M-My original picture of it happening was in a local battle.
edit: too much effort to find the original post, had the image though so here is a new one (also, fuck doing nature, it was obviously jolly)
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BH Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter E4 Flint
- Start date
edit: too much effort to find the original post, had the image though so here is a new one (also, fuck doing nature, it was obviously jolly)
here's a tip: don't use Refrigerate Kyurem-Black outside of -ate speed shenanigans. I found out the hard way that this set is just better:
innhards out (Kyurem-Black) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- insert the stuff you like here. bone rush, bolt strike, trick, etc are all viable options.
you don't lose out on power (Icicle Spear still ohkos mmy unless you are the king of low damage rolls) and you go through sashes.
honestly we just need to ban DQM because I run into this garbage too and it's not fun to face at all. you need tons of preparation on your team, and even then you need to play really well to beat the stuff your opponent calls "sweepers that require skill". here's a tip for all of you who are sick of it: stop laddering because it will go away eventually. having to get reqs while dealing with it sucks tho
anyway: I'm interested in something: is there any reason we should ban something other than the abilities? even if we ban shell smash, there will be garbage like contrary bp to dqm.
edit: Rumors I prefer max speed jolly to outrun scarf pdon because being able to spear/bone rush a weakened one can be p big
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Try running Adamant* 240 HP / 76 Atk / 192 with Bullet Seed. If you suspect a IO switch-in, the first hit of Bullet Seed will never OHKO min invested IO Chansey unless they do something like lower their level to 60.
*Adamant over Jolly with more Atk EVs since you get more bang for your buck EVs this way. I spent about half an hour working out that EV spread for the Kyu-B analysis and comparing it to Jolly spreads, so trust me on this.
As for your question, potentially yes as anti-priority abilities probably wouldn't be so ridiculous if they weren't letting super frail glass cannons set-up and sweep nearly uncontested. So, there's merit in considering other options. As for Shell Smash specifically, all other set-up options are slower to get the same power and speed, especially for mixed sweeping. And your Contrary Baton Pass example would give an opponent ample time to react and disrupt the strategy as you'd need two V-Creates to get the same speed and then a OverDraco CannonStorm for Sp. A, two Superpowers for Attack, or both for mixed. So, four turns at minimal assuming the Contrary switched in after a KO or was the lead, including the BP turn.
*Adamant over Jolly with more Atk EVs since you get more bang for your buck EVs this way. I spent about half an hour working out that EV spread for the Kyu-B analysis and comparing it to Jolly spreads, so trust me on this.
As for your question, potentially yes as anti-priority abilities probably wouldn't be so ridiculous if they weren't letting super frail glass cannons set-up and sweep nearly uncontested. So, there's merit in considering other options. As for Shell Smash specifically, all other set-up options are slower to get the same power and speed, especially for mixed sweeping. And your Contrary Baton Pass example would give an opponent ample time to react and disrupt the strategy as you'd need two V-Creates to get the same speed and then a OverDraco CannonStorm for Sp. A, two Superpowers for Attack, or both for mixed. So, four turns at minimal assuming the Contrary switched in after a KO or was the lead, including the BP turn.
I've been pretty inactive lately, but lately I've been messing about on the suspect ladder and these sets have done a lot of work for me.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Earth Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Psystrike
- Judgment
- King's Shield
It's really simple. Common switch-ins to Mewtwo-Y are mostly steel types or fat mons such as Zygarde (if you're feeling edgy). This threatens both of those while being very troublesome for the opposing team to wall. It also helps take out most variants of P-Groudon for Water Bubble sweepers.
I've combined this set with the following to help it do the most work:
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Trick
This essentially lures in regen-vest steels or steels in general to make Mewtwo's life easier. Tinted lens ensures you absolutely knacker steel switch ins, ex:
252 Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 296-350 (61.9 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Example replay of the duo in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmonssuspecttest-538187879
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Earth Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Psystrike
- Judgment
- King's Shield
It's really simple. Common switch-ins to Mewtwo-Y are mostly steel types or fat mons such as Zygarde (if you're feeling edgy). This threatens both of those while being very troublesome for the opposing team to wall. It also helps take out most variants of P-Groudon for Water Bubble sweepers.
I've combined this set with the following to help it do the most work:
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Trick
This essentially lures in regen-vest steels or steels in general to make Mewtwo's life easier. Tinted lens ensures you absolutely knacker steel switch ins, ex:
252 Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 296-350 (61.9 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Example replay of the duo in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmonssuspecttest-538187879
... I've been messing about on the suspect ladder and these sets have done a lot of work for me.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Earth Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Psystrike
- Judgment
- King's Shield
...
Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Trick
...
Both sets are great.
Here a little dmg comparison;
252 SpA Pixilate Mewtwo-Mega-Y Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete: 248-292 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete: 268-316 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
I tested with scarf Kartana; Sacred Fire over Trick; but it got walled so much by Flash Fire Steels.
Band gives the much needed power.
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
To the person that is in 1st place in Ladder, I would like to hear an advice about how to deal with this cancer meta where 10- year olds just spam Shell Smash with anti-priority and Sash.
I personally carry Spectral Thief & Phazing moves in all of my supports because I find this purely disgusting and no-skill-based.
I was in 2nd place until I failed to phaze Sash Smash spammers with Dragon Tail (apparently it has 10% accuracy for me now) in 7 consecutive games, and I do not want to waste a party slot with Prankster Haze which is absolutely passive until I end up handing over the momentum by spamming Haze until Shell Smasher switches out.
Or do I have to run Magic Room or Embargo?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmonssuspecttest-539829675
This is the practical team with Shell Smash that requires 0 skill.
I cannot tell what would happen if Kyurem-B has not missed Bone Rush. Gengar's Spore did not matter BC my Kyogre had full Sp Def investment with Assault Vest.
WhySxSerixus, I am sorry about you going through RNG fuckery, but you deserve it by having such team and playing meta in the sh*ttiest way possible.
I personally carry Spectral Thief & Phazing moves in all of my supports because I find this purely disgusting and no-skill-based.
I was in 2nd place until I failed to phaze Sash Smash spammers with Dragon Tail (apparently it has 10% accuracy for me now) in 7 consecutive games, and I do not want to waste a party slot with Prankster Haze which is absolutely passive until I end up handing over the momentum by spamming Haze until Shell Smasher switches out.
Or do I have to run Magic Room or Embargo?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmonssuspecttest-539829675
This is the practical team with Shell Smash that requires 0 skill.
I cannot tell what would happen if Kyurem-B has not missed Bone Rush. Gengar's Spore did not matter BC my Kyogre had full Sp Def investment with Assault Vest.
WhySxSerixus, I am sorry about you going through RNG fuckery, but you deserve it by having such team and playing meta in the sh*ttiest way possible.
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Guys this isn't a thread for joke sets and isn't for posting your teams. Use Creative and Underrated Sets if you have a good unique set and OM Bazaar to post your teams. Questions related to mechanics should go in Simple Questions, Simple Answers.
I Find PrankHaze Sogaleo works or deo-s with kings shield and specteral thief as well as speed boost
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
Deo-S is a waste of a party slot.
Prankster Haze, I have mentioned, is 100% passive until the opponent decides to stop spam Shell Smash and eventually hand over the momentum.
Speed Boost is for low ladder. Who gives a crap about it when Spectral Thief is everywhere?
Also I have to spam Spectral Thief with the walls and supports while risking to take Choiced attacks in return.
I am not sure how high your ladder is, but that sounds like ill-advised for me. But I still appreciate your response.
So I've seen it tested in game and I have myself....
Why do we still have the 510 EV limit?
Its allowed to have over 510 EV's in local battle, where we can play with our hackmons?
I know this is probably irrelevant because there's other stuff to worry about or whatever, but still.
Ima get ignored aren't I?
Why do we still have the 510 EV limit?
Its allowed to have over 510 EV's in local battle, where we can play with our hackmons?
I know this is probably irrelevant because there's other stuff to worry about or whatever, but still.
Ima get ignored aren't I?
E4 Flint could you give us an update about this? I'd personally like to hear something since it is sorta the first thing I tested and wrote about this gen and nearly everything else has been implemented or banned...
The Immortal was getting back to me after referring with some of his secret service members iirc so let's see what he says
Why is Leech Seed suggested to kill Shedinja on so many sets, mainly Primal Kyogre? When you use Leech Seed, Shedinja still can hit you with Endeavor, and in the next turn, ylu can be finished by any FakeSpeeder.
morogrim
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Leech Seed, like many other moves, has best and worst case scenarios for its usage. What you mentioned was the worst case scenario where you didn't predict a Shedinja switchin but you still Leech Seed it afterwards but in exchange for an Endeavor (there is an even worse scenario than that which is where you miss the Leech Seed and get Endeavor'd but I won't be talking about that since that's just hax). The best case scenario is to hit Shedinja with Leech Seed on the switchin in which case you get a free KO. Obviously any person would prefer not to take the worst case scenario, in which case you could just switch to your Ghost type and take the Endeavor and try to predict a Shedinja switchin later, but also keep in mind that sometimes some teams may not have that luxury and would have to take that trade in order to be able to have a shot at winning. In gen6, Leech Seed was one of the best ways to be able to always defeat Shedinja 1v1 on a Quiver Dancer such as Kyogre. In gen7 though, you could just use Moongeist Beam if your only concern is Shedinja. Keep in mind however that Leech Seed is still a solid option as it helps you beat Imposters 1v1 (your Leech Seed greatly outheals the Imposter's).
Because Kyogre also runs Protect-like moves, so it can gain another 1/8 of HP and then might check fakespeeders, because of Quiver Dance it will tank Boomburst, and a possible King's Shield will cut in half the physical side. It can then start leech seeding the fake speeder and gain even more health. This doesn't work on a Galvanize, however. Or just switch to something else, like Registeel.
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
Semako
Also If I were to elaborate, being able to take down one threatening mon by sacrificing a moveslot is totally worth, and Leech Seed is not simply used to kill Sturdinja, as I mentioned it in your RMT thread. It also helps you chip Imposter faster while retaining high health, and you can just set up on Imposter in the face.
I'm curious what all of your thoughts are on Innards Out.
If I recall, AAA banned it for essentially being an easy free kill with little to no counter play.
There are 2 counters that I personally would like to discuss here as well: Magic Guard and Multi-hit moves.
Those things seem to be the only thing to reliably be able to take on IO. One ability and a small handful of moves.
IMO, it needs to be suspected.
If I recall, AAA banned it for essentially being an easy free kill with little to no counter play.
There are 2 counters that I personally would like to discuss here as well: Magic Guard and Multi-hit moves.
Those things seem to be the only thing to reliably be able to take on IO. One ability and a small handful of moves.
IMO, it needs to be suspected.
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
APS (anti-priority setup) and Innards Out are seriously being discussed in this thread.
If you played Ubers / Anything Goes tier, you will understand how threatening Mega Gengar is because it can trap someone and get rid of them if they are threatening by any means.
But Innards Out can do the whole thing in simply one turn, while in regular metagames one has to play mind games and use appropriate Destiny Bond or Perish Song. It requires next to 0 skill to use, it needs to go.
Also it isn't all about 13 defense Chansey exploding on U-turn or Icicle Spear; anything with 100+ base HP and 150+ offensive stats are abused right now, just like how I abused Choice Band Rhyperior and Choice Specs Nihilego with Innards Out in AAA meta.
There's also any form of passive damage. So for example Stealth rock, spikes, poison, burn, leech seed, (ghost) curse, damaging weathers, partial trapping. With all this you should be able to get it below the max health of your sweeper, which then makes it much less potent.
And on top of that there's any form of ability removal and in the case of chansey (arguably the most effective user) you can just click a special move and 2hko it if it chooses to switch in. (Edit: just did a calc and I apologize; 2hkoing chansey is actually pretty difficult)
This isn't to say I don't think it's uncompetitive, but there is definitely counterplay if you're willing to build it into your team.
If you really are afraid of IO use Zygarde. Due to his abnormally high HP it will survive Blissey (and by extension everything else) after SR.
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
It also survives Final Gambit after hurting it with Core Enforcer.
Since running False Swipe or Hold Back is retarded and has no use outsides IO (some even carry Metal Burst to punish ones who use things like Rapid Spin), I ultimately suggest Magic Bounce Giratina which deflects every annoying stuff from IO Chansey / Blissey and won't worry about Final Gambit shenanigans.
Okay I had someone verify it and it is indeed allowed. You know what that means...
If there is a 1536 EV limit, there's no reason not to put full evs into everything, which basically defeats the point of EVs right? I'm not arguing against it, because hackmons is hackmons, but still. lol