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B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Doval

    Doval

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    Well, that explains everything. Seems you're right.

    Funny how neither Serebii, Smogon nor Bulbapedia mention that.

    EDIT: D'oh. It's mentioned in Bulbapedia's article on Roar but not on Whirlwind's. Apparently the mechanic is new to this generation. Supposedly still works against trainers even if their Pokemon are higher level though.
  2. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    Heh, good call. We should add that to our StrategyDex for completeness purposes, even if it doesn't apply to competitive matches (which it may or may not; I'm not sure).

    EDIT: My own testing:

    • Mirror Move now works completely differently than it used to. It now allows you to select a target. If the last move the target used was copyable by Mirror Move (regardless of who the move targeted), then the Mirror Move user will attempt to use the move on the target of Mirror Move. If the copied move isn't a move that allows you to select a target, it targets opponents within range or all Pokemon within range as normal. If the target's last move was not copyable by Mirror Move, Mirror Move fails.

    Even if the target of Mirror Move loses a turn due to flinching (and presumably confusion, paralysis, etc.), Mirror Move will attempt to copy the last move it successfully used. Again, if that move is not copyable by Mirror Move, Mirror Move fails.

    • I have discovered some important changes to Encore:

    1. It lasts fewer turns (this was known)
    2. An encored Pokémon can still Shift in Triple Battles. (also known)
    3. It now causes the target to only be able to select the move it last successfully used, no matter how many turns ago that was. In 4th gen, Encore would fail if the target's last turn was taken up by a flinch, full paralysis, etc.
    4. It now allows the target to choose a target each turn when using the encored move. In 4th gen, the move would target a randomly selected Pokémon from the available foes.

    • Magic Guard prevents collateral damage from Flame Burst. (No big surprise there)

    • Fake Out can be used successfully if user has spent every previous turn using the Shift function in a Triple Battle.
  3. Mikazukinoyaiba

    Mikazukinoyaiba

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    I have this technique where usually I put an egg into the PC immediately after receiving it, once I have made 5 eggs than I withdraw them all and go riding around to hatch them together.

    Back in the 4th generation, the way eggs worked was in intervals of 255 steps so even though all of the eggs were walked the exact same number of steps, the first egg in my party would hatch, then 255 steps later the next egg would.

    They changed that this time around I noticed, instead on the very next step after the first one the next egg hatches, and then the next on the step after.

    Anybody else notice this already?
  4. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    Previously, when one egg hatched, the game wouldn't increment the step counter for all the other eggs in your party (or maybe it just didn't hatch them if they hit zero, I don't remember exactly). Presumably that has changed now.
  5. Slightly

    Slightly

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    Back in HG/SS that happened. I remember getting the three eggs from the teachy tv guy (can't remember his name :/ ), and then having them hatch one step after the other.
  6. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Torment works in UK B/W as it used to in US DPPt.


    JP B/W:

    Turn 1
    The wild Sandile used Assurance!
    Servine used Tackle!

    Turn 2
    The wild Sandile used Torment!
    Servine can't use Tackle due to the Torment!


    UK B/W (and US DPPt):

    Turn 1
    The wild Sandile used Assurance!
    Servine used Tackle!

    Turn 2
    The wild Sandile used Torment!
    Servine used Tackle!

    *before Turn 3*
    "Servine can't choose Tackle due to the Torment!" or something along these lines
  7. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    OK, my research tentatively indicates that nothing short of KOing will prevent a Pokemon from using the Shift command. Sleeping, flinched, truant, and encored Pokemon can all Shift.

    However, the Pokemon's status effects appear not to tick down during the turn it initiates a shift. A round spent shifting, for instance, does not count as a round asleep for the purposes of waking up. If a Truant Pokemon shifts during the turn it would be loafing, it loafs next turn instead.

    On a related note, it appears tentatively that many temporary statuses now tick when the Pokemon takes its action, not at the end of the turn. Some effects still end at the end of the turn (Encore, Disable, etc.), but I think this is just a check to see if the ticker reached 0 before the end of the turn. I say this because Encore always causes the target to reuse its move three times regardless of whether Encore is used before or after the target moves in the turn.

    This mechanic may have been implemented due to rotation battles, where statuses don't tick unless the Pokemon is active during the turn.

    EDIT:
    I'm noticing a contradiction here.
  8. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    I could have sworn this was the case as well until howabe posted otherwise. Maybe it's time for a definitive retesting.

    It's not "always fail". It has a chance of failing that is proportional to the level difference. Or maybe that's only the case in trainer battles.
  9. TheMaskedNitpicker

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    Well, the best I can tell you is that in my NA copy of White, Torment prevents only move selection, not move execution, just like in 4th gen. I just tested it to confirm. What I'm wondering is if Mario With Lasers actually tested on a Japanese copy just now, or just on a UK copy?

    EDIT: Posting to confirm that Mirror Move can now copy Trick Room, even though it doesn't technically target any Pokemon. Trick Room had the Mirror Move flag in 4th gen, but it didn't matter because you could never target the Mirror Move user with Trick Room. Presumably Magic Room and Wonder Room can also be copied, since they too have the Mirror Move flag.

    Does anyone know whether using Magic Room again while it's up ends the effect? Same with Wonder Room?
  10. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    I have played both a JP ROM and a JP retail cart, and this Torment scenario would always happen while training in the Desert, or using Liepard.
  11. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    OK, I just did a test on my Japanese copy of White. I took out a 26th level Klink, retaught it Charge, and wandered around Route 5.

    Charge is the perfect move for this test because it can be used turn after turn and doesn't fail.

    I fought a wild 22nd level Liepard.

    Turn 1:
    Liepard uses Fury Swipes. (Hits Klink 5 times, 3rd time is a crit)
    Klink uses Charge. (SpDef goes up)

    Turn 2:
    Liepard uses Pursuit.
    Klink uses Charge. (SpDef goes up)

    Turn 3:
    Liepard uses Fake Out. (It fails)
    Klink uses Charge. (SpDef goes up)

    Turn 4:
    Liepard uses Torment.
    Klink uses Charge. (SpDef goes up)

    Turn 5:
    I can't choose Charge again.
  12. poccil

    poccil
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    TheMaskedNitpicker:

    Yes, just like Trick Room, the same applies to Magic Room and Wonder Room: "Effect ends when any active Pokémon uses this move."
  13. EvilMario

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    I'm sorry if this has been answered, but does Mummy activate if the Pokemon is hitting Cofagrigus's Substitute with a physical attack?
  14. poccil

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    EvilMario:

    No, because the bearer of Mummy doesn't lose HP when the attack hits its substitute. My description for Mummy reads in part:

    "Whenever bearer loses HP due to a direct attack by a non-bearer, that non-bearer's Ability becomes this Ability"
  15. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Apparently a No-Guard Machamp can hit Pokemon that are in the semi-invulnerable state after using Dig. Is this new, or did I just never observer that before?
  16. poccil

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    Sprocket:

    That behavior is not new: it was present in generation 4 as well. My guides on abilities and explanations provide as follows:


    No Guard -- Attacks by and against bearer hit without fail in accuracy checks.

    "Hits without fail" -- An attack that 'hits without fail' will succeed even if the opponent is using Fly, Dig, Dive, Shadow Force, or Bounce.
  17. Dark Pulse

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    Victory Star in Rotation Battles

    I'm going to do some testng myself with a rotational battle soon, we will be using a Victini, that will start off in the party (not grid) to test Victory star with High-Jump Kick (from my Scrafty [either 90% accurate, or 99%])

    after a few tests, we'll put Victini into the "bench" (incative grid) and see what happens

    any other things you want me to test? I'll be testing in 2 hours (I haven't seen any of this stuff, but if it's been tested, please tell me)

    EDIT - also testing:
    I think this may be useful with Denchura's 91% accurate thunder, plus the 10% boost from Victory star (will it be 101%[full stack], 98%[simple stack] or 91%[non-stack] total?)

    I have Pokemon Black, my friend (with Victini) has White version... BUT we bought them in Australia (that won't make a difference IMO, but still...)
  18. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse

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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    am I seeing what I think I'm seeing???

    would this then be possible (NOT tested, this is a made-up battle)

    turn 1. no shift - Slaking1 uses Return
    turn 2. shift to slaking2 - slaking2 uses Return
    turn 3. shift to Slaking1 - Slaking1 uses Return
    turn 4. no shift - Slaking1 is loafing around
    turn 5. shift to slaking2 - slaking2 uses Return
    turn 6. shift to Slaking1 - Slaking1 uses Return

    if that is possible, this means that Slaking could become a Rotational Behemoth.
  19. poccil

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    Dark Pulse:

    Victory Star's change to accuracy is a multiplier, that is, the accuracy is multiplied by 1.1. Most if not all effects that modify accuracy do so by multiplying the previous accuracy; this is the case here too. This is why I prefer using expressions like "halved", "doubled", "multiplied by 1.5" and so on, since it's clearer than stating a percentage that such effects are multiplicative rather than additive.

    The Victory Star effect is cumulative with other accuracy-modifying effects.
  20. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse

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    this has been confirmed???

    either way I'm scheduled for the battle, so I'll be testing this regardless

    if you want any other Rotational battle tests done, tell me please (I understand what you mean by x1.1, same as compoundeyes's boost)
  21. XienZo

    XienZo

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    Huh? Slaking would loaf around on turn 3 and 5, since on turns 2 and 3 respectively, you shifted them out when they were supposed to be loafing, so they would instead loaf on the next available turns, which are turn 3 and 5.
  22. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse

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    oh ok, I guess I misread the post then

    *facepalms at noobishness*

    yeah that makes much more sence lol
  23. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Does No Guard affect all pokemons moves in Rotation/Triple Battles? Or just the ones used by the No Guard poke and aimed at the No Guard poke?
  24. poccil

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    Chieliee:

    No Guard affects only attacks by its bearer and against its bearer:

    "Attacks by and against bearer hit without fail in accuracy checks."

    No Guard doesn't work the following way, for example:

    "While bearer is active, attacks by each active Pokemon hit without fail in accuracy checks."

    Thus, for example, if a Pokemon with No Guard is active, attacks by other Pokemon, where neither attacker nor opponent has No Guard, can miss.
  25. Slightly

    Slightly

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    If sheer cold can only hit pokemon equal or lower in level normally, if someone used sheer cold on a higher level (no guard) machamp, would it hit?

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