1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokémon Banette

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by AccidentalGreed, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,663
    HELLO CHILDREN.

    I'm Banette, #354, and I have:

    [​IMG]
    Type: [​IMG]
    Ability:
    Insomnia / Frisk / Cursed Body (Hidden Ability)
    Base Stats: 64 / 115 / 65 / 83 / 63 / 65

    ...and when I'm given a stone of everlasting power (okay well actually it lasts till I die, but whatever), I attain much, much, more scary magic:

    [​IMG]
    Type: [​IMG]
    Ability:
    Prankster
    Base Stats: 64 / 165 / 75 / 93 / 83 / 75

    ---
    Notable Moves:
    Calm Mind
    Confuse Ray
    Destiny Bond
    Disable
    Gunk Shot
    Hidden Power
    Imprison
    Pursuit
    Shadow Ball
    Shadow Claw

    Shadow Sneak
    Substitute
    Sucker Punch
    Taunt
    Thunder
    Thunder Wave
    Thunderbolt
    Will-O-Wisp

    General Analysis:

    Now that I've stopped speaking in Banettespeak: quite frankly, the only reason you'd want to use Banette is because of its Mega Evolution. Yes, while this does take up your single Mega Slot, Mega Banette is dangerous by itself for good reasons. The most notable changes it receives after evolving is a giant increase in Attack, in addition to the much-welcome Prankster ability. Small changes include an increase to its Special Attack, making special attacks much more usable, and defenses, though they're not too fantastic.

    So now the question is: why would you want to use this thing? Admittedly even to me, the answer is quite hard to come up with, seeing as a proper metagame doesn't even exist at the moment. However, looking at its stats, movepool, ability, the first thing that may come to mind in terms of roles is an slow but powerful anti-threat. Basically, with the presumed popularity of many threats in addition to Mega Evolutions such as Lucario-M and Gengar-M, Banette can be counted on to keep some of them in check thanks to priority Destiny Bond and Shadow Sneak. It can also temporarily stop defensive teams in their tracks with Taunt and Will-o-Wisp, though its actual effectiveness with both of these moves remains to be seen. Additionally, its Ghost typing obviously allows it to block Rapid Spin, and with its options, it can keep several common Rapid Spin users in check. Of course, Mega Banette is limited in terms of bulk and offensive options, but it has just enough to keep the opponent guessing. Custap + Destiny Bond Wobbuffet, v2.

    Possible Moveset(s):

    Keep in mind that this is tentative!

    [​IMG]


    name: Prankster (Mega)
    move 1: Shadow Sneak
    move 2: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Destiny Bond
    item: Banettenite
    ability: Insomnia / Frisk
    nature: Brave / Naughty
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA

    This is a basic mixed-offensive/stallbreaker set desgined to keep Mega-Gengar in check, and use its priority Destiny Bond to take down a dangerous threat should you feel overwhelmed (or desire a tie instead of a loss, should circumstances come to that). Shadow Sneak is obviously the main move for the common fast Psychic- and Ghost-types flying around, and has become more useful this generation thanks to Steel's neutrality to it (so it can check Jirachi in the future). Thunderbolt and Thunder are simple coverage moves, and ensure Banette can just put Skarmory out of commission rather than stop it temporarily with Taunt. Speaking of which, Taunt gives Banette a way to play around defensive Pokemon, preventing Ferrothorn and Blissey and other defensive behemoths from trying to set up on it. It's also a way to ensure that the Pokemon attacks Banette, which it can use to lure them into Destiny Bond. Will-o-Wisp can also replace Taunt, though Banette is better off suiciding against Lucario-M and other attackers anyway.

    Other possible sets: Offensive set with one support option, and stallbreaker set (which may have competition with Sableye).

    Checks and Counters:

    As long as Banette is alive and it's able to use its priority Destiny Bond, you can't exactly knock this thing out safely. Like other Prankster-reliant Pokemon, however, Banette's user is also prone to messing up in mind games, so random or well-timed attacks should eventually put it down, though again, beware of Destiny Bond. The more safer approach is to continually force it out and use entry hazards to wear it down until it faints. Tyranitar is a cool counter (answer: Destiny Bond), since it can stop Banette from safely switching out with Pursuit, and wear it down with sandstorm. Banette also can't switch into many attacks due to its average bulk, and easily falls to faster forms of priority if they exist.

    Personal Opinion and Conclusion:

    Man, just...priority Destiny Bond, man. It's not the greatest Pokemon, Prankster user, nor Mega evolution out there, and it would have rather preferred a Speed boost. However, with the amount of dangerous things out there, I think Banette may actually turn out to be a cool option, especially considering it was sort of needed last generation with threats like Scarf Salamence and Dragon Dance Dragonite running amok. It also has problems facing off against a high number of Pokemon, but, again, the answer too all that is Taunt and Destiny Bond. It's a solid thing, by itself, and a decent addition to teams that find themselves easily overwhelmed by a specific threat, especially considering most people are gaining fetishes for Gengar. I predict it'll find itself a great home in a lower tier, but still have great presence in standard play.
    Kooltrex, SeTorsque, Hyota and 8 others like this.
  2. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast (im)patiently waiting for SPL
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,554
    My biggest worry about Bannette is that I'm not sure if Prankster activates on the turn you MegaEvolve. If it does you're golden, but if not Bannette is going to be VERY difficult to use competitively. I just posed that question in the battle mechanics thread so we should have an answer soon (fuck me not having WiFi...).

    Even if Bannette can use Prankster the turn it MegaEvolves, it's a bit too frail to do anything besides revenge kill something with Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch or use Protect on that first turn, leaving it a lot less threatening (let's be real, nobody is going to use Choiced Normal-types with MegaGengar around). Fortunately for Bannette though, it is absolutely a huge threat to any team packing a MegaGengar. As long as Bannette is around, it has the potential to really fuck up Gengar with either Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch, priority Thunder Wave, or even Shadow Ball + Prankster Imprison. And while we won't be seeing this for a couple months, Cursed Body Bannette got Cotton Guard from an event way back when, meaning Bannette has a good shot at fixing its subpar bulk (although Will-O-Wisp may be preferable).
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    Terrible physical movepool ftl. At least he has some cool moves that can take advantage of Prankster. Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Destiny Bond are pretty much mandatory to make the most out of Banette imo. Even then, it's probably not worth wasting a Mega Evolution when you can be using Thundurus for similar Prankster support or Aegislash for a kick-ass physical Ghost mon and save Mega Evolution for something less mediocre.
    Kooltrex and blaziken1337 like this.
  4. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,406
    AccidentalGreed

    I'm almost 100% sure that someone confirmed Phantom Force as an Egg move for Banette in the Research thread.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  5. Anartya

    Anartya

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    338
    Has anyone thought of Trick Room

    Banette
    name: Prankster (Mega)
    move 1: Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw
    move 2: Trick Room
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Destiny Bond
    item: Banettenite
    ability: Insomnia / Frisk
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Or Frisk + Mega Evolve + Trick:

    Banette
    name: Prankster (Mega)
    move 1: Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw
    move 2: Trick
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Destiny Bond
    item: Banettenite
    ability: Frisk
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk


    Ghost is only resisted by Dark and immune to Normal so any fighting type partner would keep it clear from them
    KumongaTheGiantSpider likes this.
  6. Hopkinc1

    Hopkinc1

    Joined:
    May 14, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Trick Room is his main set when it comes to NU, it allows for a TR set up and a Destiny bond, and you have Focus Sash.Focus Sash is part of the reason I think Bannette is going to flop as a mega (at least competatively). It has NO defenses, making Focus Sash mandatory to do well...anything.
  7. Alert to Sounds

    Alert to Sounds

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    It's too bad that Trick Room still sits at -6 priority (I think) even after Prankster. Priority Destiny Bond will indeed be annoying to face, and very helpful for a Trick Room set.
  8. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,663
    Yeah, I don't think I'm really feeling it for Trick Room, since Banette only has so much coverage and bulk to set it up successfully with little trouble. I sorta wrote the OP assuming Banette would be used in standard play.

    And yeah in regards to Banette's usability, the main reason to use it is pretty much priority Destiny Bond, which plays mind games with opponents in combination with Taunt. Like I said, nothing too amazing, and I'm sort of hoping to discover some sort of great way to use this thing, though two moves + Taunt + Destiny Bond really goes a long way.
  9. Rhodes Scholar

    Rhodes Scholar

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    Okay, this is really dumb. I really like Banette, so I decided that the first pokemon I was gonna' breed and EV in my game was a Mega Banette because of the Prankster options, and it's one of my favorite pokemon anyway, so why not. So, like, I went hardcore and chained a bunch of Dittos and Shuppets together and I got this finally out of an egg, which was perfect for the set I was going to be running with it:

    Adamant-Insomnia 31/31/31/xx/31/xx

    -Shadow Sneak
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Taunt
    -Destiny Bond
    Item: Banettite
    Ability: Insomnia (Prankster)
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252HP/252Att/4Def

    So, yeah, worked hard and bred that monster of an IV'd Shuppet. EV'd it up and evolved it Banette. While this whole thing was going on, though, in the back of my head I was still a little worried that Prankster might not work the same turn you Mega Evolve, but I kept working on the Banette anyway. I finish it up, it's perfect, IVs, EVs, move set and nature/item. I now finally decide to test it out just so I can finally make sure...... And Game Freak completely ruins Mega Banette now. Basically, When you Mega Evolve, Prankster does DOES work during the same turn, so you need to actually take the turn to be endurable and set up your Mega Evolution. This SEVERELY hampers Banette's usefulness in the metagame because the turn it goes Mega, it's sitting there getting outspeed and could potentially die with even having done anything. So, my past two days of working on this Banette is now wasted unless I can figure out a team to work with it that allows for the free Mega Evolution set up.

    All in all, Prankster does NOT work the same turn you Mega Evolve, this was test in-game.
    Kooltrex and Luigifan like this.
  10. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,550
    Ah yes, this thing was probably the worst Ghost-type ever throughout its entire existence; terrible stats, no real efficient strategy, and a poor movepool. The Dusks can never match Banette in how shitty it is.

    Mega Banette though is looking rather interesting, Prankster with a cool support movepool with tools like Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp looks fun, and it could get a free kill with Prankster D-Bond and be a decent anti-lead. With both WoW and T-Wave it could also be used to bombard the opponent's team with status. It definitely won't be the best MEvo, but it's looking like Banette will finally see some use.
    Kooltrex and Luigifan like this.
  11. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,959
    The option of quickly hitting things with either Paralysis or Burn is a great selling point. It's two different ways of crippling a foe, so the Pokemon that don't mind one would risk taking the other. As long as its moveset remains a mystery, playing against thing thing won't be easy.
  12. Frisodium

    Frisodium

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Well, while prankster doesn't activate the turn you megaevolve, Banette still has priority in Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, wich will activate the megaevo and will benefit from the attack buff. You could just use ir to revenge kill a weakened foe and then use priority will-o-wisp or thunder wave to ruin the newcomer. Priority Destiny Bond is always an option, thought. And last, but not least: how about a substitute+disable set, similar to gengar's? (wich while having a better type, it isn't really much bulky) It even has priority pain split to add to the mix, so maybe a subsplit set with toxic may be interesting.
    Kooltrex, Luigifan and SilverKnight like this.
  13. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    865
    After seeing this thing get Prankster + Destiny Bond, it immediately reminded me of the Escavalier set in Balanced Hackmons that used a powerful Gyro Ball alongside Prankster + Destiny Bond. The goal was simply to use Destiny Bond, take the next two hits under Destiny Bond's effect before using Gyro Ball due to Escavalier's low speed, and use Destiny Bond again the next turn before the opponent gets a chance to attack. By using this pattern, Escavalier could guarantee that the opponent would die by Gyro Ball or die alongside Escavalier by Destiny Bond, provided they didn't wear it down with passive damage instead of outright attacking it. I'm hoping Mega Banette would be able to pull off something like this. Of course, there are some differences. Mega Banette doesn't have the same great bulk and defensive typing that Escavalier does, its STAB Shadow Claw is nowhere near as powerful as Escavalier's STAB Gyro Ball, and its speed is still fast enough to outspeed many slower Pokemon. However, it'll be an interesting little trick to try. Even if that doesn't pan out so well, Prankster + Destiny Bond is just a nice tool in general.
  14. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    At first I saw Prankster / Thunder Wave / Confuse Ray / Substitute and thought Liepard, but thankfully it doesn't get Leftovers. I would have flipped over a table if Liepard 2.0 came in.

    Honestly, though...

    Mega Banette (SubDisable)
    Item: Banettenite
    Ability: Insomnia / Cursed Body (Prankster)
    IVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Destiny Bond / Return / Gunk Shot (was an Egg Move in Gen V; hasn't yet been confirmed)
    - Phantom Force / Shadow Sneak

    With priority Substitute and Disable, it seems like a physical Gengar. Now that Normal + Ghost has near perfect coverage, Return and Phantom Force / Shadow Sneak is a very good attacking duo coming off of that obscene physical Attack stat. Gunk Shot is stronger and can hit things for super-effective damage (including the total destruction of Fairy-types), but it has just a tiny bit less coverage than Return and only has 80% accuracy. Destiny Bond is great with Prankster, but leaves you with only one attack to work with in Banette's rather barren movepool. If using Destiny Bond + Shadow Sneak, then switch IVs to 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd and an Adamant nature.
    Luigifan likes this.
  15. unfixable

    unfixable #freehulavuta
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,425
    This thing just says fuck you mega gengar.
  16. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    That sucks, but there are still ways to get around this, like Protecting the first turn, or using it to revenge kill something or force a switch. Definitely bad, but not exactly crippling.
    KingHeracrossTheBug and Luigifan like this.
  17. TheReflexWonder

    TheReflexWonder

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    I imagine this thing could be very scary if it manages to get past the first turn. Matched up with another slow-but-otherwise-viable-Pokémon-with-a-Mega-Form on a Trick Room team, someone might expect the Suicide Lead for getting Trick Room up when seeing Team Preview and have to eat this instead.

    Destiny Bond provides insurance against most Pokémon until you can Trick Room at the end of next turn, which then gives you four turns to "outspeed" most things to smack with Ghost move and Gunk Shot/Return/Thunder/what have you. Not incredibly scary on its own, but given that the pressure of Prankster Destiny Bond can give you a free trade against a lot at any point, making your opponent think twice would allow you to put the hurt on people for a few turns.
    Luigifan likes this.
  18. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,704
    Mega Banette actually seems really cool, because even though it's bulk isn't very good and it lacks Recover, it has 4 awesome moves to use with Prankster in Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Wave / Taunt / Destiny Bond. There is no Prankster user with Destiny Bond, and there is no Prankster user with both Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave.

    Mega Banette's physical movepool is very disappointing, but Phantom Force is actually a viable option on it (probably the only Pokemon I would recommend using a chargeup move on besides Ghost-Arceus)! Because Banette is slow (should probably use a -Speed and 0 Speed IVs if you do this), you will probably underspeed whatever the opponent might try to switch in, so you do not have to fear of being revenged by whatever the opponent switches in on the turn you use Phantom Force. Lowering the Speed doesn't affect you negatively much because all of your moves besides Phantom Force (Thunderbolt is listed in the OP, but I would rather just use Will-o-Wisp instead) have priority. While you could say that Banette's priority would then underspeed other priority users, all of the priority users besides Conkeldurr and Scizor would outspeed you anyways, and Conkeldurr cannot even hit Banette! Scizor, however, is a very legitimate threat, although it Speed ties with Banette. I guess mega Banette could run a few extra Speed EVs to outspeed Scizor, but that's the dangerous slope of Speed creep, and certain Scizor's use 252 Speed EVs.

    I'm not sure I could see Mega Banette in OU or anything, as cool as priority Destiny Bond is, but it will definitely be an interesting option in whatever tier it ends up in.
  19. TheReflexWonder

    TheReflexWonder

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    I think that momentum from unpredictability would be huge for it. It's pretty reliant on the threat of Destiny Bond, but I could see it getting free Subs, status, or getting hit with that huge Attack stat (though it has little to use it with) with people trying to wait out Destiny Bond or anticipate Trick Room. Seems like it forces a 50/50 from opponents that can either lead to wreaking havoc or having done nothing, but if it gets in, it always has the conservative option of relying on Destiny Bond or Memento to at least guarantee something.

    It has too many marks going against it, though; few attacking options, bad defensive stats for getting it to Mega in the first place, and rough four-moveslot syndrome (if it wants to be difficult to check). I can't imagine it being very useful without significant team support, but it certainly looks like it'll be one of the most fun things to use this generation. :)
    Luigifan likes this.
  20. Bombkirby

    Bombkirby

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    461
    Anyone know if the friend safari versions have painsplit?
    Luigifan likes this.
  21. cellgoondude

    cellgoondude

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    One thing screams Banette is screwed. Any other prankster pokemon with taunt.
  22. unfixable

    unfixable #freehulavuta
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,425
    It's too bad it will mainly be making use of Prankster, I for one wanted to try out an offensive set. His movepool might be bland, but I see a set consisting of Thunder Wave | Phantom Force | Sucker Punch | Gunk Shot. It hits Fairies hard, and has nice coverage otherwise. Yes, it is walled entirely by all Steel-types, but there are other Pokemon to handle those, all Pokemon have counters. It doesn't have downright horrible Speed, and Thunder Wave cripples the opponent to make room for it to attack first.
    Luigifan likes this.
  23. Cogg

    Cogg

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    27
    Personally thinking Trick Room is underrated on this thing. Focus Sash would work well, and Taunt + Sucker Punch is always viable, especially with Will-O-Wisp. I'm IV breeding a Shuppet now, can't wait to wreak havoc with it. Great situationally, but it won't work on just any team.
    Luigifan likes this.
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    I've read a few posts stating that Prankster doesn't activate on the turn Banette Mega Evolves.. This mechanic would hurt Banette's usage if it is really true
    Luigifan likes this.
  25. Cogg

    Cogg

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    27
    Prankster should work the turn he evolves, it'd be ridiculous if it didn't; Mega evolution always occurs before the battle phase, so Prankster should take effect once it has evolved. If it does, Trick Room becomes a good option.
    Luigifan likes this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)