This was for Poison Heal variants of Primal Kyogre.
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BH Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter E4 Flint
- Start date
Which sometimes run a set of Water Spout / Moonblast / Quiver Dance / Spore. In fact, I think that moveset is actually the original PH Kyogre Adrian created waaaaaaaay back early in X/Y.
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Yeah, but the calc automatically puts in Heavy Rain for POgre, which shouldn't be there.
In other news, I've enjoyed Prankster Ferrothorn recently, as it can take care of PH Ogre to a strong degree, as well as Parting Shot away from pesky Fire-type moves. It also offers all the perks of Prankster, like Haze and Destiny Bond.
What good Unaware users are there right now? I've bounced around from Ferrothorn to Audino-Mega, and someone suggested Gyarados-Mega, but what else really is there?
Here are the calcs with no heavy rain:
With no power-boosting nature:
252 SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
With a power-boosting nature:
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 186-219 (51 - 60.1%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So you have a good chance of a Core Enforcer to nullify Poison Heal if Pogre doesn't have too many boosts.
Forgot about the friggin' rain being auto-set. Still though, that's way too much damage to counter Pogre. It's a check at best since you can't switch in reliably and Registeel likely loses if Pogre has even one boost.
AWailOfATail Sungeist and Power Trip make Unawaring rather hard, since a lot of the best Unawares previously, like Cresselia, are much less reliable now. Eviolite Chansey and Registeel make decent passive Unawares. But, I don't think there's a blanket "best" Unaware anymore (at least until we get something like Water/Dark with Giratina's bulk), so you should probably find one with good stats and typing to synergize with your team. You may also consider more offensive Unaware approaches, like the Ho-Oh set I posted to the Creative Sets thread, since they can actively remove set-up sweepers rather than passively stop them.
I feel that, with how potent set-up is lately in the current unsettled meta, active discouragement feels more reliable than just passively forcing the target out. I could be wrong on that, however.
AWailOfATail Sungeist and Power Trip make Unawaring rather hard, since a lot of the best Unawares previously, like Cresselia, are much less reliable now. Eviolite Chansey and Registeel make decent passive Unawares. But, I don't think there's a blanket "best" Unaware anymore (at least until we get something like Water/Dark with Giratina's bulk), so you should probably find one with good stats and typing to synergize with your team. You may also consider more offensive Unaware approaches, like the Ho-Oh set I posted to the Creative Sets thread, since they can actively remove set-up sweepers rather than passively stop them.
I feel that, with how potent set-up is lately in the current unsettled meta, active discouragement feels more reliable than just passively forcing the target out. I could be wrong on that, however.
Yoshi
IT'S FINK DUMBASS
I want to take some time tonight to share some of my favorite current sets. These are all offensive Pokemon, no stall stuff :(.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Coil
This is a set I found on the ladder a little bit ago. I really liked this idea, as it just gives you +3 speed and +2 attack, which is insane on a Pokemon which has super bulk. Obviously, this is all thanks to simple (without it, it would get +2 and +1 respectively). Not only does it have Shift Gear, but it also has Coil for that defensive bulk, as well as some extra attack and accuracy (if needed). But, this set isn't unstoppable obviously, because while Zygarde-C is bulky, Ice moves still snatch it's life. Another threat to the set is Topsy-Turvy, which if you don't know, literally eliminates this Pokemon from doing anything if it sets up, so be sure to play around Pokemon with this move like Prankster Chansey. Other threats are status moves like Spore which gives your opponent and opportunity to beat it, and Toxic, which puts it on a timer. Therefore, you will want to have a Magic Bounce user to counter this status. All in all, this is a powerful Zygarde-C set which can sweep teams in an instant, but has a few draw-backs that keep it from sweeping the tier. On an unrelated note, imagine this with Extreme Evoboost in the CFZ meta lol.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Horn Leech
- Ice Hammer
A lot of people already know about this set already but I thought I'd share it anyway. Basically, if you don't know what Triage is, it gives +3 priority to all healing moves. This includes the Drain Punch and Horn Leech you see in the set. This means, you're out speeding a lot of Pokemon, meanwhile doing damage and recovering health. What's not to love about that? This set also carries Swords Dance for extra power, because Drain Punch and Horn Leech aren't all that powerful. Ice Hammer is there simply for coverage. One of the biggest threats to this is of course, are Topsy-Turvy Pokemon. If you accidently set-up not knowing your opponent has one, you're in for something big. Another huge threat is a very Bulky Giratina, which can eat Ice Hammer, Dragon Tail this out, or potentially burn it. Anything else that resists it's two recovery moves is bad as well. Overall, this set is really good, and has very few things holding it back. This doesn't mean it's unbeatable, however, like shown before.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
I found this set very recently on aim's subhub BH episode. I really liked the concept of this, so I decided to use it for myself. This is the exact set he used. Please noticed the Contrary, which gives him +2 special attack for clicking 3 of his 4 moves. Mega Sceptile is fast and has great special attack, making it a natural hard-hitter, with the boost being an added bonus. This can also be paired with Speed Boost Primal Groudon (from what I've seen) to make it faster, and to potentially pass a substitute. There's not much else I can say about this, other than like the previous sets, Topsy-Turvy sends it to the Shadow realm.
@ White Herb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Power Trip
I found this set on the ladder too, but I didn't see much of the set, so we can say that I made some of this set. What you see here is potentially one of the best set-up sweepers in BH. This thing carries Shell Smash with White Herb, getting +2 in it's offensive stats, as well as speed. With Power Trip, it gets to utilize these boosts into a base 140 dark move, allowing massive damage to be put out. It also has Stone Edge for powerful stab, and Ice Punch for Ice coverage. Unlike all the previous sets, this thing actually beats Topsy-Turvy Pokemon, While not only having Magic Bounce to bounce it back, but it's also a Dark-type protecting it from Prankster boosted moves. Speaking of Magic Bounce, this thing makes a great switch-in to Pokemon who want to set-up hazards, sending them to the other side of the field. But that's not all it bounces, it also bounces things like Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave which shut this Pokemon down. Obviously, a Mold Breaker Pokemon with these moves will prove to be an issue. Let's not forget that Mega Tyranitar is also very bulky naturally, with high attack also. All in all, this set is very powerful, and you will very rarely find someone who has a way to beat this with the right team support.
Hope you enjoy these :].
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Coil
This is a set I found on the ladder a little bit ago. I really liked this idea, as it just gives you +3 speed and +2 attack, which is insane on a Pokemon which has super bulk. Obviously, this is all thanks to simple (without it, it would get +2 and +1 respectively). Not only does it have Shift Gear, but it also has Coil for that defensive bulk, as well as some extra attack and accuracy (if needed). But, this set isn't unstoppable obviously, because while Zygarde-C is bulky, Ice moves still snatch it's life. Another threat to the set is Topsy-Turvy, which if you don't know, literally eliminates this Pokemon from doing anything if it sets up, so be sure to play around Pokemon with this move like Prankster Chansey. Other threats are status moves like Spore which gives your opponent and opportunity to beat it, and Toxic, which puts it on a timer. Therefore, you will want to have a Magic Bounce user to counter this status. All in all, this is a powerful Zygarde-C set which can sweep teams in an instant, but has a few draw-backs that keep it from sweeping the tier. On an unrelated note, imagine this with Extreme Evoboost in the CFZ meta lol.
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Horn Leech
- Ice Hammer
A lot of people already know about this set already but I thought I'd share it anyway. Basically, if you don't know what Triage is, it gives +3 priority to all healing moves. This includes the Drain Punch and Horn Leech you see in the set. This means, you're out speeding a lot of Pokemon, meanwhile doing damage and recovering health. What's not to love about that? This set also carries Swords Dance for extra power, because Drain Punch and Horn Leech aren't all that powerful. Ice Hammer is there simply for coverage. One of the biggest threats to this is of course, are Topsy-Turvy Pokemon. If you accidently set-up not knowing your opponent has one, you're in for something big. Another huge threat is a very Bulky Giratina, which can eat Ice Hammer, Dragon Tail this out, or potentially burn it. Anything else that resists it's two recovery moves is bad as well. Overall, this set is really good, and has very few things holding it back. This doesn't mean it's unbeatable, however, like shown before.
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
I found this set very recently on aim's subhub BH episode. I really liked the concept of this, so I decided to use it for myself. This is the exact set he used. Please noticed the Contrary, which gives him +2 special attack for clicking 3 of his 4 moves. Mega Sceptile is fast and has great special attack, making it a natural hard-hitter, with the boost being an added bonus. This can also be paired with Speed Boost Primal Groudon (from what I've seen) to make it faster, and to potentially pass a substitute. There's not much else I can say about this, other than like the previous sets, Topsy-Turvy sends it to the Shadow realm.
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Power Trip
I found this set on the ladder too, but I didn't see much of the set, so we can say that I made some of this set. What you see here is potentially one of the best set-up sweepers in BH. This thing carries Shell Smash with White Herb, getting +2 in it's offensive stats, as well as speed. With Power Trip, it gets to utilize these boosts into a base 140 dark move, allowing massive damage to be put out. It also has Stone Edge for powerful stab, and Ice Punch for Ice coverage. Unlike all the previous sets, this thing actually beats Topsy-Turvy Pokemon, While not only having Magic Bounce to bounce it back, but it's also a Dark-type protecting it from Prankster boosted moves. Speaking of Magic Bounce, this thing makes a great switch-in to Pokemon who want to set-up hazards, sending them to the other side of the field. But that's not all it bounces, it also bounces things like Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave which shut this Pokemon down. Obviously, a Mold Breaker Pokemon with these moves will prove to be an issue. Let's not forget that Mega Tyranitar is also very bulky naturally, with high attack also. All in all, this set is very powerful, and you will very rarely find someone who has a way to beat this with the right team support.
Hope you enjoy these :].
Prankster haze can shut most of these sweepers down in a one on one situation. Though most stall teams can't cope with an onslaught of boosting, so placing 4 or 5 boosters +a prankster haze user of your own to beat impostors is actually a viable strategy in the meta right now.
Yoshi
IT'S FINK DUMBASS
I know this, I even included it as a threat to most of the Pokemon (sort of). You're right, these are very common Pokemon in the meta game, and serve an issue to the Pokemon. However, that's why I added that it is crucial to play around this strategy, and while I didn't include Haze, I did include Topsy-Turvy, which is even more threatening if you think about it.
Which moves they were?
I'm pretty sure Normalize only gives the 20% power boost to moves that weren't originally normal type, which means there are other moves that are more powerful. In particular, Blue Flare and Seed Flare are both more powerful than Boomburst after Normalize, and both have good chances of a potentially useful secondary effect, with no downside other than the drop in accuracy. Water Spout and Eruption are also possibilities, as they have significantly more power as long as you're at full health, without any drop in accuracy. But overall Boomburst is probably the best option because it is accurate and has consistent power.
PS gives the boost to boomburst as well. I dont know how to search the battle mechanics thread
TT doesnt hit dark types and priority immune abilities
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Yoshi
IT'S FINK DUMBASS
Yeah I know, I wasn't talking about Tyranitar, as that's not what he was talking about either. He was targeting the Pokemon that do get affected by Topsy-Turvy, so I provided my counterargument.
Yoshi
IT'S FINK DUMBASS
Yeah it's back haha. It's only been a few weeks now, and most people are just starting to catch on.
Sweet Jesus
Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
2 Dope sets that are responsible for 60% of my wins lately
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Metal Burst/Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Coil/Toxic (many other options really)
- Recover
- Baton Pass
This thing is one of my greatet creations in all my years of playing this game. I was actually hesitant sharing it but quite a lot of people noticed it and I figured it would end up here one day or another. Some people might have seen similar defensive pokemon but with unaware, however chansey has enough special bulk to tank boosted special attackers and can run magic bounce. The result is that chansey doesn't just stop sweepers from setting up, it completely shuts down anything that can't make over 50% (on the physical side obviously) unless it has mold breaker, choice scarf trick or is a normal type setting up. Sure it may look like deadweight once it's on the field, but if chansey has nothing to do, it simply baton passes to the appropriate offensive threat and will nearly always tank the hit for them since very few mons are slower than chansey and actually hit hard. Anything trying to set up will eat a spectral thief even behind a substitute and you can then baton pass those boosts to an ally. This being said substiute can be quite a pain since your main pp stalling move gets you out of the field (and therefore doesn't pp stall at all really). I highly suggest pairing this mon with something that has boomburst (and probably safety goggles since the most common sub user is probably spore/oblivion wing/sub/tail glow megaRay) such as the set right underneath this one.
A special mention to chansey too for being such a great lure to fool the infamous entrainment normalize gengar. It usualy wastes a turn using entrainment then uses shell smash and gets it's boosts stolen and passed on to your own sweeper while it switches out in despair.
Arceus @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Moongeist Beam
- Quiver Dance
- Shore Up
Arceus has become such a monster with the new EV system and this set is a perfect way to abuse it. Usage is pretty straight forward. You set up and with unaware, you don't need to worry about your opponent trying to set up simultaneously. Although a ground move would probably be the most optimal coverage, moongeist beam hits shedinja and other unaware threats. Arceus's physical bulk is usualy enough to live any priority move other than triage drain punch and the main worry you'll have about prankster users is spore which is why you should run safety goggles. Lum berry is also an option if you fear nuzzle or toxic spikes. Do prepare yourself to counter imposter chansey as although you can pp stall him (boomburst does around 35-40% to arceus and 12-15% to chansey regardless of boosts), it can simply switch out when you're forced to recover and come back and pp stall you. The chansey just above is capable of tanking a +6 boomburst after rocks and metalbursting it back to it's face, but it can be a dangerous bet.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Metal Burst/Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Coil/Toxic (many other options really)
- Recover
- Baton Pass
This thing is one of my greatet creations in all my years of playing this game. I was actually hesitant sharing it but quite a lot of people noticed it and I figured it would end up here one day or another. Some people might have seen similar defensive pokemon but with unaware, however chansey has enough special bulk to tank boosted special attackers and can run magic bounce. The result is that chansey doesn't just stop sweepers from setting up, it completely shuts down anything that can't make over 50% (on the physical side obviously) unless it has mold breaker, choice scarf trick or is a normal type setting up. Sure it may look like deadweight once it's on the field, but if chansey has nothing to do, it simply baton passes to the appropriate offensive threat and will nearly always tank the hit for them since very few mons are slower than chansey and actually hit hard. Anything trying to set up will eat a spectral thief even behind a substitute and you can then baton pass those boosts to an ally. This being said substiute can be quite a pain since your main pp stalling move gets you out of the field (and therefore doesn't pp stall at all really). I highly suggest pairing this mon with something that has boomburst (and probably safety goggles since the most common sub user is probably spore/oblivion wing/sub/tail glow megaRay) such as the set right underneath this one.
A special mention to chansey too for being such a great lure to fool the infamous entrainment normalize gengar. It usualy wastes a turn using entrainment then uses shell smash and gets it's boosts stolen and passed on to your own sweeper while it switches out in despair.
Arceus @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Moongeist Beam
- Quiver Dance
- Shore Up
Arceus has become such a monster with the new EV system and this set is a perfect way to abuse it. Usage is pretty straight forward. You set up and with unaware, you don't need to worry about your opponent trying to set up simultaneously. Although a ground move would probably be the most optimal coverage, moongeist beam hits shedinja and other unaware threats. Arceus's physical bulk is usualy enough to live any priority move other than triage drain punch and the main worry you'll have about prankster users is spore which is why you should run safety goggles. Lum berry is also an option if you fear nuzzle or toxic spikes. Do prepare yourself to counter imposter chansey as although you can pp stall him (boomburst does around 35-40% to arceus and 12-15% to chansey regardless of boosts), it can simply switch out when you're forced to recover and come back and pp stall you. The chansey just above is capable of tanking a +6 boomburst after rocks and metalbursting it back to it's face, but it can be a dangerous bet.
Spectral Thief bypasses substitute and none of that hits Sturdy Shedinja (forcing a switch in which case you lose your boosts). Not to say this is a bad set, but those are two weaknesses.Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
But, WHY. What are the reasons behind this?
As user Govhatanks said:
"Its allowed to have over 510 EV's in local battle"
Its been verified that such a feat is possible in game, and as BH aims to mimic whats possible in the cartridge, thats why the mechanic has changed.
Ok, thanks :-)
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Sturdy Shedinja is kind of silly because almost everything just kills it nowadays, and that isn't even the best way to beat this set because if you can keep up rocks, you can bypass it.
Honestly I think the biggest problem with that set is its susceptibility to Imposters. In theory, Sceptile should be able to beat them with Substitute, but in practice they can just switch in, take the hit, and force Sceptile out.
"Paleolithic screen". It was a device used in ancient times to access the popular website Pokémon Showdown.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
I was just responding to the someone saying the set is countered by Shedinja, as for PS, it still didn't show the 1.2x boost when you drag your mouse over a move (any move), like it does for the -ates abilities.
I thought PS was short hand for an ability that was supposed to boost it!
RNGIsFatal
Banned deucer.
As idle as we were in this thread, I would like to 'reactivate' this thread by posting my stance on removal of EV limitation:
* APS is notably weaker: such as, MMY needs Earth Power to OHKO Primal Groudon at +2, and Mega Gengar can no longer OHKO Mega Rayquaza with +2 Moongeist Beam.
* Poison Heal users are significantly more powerful with extra EV's in defensive stats.
* Imposter-proofing is more important, since they now also copy extra EV's and multiply them by 1.5 with Eviolite. (most Imposters are Chansey, if you didn't know already)
* Innards Out is now more exploitable, and now teambuilding forces everyone to think twice before giving 252 EV on attack on things like Registeel or Mega Audino.
* Giratina and Zygarde-C is now the best mixed wall in the metagame.
I want to hear different opinions.
* APS is notably weaker: such as, MMY needs Earth Power to OHKO Primal Groudon at +2, and Mega Gengar can no longer OHKO Mega Rayquaza with +2 Moongeist Beam.
* Poison Heal users are significantly more powerful with extra EV's in defensive stats.
* Imposter-proofing is more important, since they now also copy extra EV's and multiply them by 1.5 with Eviolite. (most Imposters are Chansey, if you didn't know already)
* Innards Out is now more exploitable, and now teambuilding forces everyone to think twice before giving 252 EV on attack on things like Registeel or Mega Audino.
* Giratina and Zygarde-C is now the best mixed wall in the metagame.
I want to hear different opinions.
morogrim
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
After being inactive in the BH scene for a while (for obvious reasons), I came back after WB was banned since that definitely was a step in the right direction and made the meta playable again. I was able to play both before the EV limit removal and after it, and I wanted to share my opinions on the matter (spoiler alert: I'm a prophet and a half):
- APS
After the WB ban, this would have been imo the next biggest suspect for gen7. However, after the EV limit was removed I feel like APS in general received a huge indirect nerf. This is mainly due to the fact that many walls and even some bulky offensive mons now survive things that they wouldn't have with the 510 EV limit. Take the general walls for example: even a dedicated physical wall like FC Giratina can now act as a special sponge in a pinch thanks to its amazing mixed bulk and the extra 252 EVs in SpD. As a result, I don't see APS being banworthy anymore.
- Innards Out
I'll keep it short here since I will be discussing my opinions on IO on the IO suspect thread. The main reason why IO is not competitive imo is the fact that it has way too much reward for minimal effort or skill (much like CFZ spam which was banned). In the hands of any half-decent player, IO can net a key KO which can allow their sweeper to defeat the opponent's team. What's more is that it doesn't even require any big plays for it to happen: the IO user just needs to get a prediction right one time. Just one switch into a key wall that is using a physical move (such as U-turn) and boom, you can now start to sweep. Note that there is a big emphasis here on IO being able to net a key KO which alongside its low risk/drawback quality make it a far superior choice when you compare to similar abilities that have similar effects. Again, I won't go into too much detail here since I will be posting on the IO thread, but imo IO should be qb'd.
- Zygarde-c
I still stand by what I said earlier, Zygarde is one of the few mons that has forced many offensive threats in the meta to run Ice coverage just because of its existence. In fact, in many cases, having Ice coverage is probably not the most optimal choice in terms of coverage for these offensive mons (take Pdon for example which runs Ice coverage most of the time atm). The mere possibility of the opponent team having a Zygarde in it has forced many players to go out of their way to add Ice coverage into the movesets of their wallbreakers and sweepers. If you ask me, that sounds very centralizing. I think that Zygarde-c should be suspected.
- Pdon and Pgre
They were banworthy with the EV limitation, I could only imagine how good they are now. The EV limit removal has been a huge indirect buff to both of these mons. Pgre is probably the best PH sweeper atm, (yes, even better than Regigigas imo just due to being able to have perfect coverage while still being Imposter proof) being able to be defensively invested while also having full investment in SpA, SpD, and Spe! This means that this thing has physical bulk while still hitting like a truck, being able to outspeed MMY at +1, AND still having colossal special bulk. This is while Pdon is....well Pdon. You can literally slap pretty much any set on that thing and it'll still be pretty damn good. Ban these two already (or don't, I love abusing Pgre).
- APS
After the WB ban, this would have been imo the next biggest suspect for gen7. However, after the EV limit was removed I feel like APS in general received a huge indirect nerf. This is mainly due to the fact that many walls and even some bulky offensive mons now survive things that they wouldn't have with the 510 EV limit. Take the general walls for example: even a dedicated physical wall like FC Giratina can now act as a special sponge in a pinch thanks to its amazing mixed bulk and the extra 252 EVs in SpD. As a result, I don't see APS being banworthy anymore.
- Innards Out
I'll keep it short here since I will be discussing my opinions on IO on the IO suspect thread. The main reason why IO is not competitive imo is the fact that it has way too much reward for minimal effort or skill (much like CFZ spam which was banned). In the hands of any half-decent player, IO can net a key KO which can allow their sweeper to defeat the opponent's team. What's more is that it doesn't even require any big plays for it to happen: the IO user just needs to get a prediction right one time. Just one switch into a key wall that is using a physical move (such as U-turn) and boom, you can now start to sweep. Note that there is a big emphasis here on IO being able to net a key KO which alongside its low risk/drawback quality make it a far superior choice when you compare to similar abilities that have similar effects. Again, I won't go into too much detail here since I will be posting on the IO thread, but imo IO should be qb'd.
- Zygarde-c
I still stand by what I said earlier, Zygarde is one of the few mons that has forced many offensive threats in the meta to run Ice coverage just because of its existence. In fact, in many cases, having Ice coverage is probably not the most optimal choice in terms of coverage for these offensive mons (take Pdon for example which runs Ice coverage most of the time atm). The mere possibility of the opponent team having a Zygarde in it has forced many players to go out of their way to add Ice coverage into the movesets of their wallbreakers and sweepers. If you ask me, that sounds very centralizing. I think that Zygarde-c should be suspected.
- Pdon and Pgre
They were banworthy with the EV limitation, I could only imagine how good they are now. The EV limit removal has been a huge indirect buff to both of these mons. Pgre is probably the best PH sweeper atm, (yes, even better than Regigigas imo just due to being able to have perfect coverage while still being Imposter proof) being able to be defensively invested while also having full investment in SpA, SpD, and Spe! This means that this thing has physical bulk while still hitting like a truck, being able to outspeed MMY at +1, AND still having colossal special bulk. This is while Pdon is....well Pdon. You can literally slap pretty much any set on that thing and it'll still be pretty damn good. Ban these two already (or don't, I love abusing Pgre).
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