~ Hello, and welcome to Lameflame's BW2 UU Rate My Team! ~
Housekeeping: I realize this may be inopportune timing with the recent unveiling of XY UU, but that's neither here nor there, and I'm hoping to get as much feedback as possible (so do share your thoughts, comments and suggestions, uncensored).
Team Background: So I used to run a very squishy team with 4 scarfers, a Weavile, and an exploding Qwilfish. Hence, very squishy, and almost 100% reliant on good prediction to win battles (did surprisingly well though). Eventually I figured I'd be much better off predicting well with less-squishy 'mons -- however, I'm a very offensively-minded player, so I wanted to preserve as much offense as possible with keeping some good defensive balance. Pokemon is way more fun for me when you have to predict your way to victory as opposed to stalling for 150+ turns (nothing against stall, it's totally viable -- just doesn't do it for me).
What I Need from this RMT: I need help identifying any potentially major threats to my team that I haven't already identified. I know others have produced RMTs with extensive threat lists, and while I would love to do this (and may in the near future), what I really need is an answer to the 'mons that outright give my team major trouble. So far, these consist of (to my knowledge):
Click the Button to view the Threat List.
- Bulky Stall Cofagrigus: This is threat #1 to my team, or it seems like it. Without Shaymin's Seed Flare Sp. Def drops, or crit Outrages, or just an overall bad usage of Cofagrigus, I can't stop this thing. WoW cripples everyone but Victini, and Victini isn't going to want to take a Shadow Ball, even if unboosted. Plus, most people don't leave Cofagrigus in on Victini anyway (obviously), so it's not like this 1v1 ever happens. I really need a way to stop this.
- Umbreon: Urg. I had the exact same problem with this as I did with Cofagrigus, and I ended up adding Megahorn on Rhyperior, switching Snorlax for Umbreon, and Superpower over Fire Punch on Flygon just to deal with this. I'm not running a fighting type and there are no fairies to be seen in Unova, so yeah, Umbreon isn't fun.
- Sub SD Heracross: So uh, I didn't get the memo that SD Heracross was back, but it's definitely back. At least, I used to see ScarfMoxieCross everywhere almost every battle, but lately I've seen a lot of SD Heracross sets, or Guts (it's really the same "threat"), and it plows through my team. Yes, I have Victini, but if I lose Victini, I'm pretty screwed, and Victini isn't the easiest to send in and out of battle. Nobody is going to leave Heracross in on Victini, so I'm just racking up potential stealth rock damage doing so. Flygon is usually my better option to deal with this thing, but not really, since I have to go Outrage to kill it ... leaving me susceptible to whatever other shenanigans the opponent has in store for me while I'm locked into it.
- MoxieCross: Same idea as SD Heracross, kinda. This one is a bit more manageable for me, but still hits hard. Although Heracross just hits hard in general, so maybe this isn't a threat necessarily. Maybe.
- Life Orb Honchkrow: Annoying. I've been 6-0'd by Honchkrows before, and it's really not 100% my fault (well, technically.. shhh). Victini gets trapped by Honchkrow because if I attack, I'm OHKO'd by Sucker Punch. I can't leave either, since they usually run Pursuit (or maybe Roost instead, but there's the fear of Pursuit, which forces me to guess and attack anyway). He can Superpower my Rhyperior (which does around half at +0) and Umbreon, Brave Bird my Shaymin, Sucker Punch my Victini, Flygon, Slowbro, and .. yeah, that's all 6 pokemon.
- SD Weavile: The frailty of Weavile helps me here, but sometimes it's too late. Ice Shard OHKO's Flygon, as it's 4x weak to it with poor defense. The Ice/Dark/Fighting combo is fast enough and strong enough as coverage to burn through my team late-game. I don't have nearly the same issue with it as I do with Cofagrigus and the other threats, but yeah, it can be troublesome if played right.
- Scarf Mienshao: HJK, Aerial Ace, Stone Edge, U-turn. I do run Max Def Rhyperior, but that's really not a great "check" to Mienshao (lol, Rhyperior checking Mienshao). Aerial Ace hurts Shaymin quite a lot, although it's almost irrelevant because U-turn isn't appreciated on my life-orb set which constantly needs to recover from its own attacks. Stone Edge can destroy Victini, and ScarfShao is faster than the whole team (tier, really), so Flygon can't take a HJK either. I have to play Slowbro right, or else it's curtains for my team.
- DD Kingdra: Rhyperior can't really threaten this thing, although its attacks hurt it somewhat. I can definitely take a Waterfall or maybe two unboosted, but the point is that this thing sets up on me and goes from DD to GG, if you follow. Shaymin is usually somewhat of an answer depending on the number of boosts, except not really, since I can only really break his sub or maybe hit him for around 45% with Seed Flare before he rampages through me with Outrage. The Special set is also troublesome for Shaymin, as even though he's not Dragon Dancing, he's still twice (literally) as fast and strong with Rain Dance, taking Ice Beams and/or Hydro Pumps. Flygon can't touch this at +2, and at +1 it's a speed tie normally. Victini also can't touch it, and Slowbro much prefers the Physical set over the Special set .. except he can just use Slowbro as setup-fodder (although he does risk a Scald burn, so perhaps not).
Additionally, I have a few other recommendations and sets that I was running on this team, but decided to swap out. I'll post those at the bottom and if anyone thinks they are actually better, equally or more viable sets, I'll consider swapping them back in.
***The Team***
Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 156 HP / 100 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn
EVs: Everyone knows Rhyperior is a physical behemoth, but struggles with Sp. Def. Most people remedy this problem by using heavy or maximum Sp. Def investment. I used to run a different set (listed below), but the way I play, it honestly never makes a difference how much Sp. Def I add into Rhyperior because it's not his job, imo, and he shouldn't be taking special hits. His job is to take physical moves well and set up Stealth Rocks, and my philosophy is that you're better off bettering your strengths than patching up your weaknesses (to an extent obviously, but like I said, offensive player). I mentioned that Honchkrow is an issue for my team, and it is, but before it gets any moxie boosts it wouldn't dare go for a Superpower without facing a certain OHKO to Rock Blast. Victini's V-Create is the most powerful move in the tier, and if you don't pack something that can resist it on your BW2 UU team, well, select a different tier. I included the two Heracross calcs to show how much those moves are actually doing if he's locked into them instead of Close Combat, as Megahorn does some relatively good damage against me even with max def investment. I included the Mienshao HJK calc because on my Protect set, if it came down to having to switch in Rhyperior on Mienshao late game, I could take one before he crashes on the second one.
Sp. Def is obviously a problem, but honestly, I find it to be pretty irrelevant anyway. I figure if it comes down to my Rhyperior needing to take a special move for me to win, I probably already lost, or deserve to lose.
Moves: Stealth Rock is there because Rhyperior is the best and only candidate on my team to set them up, and obviously the move itself doesn't need any justification. Earthquake is self-explanatory as well: powerful stab move, pretty standard. I much prefer Rock Blast over Stone Edge because nothing sucks more than having to rely on the shoddy accuracy of Stone Edge when another poke is behind a sub. It's also useful to have a sub-breaker when I play against Baton Pass (my team really, really doesn't like Baton Pass). Lastly, I originally ran Protect for the last move, but I switched it to Megahorn. My strength is in prediction, and it was frustrating to know that the Shaymin/Slowbro/Umbreon was coming, but also knowing I couldn't damage it. The calcs below illustrate the magnitude of the dent that Megahorn puts into the aforementioned switch-ins that are expecting an Earthquake/Rock Blast/Stealth Rock (slowbro only takes around 50% and can heal it off after, but it's better than the alternative).
Calcs:
Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Def / 120 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
EVs: Somewhat standard EV spread, except as you might have noticed with the Rhyperior set, I often trade a little HP (debatable if it's "little") for a little Atk or Sp. Atk. This extra Sp. Atk, as noted by the calcs, lets me OHKO any Life Orb or Specs Roserade who almost always comes in on Slowbro expecting to take a Scald and Leaf Storm / Giga Drain / set up Spikes in return. Otherwise, everyone knows what Slowbro does, so I'm not going to go too in-depth with it, I'll let the calcs do the talking. He resists fighting like a champ, notably Heracross' Close Combat and Mienshao's High Jump Kick.
Moves: Scald is the obvious choice for the 30% burn chance, and because the added power of Surf or Hydro Pump wouldn't really make sense based on my EVs. It also hits a little harder than most Slowbro scalds due to the added Sp. Atk from my EV spread. Psyshock, again, cripples Roserade and does good damage against essentially everything that doesn't resist it, although I'm open to hearing argument for Psychic (I'm pretty sure Psyshock is the better move though). I prefer the Calm Mind/Slack off combo, but honestly, the number of times I really get to set-up Calm Mind isn't many. It's only been helpful when I've absolutely had to rely on Slowbro to sweep through the rest of someone's team, or to get a little extra punch on my attacks, but it doesn't boost my survivability as Chandelure/Roserade-Leaf Storm/Seed Flare/etc. are still going to do a ton to me regardless. Maybe Thunder Wave, or the surprise Fire Blast? Just a thought.
Calcs:
Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- U-turn
EVs: Standard Adamant Scarf Flygon set. He needs to be Adamant, because while base 100 Atk is good, it's not amazing. There's really no reason to run Jolly, or any other set IMO.
Moves: I absolutely love the dual-stab, sweeping potential of Flygon. Seriously, the number of "houdini's" I've pulled to weasel my way out of games that I truthfully nearly lost is through the roof because of this thing. Earthquake eliminates so many good UU pokes, namely Raikou, Chandelure, Empoleon, Arcanine (even does good damage at -1), Darmanitan, Victini, etc., while Outrage cleans up the rest. Even Registeel and Rhyperior, two of the best defensive walls in UU are weak to Earthquake and are 2HKO'd cleanly, including max HP and max Def Registeel noted below (well, 66% chance, but most Registeels are Sp. Defensive I thought, right? Maybe?) U-turn is there for keeping momentum in the battle and allowing me to U-turn back and forth between Flygon and Victini if need be. For the last move, honestly, I'm not really sure what do use, but even more so, I'm not sure it matters. It's either going to be Superpower or Fire Punch, and I can't think of anything that is hit harder by Superpower than Earthquake. Fire Punch has only one use at all in my opinion, and it's to kill Ferroseed easier. I guess.
Calcs:
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Rest
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
EVs: Standard Life Orb Shaymin EV spread. I much prefer Timid over Modest, since with Life Orb this thing still hits quite hard. Open to trying a Modest Shaymin if it's suggested, although I think most people agree that Timid is the better nature, and the EVs are pretty self-explanatory.
Moves: Can't see a reason to use any grass move on Shaymin besides Seed Flare, except maybe the somewhat unreliable accuracy. As unlucky as I am, I seriously appreciate the 40% chance for a Sp. Def drop (combined with the 10% chance from Earth Power when applicable), the lack of negative consequences to it, and the 120 base power. Rest/Natural Cure is a pretty nifty combo as I can fully heal, absorb/heal status, and switch out to be good as new. I've never tried Synthesis admittedly, so I can't really comment on if/why it's better than Synthesis, but it does its job well. Hidden Power Ice is chosen over HP Fire because a lot of people switch in/leave in Gligar against me expecting to .. do something? I'm not really sure, but it happens a lot, and HP Ice hammers into Gligar even with Timid over Modest. It also hits Bulky Zapdos, Specially Defensive Xatu and Honchkrow for good damage, as I can usually outspeed them and make those 3HKOs more like potential 2HKOs, or guaranteed with Stealth Rocks (which I didn't include in my calcs).
Moreover though, I desperately need Shaymin to stay alive when I'm fighting against Umbreon/Cofagrigus, especially specially defensive Cofagrigus. My only real hope is to get Sp. Def drops, because while these calculations suggest that the task is easier than I'm describing to take down these 'mons, I only have 8 Seed Flare PP. That matters, because I can't continually go for it over and over again against Umbreon who protects every other turn, and can Foul Play/Wish stall me in-between. Thus I have to keep them sparingly so that when the time comes, I have 1-2 kill moves left. Plus, even if I can heal off Toxic with ease, the time I spend going for a rest is usually spent by Umbreon/Cofagrigus going for Wish/Pain Split, or something like that, and thus it's even harder for me to kill. Shaymin is basically my best answer to stall.
Calcs:
Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
EVs: Standard Umbreon EVs, no reason to deviate from what works. Takes special moves well from most special attackers, bar Chandelure, who is better-resisted by Thick Fat Snorlax (who you'll see as a swap-out for this spot down below). I included the Chandelure Fire Blast calc-comparison below.
Moves: I'm really not a big fan of using pokes with no attacking moves, bar maybe Skarmory in OU now that Defog is actually a thing, I guess. Foul Play gets good damage too, on top of simply being an attacking move, doing around 33% to Raikou, maiming Darmanitan, Victini and Mienshao, and is STAB against Slowbro if that counts for anything when trying to Toxic stall it out. Wish/Heal bell because that's Umbreon's job as a cleric, no need to dive deeper into what clerics do. I ultimately chose Toxic over Protect because, aside from seeing a huge rise in Toxic Umbreon, I really appreciate being able to put toxic on Rhyperiors, Slowbros, Machamps (on switch in), Raikous, Blastoise's, Zapdos's, etc. that like to stay in and try their hand at out-muscling my Sp. Def, Toxic stalling me, or outright KOing me. As for Protect, honestly, I don't need it. It's more of a luxury to guarantee that you can heal Umbreon un-interrupted, but in my experience, everyone expects you to have it and starts setting up/switching/doing something annoying. I have slowbro for the Mienshao HJK, so it's not like that's a huge issue, although when slowbro is gone, it makes my life a lot harder.
Calcs:
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
EVs: Similar to Flygon, this thing needs all the attack it can get despite the high BP of its moves. I see no real incentive to go Jolly over Adamant, and the EVs themselves are obviously spread.
Moves: V-Create is an absolutely monstrous move. 180 BP with no Attack drop like Close Combat is an incredibly useful asset to have on my team. I typically like to have someone on my teams that can explode / go nuclear if necessary, and V-Create allows me to say "You -> Gone", even if it's not-very effective in some cases. The only common UU pokes that can really stop V-Create are Rhyperior, Kingdra, Chandelure/Arcanine (Flash Fire), Suicune, and Slowbro. That might sound like a solid list, but essentially, everything else is basically getting OHKO'd, or severely maimed on switch in by V-Create, only to be 2HKO'd next turn since my speed drop simply negates my scarf, leaving me at 298 - usually fast enough to get off a second.
Bolt Strike is useful for Suicune/Slowbro/Blastoise on switch-in, Zen Headbutt is there for stab/flinch/not-locking-myself-into-V-Create at the end of games, and U-turn preserves momentum and lets me escape against anything that can scare Victini out. I also like to lead with Victini usually, mainly for the same reason as people lead with Genesect in OU: it's hard to counter, and it's unpredictable (to an extent). Though I don't run it, I have seen a pretty sizeable sample of Victini's used against me running Special Scarf sets, or Life Orb Special/Mixed, or even the (somewhat rare) E-Belt.
He's one of my favorite sweepers, but .. isn't without flaws. Namely, hazards hurt. I don't run a rapid spinner, and this is BW2, so there's no Defog to bail me out. I'm not sure any calcs are necessary for Victini, though if I decide to add some later to illustrate a point, I will do so.
Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 156 HP / 100 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn
EVs: Everyone knows Rhyperior is a physical behemoth, but struggles with Sp. Def. Most people remedy this problem by using heavy or maximum Sp. Def investment. I used to run a different set (listed below), but the way I play, it honestly never makes a difference how much Sp. Def I add into Rhyperior because it's not his job, imo, and he shouldn't be taking special hits. His job is to take physical moves well and set up Stealth Rocks, and my philosophy is that you're better off bettering your strengths than patching up your weaknesses (to an extent obviously, but like I said, offensive player). I mentioned that Honchkrow is an issue for my team, and it is, but before it gets any moxie boosts it wouldn't dare go for a Superpower without facing a certain OHKO to Rock Blast. Victini's V-Create is the most powerful move in the tier, and if you don't pack something that can resist it on your BW2 UU team, well, select a different tier. I included the two Heracross calcs to show how much those moves are actually doing if he's locked into them instead of Close Combat, as Megahorn does some relatively good damage against me even with max def investment. I included the Mienshao HJK calc because on my Protect set, if it came down to having to switch in Rhyperior on Mienshao late game, I could take one before he crashes on the second one.
Sp. Def is obviously a problem, but honestly, I find it to be pretty irrelevant anyway. I figure if it comes down to my Rhyperior needing to take a special move for me to win, I probably already lost, or deserve to lose.
Moves: Stealth Rock is there because Rhyperior is the best and only candidate on my team to set them up, and obviously the move itself doesn't need any justification. Earthquake is self-explanatory as well: powerful stab move, pretty standard. I much prefer Rock Blast over Stone Edge because nothing sucks more than having to rely on the shoddy accuracy of Stone Edge when another poke is behind a sub. It's also useful to have a sub-breaker when I play against Baton Pass (my team really, really doesn't like Baton Pass). Lastly, I originally ran Protect for the last move, but I switched it to Megahorn. My strength is in prediction, and it was frustrating to know that the Shaymin/Slowbro/Umbreon was coming, but also knowing I couldn't damage it. The calcs below illustrate the magnitude of the dent that Megahorn puts into the aforementioned switch-ins that are expecting an Earthquake/Rock Blast/Stealth Rock (slowbro only takes around 50% and can heal it off after, but it's better than the alternative).
Calcs:
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 80-95 (19.5 - 23.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Heracross Earthquake vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 105-124 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 126-148 (30.7 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 164-193 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 242-287 (59 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 248-294 (72.7 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 170-200 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
100 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Heracross Earthquake vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 105-124 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 126-148 (30.7 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 164-193 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 156 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 242-287 (59 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 248-294 (72.7 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 170-200 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
100 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Def / 120 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
EVs: Somewhat standard EV spread, except as you might have noticed with the Rhyperior set, I often trade a little HP (debatable if it's "little") for a little Atk or Sp. Atk. This extra Sp. Atk, as noted by the calcs, lets me OHKO any Life Orb or Specs Roserade who almost always comes in on Slowbro expecting to take a Scald and Leaf Storm / Giga Drain / set up Spikes in return. Otherwise, everyone knows what Slowbro does, so I'm not going to go too in-depth with it, I'll let the calcs do the talking. He resists fighting like a champ, notably Heracross' Close Combat and Mienshao's High Jump Kick.
Moves: Scald is the obvious choice for the 30% burn chance, and because the added power of Surf or Hydro Pump wouldn't really make sense based on my EVs. It also hits a little harder than most Slowbro scalds due to the added Sp. Atk from my EV spread. Psyshock, again, cripples Roserade and does good damage against essentially everything that doesn't resist it, although I'm open to hearing argument for Psychic (I'm pretty sure Psyshock is the better move though). I prefer the Calm Mind/Slack off combo, but honestly, the number of times I really get to set-up Calm Mind isn't many. It's only been helpful when I've absolutely had to rely on Slowbro to sweep through the rest of someone's team, or to get a little extra punch on my attacks, but it doesn't boost my survivability as Chandelure/Roserade-Leaf Storm/Seed Flare/etc. are still going to do a ton to me regardless. Maybe Thunder Wave, or the surprise Fire Blast? Just a thought.
Calcs:
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 136 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 71-84 (19.4 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
120 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 276-326 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 246-290 (93.8 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
120 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 276-326 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 246-290 (93.8 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- U-turn
EVs: Standard Adamant Scarf Flygon set. He needs to be Adamant, because while base 100 Atk is good, it's not amazing. There's really no reason to run Jolly, or any other set IMO.
Moves: I absolutely love the dual-stab, sweeping potential of Flygon. Seriously, the number of "houdini's" I've pulled to weasel my way out of games that I truthfully nearly lost is through the roof because of this thing. Earthquake eliminates so many good UU pokes, namely Raikou, Chandelure, Empoleon, Arcanine (even does good damage at -1), Darmanitan, Victini, etc., while Outrage cleans up the rest. Even Registeel and Rhyperior, two of the best defensive walls in UU are weak to Earthquake and are 2HKO'd cleanly, including max HP and max Def Registeel noted below (well, 66% chance, but most Registeels are Sp. Defensive I thought, right? Maybe?) U-turn is there for keeping momentum in the battle and allowing me to U-turn back and forth between Flygon and Victini if need be. For the last move, honestly, I'm not really sure what do use, but even more so, I'm not sure it matters. It's either going to be Superpower or Fire Punch, and I can't think of anything that is hit harder by Superpower than Earthquake. Fire Punch has only one use at all in my opinion, and it's to kill Ferroseed easier. I guess.
Calcs:
-1 252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 240-284 (62.5 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 180-213 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 180-212 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 66% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 180-213 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 180-212 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 66% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Rest
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
EVs: Standard Life Orb Shaymin EV spread. I much prefer Timid over Modest, since with Life Orb this thing still hits quite hard. Open to trying a Modest Shaymin if it's suggested, although I think most people agree that Timid is the better nature, and the EVs are pretty self-explanatory.
Moves: Can't see a reason to use any grass move on Shaymin besides Seed Flare, except maybe the somewhat unreliable accuracy. As unlucky as I am, I seriously appreciate the 40% chance for a Sp. Def drop (combined with the 10% chance from Earth Power when applicable), the lack of negative consequences to it, and the 120 base power. Rest/Natural Cure is a pretty nifty combo as I can fully heal, absorb/heal status, and switch out to be good as new. I've never tried Synthesis admittedly, so I can't really comment on if/why it's better than Synthesis, but it does its job well. Hidden Power Ice is chosen over HP Fire because a lot of people switch in/leave in Gligar against me expecting to .. do something? I'm not really sure, but it happens a lot, and HP Ice hammers into Gligar even with Timid over Modest. It also hits Bulky Zapdos, Specially Defensive Xatu and Honchkrow for good damage, as I can usually outspeed them and make those 3HKOs more like potential 2HKOs, or guaranteed with Stealth Rocks (which I didn't include in my calcs).
Moreover though, I desperately need Shaymin to stay alive when I'm fighting against Umbreon/Cofagrigus, especially specially defensive Cofagrigus. My only real hope is to get Sp. Def drops, because while these calculations suggest that the task is easier than I'm describing to take down these 'mons, I only have 8 Seed Flare PP. That matters, because I can't continually go for it over and over again against Umbreon who protects every other turn, and can Foul Play/Wish stall me in-between. Thus I have to keep them sparingly so that when the time comes, I have 1-2 kill moves left. Plus, even if I can heal off Toxic with ease, the time I spend going for a rest is usually spent by Umbreon/Cofagrigus going for Wish/Pain Split, or something like that, and thus it's even harder for me to kill. Shaymin is basically my best answer to stall.
Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 270-322 (80.8 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 156-185 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 237-281 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 253-300 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 148-175 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 156-185 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 237-281 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 253-300 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cofagrigus: 148-175 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
EVs: Standard Umbreon EVs, no reason to deviate from what works. Takes special moves well from most special attackers, bar Chandelure, who is better-resisted by Thick Fat Snorlax (who you'll see as a swap-out for this spot down below). I included the Chandelure Fire Blast calc-comparison below.
Moves: I'm really not a big fan of using pokes with no attacking moves, bar maybe Skarmory in OU now that Defog is actually a thing, I guess. Foul Play gets good damage too, on top of simply being an attacking move, doing around 33% to Raikou, maiming Darmanitan, Victini and Mienshao, and is STAB against Slowbro if that counts for anything when trying to Toxic stall it out. Wish/Heal bell because that's Umbreon's job as a cleric, no need to dive deeper into what clerics do. I ultimately chose Toxic over Protect because, aside from seeing a huge rise in Toxic Umbreon, I really appreciate being able to put toxic on Rhyperiors, Slowbros, Machamps (on switch in), Raikous, Blastoise's, Zapdos's, etc. that like to stay in and try their hand at out-muscling my Sp. Def, Toxic stalling me, or outright KOing me. As for Protect, honestly, I don't need it. It's more of a luxury to guarantee that you can heal Umbreon un-interrupted, but in my experience, everyone expects you to have it and starts setting up/switching/doing something annoying. I have slowbro for the Mienshao HJK, so it's not like that's a huge issue, although when slowbro is gone, it makes my life a lot harder.
Calcs:
252 SpA Flash Fire Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Flash Fire Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 116 HP / 196+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 103-123 (21 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Flash Fire Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 116 HP / 196+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 103-123 (21 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
EVs: Similar to Flygon, this thing needs all the attack it can get despite the high BP of its moves. I see no real incentive to go Jolly over Adamant, and the EVs themselves are obviously spread.
Moves: V-Create is an absolutely monstrous move. 180 BP with no Attack drop like Close Combat is an incredibly useful asset to have on my team. I typically like to have someone on my teams that can explode / go nuclear if necessary, and V-Create allows me to say "You -> Gone", even if it's not-very effective in some cases. The only common UU pokes that can really stop V-Create are Rhyperior, Kingdra, Chandelure/Arcanine (Flash Fire), Suicune, and Slowbro. That might sound like a solid list, but essentially, everything else is basically getting OHKO'd, or severely maimed on switch in by V-Create, only to be 2HKO'd next turn since my speed drop simply negates my scarf, leaving me at 298 - usually fast enough to get off a second.
Bolt Strike is useful for Suicune/Slowbro/Blastoise on switch-in, Zen Headbutt is there for stab/flinch/not-locking-myself-into-V-Create at the end of games, and U-turn preserves momentum and lets me escape against anything that can scare Victini out. I also like to lead with Victini usually, mainly for the same reason as people lead with Genesect in OU: it's hard to counter, and it's unpredictable (to an extent). Though I don't run it, I have seen a pretty sizeable sample of Victini's used against me running Special Scarf sets, or Life Orb Special/Mixed, or even the (somewhat rare) E-Belt.
He's one of my favorite sweepers, but .. isn't without flaws. Namely, hazards hurt. I don't run a rapid spinner, and this is BW2, so there's no Defog to bail me out. I'm not sure any calcs are necessary for Victini, though if I decide to add some later to illustrate a point, I will do so.
Overall, Rhyperior and Slowbro cover physical attackers well, and more importantly, cover each others' physical weaknesses well (though Megahorn is somewhat troublesome still). Victini and Flygon are a great pair, and I'd take those two sweepers any day in a late-game scenario. The Shaymin vs Roserade debate is still fierce, at least in my head, as they both have very redeeming qualities (and similar qualities, at that).
Swapped-Out Pokemon / Sets:
Ambipom @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Beat Up
- U-turn
- Double Hit
First off, the power of Ambipom's LO Stab Technician +2 Priority Fake Out is underrated. It takes chunks out of physically defensive pokemon that expect to take it on no problem. Really though, Victini is better at doing everything except killing Cofagrigus (or so I thought), so I considered Beat-Up (Adamant) Ambipom as a solution. Didn't really work, since Beat Up doesn't OHKO, and sometimes doesn't 2HKO either. Not that it matters, since Cofagrigus can either WoW / Pain Split me, or Pain Split my switch, and then it's all for naught. At that point, I'd just rather have Victini.
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 196 SDef / 28 Atk / 116 HP / 168 Def
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind / Curse
Ambipom @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Beat Up
- U-turn
- Double Hit
First off, the power of Ambipom's LO Stab Technician +2 Priority Fake Out is underrated. It takes chunks out of physically defensive pokemon that expect to take it on no problem. Really though, Victini is better at doing everything except killing Cofagrigus (or so I thought), so I considered Beat-Up (Adamant) Ambipom as a solution. Didn't really work, since Beat Up doesn't OHKO, and sometimes doesn't 2HKO either. Not that it matters, since Cofagrigus can either WoW / Pain Split me, or Pain Split my switch, and then it's all for naught. At that point, I'd just rather have Victini.
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 196 SDef / 28 Atk / 116 HP / 168 Def
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind / Curse
It's the standard EV spread, with the Lameflame touch on it (aka, take off from HP, put into Atk for extra firepower, you saw it above). This has saved me in a lot of battles, and I haven't fully retired it in favor of Umbreon yet, but there are some battles when I'd really, really much rather have Umbreon. Not everything hits with Fire/Ice special moves, and when those moves are anything else, Umbreon is superior. Also, burned Flygon, Paralyzed Victini, Poisoned Slowbro, etc. isn't very useful, and Heal Bell is hugely appreciated. Additionally, I don't have a spinner (I really dislike all the BW2 UU spinners), so Wish-passing into Victini, though it doesn't happen too often, is a nice way-out if I need it. Alas, Snorlax is temporarily put to rest.
- Flygon: Fire Punch -> Superpower
- Rhyperior: Used to have 195 Sp. Def EVs, 328 Atk, 340 Def, and the rest in HP. I figured that set had the best of all worlds, and maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. It just seemed like every time I'd need the Sp. Def, it wasn't there, and I was getting OHKO'd anyway, so I switched to my current set.
What do you think? Thanks in advance for all comments, positive, negative, comedic or otherwise!
Importable:
Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 156 HP / 100 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn
Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Def / 120 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- U-turn
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Rest
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 156 HP / 100 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn
Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Def / 120 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- U-turn
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Rest
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
