The problem with its 165 attack stat us that it barely uses it. Most MBanettes run 3 status moves and 1 attack move, which almost never gets used because Prankster is much better than attacking. if MBanette had gotten more defensive stats rather than attack upon MEvoing, it'd probably by OU easily. As of now, with horrible 4MSS and easily getting one shotted by various threats, it's more work than necessary to use it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Banette
- Thread starter AccidentalGreed
- Start date
- Status
Having read most of what you've written you've kind of completely glanced over one of the most important aspects most being EV spreads for our favourite vengeful puppet ghost.
One thing I've noted having used him since Gen 6 started is it stands in a bit of a unique middle ground with it's stats where EV'ing makes a huge difference and can turn it one way or another. Even with no EV's and no +Atk nature it still stands at the same attack as a fully maxed 115 base Pokemon, when fully invested it goes into a league of it's own and even half invested you're looking at the equivilent of a Neutral base 100 +1 Atk Pokemon.
Same goes for it's speed of 75, it beats a lot of slow tanks yet isn't so fast it can really invest in it fully, yet also happens to be fast enough to outspeed some things like T-tar/Scizor pre or post-mega. Even defenses are worth looking at, they're too low to go without investment however you can't invest in both, it's better to specialize in one but if you're willing to do so you find it can reach usable stats depending on your needs. Only truly useless stat I'd say is it's s.atk which whilst decent is pointless to use which is annoying considering it's got a better movepool on it's special side.
I believe there is more to consider far as EV'ing goes than there is in movesets which is very much up to preference and needs.
This is the set I mostly use.
Name: There's Still Hope
Move 1: Sucker Punch
Move 2: Shadow Claw/Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Destiny Bond
Item: Banettite
Ability: Frisk
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Speed / 252 HP / 4 Attack
This Mega Banette is mostly for that moment I accidentally let the opponent's Scizor set up a Swords Dance or Azumarill set up Belly Drum. Prankster and max Speed should allow Mega Banette to use Destiny Bond before (Mega) Scizor's Bullet Punch and Azumarill's Aqua Jet. And with it being a Ghost-type, it has nothing to fear from Fake Out or Extremespeed. But this set is of one use only, meaning if your opponent carries more than one sweeper and you let a boost slip, you're dead.
Name: There's Still Hope
Move 1: Sucker Punch
Move 2: Shadow Claw/Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Destiny Bond
Item: Banettite
Ability: Frisk
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Speed / 252 HP / 4 Attack
This Mega Banette is mostly for that moment I accidentally let the opponent's Scizor set up a Swords Dance or Azumarill set up Belly Drum. Prankster and max Speed should allow Mega Banette to use Destiny Bond before (Mega) Scizor's Bullet Punch and Azumarill's Aqua Jet. And with it being a Ghost-type, it has nothing to fear from Fake Out or Extremespeed. But this set is of one use only, meaning if your opponent carries more than one sweeper and you let a boost slip, you're dead.
Last edited:
As I stated, this was all just the stuff that came to mind as I thought about it. What I wrote is hardly exhaustive, nor is it a "smogon analysis." All that is me just reasoning out some things. And while EVs are important, no doubt, even a creature with amazing stats is not much use without a decent movepool (this kind of thing is the basis of "Trollfreak" after all)
TLDR: I'm brainstorming and posting what's on my mind in the thread because it's on topic, can get feedback, and might be helpful to someone. Plus, it actually puts it down in writing, rather than just being in my head.
I run a mega-banette with a similar build, but with the attack and speed EVs swapped, nature being adamant, and move 2 being shadow claw. It's one of those sets that sound awful until used in practice, the set is very useful surprisingly. With taunt, it prevents pokemon from toxic or burn stalling it to death, barring options such as scald. The Shadow Claw / Sucker Punch combo two hits most pokemon. But unfortunately, it is also the most prediction heavy set I can think of in Pokemon as one miscalculation can result in a dead banette without taking anything down.
Also for checks and counters for Banette, Talonflame will walk all over banette with priority Brave Bird and won't have to worry about being D-Bonded because it outspeeds banette and will one shot it.
Guys, I need a little help configuring my MBanette speed. I know the general consensus is that the lower the speed the better. However since I run taunt on my set, I dont want to lose the chance to Mega-evolve and taunt obvious setup lead lke Ferrothorn, Shuckle, Forretres. While I dont think it will be able to outspeed Galvantula before mega-evolving, I want to be able to at least taunt the slower pokemon. Will I be still be able to do that even with Brave nature and low speed iv?
I dont really understand since I dont play by Smogon tier, but is this debate on which tier MBanette go really important? I mean, I usually play against passerby and I doubt many of them play by smogon tier, especially the Japanese. While I understand that you are not allowed to use pokemon from higher tier in lower tier(use Uber pokemon in OU tier or OU pokemon in UU tier), can you use pokemon from lower tier in higher tier game(use OU pokemon in Uber tier game for example)? If this is allowed, I dont see any reason why I should be against Mega Banette to be in lower tier.
I dont really understand since I dont play by Smogon tier, but is this debate on which tier MBanette go really important? I mean, I usually play against passerby and I doubt many of them play by smogon tier, especially the Japanese. While I understand that you are not allowed to use pokemon from higher tier in lower tier(use Uber pokemon in OU tier or OU pokemon in UU tier), can you use pokemon from lower tier in higher tier game(use OU pokemon in Uber tier game for example)? If this is allowed, I dont see any reason why I should be against Mega Banette to be in lower tier.
Those pokemon are extremely slow, the only way I believe Ferrothorn and forretres can outspeed you even with low speed is for them to invest 252 speed, a speed boosting nature, and holding a choice scarf. Banette has a base speed of 65 while Ferrothorn has 20 base speed and forretres having 40. With shuckle it is impossible because of it's base 5 speed.
And the debate on which tier M-Banette is a little important, just not for the OU tier. But if M-Banette were to be released in something like NU, it would be on almost every team and considered one of the largest threats there. Meanwhile if it were placed in OU, it might not see much use and only used as a niche once in a blue moon. You are quite capable of using a pokemon of lower tiers in OU and some with great effect, but you cannot use a higher tier pokemon in the lower tiers than what it is ranked as it is deemed too powerful there.
These are several examples, I also want to be able to successfully taunt Venusaur Sleep Powder, Rotom WoW...Basically, I want to know if by investing a certain speed I will be able to outspeed certain status threat and if it is worth the investment
Not quite sure why you'd Taunt Venusaur as you run the risk of it outright steamrolling you, do realize it still packs 122 S.Atk and 100 Atk base...
I'm assuming you mean before Mega Evolution or first turn Taunt against non-speed invested Rotom-W/Mega Venu, where Banette still uses the old speed and I'm not sure it's worth the investment at all.
You'd need Adamant and 124 speed to beat Venu whilst Rotom-W would require over 172 speed, I believe this remains true for both Lv. 50 and Lv.100. That assumes both are fully defensive with no speed investment at all, which I highly doubt in Venusaur's case as it can speed creep a few important things but more likely in Rotom's due to it's lacking HP and it's love for sponging things.
Just doesn't seem worth forgoing the defensive investment just to beat them on the first turn.
I'm assuming you mean before Mega Evolution or first turn Taunt against non-speed invested Rotom-W/Mega Venu, where Banette still uses the old speed and I'm not sure it's worth the investment at all.
You'd need Adamant and 124 speed to beat Venu whilst Rotom-W would require over 172 speed, I believe this remains true for both Lv. 50 and Lv.100. That assumes both are fully defensive with no speed investment at all, which I highly doubt in Venusaur's case as it can speed creep a few important things but more likely in Rotom's due to it's lacking HP and it's love for sponging things.
Just doesn't seem worth forgoing the defensive investment just to beat them on the first turn.
I just have a problem of getting walled real hard by Mega-Venusaur. Only my grass pokemon can enter safely without risk getting sleep powdered but it can not break through it. Ofc, I can run some something with flying move but sad to say this, out of all my 6 pokemon, the one that really replaceable is MBanette. However, I guess you are right...seeing that I require so much speed investment...I better think of a better way to counter that venusaur ><
Roserade shits all over MVenusaur and sets up spikes or can use sleep powder to punish the switch in, it also makes a wonderful answer to Rotom-W as well and to other fairy types (save Togekiss). I personally use a defensive Rade and even then it still manages to put a dent on MVenus with Sludge bomb, so that a battle of attrition is in your favor. But yeah going back on topic MBanette is not exactly the Pokemon I'd use to deal with MVenus if you are having trouble against such.
Last edited:
Mega Banette has the Prankster ability. Taunt will have +1 priority, and easily outspeed Venusaur.
As for Speed EVs, I'd say you want to run 4 or 8 for Mega Scizor. Mega Banette and Mega Scizor have the same base Speed, so being able to WoW or Destiny Bond before it can Bullet Punch can get you out of some sticky situations.
Sorry if it is not clear but I was talking about prior to mega-evolve.
That remind me, since I am running sucker punch too, may be I need that little bit of speed to outspeed priority move user, like scizor and lucario.
Talonflame has to watch out for Stealth Rock though. After the Brave Bird recoil, it can't switch out without having to get rid of Stealth Rock or use Roost. And my Banette set is mostly to turn a one-sided game back to normal.
Mega bannette isnt used nearly enough. Its the ultimate mulligan Pokemon. You let Mega kenga setup on you? No big deal. Just destiny bond and your problem is solved. Is reunicles destroying your team? Destiny bond can solve that problem too or a shadow claw could show that giant blob of jelly whos boss if it doesn't have trick room up. Got a lot of physical threats on your opponents side of the field and you already lost your only check to them? Wow them all. Basically, bannette fixes mistakes and I personally make a lot of them, so whenever I have a 5poke team that I don't know what to add to, I throw in mbannette (mostly because I don't want to use anything that has any reason to be banned at any point).
I personally run 252hp 252spD on my banette.
Knock Off
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Destiny Bond
I often lead with the thing allowing me to mevo on turn 1 and knock off thua crippling something even if it is faster and taunts. Twave is there because I feel slowing down lukes is more benefical than burning them due to sheer amount of special ones. Taunt and DB are kinda self-explanatory. Investing fully on SpD kinda helps it take anything unboosted special and proceez to twave or db if necessary. Also I have Intimitade WoW/Roar/ESpeed/Morning Sun 100hp/252def Arcanine for physical threats which i can switch on to a lot of things.
Thoughts?
Knock Off
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Destiny Bond
I often lead with the thing allowing me to mevo on turn 1 and knock off thua crippling something even if it is faster and taunts. Twave is there because I feel slowing down lukes is more benefical than burning them due to sheer amount of special ones. Taunt and DB are kinda self-explanatory. Investing fully on SpD kinda helps it take anything unboosted special and proceez to twave or db if necessary. Also I have Intimitade WoW/Roar/ESpeed/Morning Sun 100hp/252def Arcanine for physical threats which i can switch on to a lot of things.
Thoughts?
I'd really like to run Mega Banette, and I believe a stall breaker set is ideal.
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spd
Nature: Careful
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Claw
Works kind of the same as Sableye, hence the EV spread, though it has Destiny Bond to boot, and usable Atk. Might change it if it's typing proves to suit to take more physical hits.
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spd
Nature: Careful
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Claw
Works kind of the same as Sableye, hence the EV spread, though it has Destiny Bond to boot, and usable Atk. Might change it if it's typing proves to suit to take more physical hits.
Ok, so I made a set, that's more attack based than utility. Here's a replay (granted, it is just one replay, and it was lucky) of a battle I had, where my Banette took out 3 of his guys before going down. He took a hydro pump from rotom-w rather well, and pretty much swept half his team. Http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-71402910
This set abuses Babette's monsterous attack stat, as well as priority moves.
Banette@banettite
Ability: frisk (frisk is the only ability it can utilize properly before mega evolving)
Adamant nature
EV's: 252 hp/252 atk/4 sp.def
Destiny bond
Sucker punch
Shadow sneak
Knock off
Frisk works rather well with knock off. This set is best on a stall team where the opponents pokemon are all worn down to about 50%, and you can proceed to priority kill stuff. All you people who are running will-o-wisp are silly, sableye can run a utility set much better than Banette can, so using Banette is a waste of your mega evo. You guys are all putting his fantastic attack stat to waste by using moves that sableye could do infinitely better.
This set abuses Babette's monsterous attack stat, as well as priority moves.
Banette@banettite
Ability: frisk (frisk is the only ability it can utilize properly before mega evolving)
Adamant nature
EV's: 252 hp/252 atk/4 sp.def
Destiny bond
Sucker punch
Shadow sneak
Knock off
Frisk works rather well with knock off. This set is best on a stall team where the opponents pokemon are all worn down to about 50%, and you can proceed to priority kill stuff. All you people who are running will-o-wisp are silly, sableye can run a utility set much better than Banette can, so using Banette is a waste of your mega evo. You guys are all putting his fantastic attack stat to waste by using moves that sableye could do infinitely better.
You use Bannette for the priority destiny bond and slow shadow claw/knock off. You add will-o-wisp if you aren't using anything like sableye. You throw in protect to make sure it's useful. You don't need Will-wisp, but it does help make bannette more useful than a suicide revenge killer. If you throw in Shadow Sneak over will-o-wisp, you can get some free kills, but you definitely don't need Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak since ghost and dark cover mostly the same types and shadow sneak being superior on bannette due to people's tendency to try to toxic stall bannette to avoid losing a pokemon to it.
Actually, you're wrong about not needing sucker punch. It's important because it offers a stronger attack. (40+STAB versus 80) sure, people will try to toxic stall Banette, however, if you predict well, you can kill that toxic stall. Also, a pokemon with heal bell and wish is a nice partner with this Banette.
My point is that it doesnt help you in any way. The few pokemon that it actually takes out would generally switch out on a bannette anyway. If you really, really want to run sucker punch, dont run shadow sneak. There are so many better ways to utilize mbannette than double priority. If you want to go offensive and you have cleric support, you could look into sub or an actualy powerful attack. My recommendation would be to run shadow claw instead of shadow sneak since you want to run sucker punch for some reason.
You are clearly missing the point. In that battle, where I faced off against starmie, shadow sneak would not have killed it, and I would've died to the surf or whatever. It sounds bad when you look at it, but take it for a test run and you'll see that it's more efficient than you'd think. Also, when people switch out vs Banette, it's easy to predict that, and you can go for the knock off. This set requires a lot of prediction skill, so if you aren't good at that, don't use the set, but in almost every battle I've had, mega Banette has proven useful in some way.
Of course it has some use, but my point is that it is terribly unreliable for the very minor upgrade in power. I've used sucker punch plenty of times. It works, but you definitely don't need it and shadow sneak. You also, won't predict right every time. What if that starmie was bulky and decided to recover? Would you have gotten that right? You can use one and sucker punch is viable, but it isnt the best bannette can do. Especially due to bannettes reputation for priority destiny bond.
Last edited:
It's somewhat like aegislash. It requires a lot of prediction, and if you do it wrong, aegis is dead. If you do it right, aegis destroys a few pokemon. You gotta know when to switch out, when to attack, etc. Play poorly and you'll find yourself with a dead Banette, play well and you end up with 2-3 dead pokemon. It's because of Babette's reputation of priority destiny bond that allows this set to be useful, because they expect that, and attempt to toxic stall, or set up. You can take off their life orb or leftovers when they set up or toxic stall, making them a lot less useful. Then you switch in to the appropriate pokemon, or proceed to finish off that pokemon, depending on how much damage you did.
- Status