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bards and seahorses

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Thursday, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Thursday

    Thursday

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    93
    hi, i'm thursday
    this is a team i made
    it's not particularly good nor do i play it that well but i've had a lot of fun with it in recent weeks. i never hit a decent rank with this team partially out of laziness but partially out of my ineptitude and a whole host of bad luck thrust upon me. that being said, this is probably my favorite team from the b2w2 era and i'd like to improve it in the hopes that maybe i could do better with it than i am now.

    i know i'm weak to a myriad of threats so if someone could help me mitigate these weaknesses, that would be great
    also, i don't know if these descriptions are too short. i haven't made one of these in so long!

    anyways:


    [​IMG]
    Tornadus (Tornadus-T) (M) @ Damp Rock
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - U-turn
    - Rain Dance

    i rarely ever lead with this guy but this is where my team begins. tornadus-t is probably my favorite member of this team primarily because he’s so fast and so useful! :toast: anyways, i generally play rather recklessly with this guy if kingdra’s not going to do anything: he’s very good for a fast but weak u-turn, and i love spamming hurricanes which do a lot even though they aren’t boosted by choice specs. my plan with this team is really simple: since my opponent usually doesn’t think twice about sacrificing their weather inducer, i usually focus on eliminating it then bringing in tornadus-t to rain dance, at which point kingdra can usually finish off my opponent. i’m genuinely surprised when my opponent doesn’t expect me to do this, since imo torn-t and kingdra would only portend some sort of rain team.

    the moveset is really self-explanatory. hurricane is flying stab which is too good to pass up, focus blast hits steels and tyranitar (mostly tyranitar), and u-turn is to scout and help me build up hazard damage. rain dance is the crux of this set: tornadus-t works very well in conjunction with kingdra in helping me eliminate most of my opponent’s team simply because it’s my weather inducer. but, in addition to being a weather inducer, i think it’s important to remember how hard tornadus-t hits, even though its attacks aren’t boosted by life orb or choice specs. with hazards up (which i can usually manage to do fairly easily), tornadus is my secondary cleaner. that being said, there have been situations in which my cloudbutt hasn’t been able to set up rain quickly enough, and i’ve been considering using torno-i to remedy that. thoughts?

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Taunt
    - U-turn

    generic gliscor yeah!!!! Anyways, Gliscor is the mon that I use to set up rocks and he’s very good at it. If my opponent has a Tyranitar, Gliscor is my lead ~70% of the time because Tyranitar is really just a free ticket to set up my first layer of hazards. I don’t really know what to say about Gliscor, other than the fact that he’s a “glue” of sorts – that is to say that he patches up what would otherwise be huge weaknesses from physical threats such as Terrakion. Although it seems strange, I really like the combination of Taunt / U-Turn on Gliscor, as it fits my team well; Taunt prevents Ferrothorn and Skarmory from setting up hazards (with three choiced mons, I do a lot of switching), while U-turn helps me build up more damage and maintain momentum. I will not deny that I don’t play this team very well, and I guess that’s part of why I’m not doing as well as I possibly could with it. There are rare occasions in which I wish that I had a different move in place of one of the other moves (meaning: not Earthquake), and I kind of wish that I had a better way to deal with Dragonite, so recently, I’ve been contemplating putting Ice Fang over U-turn. Although that’s far from the best way to deal with Dragonite, I think it would be a step in the right direction.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Dragon Pulse

    Putting a Heatran on a Rain(ish) team might seem kind of counterproductive, but I think it’s important to realize that with Tornadus-T using Rain Dance, rain will only be up for eight turns – I think it’s important to be able to adapt to situations well in case your game plan goes down the shitter. That being said, Heatran’s the other part of my ‘glue’ which in this scenario deals with Sun teams adequately - between Tran and Latias, I’m usually more than capable of holding my own against the throes that mons such as Venusaur and Volcarona sometimes cause. Heatran with a scarf is my revenge killer and does its job well. I can usually dispatch CB Dragonite with this guy.

    He’s also my emergency button for Lucario (lol) and he really stomps on a lot more things than you’d expect with his lovely STAB Fire Blast. He covers most things that would otherwise trouble me with Earth Power, and Dragon Pulse hits Latios rather hard, who’s otherwise a veritable scourge to this team. HP [Grass] is admittedly just slapped on there for the odd Gastrodon in the event that I need to kill it so that I can keep spamming Hydro Pump on Kingdra.

    Well, optimistically, this guy works. In reality, I admittedly have some apprehensions about Heatran. I formerly had SD Rock Gem Terrakion in this slot which provided significantly more firepower, but now I find that I have more cushioning against random Dragon mons. Heatran’s just my Dragon move sponge, and I’ve been considering replacing him with either Starmie (which could also Rain Dance) or a spinblocker of some sort, specifically Gengar or Jellicent. If anyone has thoughts on this, I’d love to hear them.

    edit: oh wow i forgot to mention the most general reason that I put Heatran here: it's a generic Genesect switchin.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick
    - Psyshock

    this guy is a piece of shit

    no, i’m just kidding, latias covers rain pretty well. specs latias is a little dumb, but i’d suggest using it before bashing it: trick is really fun to use (to be honest, that’s the only reason why i use this set: i’m also kind of afraid of reuniclus). using latios might be the better option, but latias has more natural bulk and to be honest that’s what i was looking for when i made the team. this fucking planebird thing covers random fighting mons that are slower than it and punches holes into things that might otherwise be annoying for some mons on my team to pick apart.

    if i see a ferrothorn on the opponent’s team or if they’re running a stall team, i trick as soon as possible. i usually catch the chansey/blissey/ferrothorn off guard, which is really nice! :toast: after that i don’t have much of a gameplan though so i’m usually disconsolate about that. also, i’ve noticed that 0/4/0 investment is hardly sufficient to tank anything so i’ve been strongly considering using a bulkier spread, sacrificing some firepower for more longevity. also hp fire is dumb so i think i’m going to go for surf because it helps with heatran though i have very few issues with tran to be honest. either that or dragon pulse.

    latias is cool.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 SDef / 44 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Taunt
    - Roost

    sdef skram!!!!! i adore this thing like i never have any other pokemon. never have i come across a mon who can lay spikes as easily as this one. you may notice something strange: i don’t have any attacking moves. this isn’t new by any means, and sometimes when i’m fighting the odd espeon or xatu i end up feeling angry with myself. however, taunt is the crux of this set: i can only imagine the looks on my opponent’s face when i click taunt to stop his skarm or whatever from setting up hazards. other than that, i think it’s really self-evident what skarm is supposed to do: lay down spikes, occasionally shut down my opponent when he’s reliant on non-damaging moves, and heal himself so he can do it as often as necessary.

    what makes me really like this set is the heavy sdef investment. with it, my giant tin can bird can pretty comfortably sponge attacks from the lati twins and sometimes people run hydreigon under rain and he takes that a lot better than you’d expect. i’m always afraid of genesect (fuk gene), but skarm is kind of good at taking hits from him considering that he laughs at u-turn and shrugs off ice beams. i’m always cautious around gene though because i really don’t like eating fts which do enough that i can't come in again!

    just a note: i run far more speed than necessary, but i’ve always liked a little speed on skarmory so i can have the faster whirlwind. 44 speed is excessive, but i’m paranoid about really fast jellicent for some asinine reason. i don’t really need to invest it in anything else, but i’ve contemplated dropping it down to ~16 spd / rest in def. it doesn’t matter all that much, i don’t find. i’d really like to squeeze in an attack, but i find that all of my moves are pretty crucial to skarm’s success! what woe i suffer.

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    the big bang, the pootie tang. i’ve never used kingdra successfully prior to creating this team. something needs to be said for the sheer amount of teams that i’ve ravaged with this guy. specs hydro pump in the rain shaves a good chunk off of everything not named chansey, really; ferrothorn doesn’t have reliable recovery and sometimes with hazards i can hit it, then hit it again and watch it die. with sr, rain, and even one layer of spikes up, the number of things that can withstand kingdra’s assault is extremely small, and kingdra easily outpaces everything under the sun (well, rain) so there’s nothing to really worry about aside from stuff like tentacruel and gastrodon which latias can usually eat up sufficiently anyways.

    i’ve seldom had to send kingdra in early, and if i do, it’s always because i see a quick opportunity to kill something which i’ll take even if it’s outside of rain – 316 special attack is very close to latias’, meaning that i have little trouble dispatching an errant mon with a dragon pulse or something. it’s worth noting that 85-95% of the time i’m clicking hydro pump on kingdra endgame and that everything else borders on filler except maybe dragon pulse lol

    hp [fire] is stupid, so i’m contemplating replacing it for surf or signal beam. celebi takes a massive amount from pumps though so signal beam is probably unnecessary. surf? surf.

    this team was built around this guy, and if it came down to it i’d say it’s the kingpin, but when building around kingdra, i hardly wanted it to be my only win condition. i’d say that all of the other members of my team either contribute to the end goal [most often kingdra’s sweep] or are capable of executing a pseudo-sweep on their own. that being said, i generally don’t win when kingdra dies early game. it’s definitely the most salient threat on this team with rain support (and if my opponent carries rain, that’s serendipitous – it makes my life far easier!), and without it my morale kind of drops. that being said, between the other five members of the team, i can occasionally eke out a victory.

    thank you for reading. i sincerely hope you enjoyed.
  2. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    Lol your descriptions are fine, although I see you edited, so idk if you lengthened them. Anyway, 3 choice users is kinda bad, as it forces you to predict more. I suggest this Latias set:

    Latias@Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 192 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    Keeps up offensive pressure, while also being able to heal itself. Hope I helped.
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee I devote this Custom Title to Dice, my Supreme Overlord
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,572
    Hi

    This is quite an interesting team however I feel like it could be improved. Kingdra seems to be your main sweeper. While Choice Specs Kingdra is a pretty strong set (it's actually my favourite Kingdra to use and I use it a lot), it's not very well suited as a late game sweeper. You should perhaps try out a different set. The Life Orb version with Rain Dance is much more suited to sweep the opponent late game than your current set. Offensive teams are litteraly destroyed by its Speed and coverage, and Kingdra is quite bulky with very few exploitable weaknesses making it a tough foe to take down. It also won't be locked into one move like the Choice Specs version, since being locked into Hydro Pump really sucks when you could just take down the enemy Dragon type that tanks your Water STAB, as Rain won't last forever. Tornadus-T might be reliable at setting up Rain Dance but, Kingdra can also do it itself pretty well as it doesn't need a lot of moves to have good coverage, and having two Rain Dancers might really help your team being less predictable (i.e. having to go to Tornadus-T every time you want Rain).

    Try out Superpower on Tornadus-T instead of Focus Blast, with a Naive nature. The main reason for this is that, some Tyranitar will be able to survive Focus Blast (the Specially Defensive version) or Focus Blast will just miss, leading you to getting Stone Edged to death. Superpower is a clean OHKO on most Tyranitar except really weird physically defensive versions or Chople Berry versions, but that's kinda rare. Tyranitar will switch into Tornadus-T often when it sees it use Rain Dance so taking it down will be very important in order to win the weather war. Tyranitar will be the most common weather inducer that you want to take down anyway, and one of the few things you really need your Fighting coverage for, the other being Heatran who takes a load from Superpower anyway.

    I get that Taunt Skarmory is great, but honestly I don't think that you need it on your team since you have Gliscor. Gliscor is already pretty good at stopping most Spikers/SRers for setting up their hazards anyway, especially Skarmory. Brave Bird is really a great move for Skarm as dealing with Breloom is incredible, along with being able to nail Flying weak Pokemon on the switch. You might want to use a different spread on Gliscor with that moveset though. Try using 216 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature, as it allows you to outspeed Deoxys-D, one of the most common offensive leads, and you will still be able to Taunt pretty much anything that sets up on you anyway. It also stops the very random Jolly Ice Punch Lucario, which is fine I guess.

    So yeah, nice team, here's the set you should use:
    different Kingdra set! (open)

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Swift Swim
    Modest
    EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
    ~Hydro Pump
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Draco Meteor
    ~Rain Dance


    Good luck!
  4. Thursday

    Thursday

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    93
    Thanks for the rates. I've tried out ~10 matches with LO Kingdra, but I'm not feeling it right now; I don't really like the recoil (though I'm being a dumbass and using Kingdra way too early) the ability to Rain Dance with Kingdra has come in handy several times. I'll keep trying it and see how it works. The Gliscor spread is really nice and I like outspeeding Deo-D. I'll update with changes soon. Thank you again for the thorough rates!

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