Adrian Marin once tricked me into believing he was a new player. That was the most painful battle I ever had.Oh well, at least people mistakenly think I'm incompetent when they see Drizzle Kyo-P on my experimental rain team.
Adrian Marin once tricked me into believing he was a new player. That was the most painful battle I ever had.Oh well, at least people mistakenly think I'm incompetent when they see Drizzle Kyo-P on my experimental rain team.
Just look at his "Information" pageAdrian Marin once tricked me into believing he was a new player. That was the most painful battle I ever had.
My timing's been off, I think the appropriate time to hold the suspect test will be this coming weekend. It is important to me that no mon be explicitly banned from BH, and I'd be willing to look at harsher measures towards the iates if that were to allow that. If you have any concerns regarding the future of the metagame following the upcoming vote, suggestions for poll options that will adequately address the current issue (i.e., -ate clause), or opinions on just how broken/unbroken you think current pokemon are based on the -iates, please post.
i just want to throw it out there that not only was ilate to be suspected before these megas were even heard of, aerialate is obviously the better ability out of the three, since flying type is literally the best typing offensivewise. mainly due to the lack of niche resists teams carry for the other two (heatran, ogre, groudon etc etc) literally the only thing that quad resists aerialate is magnet and aggron/other rock steel types. and perhaps a few others i cant think of. so this is a false statement really. it wasnt a problem, because it didnt have insane abusers of it either, bar rayquaza.Cactus, at this point we need to look at the common factor of your sets: You
Ban CactusCacti!
Also, to weigh in on the actual argument, Mega-Ray is what's broken. Aerilate was never an issue until Ray entered the fold. This thing has enough attack to 2hko almost any pokemon in the meta, and has the same special attack for breaking through anything that would otherwise wall it. It is easily the most destructive force I have seen playing BH, and really needs to go, in my opinion.
if this was guided to me, i meant that in the case of a ilate ban, it would be really scary, considering not many pokemon would like to take 2 adamant choice band brave birds(illate checks(aka steel spam) will likely fall back a bit considering their main purpose was stopping illate. also rayquaza outspeeds most dbonders(enless you run max speed arceus prankster), so i dont see the validation of that point .-.I don't think Gale Wings Ray will be nearly as scary as Aerilate. I mean, still scary, but it only gets +1 priority on a specific type of moves, rather than +2 along with a +3 that ensures a flinch. Physically, Brave Bird causes unwanted recoil damage and Dragon Ascent reduces its defenses, making it easier to revenge kill either way. Offensively, Oblivion Wing, while a very nice move, lacks power if not boosted. Aeroblast is still solid, although not as ridiculous at Boomburst (100 vs 140 + 30% before STAB), but has low PP. And with the lower power means its more likely for the opponent to survive a hit and cripple or kill Ray. Just look at the comparisons.
252 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 283-334 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 214-253 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rayquaza Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 156-184 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 162-192 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO*
252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 207-244 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 186-220 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
*Remember the +2 priority and extreme likelihood of it being after Fake Out.
So yeah, I don't see Gale Wings Ray being a dominate force when uninvested Arceus can take the hits okayishly. At least, not without set-up, something Aerilate doesn't need.
Not to mention +1 priority means Pranksters and such can threaten it with Dbonds and other nastiness, like they can to other sweepers.
252 Atk Technician Mega Mewtwo X Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 300-356 (85.2 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO252 Atk Protean Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 192-226 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
closest thing we got.
lol my point still stands that mega mewtwo x is the closest thing. allthough i didnt take to consideration ice shard.252 Atk Technician Mega Mewtwo X Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 300-356 (85.2 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
lel
If we have an -ate ban, then MMX won't be able to run Fridge E-Speed.MRay is so omnipresent right now I usually run this Refrigerate MMX set with e-speed :
-2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah even after a POSSIBLE King's shield, the MRAY is killed. So well, you can just spam Steel-types (remember the regenerator U-Turn registeel set ?), get that MMX safely on the field, and profit your wonderful advantage.
I know that refrigerate MMX is actually dropping a lot of power in order to check threats such as MRay, but somehow :
4 SpA Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aggron: 164-194 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 182-214 (75.2 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 239-283 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The Choice Banded set lets MMX do even more damage tho.
EDIT : Bringing up some more calcs. So let's say we've got a -ilate ban, and contrary MRAY becomes the new thing. Then we just have the :
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Here we go, that's it, MRay isn't a broken thing anymore if you run the proper things.
are you forgetting that i pointed out that this is "in the case of ilate ban" therefore kings sheild, and aggron will both be pointless to run on teams due to being either outclassed, or lack of niche, aggrons main purpose was ripped right out of its palms, it was a good check to regigigas and kyurem b which both have become weak enough that offensive pressure is more then enough to stop them meanwhile beforehand they were both huge problems in the metagame due to ph and refridgerate respectively (hence why aggron died down, since most ilates now carry boomburst). kings sheilds sole purpose in the teir was to catch ilates off guard, and if illate is gone...then its only natural kings sheild will die down too.Lcass4919 But that's with a Choice Band though, so it better have scary damage potential with one of those. The catch with the Band though is if Ray Brave Birds into Aggron, it's forced out nearly 100% of the time since it can't switch to a coverage move. The Band also makes it, and most other Band users, King's Shield bait. Not to mention, like OU Talonflame, Ray is going to have serious recoil issues with Brave Band, especially in the face of rocks and Rocky Helmets. Dragon Ascent would be directly safer, but leaves it open for being easily revenged or KOed by anything that survives its attack.
But I'm not going to argue that Gale Band Ray doesn't have scary damage potential, since it does. But, on paper at least, it looks like it'd be roughly as dangerous as, say, Drizzle Specs Spout Palkia in terms of raw damage and wall breakingness. Which is very dangerous, but also easily checked or shut down.
Also, I picked no bulk Arceus just to illustrate the damage difference between Gale Wings and Aerilate. It's not quite an accurate picture since, if memory serves right, most Arceus are support and therefore are probably running something like 252 HP/252 Spe, so the damage would be lower in practice.
also, a bit of a nitpick, but i actually hate this attack now, mainly because its hardcoded in the games to only be useable by hoopas new form, otherwise it fails, and im wondering when they will fix this mechanic...4 SpA Life Orb Mega Mewtwo X Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aggron: 164-194 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
What's his set? The fist plate judgment one?Karutobi's Mega-Ray, which has swept multiple teams and isn't Aerilate.
Your move.
I doubt it. No one really uses it besides me and Pikachuun. If I recall correctly, it has Steam Eruption and moves of that nature.What's his set? The fist plate judgment one?
Hyperspace Fury, Espeed, and Thousand Arrows are the other ones.I doubt it. No one really uses it besides me and Pikachuun. If I recall correctly, it has Steam Eruption and moves of that nature.
I was talking about an -ilate ban actually, since refrigerate and pixilate are easier to handle with.If we have an -ate ban, then MMX won't be able to run Fridge E-Speed.
I agree from the bottom of my heart, but sadly as it's still there we have to deal with it.also, a bit of a nitpick, but i actually hate this attack now, mainly because its hardcoded in the games to only be useable by hoopas new form, otherwise it fails, and im wondering when they will fix this mechanic...
I made a team featuring no Mega-Ray, Chansey, or Shedinja, and it currently has a decent success rate. Mega-Kyogre and Mega-Don are just stronger versions of their normal formes, so I do run them since they aren't as broken, but it just shows that you don't need M-Ray to win if you know what you're doing.So when can we expect suspect tests? I'm done with this format until then. Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that. Just mash Aerilate Extreme Speed and laugh your way to the bank. It's ridiculous and anti-fun.
Sorry for the rant, but I hate seeing a great format stagnate into oblivion because of 1 pokemon (and/or 1 ability, depending on your viewpoint of what the issue is).
It's not that hard to stop Mega Rayquaza.So when can we expect suspect tests? I'm done with this format until then. Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that. Just mash Aerilate Extreme Speed and laugh your way to the bank. It's ridiculous and anti-fun.
Sorry for the rant, but I hate seeing a great format stagnate into oblivion because of 1 pokemon (and/or 1 ability, depending on your viewpoint of what the issue is).
This is not really an accurate depiction of the meta. You're acting like people have become less original overall because of the existence of Aerilate Mega Ray. This is a flawed sequence of cause and effect.Every single team is Mega Ray x2, Chansey, Shedinja, and 2 of: Kyogre, Mega Gengar, Deoxys S, Groudon. This is supposed to be a format of creativity and experimentation, and because of this damn dragon, there is none of that.
Assuming most Mega Rayquazas run Fake Out, Extremespeed and Boomburst; this leaves one moveslot left for coverage. The check that you failed to mention is Shedinja, hence if you run coverage for Steel-types, you can't beat Shedinja, and vice versa. If you run Magma Storm, well not only is its accuracy questionable but it loses to Flash Fire Steel-types that can take a Boomburst. Mega Rayquaza is very stoppable even if it does well in the metagame, just as how Protean Pokemon are stoppable despite the fact that which are supposed to have perfect coverage for the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame.I was not suggesting Mega Gengar, Deoxys, etc. are rising in usage due to Mega Ray. I was simply stating the fact that every team I face follows that blueprint. Double Dragon, because lol why not, and then a selection of those different mons. Once in a while you'll see Aegi or Registeel as a specific Dragon check. The issue is running 1 "Dragon Counter" (I posted a Registeel set in the Viability thread that works okay) leaves you vulnerable to double dragon, because every Ray is running Searing Shot, Precipice Blades, Earth Power, etc. to counter the only things in the game that can check them: bulky soundproof steel types.
If you aren't seeing double Mega Ray on every team, then we're playing a different meta. At least 75% of my matches are against double Ray, and that is not an exaggeration.
Excuse me but not every person is me.I was not suggesting Mega Gengar, Deoxys, etc. are rising in usage due to Mega Ray. I was simply stating the fact that every team I face follows that blueprint. Double Dragon, because lol why not, and then a selection of those different mons. Once in a while you'll see Aegi or Registeel as a specific Dragon check. The issue is running 1 "Dragon Counter" (I posted a Registeel set in the Viability thread that works okay) leaves you vulnerable to double dragon, because every Ray is running Searing Shot, Precipice Blades, Earth Power, etc. to counter the only things in the game that can check them: bulky soundproof steel types.
If you aren't seeing double Mega Ray on every team, then we're playing a different meta. At least 75% of my matches are against double Ray, and that is not an exaggeration.