BH Balanced Hackmons Central Resources

pazza

Banned deucer.
hi im here! I would want to suggest a team by 1-8OO for samples! ( idk his smogon :[)
DOS.png000_25.png000_23.png644.png113.pngAegislash.png
http://pokepast.es/93b454feb2424728
Gyarados-M - Is the lead gets rocks ups and nuzzles opponents,also is a improof to MMY.
Steelix-Mega - Slow pivot mon can also improof Zekrom.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y - Standard MMY set late game sweeper,as said before Gyarados-M is its improof.
Zekrom - Probably the most underrated sweeper in bh,hits really hard and is self improofed/can be improofed by Lix.
Chansey - No comment.
Aegislash - A really good prank mon,can stop setup sweepers and can take a mon with it while it dies.

Shoutouts to 1-8OO

pls no roast
 
I would have definitely made this nom earlier had I noticed, but I think Kartana is definitely too low and needs to be B+ at least as far as I'm concerned.

It is (imo) the best unburden user in the tier and is one of the best wall breakers with its band steelworker set both thanks to its godly attack stat and STAB sunsteel strike.

I'm not really sure what more needs to be said about this it's just a really good offensive mon.

Band Steelworker:
252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 301-355 (59.7 - 70.4%)

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 297-351 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 446-526 (122.5 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if they're prankster etc)
252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 139-165 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (if they're flash fire)

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Shield: 139-165 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 165-193 (40.8 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (V-Create 2hkos easily)

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 133-157 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 159-188 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 213-252 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Kartana (Imposter): 660-780 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Kartana: 103-121 (14.6 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 348-411 (82 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(Possibly chip damage against gigas is unrealistic but w/e)

252 Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 373-441 (90 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Just to show offensive mons have no right to be switching in.

Belly Drum:
+6 252 Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 532-627 (105.5 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252 Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 248-292 (68.1 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Obviously Sacred Fire kills non flash fire)

+6 252 Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 323-381 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Kyogre-Primal: 390-458 (96.5 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


As shown by the calcs defensive switchins to the steelworker set are extremely limited and most get 2hkoed after rocks or a little more chip damage. The "safe" switchins include Flash Fire bulky steels (not flimsy Aegislash), Groudon-Primal as long as they don't click Power Whip so that's fairly prediction/set dependent and is rare anyway, Fur Coat Dialga, Poison Heal Zygarde and a few other niche things. However Sunsteel Strike has only 8 PP which means if you do have a soft check it is fairly easy to neuter Kart by wasting it's valuable moves.
Imposter can switch into most of Kart's moves safely which further wastes it's pp but must be weary of V-create which can OHKO on the switch in. However with this set being Choice locked imposter can find a few safe switchins easily.
The big downside of this set is the middling speed and the absence of any special bulk whatsoever which means Kartana is relatively easy to revenge kill or force out with fast special threats such as mmy or even LO mega diancie which means despite being a brilliant wall breaker it can struggle against more offensive teams.

The Belly Drum set it an extremely potent sweeper whilst being self imposter proof which earns it a very good place on HO teams. However unlike some sweepers (such as Regigigas) it requires more support to set up safely and often relies on predicting a forced switch to avoid dying as it belly drums or getting Spectral Thieved.
It is also a one use setup which often means the Belly Drum set is not as desirable on bulky teams who prefer consistent pressure throughout the match.

Overall I think the outstanding pressure that Kartana can put on a defensive core as well as the ability to sweep whole teams with a little support means Kartana deserves a place in B+ but it's flaws are notable enough for it to not be A rank.

Edit to make ScarfWynaut happy
 
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cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
sample team submissions i guess
venu stall
Aged Dragon (Venusaur-Mega) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Anchor Shot
- Poison Fang
- Stealth Rock

Inflated Mat (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Soft-Boiled
- Spectral Thief
- Toxic Spikes
- Core Enforcer

Starlight Carnival (Magearna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Defog
- Spectral Thief
- Worry Seed

Fusion Material (Blissey) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit
- Trick
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind

Great Protector (Giratina) @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Wish
- U-turn
- Baneful Bunker

Ocean Man (Gyarados-Mega) (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Pursuit
- Milk Drink
- Spectral Thief
this team takes advantage of mega venusaur's ability to remove toxic spikes as it switches in, which is a trait not shared by many other defensive pokemon. the mon/ability choices are used to cover common meta threats pretty much. no, the team is not 6-0d by zekrom unless you misplay badly like sw would.

how to use: try to stack hazards and pressure their defog user by poisoning it if you can. imposter is your friend for figuring out which walls you need to keep healthy. if you don't need a mon, don't be afraid to play recklessly with it
i got #1 with this team under the alt name 'truth and beauty' but i forgot to save proof, sorry. duckymomo can confirm
kyub balance
Kyurem-Black @ Expert Belt
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Boomburst
- Bolt Strike
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief

Scizor-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Worry Seed
- U-turn
- Recover
- Sunsteel Strike

Dialga @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Revelation Dance
- Core Enforcer

Slowbro-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Slack Off
- Haze
- U-turn
- Scald

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Photon Geyser
- Spectral Thief
- Stealth Rock

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
- Shore Up
choice band mmx is very useful for breaking opposing balance teams, but lots of them have counters to it. on the other hand, no team has counters to this fabulous kyurem b set so unless you run into some fc solgaleo ct, you can just punch holes with kyurem then bring in mmx later. scizor and bro are the imposter proofers while dialga takes care of scary stuff like mmy and mray. imposter is imposter
i got nothing yet because this team is new and i'm sick of laddering but trust me it works

mega sceptile balance
scepteam.png

Sceptile-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Magma Storm
- Draco Meteor
- Encore

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off
- Moongeist Beam
- Volt Switch

Arceus-Psychic @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Milk Drink
- Glare
- Circle Throw
- Spectral Thief

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
- Shore Up

Celesteela @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Circle Throw
- Roost
- Glare

Diancie @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 97
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- U-turn
- Worry Seed
- Heal Order
use mmy to hit guys then just go sceptile on the recover and encore. it's just that easy. unaware arceus imposter proofs mega sceptile and if you para imposter then you probably win.
beat elmustacho in ultimate league with this
 
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VR:
Primal Kyogre third ability should be Unaware > Fur Coat
Slaking is still somewhat shallower Regigigas in the matchup against special attacking tanks, not really buying the merge, not too huge an issue though.
Add Magic Bounce to Magearna as its niche in Core immunity + Poison Immunity, therefore having a great Matchup against the trending Poison Fang + Core Hazard war sets.

random thoughts that probably others can think about:
Rank FC M-Sab to D as its niche in checking MMX and Gigas at the same time.
Maybe make Cresselia to B- as its reliability in checking both Adapt and PsySurge MMX (more discussed in my post in the suspect thread).
Swampert-Mega might fit in C at this point since even it has its niche you wouldn't really fit it onto any team like you would fit in a Celesteela, and isn't something that you expect to see very often these days. Same goes to Kyurem-W tbh, but I'm not so sure.

Set-pedia: somehow I lost edit access after it is made public, so some updates proposals:

Whole set:
Add back FF Celesteela imo
Slash Misty Surge to Defensive Pivot Giratina
Add Unaware Kyogre-Primal (slash it before FC maybe)
Add Psy-Surge MMX: benchmark Band set / Shell Smash set
Add Adapt MMX with Photon Geyser
Add Unburden Belly Drum Mach Punch Photon Geyser MMX
Remove Galvanize Sceptile-Mega (Scarf imposter at +3 can OHKO after rocks due to judgment being normal type)
Add Ultra-Necrozma (Contrary / Tinted Lens)
Add FF Registeel & FF Solgaleo
Add Necrozma Dusk Mane (same first two sets with Solgaleo mostly, with some tweaks maybe)
Add Magic Bounce to Magearna
Add Magic Bounce to Xerneas
Add Misty Surge to Zyg-C (or slash it to defensive pivot)

Details:
Magic Guard Diancie-Mega: Mind Blown slash before Flare Blitz (or replace it maybe)
Normalize Gengar-Mega: Remove core enforcer as it no longer cancels out Magic bounce on the switch
Unburden Kartana: Add Power whip as the fourth move, slash t-arrows after it
Remove or slash Core Enforcer after Draco on Kyurem-White set as it doesn't cancel prankster on the switch anymore.
Move down a little for the Tinted Lens Core Ray due to the similar reason, failing to cancel Regen on the switch.

okay onto the real part of the post:
Sample Team Submission: Some Legacy

1. Offensive Balance ft. PsySurge Band MMX + Tinted MMY

importable with basic hints: http://pokepast.es/50a08a868f48fa10
Generic Build featuring PsySurge Band MMX + Tinted MMY, and an acceptable defensive backbone.
  • Band Surge MMX to set the terrain and net a bunch 2HKOs on unprepared teams, also offering great offensive pressure against opposing -Ate and other offensive threats, giving the team a fast pivot. Trick against annoying stuff like Prankster d-bond. Imposter proof by Aegislash.
  • Tinted MMY as a late game sweeper. Spore under Psychic Terrain to capitalize on RegenVest Solgaleo / Registeel / Cress / Porge etc. It can wipe out Registeel in one shot and even 2HKO AV-Solgaleo at +3 under terrain support. Imposter proof by Yveltal. Scout enough about the opponent's ability with Chansey before you click Spore to avoid being bounced back. Obvious Goggles Mon needs to be Tricked or weakened.
  • Unaware Yveltal gives the ghost resist that the team apparently needs, dealing with most Gengar sets and can check certain Contrary mons in an emergency.
  • Prankster Aegislash deals with stuff that the team cannot handle with prankster d-bond, together with Imposter.
  • A Spectral Thief Aegislash can be used with Defog+Parting Shot Eviolite Chansey to help u keep better momentum when Aegislash is copied by opposing imposter, and also avoids opponent's set up sweeper spamming setup moves after you click d-bond. U-turn can be used instead to pair with Scarf Imposter Chansey.
  • Ferro provides a fairly reliable solution to PH Gigas / Xern / Pogre. It can run pivot and forgo the self-imposter-proof trait for better momentum. Note that none of the teammates can outright threaten imposter that transforms into ferro so that is a downside facing an imposter Chansey that wants to PP stall you.
  • General weak matchup: The team actually lacks hazard control, except on imposter when it comes in vs opposing imposter transforming as your Aegislash (or maybe ferro). Defensively, no actual reliable switch-in for M-Kanga/ RedOrb PDon/ M-Garchomp/ SmashUnburdenTtar, so you need to offensively check them (or try to trade them if needed). Opposing BandSurge MMX can be threatening if carrying Ghost/Dark Coverage, do pressure it with your MMY. Odor Sleuth/Soak Shed (with a pursuit teammate) can be annoying if it finds Yveltal or Ferro. On the Offensive side, Solgaleo, or the combination of Solgaleo+Giratina+Imposter needs to be played around with good plays to actually break through. Heavy Hazard Stall teams need to be played around carefully since no Defog unless you send Chansey in vs opposing imposter


2. Full stall ft. PH Zyg-C

importable with basic hints: http://pokepast.es/c5994eeeef73b52f
A stall build based on self-trapping improof & hazard stacking, while also providing checks and counters to the majority of the meta.
  • PH Bunker Zyg-C is the primary switch-in for Gigas, Surge MMX, Shed, Red Orb Pdon, and Mega-Kanga, and even Band Steelworker Kartana. With Baneful Bunker it can scout a lot of choice lock mons to help the teammates to wall it with Xerneas (Fighting Resist & Core Immune), Solgaleo (4 time resists Psychic) and Ttar (Psychic Immunity). It traps imposter with T-waves.
  • Unaware Primal Kyogre provides a reliable check against PH Porge, Xern, and Setup Special Attackers without an SE STAB, while also checking normalize MGar with Revelation Dance. Imposter Proof by Chansey, or Solgaleo if in an emergency, through trapping.
  • FF Solgaleo deals with Contrary MMY (or M-Scep that Porge can't deal with) without Moongiest Beam, and -Ate with V-create. It packs SR since it has the chance to 2HKO MBounce Audino/Xern with Anchor shot, therefore can have the chance to set up hazard against them. It traps imposter with Anchor Shot. If imposter comes in after it just steals some boost from shell smash, Unaware Pogre answers it.
  • Prankster Xern provides Haze against opposing set up sweepers while being immune to Core. U-turn out to Scarf Chansey if they keep spamming Smash. Having min speed Core + Tspikes support is great as well.
  • Scarf Chansey is Scarf Chansey and checks other stuff the teammates failed to check and punishing setup once their sash is broken.
  • Comatose Ttar provides the Ghost resist and trick immunity this team lacks, giving a reliable check against Most Gar set without Secret Sword since Porge can be overhauled at times, and packs Dark Z move that can deal 78.5 - 92.8% to opposing non-FC Giratina, possibly OHKOing after SR, therefore being a somewhat acceptable Spinner. It is the imposter proof of Xerneas as it is immune to status and doesn't take much from Core. It traps itself as a self-improof.
  • While Solgaleo and Zyg-C don't care about Tspikes, they trap the imposter themselves. Therefore, you should strategically set up Tspikes to poison opposing Imposter so you can wear them down more easily as POrge and Xern are prone to it. The opposing imposter might usually have one free turn of healing before they are forced out by trapping mons, so the toxic and hazard stacking is key to battle them in the long run. You should aim to bop opposing Magic Bounce users with the conjunction of Dark-Z move and chip damage, or use Core + Tspikes if they are faster than Xern & isn't immune to Core.
  • Weaknesses of the team include Thousand Arrow BellyBurden Kartana (Solgaleo usually lives a Power Whip) although Xern + Imposter can probably trade it. And the team is weak to a bunch of others specific sets like Pblade M-Diancie, Moongeist Beam Fleur Cannon Contrary MMY, Trick / Power Whip / V-create / Sunsteel Steelworker Kartana, Magic Bounce Registeel or Magearna that gives the team quite some trouble to set hazard etc. Shed cannot kill Zyg-C but if it is on a weird offensive team that Zyg-C is needed to be at high health, you might also meet some problem.

3. Balance ft. RegenVest Cress

importable with basic hints: http://pokepast.es/21aa85da8a5a8c72
A Balance Build featuring RegenVest Cress, Band Pursuit M-Gyara, and Rapid Spin M-Diancie.
  • RegenVest Cress is fairly reliable in scouting choice band MMX / choice spec MMY or even some shell smash variant of the two. MMY at +2 with Moongeist deals a bit over a half against it, while Band Adapt MMX under Psychic Terrain deals 51.1 - 60.3% against it so it can be a great pivot against the meta-trend. With Leftovers Misty Surge Giratina and Choice band Pursuit M-Gyara on its back, it checks the choice variants very well.
  • Misty Giratina is the Shed / PH Gigas switch-in while giving the team great support, being a bulky SR setter. Its imposter proof is Diancie-Mega with Rapid Spin.
  • Under Misty Terrain, AV-Cress gaining immunity to sleep moves and can therefore spectral & knock off against PH Xerneas and Porge, leaving them vulnerable to Registeel with Purify even if their Orb is already activated. If the opponent reveals Eviolite on Imposter (by any kind of damage you dealt, even U-turn on Registeel would reveal it) try catch opposing imposter on the switch with Knock off of opponent wants some free healing from the Regen on their Chansey. (No need to Knoff scarf as you can usually take advantage of scarf imposter.)
  • Momentum-grabbing Registeel together with Eviolite Chansey gives the team the last piece of defensive backbone that checks -Ate, Setup sweepers and providing a lot of scouting opportunities. Registeel with Purify further deals with Xerneas as Cress isn't doing enough damage to it. PH Sweepers after the purify (or Orb being blocked by Misty Terrain) usually loses one on one against Eviolite Imposter.
  • M-Diancie is the hazard remover and Offensive presence, revenge killing Certain Setup sweepers that the team cannot handle, such as Mach Punch BellyBurden MMX or some contrary ray set, as well as offensive PH Ttar / M-Gyara if they manage to pull through Misty Terrain. It packs ground judgment to hit opposing Steel for reasonable damage with Registeel as the imposter proof.
  • Bounce Band M-Gyara is a weird set that further sticks the team together as a Pursuit trapper against choice locked Psychic mons and Entrainment Normalize Gengar, as well as opposing imposter transforming as Cresselia (as mentioned before, Knock off Eviolite from Chansey so Pursuit can deal ~70%) as well as imposter-proofing Chansey if opposing min-speed imposter Chansey transforms as it.
  • Weak MU includes M-Kanga, Band VC / Power Whip / Sunsteel Kart, and Soak Endeavor U-turn Shed with Bounce Magearna / Xern / Registeel + Pursuit on its back. Band Surge MMX with Knock Off also makes quite some trouble.
  • An alternative version with Mold Breaker > Magic Bounce on M-Gyara helps with the Shed + Fairy / Slow Bounce MU while relying on the Band Trick to deal with Normalize Gengar. Choose the version as you wish: more reliable shed team answer or more reliable Normalize Gengar answer.

my name
team 1 lead to my roommate, a VGC player who never played BH before, to around 1600 on the ladder with decent GXE under 40 games.
team 2 & 3: my name actually a bunch of replays but I lost most of them, somehow kept two against the same person, unfortunately.


Among all the submitted sample teams that I've examined, I think two stands out to me being SW's shed team + willdbeast's team as they have the least weaknesses that I can spot with. (SW's 2nd still weak to surge MMX, ELMustacho's weak to ph earth Xern or ph Porge + ph Gigas, aki0s weak to normalize gar and MMX and ph stuff etc etc) I have proposed a change to willdbeast's team as well: change MDiancie to PH Xern with earth power in order to not lose to opposing FF Steel, while also maintaining the longevity of the attacker. This change actually makes it a bit more weak to BellyBurden Kart though.

Some very random cores and unfinished teams for those who are curious. (bad sets inside)

Due to a busy real life, this might be my last post for OM. It's been really fun for me, so yeah shoutouts to Willdbeast, Funbot28 aki0s motherlove GL Volkner, the fallen lance, and many others of the BH community that makes it great for me. (I can only tag 5 so x.x) Good luck and farewell. (I might still stop by to vote if there would be a suspect though)
 
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morogrim

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You can add my stall team to the compilation if you want



RMT is linked to the pic which has the descriptions and stuff. This team isn't as strong as it used to be before the Core Enforcer changes and usum, but it's still pretty decent and able to carry players pretty far. I might add an "updated" version of moro stall later.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I want to talk about Beedrill. I have two sets in particular that have worked well for me for a while.

Beedrill @ Buginium Z
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grass Whistle / Hypnosis
- Gunk Shot
- Megahorn
- Icicle Crash / Precipice Blades

Beedrill-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Toxic Spikes V-Create / Icicle Crash
- Trick

Beedrill is one of the fastest mons in the game and No Guard allows him to use high BP moves without fear of missing. MMY is outsped and OHKO'd by Megahorn or put to sleep. MMX is put to sleep and 2HKO’d by Savage Spin Out + Megahorn. It puts pressure on Fairies like Xerneas and Audino, being able to 2HKO both of them, and resists their STAB. +6 Xerneas Moonblast only has a slight chance to OHKO full health Beedrill. Coverage choice depends on which walls you’d like put a dent in. Ice can 2HKO Zygarde-C and Rayquaza, while Ground 2HKO’s Registeel, Solgaleo, Dialga, and Gengar. Beedrill at least 2HKO’s every S and A ranked mon in the game outside of Giratina and imposter. This set’s goggle ignoring sleep inducer and powerful STAB and coverage moves help it do so.

The mold breaker set is a powerful pivot that doesn't worry about Shedinja, MB, or FC. Trick is handy to cripple boosters or defensive mons. I like no guard better, but this one is fun to work with too.

Being able to outspeed and take out both of the Mewtwo twins without counting on speed ties comes few and far between these days. If Pheromosa gets a C rank, I feel that Beedrill at least deserves a D. Its fantastic speed and solid physical power are welcome in a Psychic dominated meta.

Edit: Changed T-spikes to V-Create. Works much better to not get walled by steels.
 
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morogrim

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Here's some of my opinions on the current VR:

- Primal Kyogre (PH, Regen, FC) -> (Unaware, Regen, FC/PH): Currently PH and FC ogre are used way less than the Unaware and RegenVest sets, and the VR should reflect this.

- Mmx (Psychic Surge, Adapt, Contrary): A+ to S or S- rank: Mmx def deserves at least S- rank imo as both Mmx and Mmy are currently the definers of the meta in terms of offensive threats. The most popular sets atm are Surge with either CB or Smash, CB Adapt, and Contrary (with either a regular item or sometimes even Mewtwonite Y).

- Zygarde-C (PH, FC, Mbounce) -> (PH, Unaware, Regen/Prankster): After usum, the usage of Zyg changed a bit with the introduction of Photon Geyser and the emergence of the new Mmx sets. Currently, it seems that PH, Unaware, RegenVest, and Prankster are the most dominant abilities that are run on Zygarde.

- Mega Gyarados: A to B rank: With the usage of Mmx increasing, Unaware Mega Gyarados has become way less viable but is still useful as a stop to Specs Surge Mmy and Mega Gengar with its RegenVest set. I'd even go as far as saying the offensive Mega Gyarados sets (such as offensive PH, Smash, and CB sets) are becoming as popular as the defensive ones atm, which warrants the change to B rank even further since Mega Ttar has the better offensive capabilities for the most part.

- Mega Audino (Mbounce, Unaware, PH) -> (Mbounce, PH, Unaware): PH is definitely used way more than Unaware on Mega Audino; in fact, PH probably has very similar usage to Mbounce. This isn't even something that changed because of usum, it's been like this for a very long time now...

- Dialga (Tinted, Regen, MBounce) -> (Mbounce, Regen, Tinted): B+ to A rank: Dialga imo has around the same viability as Solgaleo as the RegenVest set is way more useful than Solgaleo's RegenVest set. Taking neutral damage from Fire moves means that it can reliably wall many threats that run Fire coverage such as Specs Mmy and -Ate users that run V-create. It is also a way more reliable spinner than Solgaleo since it can 2HKO the most common spinblocker (Giratina) with its STAB Core Enforcer and force it out. The only drawbacks of Dialga is the fact that it takes neutral damage from Fairy and Dragon type moves, making it vulnerable to sets such as Pixilate Diancie. But then again RegenVest Solgaleo isn't really safe from -Ates either since most of them run V-create anyway. Additionally, the Mbounce set has become more popular now that Core Enforcer doesn't suppress abilities on the switch. It should also be noted that the Misty Surge Dialga set is also quite good, being immune to TSpikes allows Dialga and its team to not care about TSpikes at all. Misty Surge Dialga is also a decent check to PH Regigigas, PH Xerneas (assuming no Earth Power), and to some extent Specs Surge Mmy.

- Pdon <Red Orb> (Intim, DL, Misty) -> (DL, Misty/Grassy/Electric, Illusion): People are really sleeping on the Illusion Pdon set, but it is imo the best pre-primal ability for Pdon atm (especially for offense teams). Illusion, even though it doesn't really do a good job at bluffing a different mon due to the instant Primal Reversion effect which reveals DesoLand, does still make Pdon Improof for the first time that it comes in. The Illusion can not be broken by taking damage either because of Primal Reversion, which basically allows offense teams to use Pdon as a one-time setup sweeper that comes in, sets up, puts a huge dent in the opponents team without the fear of getting Impostered, and then dies to allow another team member to come in and clean up. I would personally place Illusion in the first slot but that is probably not a realistic expectation to have, so I'll settle with the third slot.

- Yveltal (Unaware, PH, Regen) -> (Unaware, Regen, PH): I honestly haven't even seen PH Yveltal for such a long time, and I don't really think it's as good as the other two sets either. I'd personally place the RegenVest set in the first slot and Unaware in the second slot, but it's too close to call tbh.

- Chansey (FC): B to A- or A rank: FC Chansey is a really underrated mon that is way more viable than the VR depicts. It is probably the only mon that can reliably wall ALL of the common -Ate sets, including even the Specs Mega Ray set to a good extent. In addition, it can reliably wall the common Normalize Mega Gengar set with Topsy-Turvy and many Mmy sets including Sheer Force and to some extent, Contrary. It could even wall PH Xerneas with Topsy-Turvy if it is healthy enough. All around, FC Chansey is something that players could use as a blanket check to a good portion of the entire meta without regretting it.

- Ultra Necrozma: B to C rank: I really don't have much respect for this mon, and I certainly don't think it should have the same viability as mons such as Kyub and Mega Sceptile. Imo it should drop to C rank.

- Mega Lati@s: C to D rank: As a result of the previous change, the Lati twins should drop to D rank because of the change in Ultra Necrozma's VR.

- Mega Slowbro (Soundproof, FC, Regen) -> (FC, Prankster, Soundproof): C to B rank: Mega Slowbro has become much more viable after usum since it has the new purpose of walling Mmx. The FC set additionally walls Pdon and Regigigas and many other physical wallbreakers such as CB Mega Ray and Kyub, while the Prankster set can wall many BellyBurden and Smash sets from Mmx, Mega Lucario, and even Kartana to some extent.

- Cresselia (Prankster, Regen) -> (Regen, Prankster): C to B- rank: Another mon that has become more viable thanks to Mmx, the RegenVest set does a very good job at walling both Mmx and Mmy. This mon isn't really too viable outside of that one set, hence the B- rank instead of B.

- Mega Sableye (FC, Regen, Prankster): Unranked to B rank: Mega Sableye owes its viability to Mmx for the most part, but is definitely a very viable mon to use in the current meta. Thanks to its unique typing, it is immune to both of Mmx's STABs and can wall it very well. It also has a base Speed of 20, which is one of the lowest in the entire game, allowing it to underspeed all of the walls in the metagame (with the exception of Stakataka). It is also a very viable option for walling Regigigas, and can serve as one of the best spinblockers in the game.

- Mega Lucario (Unburden, Steelworker/TC): Unranked to C rank: I was a bit surprised that Mega Lucario wasn't even on the VR, but imo it does deserve a spot next to Mega Blaze and below Kartana, hence the C ranking.

- Blacephalon (Magic Guard, Adapt): Unranked to C or D rank: This is a mon that at the start of usum, I had little to no respect for. But after testing around a bit, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't really as bad as it might look. Blacephalon has this huge niche over Mega Gengar in the wallbreaking department, being able to 2HKO many of the meta's popular walls with sets such as LO MGuard and Specs Adapt. Coupled with the right partners, this mon can truly shine and hopefully change the minds of others as well. I had so much fun with this mon that I'd even recommend Kris to feature it in the next BH CLC, whenever that may be.
 
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Thought I'd make a few comments about this
Here's some of my opinions on the current VR:

- Mega Gyarados: A to B rank: With the usage of Mmx increasing, Unaware Mega Gyarados has become way less viable but is still useful as a stop to Specs Surge Mmy and Mega Gengar with its RegenVest set. I'd even go as far as saying the offensive Mega Gyarados sets (such as offensive PH, Smash, and CB sets) are becoming as popular as the defensive ones atm, which warrants the change to B rank even further since Mega Ttar has the better offensive capabilities for the most part.

I don't think Mega Gyarados should drop down to B rank, I think it should go down to A- if it were to drop though since anything that isn't MMX can still have a tough time taking it out depending on the set.

- Pdon <Red Orb> (Intim, DL, Misty) -> (DL, Misty/Grassy/Electric, Illusion): People are really sleeping on the Illusion Pdon set, but it is imo the best pre-primal ability for Pdon atm (especially for offense teams). Illusion, even though it doesn't really do a good job at bluffing a different mon due to the instant Primal Reversion effect which reveals DesoLand, does still make Pdon Improof for the first time that it comes in. The Illusion can not be broken by taking damage either because of Primal Reversion, which basically allows offense teams to use Pdon as a one-time setup sweeper that comes in, sets up, puts a huge dent in the opponents team without the fear of getting Impostered, and then dies to allow another team member to come in and clean up. I would personally place Illusion in the first slot but that is probably not a realistic expectation to have, so I'll settle with the third slot.

FINALLY SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME ON THIS! I've mentioned it a few times before and if people can use belly drum sets then I see no reason why this wouldn't work

- Mega Sableye (FC, Regen, Prankster): Unranked to B rank: Mega Sableye owes its viability to Mmx for the most part, but is definitely a very viable mon to use in the current meta. Thanks to its unique typing, it is immune to both of Mmx's STABs and can wall it very well. It also has a base Speed of 20, which is one of the lowest in the entire game, allowing it to underspeed all of the walls in the metagame (with the exception of Stakataka). It is also a very viable option for walling Regigigas, and can serve as one of the best spinblockers in the game.

Still cries whenever a Sunsteel Strike or a special move comes out. B- at most, wouldn't place it higher than my boy KyuW.

- Blacephalon (Magic Guard, Adapt): Unranked to C rank: This is a mon that at the start of usum, I had little to no respect for. But after testing around a bit, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't really as bad as it might look. Blacephalon has this huge niche over Mega Gengar in the wallbreaking department, being able to 2HKO many of the meta's popular walls with sets such as LO MGuard and Specs Adapt. Coupled with the right partners, this mon can truly shine and hopefully change the minds of others as well. I had so much fun with this mon that I'd even recommend Kris to feature it in the next BH CLC, whenever that may be.

Add Sheer Force, every fire move it wants gets boosted by sheer force and it doesn't exactly mind the Life Orb damage when using Moongeist Beam if it should run it over Shadow Ball since it is so frail to begin with
 

morogrim

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Thought I'd make a few comments about this
  • RegenVest Sableye can easily scout for Sunsteel without "crying" and doesn't mind getting hit by a special move (usually MgB in the case of Mmx) either. Additionally, only Banded Sunsteel has a chance of 2HKOing Mega Sableye (252 Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 135-159 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO) which means that FC Mega Sableye can also easily come in on even Smash Mmx and take a +2 Sunsteel and Spectral Thief away. In essence, the only case where Mega Sableye would "cry" is 20.7% of the time against only Banded Mmx and only if the Sableye is FC... Mega Sableye definitely deserves to be higher than KyuW atm since it has a way higher impact on the meta than KyuW ever had in gen 7.
  • SF Blacephalon is strictly outclassed by MGuard as LO + Mind Blown/MgB on the MGuard set are superior to LO + Searing Shot/MgB for the SF set. For MgB, the MGuard set suffers no recoil while the SF set would which makes MGuard superior (the MG set also takes no hazard damage either which is an added bonus). As for the Fire move, Mind Blown + MGuard has a higher damage output than Searing Shot + SF since Mind Blown has a BP of 150 while Searing Shot has an effective BP of 130 with SF. As for Blue Flare, we have to also take into consideration the 85% acc which means it has an effective BP of 110.5 which becomes an effective BP of 143.65 after SF, still being weaker on average when compared to MGuard.
  • As for Mega Gyarados, I definitely don't agree with "since anything that isn't MMX can still have a tough time taking it out depending on the set." The reason for this is that in the current meta, most of the setup sweepers "that aren't Mmx" still are able to beat Mega Gyarados; Contrary users have Fleur Cannon and BellyBurden Kartana has Grass coverage. The only sweepers that Mega Gyarados walls decently well are the mons that were popular before usum and aren't too common now (sets such as Simple/Unburden/Dazzling Smash Mega Ttar/Gyarados come to mind). On the other hand, sets such as Triage Mega Ray and Contrary Mega Ray are also walled by Primal Ogre so those don't count towards making Unaware Mega Gyarados more viable. In conclusion, the only reason Mega Gyarados was popular before was because Unaware Ogre couldn't wall sets such as Smash Mega Ttar. With the decline in the usage of those sets, Primal Ogre becomes a more all-around viable option compared to Mega Gyarados as an Unaware user. In the current meta, Mega Gyarados is basically an inferior Primal Kyogre when it comes to using Unaware. Additionally, when we look at the other sets for Mega Gyarados we can see a similar pattern; the offensive sets are for the most part outclassed by Mega Ttar, and the RegenVest set is for the most part outclassed by Yveltal (due to the fact that +2 Secret Sword from Mega Gengar/Mmy for example can OHKO Mega Gyarados but not Yveltal). After considering all of this, we can come to the conclusion that Mega Gyarados is mostly outclassed by other mons depending on the set and that Mega Gyarados is mostly used for its niche typing in very specific circumstances.
 
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Here's some of my opinions on the current VR:

- Pdon <Red Orb> (Intim, DL, Misty) -> (DL, Misty/Grassy/Electric, Illusion): People are really sleeping on the Illusion Pdon set, but it is imo the best pre-primal ability for Pdon atm (especially for offense teams). Illusion, even though it doesn't really do a good job at bluffing a different mon due to the instant Primal Reversion effect which reveals DesoLand, does still make Pdon Improof for the first time that it comes in. The Illusion can not be broken by taking damage either because of Primal Reversion, which basically allows offense teams to use Pdon as a one-time setup sweeper that comes in, sets up, puts a huge dent in the opponents team without the fear of getting Impostered, and then dies to allow another team member to come in and clean up. I would personally place Illusion in the first slot but that is probably not a realistic expectation to have, so I'll settle with the third slot.

- Blacephalon (Magic Guard, Adapt): Unranked to C rank: This is a mon that at the start of usum, I had little to no respect for. But after testing around a bit, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't really as bad as it might look. Blacephalon has this huge niche over Mega Gengar in the wallbreaking department, being able to 2HKO many of the meta's popular walls with sets such as LO MGuard and Specs Adapt. Coupled with the right partners, this mon can truly shine and hopefully change the minds of others as well. I had so much fun with this mon that I'd even recommend Kris to feature it in the next BH CLC, whenever that may be.
Agree with these, although not sure about the specifics for Blacephalon's rank. Not much experience with Adaptability, but Blacephalon can easily 2hko some of the more common ghost switchins such as Yveltal and Audino with Mind Blown on sets like Magic Guard LO. Also have used Illusion Pdon on a 5 pdon, 1 gira team before USUM and although the meta has changed, I think the Illusion pdon can be very effective, especially against offense teams, as its bulk allows it to live at least one hit from several offensive pokemon, just like Regigigas (one of the reasons for its ban, of course).
 
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Right now I want to talk about someone you may not expect - Marowak.
"Marowak is in PU, why out of every other mon Marowak?" You may be asking, but as of now Marowak with the right ability, item, and stats has without a doubt the HIGHEST attack stat in the game, having the potential to sweep without even setting up. Let me show you the Pokemon in question and the set I use:

Kanga Jr (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Crush Claw
- King's Shield
- Shadow Bone

For those who do not want to do the math, I did it for you. Mewtwo X, who has the highest attack, has a total of 526 Attack with the best scenario (max EV/IV's, best nature, etc). Take my Marowak. For those who don't know, The thick club doubles the attack of its holder if it is a Cubone or Marowak (that checks out since we are talking about Marowak). Then there is adaptability: an ability where STAB moves have 2x the power. Without any items or abilities, Marowak has a 284 Attack best scenario, nothing special. With the Thick Club alone, that turns into a 568 Attack Stat. Already that is higher than Mewtwo X, top it off with adaptability and that is now an 1136 attack stat (if you decide to use thousand arrows).

This thing belongs in either the A or B tier. Even with its broken attack and sweeping potential, it is flawed by its survivability if it does not go first. However, if coupled with setting up properly (ex, evoboost, cosmic power, automize, dragon dance, any sort of status moves), it is extremely difficult to stop.
 

morogrim

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Right now I want to talk about someone you may not expect - Marowak.
"Marowak is in PU, why out of every other mon Marowak?" You may be asking, but as of now Marowak with the right ability, item, and stats has without a doubt the HIGHEST attack stat in the game, having the potential to sweep without even setting up. Let me show you the Pokemon in question and the set I use:

Kanga Jr (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Crush Claw
- King's Shield
- Shadow Bone

For those who do not want to do the math, I did it for you. Mewtwo X, who has the highest attack, has a total of 526 Attack with the best scenario (max EV/IV's, best nature, etc). Take my Marowak. For those who don't know, The thick club doubles the attack of its holder if it is a Cubone or Marowak (that checks out since we are talking about Marowak). Then there is adaptability: an ability where STAB moves have 2x the power. Without any items or abilities, Marowak has a 284 Attack best scenario, nothing special. With the Thick Club alone, that turns into a 568 Attack Stat. Already that is higher than Mewtwo X, top it off with adaptability and that is now an 1136 attack stat (if you decide to use thousand arrows).

This thing belongs in either the A or B tier. Even with its broken attack and sweeping potential, it is flawed by its survivability if it does not go first. However, if coupled with setting up properly (ex, evoboost, cosmic power, automize, dragon dance, any sort of status moves), it is extremely difficult to stop.
You do realize that a mon like Mmx could also run an item such as Choice Band and have an ability such as Adapt, causing it to have way higher power than even Marowak right?

Also, as a complete side note, Adapt causes your STAB moves to do x2 damage instead of the regular x1.5. This means that having Adapt causes your STABs to be boosted by 2/1.5 which is a x1.33 boost, a slightly better LO for your STAB moves. Basically, Adapt doesn't double your power, it boosts the STABs by x1.33.
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
You do realize that a mon like Mmx could also run an item such as Choice Band and have an ability such as Adapt, causing it to have way higher power than even Marowak right?

Also, as a complete side note, Adapt causes your STAB moves to do x2 damage instead of the regular x1.5. This means that having Adapt causes your STABs to be boosted by 2/1.5 which is a x1.33 boost, a slightly better LO for your STAB moves. Basically, Adapt doesn't double your power, it boosts the STABs by x1.33.
I think Marowak-Alola has its place, considering that Primal-Groudon is banned, and Blaziken-Mega is frail.

Now that the best Fire type has to use Red Orb to even be a Fire type, Marowak-Alola can be used with V-Create and Copycat.

I think regular Marowak isn’t ideal, as a regular Groudon doesn’t need Red Orb, it could hold Choice Band as can Garchomp-Mega, and Swampert-Mega.

No real offensive grounds are used, usually Zygarde Complete is the only common ground I see.

Anyways, some could argue if you have to use a Fire type, don’t bother with Marowak-Alola, use a bulkier one like Magic Guard Ho-Oh, or a Special Attacker like Blacephalon for the same STAB, with better effects (Moongeist Beam breaks Sturdy, Unaware, etc.)

But Marowak-Alola has a unique niche: Prankster + V-Create, Copycat, Shadow Force, and a filler move such as Destiny Bond to fulfill Prankster’s use, or a Coverage move for the Dark type switch ins.

Remember, V-Create lowers speed so you can take advantage of Destiny Bond and Prankster without Lagging Tail, and it also lowers Defenses so your can be sure that when you Destiny Bond you will Be KOed (otherwise if you survive then your foe may predict around it or use Taunt).

Point is, I don’t know if it deserves a Rank, but it has a use/niche in some area. I only really use it for my Assist team, but by using STAB Shadow Force, V-Create, and Prankster Copycat it can do something no other mon can do. Although, I guess you could argue Contrary Superpower, V-Create Blaziken or even MMX makes better use of V-Create...

But the niche is a strong Shadow Force with Copycat complimenting the other moves.

TLDR: He tried to justify the wrong Marowak.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
One Knock Off sends Marowak back into PU, and it isn't fast enough to land its first attack before the opponent can use Knock Off.
Yes, that’s true for anything that relies on an item to be useful.

However, if Marowak is damaged, such as a couple Stealth Rock switch-ins, and as Knock-Off is super effective, it can do 1 thing:

Prankster Destiny Bond, and take the foe with it.
Suddenly it becomes dicey, willing to risk losing your Pokémon just to remove its item?

Also, V-Create has STAB, which makes even modest attack stats hit pretty decently.

252+ Atk Marowak-Alola V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 162-192 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Throw in Prankster Copycat (having gone second in the prior turn using V-Create) allows it to simply V-Create again, and then it does 72.8-86.4% after the Knock Off and before Arceus can move the next turn.
 
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Marowak-A likely has a niche in being a strong Prankocat V-Create spammer, probably the hardest hitting, though I'd agree it doesn't really fit in the VR, particularly because its incredibly dependent on its item and is heavily outclassed without it, despite having an otherwise interesting typing.

Normal Marowak though has far too many drawbacks with its only redeemning qualities are Thick Club and slow speed for pivoting. Its bulk is too low, even physically despite 110 base defense thanks to base 60 HP, it's attack stat is barely usable if it loses its item, and it can't go mixed at all. Marowak's best niche would be Thick Club Imposter, but Light Ball Imposter Pikachu and Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey/Blissey outclass it for that role.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I have to say that a set I have been using recently to counter MMX is Eviolite Doublade. I give it Fur Coat, which allows it to survive a V-Create from Marowak-Alola with its Thick Club, and even from Groudon-Primal in harsh sunlight after Stealth Rocks! Keep in mind that since I use Sassy Nature, (-Spe, +SpD), that this doesn’t even include a Defensive Nature.

I propose at least C, because it is more useful than a niche Muk-Alola and can come in to Block Rapid Spin, Contrarian Superpower, and numerous resistances thanks to its Steel Typing, while being Immune to Toxic.

Most powerful STAB Moves Vs Neutral Defense Nature:
252 Atk Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade in Harsh Sunshine: 222-264 (68.9 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 186-218 (57.7 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 290-344 (90 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Here are calculations after Knock Off to demonstrate its survivability:
252 Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Doublade: 234-276 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Doublade: 276-326 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
On Doublade’s Offense with a neutral nature:
252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 206-246 (49.5 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

VS Contrary MMX, after 1 Superpower:

+1 252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 308-366 (74 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marshadow: 240-284 (62.5 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marowak-Alola: 194-230 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gengar-Mega: 240-284 (74 - 87.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 258-306 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Deoxys-Speed: 222-264 (73 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Soectral Thief
- Shore Up
- Circle Throw
- Spikes

I basically switch him in on a Normal, or Fighting set up foe. And use Circle Throw if it’s a Regigas or other Normal Types, and Spectral Thief if it is a Fighting Type such as Contrary Mewtwo, etc. to steal the boosts.
Since it can survive high Damage STAB V-Creates, it can handle it, and won’t fear Imposter’s Spectral Thief because it has 1,197 Defense.

Spikes pairs well with Circle Throw, and using a racks up passive damage. Circle Throw is to Imposterproof, while a -Speed is to ensure less foes can underspeed you to avoid Core Enforcer Activating.

I love the fact that it resists both Photon Geyser and Sunsteel Strike.

Doublade is anti-Meta; it stops things, and sets up Spikes when the foe cannot stop it. I use a Magic Bouncer for a teammate to stop Imposters from using Spikes.
 
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The biggest problem with Duoblade is it has really atrocious special bulk. It's a good physical wall with Evolite, but a bad special wall regardless, which leads to unfortunate calculations like these.

252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 216-256 (67 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 127-150 (39.4 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Galvanize Xurkitree Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 247-292 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I picked those three Pokemon at semi-random (I wanted a SE coverage, resisted STAB, and neutral STAB) and they're all unboosted and assume Eviolite is intact, which it may or may not be. Adding move/item/terrain boosts or removing Eviolite makes Doublade's life incredibly difficult as a wall. Either way, its a bit too lop-sided, notably has lower base special bulk than Aegisblade, who's considered frail, and can't really cover its other end well. It's a similar problem Mega-Aggron and Regirock have, who are good on very select teams but not in general. Duoblade is probably usable on certain teams as well, but I think it'd be too niche for the VR.

If you really want to try to get it on the VR though, I STRONGLY suggest getting a couple of replays of it being used against meta-defining threats, both in its intended role and where it's forced into having to deal with junk like Psy Surge Ytwo.
 
2 things:

1) We'd just like to clarify that the abilities listed in the VR are simply there for players to get a grasp on what it is Pokemon do in BH to deserve a certain rank, not the be-all and end-all of sets. If a certain ability isn't listed it is not because we don't think that set is good enough to warrant mentioning or anything like that. Treat is as additional information rather than a second, 'mini-VR'. While it's great that lots of VR discussion is taking place please direct your attention to the Pokemon themselves rather than the abilities.

2) We're looking at updating sample teams very soon, likely sometime next week. For those who have yet to submit their teams, consider this a last-minute reminder that submissions are still open.

That's all.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Viability Rankings Update #5:

Time for another Viability Rankings update! The BHC staff has considered and reviewed all the current discussion in the previous pages in order to come up with a nomination slate in which we all gathered our opinions on on this doc, Mamp was unfortunately unable to participate:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HPtTnkf4U89nt3T_fWelOxJKzwJ7nVYVqRCq1HadzsI/edit?usp=sharing

Results:
  • Mewtwo-Mega X: A+ -> S
  • Mega Gyarados: A -> A-
  • Arceus: B+ -> B
  • Dialga: B+ -> A-
  • Chansey: B -> B+
  • Necrozma-Ultra: B -> B-
  • Kartana: B- -> B
  • Cresselia: C -> B-
  • Mega Slowbro: C -> B-
  • Mega Lati@s: C -> D
  • Mega Sableye: UR -> C
  • Mega Lucario: UR -> D
  • Blacephalon: UR -> D
We will be revising the sample teams and other resources as well so stay tuned!
 

lepton

im fragile, but not that fragile
is a Tiering Contributor
A really good offensive typing with access to great stab moves like moongeist, its also really strong against balance that lacks non-imposter chansey as it can break through common defensive cores like gira + steel. its not the best as it can be walled by some pogre sets, zygod (not sure though), and fc chansey. Commonly runs smthn like moongeist - fire stab - coverage (i run moonblast) - trick/uturn/volt switch with adapt or sheer force (correct me if I'm wrong though, this is just what i see usually)
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
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can we unrank deoxys s

this mon technically isn't outclassed in the role of a suicide lead, but suicide leads in general are just awful. yeah it can get hazards once and sleep something, but there really aren't situations where it would actually be worth the team slot.

if you want a mon that reliably sets hazards to take care of shed teams, you can run a hazard on an offensive mon. these actually get up hazards multiple times in a game and put in work in matchups where their hazards are ineffective. on the other hand, deo s is extremely one dimensional in its role. there's simply no reason to use it anymore.
 
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As I've said since Gen V, people using Deo-S as merely a suicide hazard lead are using it wrong. Yeah, sure, the meta isn't kind to it right now, definitely a big drop since its glory days of being 80% of the lead meta-game by itself, but it's still the fastest thing in the game. A good Deo-S won't just set hazards once, they might not even carry hazard moves at all, and they may not make their appearance at the start of the match. A good Deo-S will annoy the heck out of you, such as using Spore on your Specs Surge Ytwo before it can do a thing, Prankster Taunting your Registeel before it can Prankster heal, Mold Breaking annoying crap past your Magic Bouncer, fast pivoting away before you can touch it because priority is rare, and threatening everything un-speed-boosted with Destiny Bond, among others.

It's a bit of a niche Pokemon in the current meta, but its a very flexible niche Pokemon since it can run nearly any support set under the sun. Its only big drawbacks are it can't do the ever popular slow pivot or abuse Core Enforcer. It's also not particularly bulky either.
 

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