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Baton Pass discussion thread.

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Black Leather Jacket, Dec 23, 2005.

  1. Black Leather Jacket

    Black Leather Jacket

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    Many people feel full BP teams are just as bad as using double team or 1hko moves because they are usually very annoying to beat, Usually these same people say BP teams take no skill to use. If you can beat a Weezing,whirlwind skarm,Tyranitar with a BP team then I think it takes alot of skill to do that.

    Pros:
    #1:If used correctly you can defeat many different teams, even ubers in some cases pretty fast.

    #2:Most people don't prepare their teams to face a BP team so that gives you better chances of winning

    #3:My favorite thing about BP teams is that they let you escape from standard battling for a while.

    Cons:
    #1:Critical hits while not hiding behind your substitute will mess you up bad.

    #2:Unlike most standard battles, If one pokemon falls your whole team will probably lose unless you want to try and stall like a (BAN ME PLEASE) with the rest of your bpers.

    #3:Very popular counters [Weezing/Skarmory/CB leads]

    Threats to most bp teams.

    Most BP teams will lead with Ninjask and many teams you will face lead with powerful CBers like Salamence or even worse Tauros. These are a threat because who are you are passing speed to will most likely get hit very hard, I usually pass to Vaporeon and even after one acid armor it is almost dead from the Tauros abuse. I sometimes use Scizor to take Meteor Mashes and normal type hits while using Iron Defense.

    Skarmory....Skarmory.....Skarmory. Now if our steel friend has roar this is no problem but many carry whirlwind which is a big problem because Mr.Mime can't block whirlwind. Even worse is a Skarmory used with a CBHeracross [Skarm used these two together and I couldn't do anything]. There are ways out of this, Use ingrain on Smeargle so you can't get blown out. Also you can use roar on Vaporeon so you can blow him out before he does it you, Taunt/Mean look Umbreon is a great way to fix this nasty problem but when I tried this against Skarms team with Heracross it didn't work to well. That's why I added HP flying to my Ninjask, Sometimes Hera might feel extra brave so he won't switch out.

    Haze Weezing. This guy isn't as popular as he used to be but he is still around and very annoying, But not as bad as whirlwind Skarm in most cases.
    Trickbanding him may not be the brightest idea because if he uses sludge bomb and you don't have Scizor he could do pretty nice damage to anyone else on your team, Even worse if he poisons them. Fixing this problem isn't too hard because the nice thing about haze is even though your stats are gone you still have a sub up. On my current team I have Celebi so I pass to him when Weezing comes out so that scares him off, If he does stay he will obviously die to Psychic. After Weezing switches I switch right to Smeargle,
    Hopefully a sub will be up. In most cases my first move will be Block [does the same thing as mean look but block is cooler] If Weezing comes back it is now trapped, Then I put him to sleep, Pass to Celebi and kill him. If I trap someone else I simply put him to sleep, Ingrain if needed then pass to someone else to set up.

    Tyranitar....Well Sandstorm. Sandstorm kills your leftovers and that can be very dangerous for a bp team especially if your team isn't carrying a wish Umbreon. Also, The BOAH version of Tyranitar is very annoying to deal with because most special uppers will be psychic types and Crunch will deal nasty damage if you don't have 3-4 calm minds. Boosting your defense with Vap will be a problem because of T-bolt. The best way out of this is to trickband him and go to Umbreon and trap what ever comes out next, Sadly I don't have Umbreon on my current team.

    Status moves and leech seed. Even though all my pokemon have substitute status moves [mostly t-wave and sleep moves] can mess up a whole team.
    I don't think any baton pass teams have a healer so once you get paralyzed you are stuck with it.

    Trick/Encore/Psych Up [CRADILY]/Snatch. Ingrain can also cause you to lose in some cases because if you have no speed and lets say to pass off to Umbreon, Alakzam can come in and either trick you or even worse encore your mostly likely non attacking move, Calm mind up and destroy you team. It has happened to me a few times and its very nasty. I put roar on my Vaporeon and this is always a part of every baton pass team I make because I can get rid of anything that wants to up their stats with my [another bp team] Psych up Cradily is a very rare threat to bp teams because he can get all your calm minds and try to outstall/run you out of PP if you are using a special attacking target. Snatch can also be pretty annoying so be careful when you use spore with Smeargle, Also be on watch for Magic coat Grumpigs when using Smeargle.

    Perish song could be a problem if you don't have Mr.Mime.

    If anyone else has anything they would like to add to this section please do.

    Well I'm pretty tired so I will add more to this later. Thank you and goodbye for now!
  2. Atlas

    Atlas I'm the Mary!
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    Octillery is the sex with some speed passed.
  3. BB64

    BB64

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    If you're using Ingrain, Perish Song Gengar or Celebi can bite you in the ass.

    Granted, they aren't used much, but they're still counters.
  4. Black Leather Jacket

    Black Leather Jacket

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    Black Leather Jacket's Uhhhh Jolteon used Baton pass!
    Black sent out Mr.Mime, Mr.Mime's Soundproof blocks Perish song!
    Gengar's Perish count went down to 3!
  5. chaos

    chaos
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    CB Heracross using Focus Punch will own a BP team everytime, unfortunately. Make sure to have an attacking move on Ninjask. Until Zapdos gets Baton Pass, you better watch out for Gyarados too.
  6. Warthog

    Warthog
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    Taunt/WW Skarm was the way I beat these teams, others was on pure prediction. Like when I was in a PR tourney and I was facing Crolum. He had a standard BP team and I was getting screwed. He sent in his Ninjask while I switched in my Venusaur. Repeative HP Fires broke the Sub so he switched in his Metagross thinking Id do HP Fire again. He was wrong and he ate a Sleep Powder. That shows how much of a pain in the ass these teams are to play against.

    DD Gyarados and Mence can take on these teams with some ease, not really much with Mence though. Vaporeon is a whore.
  7. Roy

    Roy sux
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    to every saying that their ww skarm is a complete counter to a bp team, that is totally wrong.

    you are forgetting you can use magneton as your receiver and own skarm before it ever becomes a threat
  8. Black Leather Jacket

    Black Leather Jacket

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    This is mostly about full baton passing teams....I use Jolteon as my main target because it can baton pass out if needed. Like I said before I have hp flying on Ninjask for Heracross, Sure encore Alakzam is annoying but Flying over hp bug because Heracross is used much more anyway.

    This is my current bp team, I think it's the best one I thought of so far but I will probably think of something better one day.

    Ninjask
    Adamant
    protect
    sub
    bp
    HP Flying

    Yes, He passes speed. Protect for an extra boost if Suicune comes out roar and I'm not using swords dance anyway.

    Mr.Mime
    Careful
    trick
    calm mind
    sub
    bp

    Trick is a very cool move in most cases, He blocks roar so if the opponent doesn't have whirlwind it's pretty easy to win. Only bad thing is I can't calm mind if I don't use trick 1st [cb pokemon switch ins are annoying]

    Vaporeon
    Bold, Max hp enough speed to beat Gengar but I might raise the speed to beat Sceptile after two boosts, Rest in defense.

    sub
    acid armor
    bp
    roar

    I always have this same Vap on my bp teams because he is so helpful, Takes all physical hits pretty well, Makes huge subs, and can mess up other bp teams with roar. Also, Water absorb is cool especially after tricking someone who uses surf.

    Smeargle
    timid max speed/hp
    spore
    bp
    block
    ingrain

    The only poke on this team without substitute because the other moves are too useful to give up, Like I mentioned before about trapping Weezing or any other pokemon, It's very helpful. Smeargle is sometimes the backbone of this team.

    Celebi
    calm alot of sp def eps,Max hp, some speed and def.
    calm mind
    psychic
    sub
    bp

    Very cool part of the team, Much more durable then Mr.Mime, Makes nice 101 hp subs and can be a semi-target if needed.
    I added extra sp def because Vap will boost Celebi's already huge defense.

    The main target. Jolteon
    Timid, max speed/sp attack
    t-bolt
    hp dark....will explain
    sub
    bp

    Very cool volt absorber and has great speed and special attack, Lets say Ninjask dies early somehow, Jolt has enough speed to win without a boost in most cases. BP is to pop in to kill something and pop out to boost up if I need to. Now I bet you are all wondering why I use HP dark. Well it is pretty embarassing to get your team crippled by a Shedinja, Even though Jask has hp flying I can't take the chance because he is too fragile. HP dark still does well most of the time.

    The only this thing team lacks is wish support from Umbreon, What do you all think of the team?
  9. Vulcan Fury

    Vulcan Fury
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    What I usually do with a standard BP team is take a risk and Baton Pass the first turn, if I get lucky and they send in Skarm I can send in Vappy/Smeargle/my receiver to scare it off, however if I predict wrong that bites me in the ass especially if their lead is a strong cber or even worse that Zapdos :(

    That being said, I do believe that a Baton Passing chain in good hands is a tough thing to beat. However from what I gather the purpose of this thread is to discuss Baton Passing strategies, so I'm going to post the slightly different things that I've seen in Baton Passing chains, not all of which I have used.

    Jolteon @ Leftovers
    -Roar
    -Agility
    -Substitute
    -Baton Pass

    From what I gather Ninjask leads gather Skarmory or Suicune or some (p)hazer so this is a good alternative lead. Most Skarm/Cune won't switch in of fear of being Bolted. Roar is the real catcher here, it's awesome mid-game, if you are having trouble with that Calm Minder, having problems with that Curser or DDEr, simply setup a Sub, begin Acid Armoring/CMing and half-way through pass to this thing, they'll break the Sub and you can get rid of them, hopefully when Skarm and friends find out you'll already have Ingrain up.

    I saw The Over Used using this first.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    -Calm Mind
    -Psychic
    -Recover
    -Baton Pass

    Substitute can go there somewhere, makes a good replacement for Mr. Mime, though losing Soundproof sucks you have more of a defense against Calm Minders.

    Sadly there aren't many alternatives to a Baton Passing chain, I've seen some Roar Vaporeon and such here and there but besides that Jolteon nothing much.

    For a recipient I am going to use Zapdos for sure, either passing Agility or as the recipient, it will stop Gyarados dead in it's tracks and can Baton Pass out if needed.

    Right now Lapras is a great recipient for Baton Passing chains. It doesn't need Swords Dance to help it sweep, and blocks all CH's out with Battle Armor or Shell Armor or whatever (I don't want to start a water absorb is better debate) Substitute/Toxic/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt is what I have been using on my latest BP team and it has worked fine.

    Uh yeah not much else I can say, I might post my BP team later.
  10. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    I have tried out some team with Eeveelution passing today (left out Flareon because it sucks) and I discovered a few things.
    - Mawile is your friend for Normal resistance. It can pass Swords Dances (I had Jolteon as a Speed passer, so no Ninjask), it can take the Iron Defense job as well if you don't want it on Vaporeon, and for kicks I put Mud-Slap on it. Mud-Slap really helps out your subs, lol.
    - Charm, available to any Eeveelution, is a GREAT help sometimes if they don't have a Substitute up. You can own Curselax and Dragon Dancers more efficiently, it might be hard to beat them with Acid Armor Vaporeon, especially since usually your standard BPing Vaporeon doesn't do anything to Salamence/Gyarados/Snorlax. It helps a lot against Rhydon too (if using Charm Umbreon), if it has Swords Dance you can at least stall it, and if it doesn't bad luck. Anyone who has tried standard BP teams know that these heavy hitters can be a pain if they get in before your Acid Armors are there. Tauros and Dodrio, and other CBers, are a huge bite in the ass as well.
    - Paralysis on your opponent makes it impossible to sleep something, however with paralysis you KNOW that it will stay there. With a paralyzed, trapped opponent, you can leave the speed boosting for later. And the occasional FPs help your Substitutes and whatnot.
  11. Black Leather Jacket

    Black Leather Jacket

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    I thought of Mawile but wouldn't Scizor do the job better?

    Lets discuss the new XD Baton passers.

    Zapdos/Xatu/Lunatone/Solrock/Rapidash there may be more but I can't think of any now. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Ok Zapdos sticks out in this group, He is one of the best/overused pokemon in the game and baton pass will make him more annoying to beat.Most people are very excited about Zapdos learning metal sound but this will put an instant spike in the use of Regice, But Zap is so cool he can still cause a ton of trouble. Just sub while Regice switches in and pass to someone like Metagross/Tyranitar, If you thought Jolteon was annoying wait till' you see this guy in action..

    Now for full bp teams this Zapdos might be the best target in the game but I'm still not sure if I will get rid of Jolteon for Zap. Each have slight advantages over the other, Jolteon gets Volt Absorb but on my current team I have Celebi so Volt absorb isn't as useful.Jolt has huge speed so if Ninjask dies you can still have a nice shot at winning. Zapdos might be better because he has alot more HP and Sp attack but that loss of speed worries me
    also ice beam being super effective is another problem.

    Rapidash can also be used mostly because he looks so cool and can take fire hits because they are a slight problem for my BP team but other then that he is total garbage and should never be used.
  12. Roy

    Roy sux
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    why isn't EVERYONE using maggy as their receiver?
  13. freaktron

    freaktron

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    Well whaddya know, a few days ago I tried an eeveelution team as well and used Flareon, but it sucked indeed :x
  14. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Because Taunt Umbreon, Ingrain Smeargle and Mr. Mime to an extent usually take care of Skarmory, and Zapdos is so much sexier, being able to OHKO everything in the game with Drill Peck, HP Grass and Thunderbolt and whatnot. :)
  15. ABC-Trainer

    ABC-Trainer

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    Ninjask/Mr. Mime/Vaporeon/Umbreon/Smeargle/Zapdos is the standard =/
  16. Explodus

    Explodus

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    lmao i tried to use a BP tea after reading this and failed so miserably. I still prefer regular teams. I just dont like the idea of pretty much totally losing if one poke dies.
  17. Loki

    Loki like seashells
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    I wouldn't say that is the "standard". The core of most bp teams is smeargle/vap/mime/ninjask but the other two slots can differ. Celebi is arguably more popular than umbreon as a bper. Marowak, medicham and magneton are pretty popular recievers too.
  18. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    Fixed.

    These teams are like clockwork. Don't tell me about these being hard to use because they're not. They are designed to guarantee a win and a guaranteed win is not hard. Once Ingrain is down Roar and Whirlwind do shit and something trivial like Haze Weezing is easy to get around. The only real way these teams lose consistantly is through criticals which nobody can do anything about. There are a few pokemon as mentioned already that can work against these teams (Gyarados, CB Heracross) but even then all you have to do is beat one pokemon and it's game over. All teams will have their weaknesses but these types have very small ones compared to regular teams. The only reason I'm posting is because you make it seem like this is a lot harder than it really is so don't make it out like I'm attacking this analysis or anything; it's indepth and covers everything.

    Here's the old thread in case anyone is interested.

    http://www.smogon.com/community/showthread.php?t=1359
  19. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    The standard BP team (no Jolteon/Celebi) gets really crippled by Electrics sometimes. Mr. Mime without Leftovers is very hard to switch in, and even with Lefties he has VERY low HP. Umbreon can come in but not hurt much...Vaporeon, Ninjask and Smeargle of course cannot do dick squat against them.

    Today I beat a BP chain (one using Scizor though) with my Celebi and Jolteon. He didn't have a trapper, but even if he did I could just Baton Pass Subs and Calm Minds between the two. Jolteon with a Sub and two Calm Minds easily beat his recipient Jynx, who had +6 Def and +2 Speed. It's very hard for a BP chain to get around other BPers, too.
  20. Black Leather Jacket

    Black Leather Jacket

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    Very true but having Celebi on my team rapes those electrics good but Houndoom can be a bit annoying without Umbreon.
  21. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    I can't see Houndoom being a very big threat with Vaporeon, unless it gets too much SpDef drops. Last time I checked Pursuit doesn't go before Baton Pass...though I remember times it did. I'm unsure anymore if it does or doesn't, but if Pursuit beats Baton Pass Mr. Mime and Celebi are fucked.
  22. ABC-Trainer

    ABC-Trainer

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    I don't see how Celebi would be more popular than a mean looker seeing as Mime passes Cms and Ninjask passes Sds. Also, the recipient always varies, I was being a bit naive there.
  23. AJC

    AJC

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    failure too mentioned the suction cups pokemon cradily and octy consitering that both can get at least 198 speed so after a agi pass or 2 speed boost passes will outspeed 130s hurts this review
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    It just works as a regular attack, the one with the higher Speed would BP/Pursuit first. In this case Pursuit's damage won't double so it doesn't hurt to go second anyways.

    Also posting to say that BP Teams are a pain in the ass =0
  25. Vulcan Fury

    Vulcan Fury
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    Ingrain solves that problem.

    I've tried an Eevee BP Team, it was fun at the most, I used Flareon/Jolteon as my recipient xd.

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