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B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    It looks like Misceivous Heart gives non-attacking moves +1 priority. I'm thinking it's only +1 because someone claims that it doesn't give +1 priority so I think they were facing something slightly faster that used Quick Attack. If that's the case, Protect, Fake Out, Follow Me, etc. would still go before it.

    There's a chance it gives non attacking moves 1 higher priority, so things like Protect would have +4 priority and Trick Room would have -5. Someone should test to see if and Erufuun using Trick Room goes before a Deoxys using Trick Room.
  2. Wichu

    Wichu ACUPRESSURE
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    It doesn't give it +1 priority, it just makes it go first. Just like Quick Claw and Custap Berry. If you use, say, QC Infernape's Flamethrower, Scizor's Bullet Punch will still hit you first.
  3. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    But Erufun used Cotton Spore before Shimama's Quick Attack. If it worked like you say it does, Erufun would have gotten hit by Quick Attack before using Cotton Spore.
  4. EvilMario

    EvilMario

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    We need to investigate the item; (Pre)Evolution Stone.

    According to Serebii: A piece of Evolutions wonder. If held, a pre-evolved Pokemon's Defence and Special Defence increase.

    There are keys like, what is considered a pre-evolution? Is Porygon2 a pre-evolution, even though it has another pre-evo before it? How great is the boost (we've been guessing 50%)?
  5. Wichu

    Wichu ACUPRESSURE
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    Whoops, I missed that. Disregard my previous post.
  6. Ferrouswheel

    Ferrouswheel

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    Although not a priority, it would be nice to know if misceivious heart is faster or slower then a pokemon who was sped up by a custap berry.
  7. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    Well, it could be a tie. It's possible that Quick Claw and/or Custap Berry also now give actual priority.
  8. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    I should have worded that better. What I meant was: if they were to boost over 100 EVs each, would they work on Level 100 Pokémon? That is, would they boost over 100 EVs on Level 100 Pokémon.


    Assuming they work like that, of course. Serebii's description says "An item used by Pokémon.", which could mean that they are actually battle items. But that's another story, right?
  9. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    I'd like a bit of clarification here. Does Contrarian reverse stat changes as they happen, or does it reverse the effect of existing stat changes? So if Jaroda uses Leaf Storm and then gets hit with Skill Swap or Gastro Acid or whatnot, is its SpAtk still doubled, or is it halved?
  10. SupremeDirt

    SupremeDirt

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    It's as they happen, Jaroda still has the +2.
  11. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Illusion: This might have already been tested, but we need to find out if Zoroark's Illusion fades when it switches in and takes damage from entry hazards. I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that it fades when it takes damage from an attacking move, but damage from entry hazards hasn't as far as I know.
  12. Super

    Super This space for rent
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    I'm curious on a couple of things.

    First of all, does the Custap berry glitch still exist? Meaning, if the Custap Berry gets removed once its holder gets below 25% but the turn hasn't ended yet (either through trick or that new Incinerate I guess), does Custap still activate the following turn and consume whatever new item the pokemon is holding. Even if that item happens to be "None"?

    Does Custap bypass priority now? It matters for the next question.

    In Gen IV, if a Custap/Protect owner goes last under conditions where it normally would activate, it won't activate. Does this still apply? If Snatch/Magic Coat still have a higher priority than Protect, that's a good way to test it. This matters for the next question.

    And finally, do fainted pokemon still get turn slots and do these turn slots go last? Meaning, for example, if a Pokemon is fainted at the start of the turn in a double battle (because there's no new pokemon to bring in), Protect/Custap will still activate even if they go last (assuming the previous question's answer is yes).
  13. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Something else I'd like to test but can't tonight:

    Illusion: Do you see your opponent's Zoroark in the party list pre-match as Zoroark or another Pokémon?
  14. Galactic Tomahawk

    Galactic Tomahawk

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    I don't know about Entry Hazards, but one of my friends is using Zoroark on his in-game team and Illusion reportedly does not break in Sandstorm. So at the very least, there's some types of damage which don't stop it.
  15. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    No it doesn't.


    Question:

    How exactly does Cross Fire and Cross Thunder interact with each other?

    Serebii claims that each one will empower only the other, but as always is rather vague.

    On the other hand, Bulbapedia claims that the moves are used automatically after each other (which, if I understand this correctly, would lock Reshiram and Zekrom in a Rage-like situation), but not only that. It also claims that they empower all moves.


    So who's right? Or are they both half-right?

    In other words: Are they able to switch moves after being hit? If so, are all other moves empowered? Regardless, is the boost a one-time-only thing (like Charge), or is it permanent?

    An easy way to test this would be
    Spoilers (open)
    against N right after the Elite 4
  16. howabe

    howabe

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    Following on from this... if Zoroark is disguised as something immune to weather (say Meguroko in Sandstorm), would it still take the weather damage, effectively revealing it for what it is?
  17. coyotte508

    coyotte508
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    As far as I know, it always had 1 base power, but I may be wrong.

    It does boost Flare Blitz, but the recoil is still there. (It only boosts Flare Blitz because of the secondary burn effect, and probably removes it). Tested using two pokemons with the same attack stat, one with Encourage, the other without.
  18. skarm

    skarm I HAVE HOTEL ROOMS
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    Hi coyotte - is there anything you'd like from a simulator programmer's perspective to be tested sooner rather than later if you're looking to make a BW update to Pokemon Online?
  19. ShravanP

    ShravanP

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    Can you post any calculations on exactly how much more damage encourage caused?
  20. CPU

    CPU

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    Just a post by Eevee about move changes that he's found in the data:

    Code:
       1.
          - Bind: accuracy 75% -> 85%
       2.
          - Jump Kick: power 85 -> 100; PP 25 -> 10
       3.
          - Tackle: power 35 -> 50; accuracy 95% -> 100%
       4.
          - Wrap: accuracy 85% -> 90%
       5.
          - Thrash: power 90 -> 120; PP 20 -> 10
       6.
          - Disable: accuracy 90% -> 100%
       7.
          - Growth raises both attack stats
       8.
          - Petal Dance: power 90 -> 120; PP 20 -> 10
       9.
          - Fire Spin: power 15 -> 35; accuracy 70% -> 85%
      10.
          - Toxic: accuracy 85% -> 90%
      11.
          - Meditate: PP 20 -> 40
      12.
          - Clamp: accuracy 75% -> 85%
      13.
          - Hi Jump Kick: power 100 -> 130; PP 20 -> 10
      14.
          - Glare: accuracy 75% -> 90%
      15.
          - Poison Gas: accuracy 55% -> 90%
      16.
          - Crabhammer: accuracy 85% -> 90%
      17.
          - Mind Reader: PP 40 -> 5
      18.
          - Cotton Spore: accuracy 85% -> 100%
      19.
          - Scary Face: accuracy 90% -> 100%
      20.
          - Bone Rush: accuracy 80% -> 90%
      21.
          - Outrage: PP 15 -> 10
      22.
          - Giga Drain: power 60 -> 75
      23.
          - Fury Cutter: power 10 -> 20
      24.
          - Future Sight: power 80 -> 100; PP 15 -> 10; accuracy 90% -> 100%
      25.
          - Whirlpool: power 15 -> 35; accuracy 70% -> 85%
      26.
          - Beat Up: power 10 -> 1 (i.e., special; maybe effect changed?)
      27.
          - Uproar: power 50 -> 90 (!!!!!)
      28.
          - Sand Tomb: power 15 -> 35; accuracy 70% -> 85%
      29.
          - Bullet Seed: power 10 -> 25
      30.
          - Icicle Spear: power 10 -> 25
      31.
          - Covet: power 40 -> 60
      32.
          - Rock Blast: accuracy 80% -> 90%
      33.
          - Doom Desire: power 120 -> 140; accuracy 85% -> 100%
      34.
          - Me First: power 0 -> 1 (only of interest to nerds)
      35.
          - Punishment: power 60 -> 1 (??)
      36.
          - Last Resort: power 130 -> 140
      37.
          - Drain Punch: power 60 -> 75; PP 5 -> 10
      38.
          - Magma Storm: accuracy 70% -> 75%
      39.
           
      40.
          also, every move that never misses is now marked 101% accuracy
      41.
                  some effect chances MAY have changed, as "effect chance" is now split into parts and is harder to compare
      42.
           
      43.
          - Wrap, Whirlpool, etc. now last 5–6 turns instead of 2–5
      44.
          - Sturdy now acts like Focus Sash rather than protecting only against OHKO moves
      45.
           
      46.
           
      47.
          Snatch will now work on: Conversion, Wish, Recycle, Imprison, Healing Wish, Power Trick, Lucky Chant, Aqua Ring, Magnet Rise, and Lunar Dance
      48.
          But not Psych Up and Acupressure
      49.
           
      50.
          Magic Coat will now work on: Whirlwind, Roar, Disable, Spite, Spikes, Foresight, Encore, Torment, Taunt, Odor Sleuth, Miracle Eye, Embargo, Heal Block, Toxic Spikes, Defog, and Stealth Rock
      51.
           
      52.
          Protect will now work on: Counter, Mirror Coat, and Metal Burst (also only of interest to nerds)
      53.
          But not on Hail
      54.
           
      55.
          Hail now multiplies the power of Ice-type moves by 1.5 and boosts Ice  type Pokemon's Defense by 1.5., like Sandstorm does for the Special Defense of Rock-types.[False, until proven otherwis
    
    Punishment's and Beat Up's changes are the most interesting, IMO.
  21. yrutalkin2me27

    yrutalkin2me27

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    Does Perversity reverse the stat changes from burn and paralysis as well?
    (ex: Burn equals attack boost/paralysis equals speed boost)
  22. Niched

    Niched

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    Confirmed Mechanics

    Okay, so me and Death Incarnate tested a few things.

    These are confirmed:

    Iron barbs activates on every hit of a multi hit physical contact move. Unsure about Rough Helmet.

    Rotation Battles


    Abilities that activate on switch in rotation battles only activate at the beginning of the battle for the lead pokemon on your team. For example, if something with Intimidate is in the back row, Intimidate will not activate.

    Uncertain if weather effects can begin in the back row.

    Rotating a pokemon in does not cause, for example, Intimidate to activate.

    Stat boosts and drops remain in effect when rotated out.

    Status remains, but will not effect pokemon in the back row (e.g. burn stops damaging them, Leech Seed does not take effect) but remain.

    Multi target moves hit only the lead pokemon.

    You may only switch out your lead pokemon. You may not switch if you have 3 or less pokemon.

    When a pokemon faints, if you still have 4 or 5 more pokemon, you choose which one too switch in. You may not rotate in. If you have 3 pokemon left, the game switches in your remaining pokemon, no rotation. If you have two, it rotates clockwise (unconfirmed, only a couple testings that all went clockwise) and sends in the that pokemon.

    You may not rotate and then switch. You may not rotate and use an item. You can only rotate if you use an attack. You may not use an attack and then rotate.

    Rotation occurs in speed order.

    Turn Order: (item location unconfirmed)
    Switching
    items?
    Rotation
    Attacks

    Switch moves (U-Turn, Batton Pass, etc.) only switch if you have more than 3 pokemon (i.e. one in reserve). You may not switch to a pokemon currently on the rotation platform.

    You may use items on any pokemon. A stat boosting item used on a pokemon in the back row raises its stats. Unknown if you can use a stat boosting item on a pokemon not on the platform.

    Miracle shooter items Include a 2 cost potion clone, and X Stat 1 through 6, which includes the five stats plus a believed Accuracy and Critical Hit Rate. 1 level boost costs 3 points, 6 costs about 12.

    Will continue to update on Rotation battle mechanics.
  23. coyotte508

    coyotte508
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    Hey.

    Ok, first, i'll post some other research done by PO users in order to have centralized info (were not tested by me, credits would go to Crystal and SlipperJeans)

    @ShravanP: I don't know how much the Encourage boost is exactly, nor do I still have the numbers.

    About Illusion (Crystal & Slipperjeans)
    Illusion takes the appearance of the last pokemon on the party, before the pokemon is switched in. (Name/Gender/Sprite). If Zoroark was last in the party before being switched in, illusion doesn't activate. Important note: When you switch pokemon in battle, they take each other's places. For example, if scizor is #1 and suicune is #6 and they switch, suicune will become #1 and scizor will become #6. And Zoroark's ability will then imitate Scizor instead of Suicune. That means simulators will need to implement that.

    Illusion disappears when hit by a move (shadow ball for example), not by status / SR damage / weather. Confusion damage / Future Sight aren't tested.

    Data about Illusion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb1PWKLMK9U.
    Edit: Slipperjean's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6YHrJZyfM

    There was another video that had more detail about the pokemon that was in the last slot of the party changing, but I don't have the link here.

    About Mischievous Heart:

    Edit: Seems all below is wrong data about mischievous heart: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3009354&postcount=151, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3009462&postcount=155
    Show Hide
    There is a list of moves ripped from the ROM on Veekun: http://stuff.veekun.com/bw-moves.html

    One of the people on Veekun made a clever remark on how one of the flags could be the "Mischievous Heart" flag.

    If that flag is the real one, here are the moves affected:

    So those would be the first to test. It's still strange to see Roar/Whirlwind with a +1 priority... Maybe it's not priority, but just "first in the priority tier", like Custap Berry?


    Defog : (Slipperjeans)

    It doesn't clear both sides, false rumor. The fact that it still had a single target was already suspect, but now it's been tested

    Sturdy: (Oneballjay)

    When hit by a multi hit moves that OHKOs, it isn't even triggered if the first hit doesn't do 100% damage. Even then, the second hit kills the pokemon. Also, works as long as the user has 100% health prior to the hit, even if it was activated before. (Shedinja with Sturdy would be...)

    Needs to be tested with focus sash to see what is triggered before, Sturdy or Focus Sash? Sturdy would make more sense.

    Competitive Spirit:

    Doesn't work on own stat decreases (Close Combat, Superpower). Triggers on Intimidate and other stat reducing moves (Leer, Tail whip, ...). Probably needs to be double checked though. Doesn't negate intimidate, but still activates on it.

    Multi-Turn moves:

    I don't know if this is the right category to say that wrap/other trapping moves seem to last 4-5 turns, and sleep 1-3 turns. Not tested at all, but the raw data from the ROM seems to say that.

    Harvest: (mien)

    Restores the berry at the end of the turn. If the berry is in a condition to be activated again, then it is, but obviously won't be restored again the same turn. So you can get double boost with salac, remove a weakness, ...

    Also much is still unclear, as knowing exactly when at the end of the turns it triggers (after which end turn effects), and under which condition a berry is restored (does the pokemon have to have the harvest ability when the berry was destroyed, does it restore berries stolen by pluck / bug bite or destroyed by Complete Burn/Incinerate, ...).

    Poison/Heat Rampage: (Slipperjeans)

    Raises attack/Sp Attack only by 50%, like Guts. Don't have the numbers posted, so you'll probably want to test it again, but the damage ranges matched, and it was tested against a blissey to have more accurate data.

    Multiscale: (Slipperjeans)

    Reduces damage by half if the pokemon was at full health before the hit. A lv 100 dragonite at 99% (having lost only one HP) will still take full damage. Same, don't have the numbers, so you'll probably want to test it again, but it was a clean cut by 2.

    Telepathy: (Slipperjeans?)

    Prevents a damaging attack to hit an ally, like Motor Drive would block an electric attack, though Telepathy's message is displayed. This work for any damaging attack, even single target attacks like Psychic. Non damaging attacks still hit.


    For what changes would be tested rather sooner than later... Nothing in particular, for now, but thanks. I've still got a bit of work with the info already known, will let you know if need be.
  24. iruchii

    iruchii

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    The Mischievous Heart flag isn't the real one- I've tested it with moves such as Stun Spore and Leech Seed, both not listed.
  25. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I don't think those are all the moves that Miscievous Heart affects because someone tested it and showed that Cotton Spore went before Quick Attack. Having it not work on Trick Room makes sense, though, since Erufun still went second when it used it.

    Edit: Ninja'd.

    Edit2: Maybe Status and Stat raising/lowering moves have their own flags and Miscievous Heart just uses those as well.

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