you can dictate. If not, I'll just do the slow process.
6. ### MeroMero

Joined:
Sep 18, 2010
Messages:
79
Well, you can test whatever pokémon / base experience / level you want to test, it's fine. The more data we have, the faster we can find those formulas though we can take all the time we want to collect data.
7. ### Zebstrika

Joined:
Oct 3, 2010
Messages:
1,054
Take the totals, and 4 hits had occurred 24/200=12% of the time, which is pretty much normal, but 5 hits occurred 44/200=22% of the time.

Does Dust-proof guard against the damage caused by Fire+Grass Oaths? Supposedly it is a field of fire or wildfire or whatever. Also, what happens when three oaths are used at once (all different or some the same), or when two of the same are used?
8. ### breh強いだね

Joined:
Feb 6, 2010
Messages:
3,283
Dustproof guards against Hail and Sandstorm damage; it doesn't seem like it would be reasonable to guard against the oaths.

On a related note, can the Grass/Fire oath be guarded against by herbivore/flash fire? thanks

EDIT: If one of the oaths is blocked by Herbivore, Flash Fire, or Water Absorb/Storm Drain, does the effect still occur?
9. ### Zebstrika

Joined:
Oct 3, 2010
Messages:
1,054
I doubt it, because it deals typeless damage. After all, it normally deals 1/8 of a pokemon's HP each turn, and for example, a Staraptor (normal/flying) would not take only 1/16 or 3/32 of its HP just because the damage comes from a grass type move.
10. ### MB Espeon

Joined:
May 10, 2007
Messages:
350
Well in that case, can the Grass/Fire oath be guarded against by magic guard users? I'd think it would, but hypothesizing isn't testing.
11. ### mien

Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
Messages:
741
When i collected all data i came to a total of 194, as such to fix this mistake i did it six more times, which gave 4 double hits, 1 triples and 1 quintuple. If i combine all these results we get the fellowing data.

2 Hits: 69 times or 34.5%
3 Hits: 62 times or 31%
4 Hits: 24 times or 12%
5 Hits: 45 times or 22.5%

If one would make a mathematical formula out of this it would be 3/9 or 1/3 for both double and triple hits, 1/9 for quadruple and 2/9 for quintuples.
Is this correct or is just some extreme deviation of the actual rate? It doesn't make sense that game freak would make 5 Hits in a row occur twice as much as 4 hits would(though who am i to judge?)

Perhaps i shouldn't be so lazy and be drawing conclusions from 200 results. As such i'm going to to do the test once more and see if i get a similar rate.

Joined:
Nov 24, 2009
Messages:
1,910
Oh man that list of EXP is good. I was trying to compile it, only got so far.

That should clear stuff up
13. ### FocusUbers Tester Extraordinaire

Joined:
May 27, 2010
Messages:
698
Has anyone found out by how much the base power of Get Even is increased if its special requirements are met (presumably if a teammate was KOed the turn before this move is used)?
14. ### mien

Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
Messages:
741
Tested multi-hit moves again 100 times, Wide Lens Yabukuron(same from last test) using Rock Blast 100 times on Steelix

2 Hits: 31 times or 31%
3 Hits: 30 times or 30%
4 Hits: 25 times or 25%(!)
5 Hits: 14 times or 14%

If i combine these results with the results of the former tests we get:

2 Hits: 100 times or 33.33%
3 Hits: 92 times or 30.33%
4 Hits: 49 times or 16.33%
5 Hits: 59 times or 19.66%

Still no real consistency, to be continued.
15. ### DDRMaster

Joined:
Jun 26, 2008
Messages:
2,689
Well from your data, it still looks like 2 and 3 hits has twice the rate of 4 and 5 hits, which is the same as it's always been. If Gamefreak did change the rates, they didn't change them very significantly.
16. ### mien

Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
Messages:
741
No, in the past 2 and 3 hits had triple the rate of 4 and 5 hits.
17. ### DDRMaster

Joined:
Jun 26, 2008
Messages:
2,689
Yeah I thought it was always double for some reason. I guess they could have changed it to only double after all.
18. ### mien

Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
Messages:
741
Tested multi-hit moves again 100 times, Wide Lens Yabukuron(same from last test) using Rock Blast 100 times on Steelix

2 Hits: 35 times or 35%
3 Hits: 33 times or 34%
4 Hits: 20 times or 20%
5 Hits: 12 times or 12%

If i combine these results with the results of the former tests we get(after 400 tests!)

2 Hits: 135 times or 33.75%
3 Hits: 125 times or 31.25%
4 Hits: 69 times or 17.25%
5 Hits: 71 times or 17.75%

The results seem to prove what DDRMaster said, the rate has changed from triple to double(albeit about 1% difference in the test). In other words the chance for landing 2 or 3 Hits is now 2/6 and for 4 and 5 hits it has become 1/6.

I don't think doing another test will indicate a different result. As such i think this can now be listed as confirmed.
19. ### morteriser

Joined:
Jun 5, 2010
Messages:
2
If a pokemon that is ground type and has lightningrod, is holding the item Bull's Eye then would the pokemon be able to get boosts while still being immune from electric attacks? (I know that bull's eye does not get rid of ability immunities, but I want to know if this is possible in general)
20. ### mien

Joined:
Jul 13, 2008
Messages:
741
No, it didn't drop extra PP when i targeted the Pressure pokemon's teammate.

Yes, Steel wing did 30% more damage then normal but never raised defense.

I also tested if Choice Band was affected by Encourage, but the boost was still 1.5x and the holder was locked into a move as well.

Joined:
Oct 8, 2006
Messages:
627
Yes.
22. ### UltiMario

Joined:
Aug 11, 2009
Messages:
1,265
Doesn't Choice Band boost the user's actual attack that by x1.5, and Encourage boost the move's Base Power by x1.3?

How would that make just a x1.5 boost, and to what?
23. ### Guyperson

Joined:
Sep 25, 2010
Messages:
5
I think he meant that encourage isn't activated by a normal move under a choice item. Or that encourage doesn't stop the choice item from locking you in a move.
24. ### Zebstrika

Joined:
Oct 3, 2010
Messages:
1,054
Life Orb has recoil on moves that aren't boosted by encourage, so hopefully both moves that are boosted and those that aren't have been tested.
25. ### LightningLord2

Joined:
Oct 25, 2009
Messages:
543
A Minor Question: How much is Cross Flame/Cross Thunder boosted by the other attack? And what specific requirement is needed for them to get the boost?