Balanced Hackmons "Chatter" vote

Should Chatter be banned from Balanced Hackmons?

  • Yes

    Votes: 82 79.6%
  • No

    Votes: 21 20.4%

  • Total voters
    103
  • Poll closed .
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Ok I get that it has many advantages (damage + 100% confusion, goes through sub, gale wings use), but for the people arguing that it should be banned because of luck, I have to disagree.

If we banned everything because of luck:
- Confusion in general would be banned
- Paralysis : banned
- Attract : banned
- Critical hits : banned
- Every move would always hit
- Secondary Effects of moves : banned
- Speed ties : wouldn't happen
- the list goes on

I voted for no ban. I believe it's a good move, but it's not good enough to be banned. I've never really had a problem with it and I don't run soundproof, own tempo, shield dust e.t.c.
If we banned all those things, we may as well play chess lol
 
Ok I get that it has many advantages (damage + 100% confusion, goes through sub, gale wings use), but for the people arguing that it should be banned because of luck, I have to disagree.

If we banned everything because of luck:
- Confusion in general would be banned
- Paralysis : banned
- Attract : banned
- Critical hits : banned
- Every move would always hit
- Secondary Effects of moves : banned
- Speed ties : wouldn't happen
- the list goes on

I voted for no ban. I believe it's a good move, but it's not good enough to be banned. I've never really had a problem with it and I don't run soundproof, own tempo, shield dust e.t.c.
That's because it's being suspected soon. Assist had quite some time and it became cancerous.
 
Ok I get that it has many advantages (damage + 100% confusion, goes through sub, gale wings use), but for the people arguing that it should be banned because of luck, I have to disagree.

If we banned everything because of luck:
- Confusion in general would be banned
- Paralysis : banned
- Attract : banned
- Critical hits : banned
- Every move would always hit
- Secondary Effects of moves : banned
- Speed ties : wouldn't happen
- the list goes on

I voted for no ban. I believe it's a good move, but it's not good enough to be banned. I've never really had a problem with it and I don't run soundproof, own tempo, shield dust e.t.c.

That's quite a bit of slippery-slope logic. Keep in mind that even both official Smogon and Nintendo metagames allow for a degree of luck. Enough, in fact, that you can try to make luck-based teams, but not so much that they are reliable, let alone a dominant force in the metagame. The difference here is Chatter can reliably devolve any match into a dice rolling contest, similar to evasion, where the winner is determined not by skill nor strategy, but rather by who rolled better dice. Not to mention it can reliably get past its checks whether it be with hax, boosting, coverage, or Mold Breaker.

I think the next closest unbanned strategy we have to haxy play is Swagplay. And that one isn't banned because Balanced Hackmons is a naturally hostile environment to Swagplay. Trust me on that, I've tried on a few occasions to run Swagplay and all it really does is reliably beat new players.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Ok I get that it has many advantages (damage + 100% confusion, goes through sub, gale wings use), but for the people arguing that it should be banned because of luck, I have to disagree.

If we banned everything because of luck:
- Confusion in general would be banned
- Paralysis : banned
- Attract : banned
- Critical hits : banned
- Every move would always hit
- Secondary Effects of moves : banned
- Speed ties : wouldn't happen
- the list goes on

I voted for no ban. I believe it's a good move, but it's not good enough to be banned. I've never really had a problem with it and I don't run soundproof, own tempo, shield dust e.t.c.
i understand this trail of thought, and i agree with the concept of being against banning everything luck based. but at the same time, that's not the sole reason chatter is being suspected. don't get me wrong, its a huge factor, but its not JUST the hax that's definitive. (And i'm glad you at least understand that much). its what that move is capable of doing for teams. and how well it does it. chatter separates itself from all those attacks due to its versatility. chatter is not just some "gimmicky hax attack" its actually a viable move even without confusion (not AMAZING at that, but its still more viable then dpunch without no guard, and teeter dance).

to be honest, it still kinda baffles me on WHY chatter is as scary as it is. what separates itself from other hax based moves. and i think i just finally solved it. its not JUST a hax based move. its a unrestricted, potential priority, great coverage, great utility, decent attack (15 off from extremespeed, which isnt even bad). what makes chatter scary isn't JUST the hax. or what the hax can do, its that this move, is capable of outspeeding, outpowering, and outlasting its counters and checks. and can use its very own checks and counters, as setup fodder. and can easily set up on every poke in the game, meanwhile countering it is as simple as running one ability, that albeit has run its course on the current meta, is still just as viable as it was before:soundproof. what separates itself from noguard, is that noguard dpunch is blocked by ghost types, and on top of that, is restricted to specific pokemon due to its crappy accuracy and otherwise reliance on noguard. its almost predictable on what the poke is going to do once it unleashes it, chatter doesn't have that. a random ph kyogre on your opponents team could run it, and you would never know until it was too late. it separates itself from teeter dance because chatter actually has merit outside of "confusing stuff" chatter can actually KO pokes without confusion, it doesnt waste a offensive moveslot by using it, and therefore, gives it less potential counters in the meta, any poke can run teeter dance, but when you think about it, unlike chatter, where you get some "chip" damage in, teeter almost wastes a turn just by using it. like using trick room, compared to if there was an actual move that summons trick room upon hitting someone with it. one wastes a turn to use, and one basically can still threaten teams by using it, which one would you consider? pretty self explanatory. now imagine that with hax instead of trick room. and THAT is why its being suspected. which is why i voted ban.

aaaand from now on i will no longer post my opinions on ban/nobans on bh suspects.more trouble then its worth. so have fun. lool.
 
I voted yes to banning Chatter not because its luck based, but because it can easily bypass its checks and is the only move in the game that is easily splashable that has a 100% chance to cause status. Other then Zap Cannon and Dynamicpunch, no other moves exist that can entirely cause an opponent to skip a turn and do damage at the exact same time. Unlike Swagger and Teeter Dance, Chatter does not actually rely on RNG to do damage. Since it is an attacking move, it can be boosted to become insanely more powerful. And thanks to Gale Wings, it can be given pirority. Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch eat up an Ability slot, which matters greatly as it limits the number of sets that can be run with it. Chatter can be run on any given set and be a reliable source of damage regardless of whether or not your opponent hurts itself in Confusion. I believe that the primary reason for banning Chatter is that it is a damaging move that can be given pirority, is splashable, and can 100% cause a status that may or may not prevent the opponents Pokemon from moving.
 
Basically, chatter will reduce the strategy component, by either forcing your team to run troublesome pokemon, or reducing the game to a coin toss, and it has many opportunities to be used for zero cost, and still be useful besides confusing stuff.
 
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basically the meta will be shield dust, dont like thou 50/50 + 65 damage and right now u can just slap it on,on any pokemon
 
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