Thanks again everyone! I actually managed to keep the post under 4,000,000 words this time, so I won't bother with hide tags: @conduit, NPbi is totally a beast set but for this team nastypassbi definitely fits better, i really appreciate the longevity provided by recover and the defensive EVs and its ability to set up NPs on so much. Starmie would defintely be nice here (I've tried it > thundy in the past) but I've found that aggressive playing early-game and liberal use of terra's taunt usually limit the amount of hazards that go up enough (and having 3 SR resists is super cool actually). Thanks for the comment! @hayden I've tested these two sets a lot and I have to say I really am preferring the original LO agility set--CTC's EV spread is nice for the added survivability, but I jsut find the immediate power LO too nice to pass up given that quite often thundy just needs to attack attack attack right off the bat. And yep, like conduit said, agility is soften really useful for that reason. @shurtugal--oh thats funny, great midns think alike what can i say? I love the bone-crushing power of modest too much on specstoed to go for timid, and I already have what is close to the best adamant loom-counter in existence in celebi. And yep, I'm using CTC's thundy spread fsure, with a slight adjustment for LO > lefties. And yes, I could not agree more--that is the whole fun of the team :D @GOthee--thanks, it's really fun to use! As before, I really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions guys, the team has never felt more consistent to me!