Ladder Balanced Hackmons

AWailOfATail

viva la darmz
Adrian Marin once tricked me into believing he was a new player. That was the most painful battle I ever had.
Just look at his "Information" page

i want 2 be de pokmon masturz but i dont no hao plai 2 be gud pokmon tech me hao plai zo dat i beet gem lid3r den becum mastur of de pokmon i tink legend liek regigigigigiggas an articeno sould be ban cuz legend legend iz ver strkn i dun no y legend iz alow wi nid 2 ban de legend also wat iz a metgam i dun no wat dat iz

In other news, I've found Fur Coat Kyogre-Primal to be pretty legit
Most people expect it to be RegenVest but get really confused when Rayquaza doesn't murder it
 
My timing's been off, I think the appropriate time to hold the suspect test will be this coming weekend. It is important to me that no mon be explicitly banned from BH, and I'd be willing to look at harsher measures towards the iates if that were to allow that. If you have any concerns regarding the future of the metagame following the upcoming vote, suggestions for poll options that will adequately address the current issue (i.e., -ate clause), or opinions on just how broken/unbroken you think current pokemon are based on the -iates, please post.

Ah, gotcha. I don't know how you or the rest of the BH community feels about complex bans, but I'd personally still pursue complex banning Fake Out, Extreme Speed, and Boomburst in combination with -ate before an outright ban. Although with Mega-Ray and, to a lesser extent, Mega-Diancie on the scene now, I'm a fair bit less opposed to going for an outright ban over a complex ban first. Mixed Xern and Yveltal were bad enough, but Mega Ray is... just no.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Cactus, at this point we need to look at the common factor of your sets: You

Ban CactusCacti!

Also, to weigh in on the actual argument, Mega-Ray is what's broken. Aerilate was never an issue until Ray entered the fold. This thing has enough attack to 2hko almost any pokemon in the meta, and has the same special attack for breaking through anything that would otherwise wall it. It is easily the most destructive force I have seen playing BH, and really needs to go, in my opinion.
i just want to throw it out there that not only was ilate to be suspected before these megas were even heard of, aerialate is obviously the better ability out of the three, since flying type is literally the best typing offensivewise. mainly due to the lack of niche resists teams carry for the other two (heatran, ogre, groudon etc etc) literally the only thing that quad resists aerialate is magnet and aggron/other rock steel types. and perhaps a few others i cant think of. so this is a false statement really. it wasnt a problem, because it didnt have insane abusers of it either, bar rayquaza.

however, in comparason, regardless on if aerialate stays or not, we can all come to somewhat of an agreement that rayquaza is-and will be-really, REALLY powerful with gale wings being a easy replacement for ilate (please stop talking about protean, just use mega mewtwo x/y...when a offensive poke can break walls with a single offensive stat...theres no point running mixquaza...) and therefore, i say mega rayquaza should be suspected, HOWEVER we must leave it out of the question until ilate gets its proper verdict. while at the same time not use rayray as an argument for banning illate. because we cant ban illate due to rayray, and we cant ban rayray due to ilate it is just counter productive.
 
The problem here is definitely -ate abilities (Mega Rayquaza is very strong but the main issue is Aerialate). People end up running pokemon basically just to wall -ate abusers, only to get them shot down by the appropriate coverage move (like Rumors example of Blue Flare for Soundproof Mega Aggron). Offensive pokemon are forced to run King's Shield so they aren't murdered by priority base 104 power STABs, and walls have to look out for base 182 power STABs that have basically no drawback. And when pokemon have 180 / 180 offensive stats like Mega Rayquaza, they can be mixed attackers without any investment, just Boomburst. Since defensive pokemon can't run 252 / 252 / 252 defensive spreads anymore, they have to choose which defense to invest in (or not invest in HP) which leaves most unable to cope with mixed -ate. Often, the -ate counter may defeat one of the abusers but fall to the second after being softened up. Pixilate, Refrigerate, and Aerialate are overcentralizing, make certain pokemon unviable or force them to run a move slot to deal with -ates, and are too easy to abuse (Sturdinja also forces pokemon to dedicate a moveslot to beat it and is overcentralizing, but that is more easily beaten and no one seems to be complaining about it). Please either ban, or reduce to one -ate per team at the very least.
 
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I don't think Gale Wings Ray will be nearly as scary as Aerilate. I mean, still scary, but it only gets +1 priority on a specific type of moves, rather than +2 along with a +3 that ensures a flinch. Physically, Brave Bird causes unwanted recoil damage and Dragon Ascent reduces its defenses, making it easier to revenge kill either way. Offensively, Oblivion Wing, while a very nice move, lacks power if not boosted. Aeroblast is still solid, although not as ridiculous at Boomburst (100 vs 140 + 30% before STAB), but has low PP. And with the lower power means its more likely for the opponent to survive a hit and cripple or kill Ray. Just look at the comparisons.

252 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 283-334 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 214-253 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Rayquaza Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 156-184 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 162-192 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO*

252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 207-244 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 186-220 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

*Remember the +2 priority and extreme likelihood of it being after Fake Out.

So yeah, I don't see Gale Wings Ray being a dominate force when uninvested Arceus can take the hits okayishly. At least, not without set-up, something Aerilate doesn't need.

Not to mention +1 priority means Pranksters and such can threaten it with Dbonds and other nastiness, like they can to other sweepers.
 
With the attack stats mega ray carries Gale wings is just not as optimal as one might think. It's really better to save gale wings for something slower and bulkier that can appriciate priority heal + attacks.

Unless you're gonna start spamming something like Hurricane with specs in rain, just go with aerilate.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I don't think Gale Wings Ray will be nearly as scary as Aerilate. I mean, still scary, but it only gets +1 priority on a specific type of moves, rather than +2 along with a +3 that ensures a flinch. Physically, Brave Bird causes unwanted recoil damage and Dragon Ascent reduces its defenses, making it easier to revenge kill either way. Offensively, Oblivion Wing, while a very nice move, lacks power if not boosted. Aeroblast is still solid, although not as ridiculous at Boomburst (100 vs 140 + 30% before STAB), but has low PP. And with the lower power means its more likely for the opponent to survive a hit and cripple or kill Ray. Just look at the comparisons.

252 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 283-334 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 214-253 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Rayquaza Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 156-184 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 162-192 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO*

252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 207-244 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 186-220 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

*Remember the +2 priority and extreme likelihood of it being after Fake Out.

So yeah, I don't see Gale Wings Ray being a dominate force when uninvested Arceus can take the hits okayishly. At least, not without set-up, something Aerilate doesn't need.

Not to mention +1 priority means Pranksters and such can threaten it with Dbonds and other nastiness, like they can to other sweepers.
if this was guided to me, i meant that in the case of a ilate ban, it would be really scary, considering not many pokemon would like to take 2 adamant choice band brave birds(illate checks(aka steel spam) will likely fall back a bit considering their main purpose was stopping illate. also rayquaza outspeeds most dbonders(enless you run max speed arceus prankster), so i dont see the validation of that point .-.

second, yes. a pokemon with 120/120 bulk can obviously take the hit(even though half hp is hardly "Taking the hit" due to it taking another would be shaky at best and if its not prankster, well, switching into it is a bit of a gamble). but what about 105/70 or 105/100. its powerful enough that we might have to keep all our "illate" checks just to stop this thing, because otherwise offensive teams slowly get ripped to shreds as this thing just eliminates your team one by one. another thing is that GW rayquaza has no reason not to run adamant, since "power over speed" doesnt matter when it gets both in one move.

so yes, its outclassed by aerialate, but IF aerialate is gone, gale wings will become really potent:

252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 496-585 (190 - 224.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
looks like mega gengar cant sweep with this thing around.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regigigas: 381-448 (89.8 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
or regigigas for that matter.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 354-417 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
yeah...and let us not forget that IF illate is gone, this thing has no sweepers which outspeed and ohko it.

252 Atk Protean Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 192-226 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
closest thing we got.
 
MRay is so omnipresent right now I usually run this Refrigerate MMX set with e-speed :

-2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah even after a POSSIBLE King's shield, the MRAY is killed. So well, you can just spam Steel-types (remember the regenerator U-Turn registeel set ?), get that MMX safely on the field, and profit your wonderful advantage.
I know that refrigerate MMX is actually dropping a lot of power in order to check threats such as MRay, but somehow :

4 SpA Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aggron: 164-194 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 182-214 (75.2 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 239-283 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The Choice Banded set lets MMX do even more damage tho.

EDIT : Bringing up some more calcs. So let's say we've got a -ilate ban, and contrary MRAY becomes the new thing. Then we just have the :

252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Here we go, that's it, MRay isn't a broken thing anymore if you run the proper things.
 
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MRay is so omnipresent right now I usually run this Refrigerate MMX set with e-speed :

-2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah even after a POSSIBLE King's shield, the MRAY is killed. So well, you can just spam Steel-types (remember the regenerator U-Turn registeel set ?), get that MMX safely on the field, and profit your wonderful advantage.
I know that refrigerate MMX is actually dropping a lot of power in order to check threats such as MRay, but somehow :

4 SpA Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aggron: 164-194 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 182-214 (75.2 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 239-283 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The Choice Banded set lets MMX do even more damage tho.

EDIT : Bringing up some more calcs. So let's say we've got a -ilate ban, and contrary MRAY becomes the new thing. Then we just have the :

252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Here we go, that's it, MRay isn't a broken thing anymore if you run the proper things.
If we have an -ate ban, then MMX won't be able to run Fridge E-Speed.
 
Lcass4919 But that's with a Choice Band though, so it better have scary damage potential with one of those. The catch with the Band though is if Ray Brave Birds into Aggron, it's forced out nearly 100% of the time since it can't switch to a coverage move. The Band also makes it, and most other Band users, King's Shield bait. Not to mention, like OU Talonflame, Ray is going to have serious recoil issues with Brave Band, especially in the face of rocks and Rocky Helmets. Dragon Ascent would be directly safer, but leaves it open for being easily revenged or KOed by anything that survives its attack.

But I'm not going to argue that Gale Band Ray doesn't have scary damage potential, since it does. But, on paper at least, it looks like it'd be roughly as dangerous as, say, Drizzle Specs Spout Palkia in terms of raw damage and wall breakingness. Which is very dangerous, but also easily checked or shut down.

Also, I picked no bulk Arceus just to illustrate the damage difference between Gale Wings and Aerilate. It's not quite an accurate picture since, if memory serves right, most Arceus are support and therefore are probably running something like 252 HP/252 Spe, so the damage would be lower in practice.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Lcass4919 But that's with a Choice Band though, so it better have scary damage potential with one of those. The catch with the Band though is if Ray Brave Birds into Aggron, it's forced out nearly 100% of the time since it can't switch to a coverage move. The Band also makes it, and most other Band users, King's Shield bait. Not to mention, like OU Talonflame, Ray is going to have serious recoil issues with Brave Band, especially in the face of rocks and Rocky Helmets. Dragon Ascent would be directly safer, but leaves it open for being easily revenged or KOed by anything that survives its attack.

But I'm not going to argue that Gale Band Ray doesn't have scary damage potential, since it does. But, on paper at least, it looks like it'd be roughly as dangerous as, say, Drizzle Specs Spout Palkia in terms of raw damage and wall breakingness. Which is very dangerous, but also easily checked or shut down.

Also, I picked no bulk Arceus just to illustrate the damage difference between Gale Wings and Aerilate. It's not quite an accurate picture since, if memory serves right, most Arceus are support and therefore are probably running something like 252 HP/252 Spe, so the damage would be lower in practice.
are you forgetting that i pointed out that this is "in the case of ilate ban" therefore kings sheild, and aggron will both be pointless to run on teams due to being either outclassed, or lack of niche, aggrons main purpose was ripped right out of its palms, it was a good check to regigigas and kyurem b which both have become weak enough that offensive pressure is more then enough to stop them meanwhile beforehand they were both huge problems in the metagame due to ph and refridgerate respectively (hence why aggron died down, since most ilates now carry boomburst). kings sheilds sole purpose in the teir was to catch ilates off guard, and if illate is gone...then its only natural kings sheild will die down too.

also i used choice band because thats perhaps the best set to use in an offensive orientated metagame, where simply having it on the feild stops setup, offensive pressure, and frail pokemon in general, from doing anything without risking it comeing in and destroying them.

also, the point your missing about drizzle specs palkia vs rayray, is ray gets 120 bp PRIORITY and wall breaking skills. in an offensive metagame. like, imagine talonflame...pretty weak attackingwise compared to the rest of the metagame...shaky coverage (fire flying is good...but not perfect) plenty of resistances to brave bird, and plenty of ways to kill it and it still manages to be a top threat in ou due to gale wings alone...and now look at megaquaza, 2nd highest attack in the tier, perfect coverage options,MIXED potential offenses(heck, slapping on a rare earth power will completely destroy aggron) some resistances to brave bird, but nothing offensive can take it (not even eviolite chansey 252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Eviolite Chansey: 306-361 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO it can take it, but taking 2 is a bit shaky). it literally forces you to play defensively until it dies. heck, setting up a swords dance will be easy for quaza considering walls will be forced to switch into it due to barely anything offensive being able to handle its priority attacks. i mean, if you guys don't see it being super scary, then fine, i'll abuse it lol and maybe my theorymonning is wrong. i just figure best offensive type+priority+powerful BP attack+strong offenses+mixed capability=destruction. kinda like illate but watered down a bit.

and before anyone comments about me talking about mixed attacking when i was just arguing against it, i was talking about protean, once/if illate is gone, rayray will be the sole good user of strong priority barring normal types/protean henceforth, nothing can accomplish the same role, whereas megamewtwo x and y outclass mega rayray in the protean department due to their redic power being enough to destroy walls as is.

4 SpA Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aggron: 164-194 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
also, a bit of a nitpick, but i actually hate this attack now, mainly because its hardcoded in the games to only be useable by hoopas new form, otherwise it fails, and im wondering when they will fix this mechanic...
 
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If we have an -ate ban, then MMX won't be able to run Fridge E-Speed.
I was talking about an -ilate ban actually, since refrigerate and pixilate are easier to handle with.

also, a bit of a nitpick, but i actually hate this attack now, mainly because its hardcoded in the games to only be useable by hoopas new form, otherwise it fails, and im wondering when they will fix this mechanic...
I agree from the bottom of my heart, but sadly as it's still there we have to deal with it.
 

AWailOfATail

viva la darmz
Dear BH,

Well, I've been working on a little something

I'd read below first

So basically, you paste your BH team in there and it does a bunch of calculations and stuff.
Make sure you only have the parameters listed, though (so no Shiny, IVs, Level, etc).
The "How to Use" page at the bottom should kinda make things clear. When you paste it, the Weakness/Attack Calculator will update. It'll give you what types your team is weak to (the first chart) and what types your team doesn't have enough coverage against (the second chart). So it's basically just a big resistance chart for your team.
Btw there's a bunch of stuff that you can't edit, you can basically only type/paste on the Team Insert page and Suggestions

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!
I lied! See that little green tab at the bottom? The one that says Move Data (Ranks)? You can write on some of that page, too!
I'm ranking the most common moves in BH on a -3 to 3 scale, -3 being very offensive and 3 being very stally. This is going to be for a later update of the doc, in which it ranks your team's offensive/stall intensity.
"But wait!" you say. "Will all the ranks be determined by only you?"
Of course not! I need your help. If there is a move that is not on there, type it in below the already existing moves, along with its type (if it is an attacking move) and rank you think it deserves. Do NOT put the type if the move does not cause non-fixed damage. (AKA Metal Burst deals a fixed damage, so even though it is Steel, it is unaffected by resistances and does not have its type.) Eventually, a bunch of people and I will go through and make final decisions on the rank. So help out with it if you want! It'll make the next update come quicker!

tldr; (which it shouldn't be)
Paste your team with the necessary deletions
Go to Weakness/Attack Calculator sheet listed on the bottom
See what your team needs to fix match-up wise
Try to contribute to the Move Data (Ranks) page

Hope you try it out!

Regards,
AWOAT

EDIT: Rating system is a go!
If you've used it recently, you'll see a bunch of numbers and a big box with red lettering. That'll tell you how stally/offensive your team is.
"BUT WAIL IT DOESNT WORK FOR MY TEAM PLZ FIX"
Calm down. If the red text reads #NA or #VALUE or #something, scroll down to the boxes by each Pokemon. Find the individual cell that has the #error thing. Put that on the Suggestion page. I'll need to add it in.
And remember, if one of those cells in Column E is blank, put that on the Suggestion page too.

I've seen a bunch of different teams in the rater, thanks for using it!
 
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So when can we expect suspect tests? I'm done with this format until then. Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that. Just mash Aerilate Extreme Speed and laugh your way to the bank. It's ridiculous and anti-fun.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate seeing a great format stagnate into oblivion because of 1 pokemon (and/or 1 ability, depending on your viewpoint of what the issue is).
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
So when can we expect suspect tests? I'm done with this format until then. Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that. Just mash Aerilate Extreme Speed and laugh your way to the bank. It's ridiculous and anti-fun.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate seeing a great format stagnate into oblivion because of 1 pokemon (and/or 1 ability, depending on your viewpoint of what the issue is).
I made a team featuring no Mega-Ray, Chansey, or Shedinja, and it currently has a decent success rate. Mega-Kyogre and Mega-Don are just stronger versions of their normal formes, so I do run them since they aren't as broken, but it just shows that you don't need M-Ray to win if you know what you're doing.

Still is really powerful tho
 
So when can we expect suspect tests? I'm done with this format until then. Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that. Just mash Aerilate Extreme Speed and laugh your way to the bank. It's ridiculous and anti-fun.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate seeing a great format stagnate into oblivion because of 1 pokemon (and/or 1 ability, depending on your viewpoint of what the issue is).
It's not that hard to stop Mega Rayquaza.

This is, by my count, the fourth time you have complained about it being broken. It seems to be annoying you to the point that you would actually quit the meta because you think you see it too often. Just have one thing that can take both physical and special attacks decently well (like a Registeel or Aegislash) and a backup in case that thing dies. If you want you can throw in Pixilate Mega Diancie, which kills it really easily.

Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that.
This is not really an accurate depiction of the meta. You're acting like people have become less original overall because of the existence of Aerilate Mega Ray. This is a flawed sequence of cause and effect.

Chansey and Shedinja have always been common. They have always been useful for stopping unprepared sweepers. Aerilate Mega Ray's existence has not caused them to increase in use (or at least not in the case of Chansey).

Kyogre and Groudon are just solid Pokemon that don't do particularly well or badly against -ates, so their usage isn't at all correlated with that of Aerilate Mega Ray.

And your point about Mega Gengar and Deoxys-S being on every team is a little strange too, because if anything, they would lose to Mega Rayquaza, so it doesn't make sense that they would be so high in usage as a result (not to mention the fact that Deoxys-S is really bad and shouldn't be used most of the time anyway).

I don't know if I really represent the ladder that well, but I can tell you that not a single team I have made — ever — follows the prototype you detailed.
 
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I was not suggesting Mega Gengar, Deoxys, etc. are rising in usage due to Mega Ray. I was simply stating the fact that every team I face follows that blueprint. Double Dragon, because lol why not, and then a selection of those different mons. Once in a while you'll see Aegi or Registeel as a specific Dragon check. The issue is running 1 "Dragon Counter" (I posted a Registeel set in the Viability thread that works okay) leaves you vulnerable to double dragon, because every Ray is running Searing Shot, Precipice Blades, Earth Power, etc. to counter the only things in the game that can check them: bulky soundproof steel types.

If you aren't seeing double Mega Ray on every team, then we're playing a different meta. At least 75% of my matches are against double Ray, and that is not an exaggeration.
 
I was not suggesting Mega Gengar, Deoxys, etc. are rising in usage due to Mega Ray. I was simply stating the fact that every team I face follows that blueprint. Double Dragon, because lol why not, and then a selection of those different mons. Once in a while you'll see Aegi or Registeel as a specific Dragon check. The issue is running 1 "Dragon Counter" (I posted a Registeel set in the Viability thread that works okay) leaves you vulnerable to double dragon, because every Ray is running Searing Shot, Precipice Blades, Earth Power, etc. to counter the only things in the game that can check them: bulky soundproof steel types.

If you aren't seeing double Mega Ray on every team, then we're playing a different meta. At least 75% of my matches are against double Ray, and that is not an exaggeration.
Assuming most Mega Rayquazas run Fake Out, Extremespeed and Boomburst; this leaves one moveslot left for coverage. The check that you failed to mention is Shedinja, hence if you run coverage for Steel-types, you can't beat Shedinja, and vice versa. If you run Magma Storm, well not only is its accuracy questionable but it loses to Flash Fire Steel-types that can take a Boomburst. Mega Rayquaza is very stoppable even if it does well in the metagame, just as how Protean Pokemon are stoppable despite the fact that which are supposed to have perfect coverage for the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame.
 
I was not suggesting Mega Gengar, Deoxys, etc. are rising in usage due to Mega Ray. I was simply stating the fact that every team I face follows that blueprint. Double Dragon, because lol why not, and then a selection of those different mons. Once in a while you'll see Aegi or Registeel as a specific Dragon check. The issue is running 1 "Dragon Counter" (I posted a Registeel set in the Viability thread that works okay) leaves you vulnerable to double dragon, because every Ray is running Searing Shot, Precipice Blades, Earth Power, etc. to counter the only things in the game that can check them: bulky soundproof steel types.

If you aren't seeing double Mega Ray on every team, then we're playing a different meta. At least 75% of my matches are against double Ray, and that is not an exaggeration.
Excuse me but not every person is me.

Although I'd like to at least hear something about suspect testing. It's been a while...
 

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