talked to phil about wanted to nominate sleep moves he said i should make a pr topic on it Sleep has always been extremely good, but the most recent mechanic changes push it from good to broken. With the sleep timer resetting every time you switch out, a mon that was put to sleep is often effectively fainted for the entirety of the battle. There is no more using smart play to tick turns off your timer, if you're asleep, you're fucked. Pokemon using sleep moves often get the pseudo-kill by putting something to sleep and then are able to do what they would do normally, making pokemon like Darkrai and Breloom seem much better than they actually are. So, I think we should consider and talk about it and not leave it completely out of the discussion because of how major it would be to take something out of the game that has been there since gen 1. The new mechanics have really just screwed it up to an insane degree. You can almost equate them to ohko moves with much higher accuracy that can only be blocked by switching in a mon with status, which is usually unreliable at best (especially against darkrai and breloom). I'm not sure where the discussion lies here, but since I was asked to post this if I really want a ban on sleep moves considered I'll try to have something productive actually come in. Like um...should we consider banning moves if they are broken (outside of our evasion/ohko bans which are mostly rooted in luck i guess, but i still think it's equivalently the same thing)?