Why are you suggesting to run a number of EVs that isn't 252 and isn't 0?
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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
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Read the quote and you'll figure out I mean that couldn't have been more ignorant of you in anyway. Seriously don't get defensive until you read what is being said.
I kinda like that assault vest idea. That makes me complete taunt bait though, although struggle is better than explosion. Do people even use taunt in BH? Also, I wanted to try out vestgen tentacruel with overheat and earth power. Are there better moves from gen six to replace those?
You won't see Taunt very often, but it still shows up occasionally on Prankster users. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
RegenVest Tentacruel isn't that great of an idea in the first place, but if you're going to use it, definitely don't use Overheat and Earth Power. Tagging Rumors since he was the one who mentioned it to begin with.
The standard RegenVest set is something like Nuzzle / Volt Switch / Scald / Dragon Tail though.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
yeah i fucked up and forgot the evs, sorry.
And yes that core is extremely gimmicky. Against any good player, -ate isin't the only thing keeping gengar from setting up and something else sweeping. And i run more than just -ate stuff on my users anyways, for example, i always run volt switch on kyu-w to get out in a pinch so mgar can't just trap me and ruin my life. Same for u-turn on kyu-b. and if i see a level 1 sunkern why will i go for espeed or something, especially if I assume it will be the sturdy variant; that just wastes a turn. If you baton pass into your sunkern after i bring in my -ate user i will probably volt switch or use an anti-shed move like infest if i have one, rather than wasting a turn doing near nothing using espeed. using fake out would be logical, as i could kill it next turn, but its not practical. like i said most people do pack momentum moves on -ate users, and i definitely carry stuff besides normal moves, including other things to keep this from happening.
The idea of using gengar to set up, however, is a good one. Normalize on the regular gar would be cool possibly, if you used a partial trapping move, give them normalize, then mega evolve while they still can't leave. if you had spore that could actually work nicely if your opponent isin't ready. I really can't think of a good way to do it that is reliable, however, since there will always be a problem, such as gengar's frailty, switching moves, and prediction.
Heart swap is the best sweep stopping move for my liking, since you gain defense boosts (sometimes) and it can go through subs. i always run swap on imposter chansey for this reason. It also beats stuff that normally doesn't need to worry about parting shot or topsy turvy, for example magic bounce (not with the former since parting shot phases it)
fossilmaniac use an @ sign and then their name to tag.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem-W Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 161-190 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
?
252+ SpA Sniper Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield on a critical hit: 174-205 (53.7 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
??????
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
People do use Prankster Taunt in BH. Also, don't run Tentacruel. Kyogre is better. Over the 2 moves you asked about, I would run Nuzzle + Volt Switch. Your STAB should be Scald or Steam Eruption, for PP or Power respectively. Your last move can be Dragon Tail or a coverage move like Moonblast.
Tentacruel is viable and a bit of a side-project I'm working on. Base 100 speed means it can outrun a lot of things, nice if you want a fast Regenvester over a slow one, and it has great special bulk combined with some key resistances. Observe...
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Xerneas Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 186-220 (46 - 54.4%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Xerneas Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 105-123 (28.8 - 33.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
And for fairness, against a common resistance...
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem-W Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 114-134 (28.2 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem-W Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 127-150 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Against shared resistances, the bulk is a little worse, but Tentacruel is still safely out of 2HKO range from one of the nastiest special attacks in the tier. And the key thing is that Xern calc, which is something that'd give Kyogre trouble. Really, the draw here is Tentacruel's resistances from its Poison-typing, which lets it resist Fairy, Poison (some Gengar sets), and Fighting while having a Grass neutrality (handy against Leaf Storm Contrary, which is sometimes a thing specifically to piss off opposing Kyogre). Psychic weakness kind of stinks, but Kyogre can't take Psystrikes well at all either, so the only real loss is to Psycho Boost. A weakness to Earth Power also is kind of meh, but most Ground is physical anyway, which again, Kyogre isn't too fond of either.
The standard Scald/Volt Switch/Coverage or Nuzzle or Dtail or Spin/Repeat slot 3 set AV Kyo runs works pretty well, though I've been trying some other things with it too. Sludge Wave threatens opposing Xern and other, less common fairies rather well. Acid Spray is fun and great for forcing a switch. On a non-AV set, perfectly accurate Toxic is fun and often unexpected. And apparently it can hit through stuff like Shadow Force, though the only team I'm aware of that'd be useful against is Flint's AssistArrowave team.
If you have a Fairy weakness on a team, I recommend giving it a shot. Its surprising at how well it can take hits. Just don't try to run an offensive set on it. Tentacruel's power, while decent in standard, is a bit lacking for offensive roles, so keep it relegated to defense and support.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Xerneas Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 186-220 (46 - 54.4%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Xerneas Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 105-123 (28.8 - 33.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
And for fairness, against a common resistance...
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem-W Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 114-134 (28.2 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem-W Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 127-150 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Against shared resistances, the bulk is a little worse, but Tentacruel is still safely out of 2HKO range from one of the nastiest special attacks in the tier. And the key thing is that Xern calc, which is something that'd give Kyogre trouble. Really, the draw here is Tentacruel's resistances from its Poison-typing, which lets it resist Fairy, Poison (some Gengar sets), and Fighting while having a Grass neutrality (handy against Leaf Storm Contrary, which is sometimes a thing specifically to piss off opposing Kyogre). Psychic weakness kind of stinks, but Kyogre can't take Psystrikes well at all either, so the only real loss is to Psycho Boost. A weakness to Earth Power also is kind of meh, but most Ground is physical anyway, which again, Kyogre isn't too fond of either.
The standard Scald/Volt Switch/Coverage or Nuzzle or Dtail or Spin/Repeat slot 3 set AV Kyo runs works pretty well, though I've been trying some other things with it too. Sludge Wave threatens opposing Xern and other, less common fairies rather well. Acid Spray is fun and great for forcing a switch. On a non-AV set, perfectly accurate Toxic is fun and often unexpected. And apparently it can hit through stuff like Shadow Force, though the only team I'm aware of that'd be useful against is Flint's AssistArrowave team.
If you have a Fairy weakness on a team, I recommend giving it a shot. Its surprising at how well it can take hits. Just don't try to run an offensive set on it. Tentacruel's power, while decent in standard, is a bit lacking for offensive roles, so keep it relegated to defense and support.
Thanks for the help guys. After using Klutz Deoxys-S Trick Assault Vest, (thanks for the suggestion Uselesscrab) I won my next match by forfeit. I had an idea though. What if I ran Prankster with choice scarf instead? That guarantees I get the first move with trick, and if they don't attack, then they can't really do anything. I know this isn't as effective if they use spikes, but if they use SR or screens they could work.
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Prank Scarf Trick was amazing when Moldy Deo-S was the lead on like 70% of the teams in BH. Most of them carried Spore + Lum Berry, so you could Trick the Scarf, shrug off the sleep move with their Lum Berry, and then nail them with Spore while they sit there thinking they can outspeed you now.
That strat is less reliable now since leads are much more diverse, though most leads would dislike getting a Scarf.
That strat is less reliable now since leads are much more diverse, though most leads would dislike getting a Scarf.
Shedinja w/ safeguard & sturdy
Speaks for itself
Entrainment + Normalize Mega Gengar
as it is a ghost type, with 130 speed, ill explain to u some logs
Turn 1: Gengar used Entrainment! Slaking gained Normalize.
Turn 2: Slaking used Earthquake! It doesn't effect Gengar..
this forces the target to switch out, allowing the user to set up hazards, such as stealth rocks + spikes
w/ sticky knot, only thing i believe that counters this is a Prankster Will-O-Wisp or something that outspeeds that 130 timid :D
however i should say it could be stopped by scarfed users, but in balanced hackmons, scarf is never used
we have much better alternatives
Speaks for itself
Entrainment + Normalize Mega Gengar
as it is a ghost type, with 130 speed, ill explain to u some logs
Turn 1: Gengar used Entrainment! Slaking gained Normalize.
Turn 2: Slaking used Earthquake! It doesn't effect Gengar..
this forces the target to switch out, allowing the user to set up hazards, such as stealth rocks + spikes
w/ sticky knot, only thing i believe that counters this is a Prankster Will-O-Wisp or something that outspeeds that 130 timid :D
however i should say it could be stopped by scarfed users, but in balanced hackmons, scarf is never used
we have much better alternatives
Why did you make a general shitpost in like 3 subforums lol.
On a separate note, I would sincerely reccomend developing an understanding of the metagame before suggesting bans. Both of these "broken" sets are relatively easy to counter, Shed by Entry Hazards + Phazing or moves with residual damage, and Gengar by anything that isn't just 4 attacks.
Lastly, this belongs in the Balanced Hackmons thread, not on it's own.
This is why we need OM SQSA
On a separate note, I would sincerely reccomend developing an understanding of the metagame before suggesting bans. Both of these "broken" sets are relatively easy to counter, Shed by Entry Hazards + Phazing or moves with residual damage, and Gengar by anything that isn't just 4 attacks.
Lastly, this belongs in the Balanced Hackmons thread, not on it's own.
This is why we need OM SQSA
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Magma Storm
Kyurem-White @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Draco Meteor
from Kl4ng's post earlier:
Kyurem-White @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 192 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Superpower / Trick
etc. etc.
I tried the scarf idea. It worked, but not as well, especially if they switch. I also thought of maybe running mold breaker deoxys with flame orb, because I'm not attacking, and I don't have to worry about prankster spore, but I think it burns you at the end of your turn. I also thought about sleep talk, but that seemed way too risky. Also, what about running foul play on tentacruel?
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Entrainment Gengar is hard-walled by Magic Bounce. And opposing Normalize sets. You can also still inflict status and such on it as well. I think I know which Gengar set you're talking about since I ran into Entrainment + hazards + sleep Gengar last night. Once I realized its gimmick, I simply spored it with my PHer, defogged the hazards, put it back to sleep, and then it was a non-issue from there.
On Foul Play, since everything runs max bulk except when trying to be Imposter-resistant, and most good players zero out their Attack on non-physical attackers, you really want STAB on Foul Play. It's not like OU where you can OHKO 0 Attack Modest Espeon with it. Still though, it's a very nice move and can seriously punish attack boosters. An Unaware Dark-type with Foul Play can safely OHKO most SD or Belly Drum users, for example.
On Foul Play, since everything runs max bulk except when trying to be Imposter-resistant, and most good players zero out their Attack on non-physical attackers, you really want STAB on Foul Play. It's not like OU where you can OHKO 0 Attack Modest Espeon with it. Still though, it's a very nice move and can seriously punish attack boosters. An Unaware Dark-type with Foul Play can safely OHKO most SD or Belly Drum users, for example.
That's why so many special attackers don't use attack Evs or ivs. And since tentacruel would die from most physical attackers, it won't be in on something to utilize foul play.
Foul Play tends to wreck even min-Attack Mewtwo-Y, because everyone forgets that for some reason Troll Freak saw fit to gift it with 150 base attack, and only 70 defence. Though leaving Tentacruel in on a Mewtwo-Y is... a poor idea, to say the least.
I tried out Rumors tentacruel idea after having a bit of trouble with xerneas. Another advantage I found of using tentacruel instead of kyogre is the ability to instantly remove toxic spikes. Also, I think I should be using rapid spin instead of defog because defog gets rid of my hazards as well as theirs.
The thing you have to remember is that Rapid Spin can be blocked quite easily, especially by the omnipresent Giratina.
On an unrelated note, I've been seeing a lot of Minimize spam on the ladder recently. Has anyone else seen it around?
On an unrelated note, I've been seeing a lot of Minimize spam on the ladder recently. Has anyone else seen it around?
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
okay, this might sound a bit odd...but wouldnt regenvest mega venusaur be a better idea then tentacruel? i mean...it does everything tenta does...with more bulk...more offensive presence...and can spam seed flare to potentially threaten pokemon switching in...i mean, it loses some speed....and refridge/aerialate weakness...but i feel like venu would fit in most teams a bit better.
on a separate note. i want to discuss the potential of a species clause and if people would be down for having such a clause implimented. i talked to verbatim about it, and he said if i had the general consensus on it, then he had no problems with it. I feel like a species clause is something to consider into bh, i know we JUST implemented an ability clause and stuff, but i find that mega mewtwo x and y are both very powerful threats, and being able to spam a team of them and getting good results solely due to how hard it is to outspeed/outwall them is kinda unfair. there ARE things that can wall mm2x and y, but its kind of hard to do that 2 times in a row without using something very risk/reward such as shedinja, an ability clause would stop this horrible spamming, and on top of that, will diversitize the meta a bit, making mewtwo x and y more limited on teams. something else to consider, is treating mega x and y as one pokemon (base form mewtwo i mean) so its only possible to use one per team. while it would also give people reason to run more underused threats, like mega blaziken, heracross, andmega alakazam mega gardevoir. idk, i guess diversifying a meta isn't really enough reason to make such a change, but eh. its not like it would HORRIBLY dilute the meta only being able to use ONE mewtwo or ONE chansey (gives blissey a reason to run imposter lol.)
on a separate note. i want to discuss the potential of a species clause and if people would be down for having such a clause implimented. i talked to verbatim about it, and he said if i had the general consensus on it, then he had no problems with it. I feel like a species clause is something to consider into bh, i know we JUST implemented an ability clause and stuff, but i find that mega mewtwo x and y are both very powerful threats, and being able to spam a team of them and getting good results solely due to how hard it is to outspeed/outwall them is kinda unfair. there ARE things that can wall mm2x and y, but its kind of hard to do that 2 times in a row without using something very risk/reward such as shedinja, an ability clause would stop this horrible spamming, and on top of that, will diversitize the meta a bit, making mewtwo x and y more limited on teams. something else to consider, is treating mega x and y as one pokemon (base form mewtwo i mean) so its only possible to use one per team. while it would also give people reason to run more underused threats, like mega blaziken, heracross, and
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Tentacruel is weak to Electric, Psychic, and Ground but resists Water, Ice, Fairy, Poison, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting. 3 weaknesses, 8 resistances.
Venusaur is weak to Flying, Fire, Psychic, and Ice but resists Water, Grass, Fairy, Fighting, and Electric. 4 weaknesses, 5 resistances.
It's all type synergy, really, so Venusaur might fit some teams better, though Tentacruel has a better set of resistances IMO. Though as a Regenvest, Venusaur is vulnerable to Fire/Fairy coverage, which is nastier than Ground/Fairy due to moves like V-Create and Blue Flare, and being vulnerable to two -ates isn't doing it any favors. On the other hand, Megasaur does have a stronger offensive presence, so I have little doubt it has some options viable to it that Tentacruel can't do.
As for species clause, I think I've said before I'd be totally okay with it. And AFAIK, species clause works off of dex number, hence why you can only use one Rotom form in standard. So regardless, that'd likely force players to choose Xtwo or Ytwo for their teams since they share the same dex number. Plus teams spamming six of the same mon and playing "lol guess the set" gets kind of old and annoying. And beating them because you happened to have the one SE sweeper against them isn't fun either.
Also, though I'm not sure it'd happen even if we got species clause, it could let us bring back plateless, Multitypeless Arceus forms without half of everyone's team being comprised of different Arceus forms.
Venusaur is weak to Flying, Fire, Psychic, and Ice but resists Water, Grass, Fairy, Fighting, and Electric. 4 weaknesses, 5 resistances.
It's all type synergy, really, so Venusaur might fit some teams better, though Tentacruel has a better set of resistances IMO. Though as a Regenvest, Venusaur is vulnerable to Fire/Fairy coverage, which is nastier than Ground/Fairy due to moves like V-Create and Blue Flare, and being vulnerable to two -ates isn't doing it any favors. On the other hand, Megasaur does have a stronger offensive presence, so I have little doubt it has some options viable to it that Tentacruel can't do.
As for species clause, I think I've said before I'd be totally okay with it. And AFAIK, species clause works off of dex number, hence why you can only use one Rotom form in standard. So regardless, that'd likely force players to choose Xtwo or Ytwo for their teams since they share the same dex number. Plus teams spamming six of the same mon and playing "lol guess the set" gets kind of old and annoying. And beating them because you happened to have the one SE sweeper against them isn't fun either.
Also, though I'm not sure it'd happen even if we got species clause, it could let us bring back plateless, Multitypeless Arceus forms without half of everyone's team being comprised of different Arceus forms.
I got swept by a substitute drapion that passed evasion boosts from minimize and cosmic power to a leech seed aqua ring toxic ingrain shuckle.
On other notes, regenvest tentacruel combined with klutz vest deoxys were very helpful in the match I just had. I find that tentacruel is more handy to my team than kyogre, as it helps negate fairy weakness as well as removing toxic spikes. Also, I learned I have 2 imposter counters, as my shedinja counters imposters. Am I allowed to post a link to the fight or not?
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Stealth rock kyube is a good lead although I don't personally use it because the only status move i run on it is king's shield for imposter. It is a terrific pivot so I really don't see a reason not to run it even though I don't.