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Data Battle Mechanics Research

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    Note: this thread will be moved to the new Uncharted Territory forum when it eventually appears.

    With our only info on X and Y coming from a select few individuals, we're still mostly in the dark on 6th generation battle mechanics. To help speed along research, we're preparing a list of things that should be tested when the games do come out.
    This list is mostly speculative, mostly consisting of possible nerfs, glitch fixes, or other changes made to accommodate new mechanics.

    We are now accepting suggestions for the list from the public.

    Rules of the thread

    1. Discussion is limited to suggestions for the list, or new information revealed on battle mechanics. Limit discussion to battle mechanics only. That means:

    • Do NOT discuss competitive implications for the new changes.
    • Do NOT discuss the new training methods. That will be handled in a separate thread.
    • Do NOT discuss type changes to existing Pokémon. That is already handled in another thread.
    2. Avoid vague questions like "does X still work the same?" or "How does new move Y work?" We need a specific idea to test.

    Other guidelines will probably be added at the discretion of the moderators soon enough.

    Possible Mechanics Changes, due to nerfs\fixes
    Abilities
    • Sheer Force: does it no longer negate Life Orb recoil\Eject Button activation\etc?
    • Cursed Body: changed to affect only contact moves?
    • Quick Guard: does it still not block moves given priority by Prankster?
    • Analytic: Does it still boost damage against a target switching in?
    • Auto-weather abilities: Does the weather counter reset to 5-8 if the Pokémon is switched in while the appropriate weather (rain for Drizzle, etc.) is already in effect?

    Moves
    • Mean Look\Baton Pass: Does Baton Pass pass on the trapping effect once again, or does the effect still wear off?
    • Sky Drop\Gravity glitch: fixed?
    • Rumor: Play Nice ignores Protect.
    Items
    • Now that the damage of partial trapping moves is increased to 1/8th total HP per turn, how has that damage with Binding Band changed?
    Other Mechanics
    • ?

    New Mechanics
    Mega-Evolution
    • It's known that Mega-Evolution occurs before any moves, but what is not clear is if it occurs before or after switching is handled.
    Moves
    • Dual type moves
      • Known info: if a Pokémon is weak to one type but resistant to the other, it takes 1x damage.
      • Known info: if a Pokémon is immune to one of the listed types, it is immune to the move entirely.
      • Are they 4x effective if both target's types are weak to the move's types? (Sources providing the leak say no.)
      • Flying Press mentions the Flying-type in the move description, but lists Fighting-type on the status screen. If a Flying- but not Fighting-type uses it, does it still get STAB?
      • What type-boosting items work for dual-type moves? The type listed on the screen, and\or the one in the move description?
      • How does Conversion2 interact with them? Does it use the main type listed on the move info page, or both types?
    • Dual type moves: What happens if the target is immune to one of the types, either through type immunity or ability immunity, but not the other? Does it take damage, or does the ability activate?
    • Freeze Dry: is it still super-effective against Water-types whose other type also resists Ice? Is it blocked by Water Absorb\Storm Drain?
    • Topsy-Turvy: is it affected by Clear Body?
    • Parting Shot: does it still work against Magic Bounce?
    Abilities
    • Parental Bond: if Kangaskhan uses Helping Hand twice because of Parental Bond, is the boost increased?

    Items

    • Weakness Policy: is it used up when the Pokémon is hit by a super-effective move, or does the item remain?

    Other Mechanics
    • Electric immunity to paralysis: when an Electric-type with Volt Absorb\Lightningrod gets hit by Thunder Wave, which takes precedence? If paralysis immunity takes precedence, then the the healing\Sp. Attk boost will not occur.
    • Honedge line and Magnet Pull: are they still affected despite the Ghost immunity to trapping abilities?
    • Pokémon-Amie: does it have any effect on link battles?

    Known info
    Mega-Evolution
    • Mega-Evolution items cannot be removed from their holder during battle. (Pan)
    • Abilities such as Intimidate and Drought activate if the Pokémon gains them through Mega-Evolution.
    • Mega-Evolution can only occur for a trainer once per battle. Even if their Mega-Evolved Pokémon is knocked out, they cannot Mega-Evolve a second. (Pan)
    • Magic Room does NOT block Mega-Evolution. (Level 51)
    • Turn order is set before Mega-Evolution occurs. If a Pokémon's speed changes due to Mega-Evolution, it will still not affect turn order that turn. (Katakiri)
    • Transform\Imposter can turn the user into a Mega-Evolved Pokémon. It does not need the appropriate item to maintain the forme. (Raseri, Plus)
    Moves
    • Hidden Power is now at a set 60 power, with likely a new type-determination formula. (Source)
    • Water Sport and Mud Sport no longer fade if the user switches out, but fade after 5 turns like Safeguard (extra)
    • Trick-or-Treat adds the Ghost-type to a target, even if it already has two types (giving it a third type). (Stess)
    • Spiky Shield's success rate goes down to one-third if used two turns in a row. (ΩDonut)
    • Grassy Terrain raises the damage output of Grass moves by 50% when used by any Pokémon that is touching the ground. (Ves)
    • Focus Energy now increases the base critical-hit ratio to 50%, causing high-crit moves such as Slash to have a 100% crit rate. However, this was tested in-game, so it is unknown whether the Pokémon-Amie boosts were in effect. (TheMaskedNitpicker)
    • Nature Power turns into Tri Attack in link battles. If Misty Terrain is in effect, Nature Power becomes Moonblast. If Grassy Terrain is in effect, it becomes Energy Ball. If Electric Terrain is in effect, it becomes Thunderbolt. (JL_naturewolves, Green Thunder, qwert42, Ves)
    • Sticky Web is a new entry hazard that drops the Pokémon Speed one stage upon switching in. It can be removed through Rapid Spin. (DTC)
    • Geomancy takes one turn to charge up, and on the second turn gives the user a +2 boost in Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed. The charge turn can be removed by Power Herb. (Raseri)
    • Misty Terrain halves damage from Dragon-type moves while in effect. It is unknown whether this applies to damage to Pokémon on the ground, or whether Dragon moves used by grounded Pokémon will have halved damage. (Ves)
    • Magic Room now has +0 priority. (UltiMario)
    • Toxic has perfect accuracy when used by a Poison-type, ignoring even the invulnerable portion of Fly and Dig. (kd24, Zebraiken)
    • Substitute no longer blocks sound-based status moves such as Supersonic and Metal Sound. (Ves, Zebraiken)
    Abilities
    • Auto-weather abilities no longer create permanent weather; the new weather ends after 5 turns. (Pan)
    • Keen Eye now ignores standard evasion boosts (such as those from Double Team). Unknown whether this applies to evasion-boosting abilities such as Sand Veil. (Ves)
    • Overcoat now protects from powder-based moves as well as weather, giving it an identical effect to the item Safety Goggles.
    • Oblivious has now been changed to block Taunt (similar to Mental Herb) but does not block Torment and Encore. (Menshay, #2)
    • Parental Bond causes the move to be used twice, second time at 50% power. The second move is always used against the same target and cannot be redirected, even if the target was fainted by the first hit. However, if the Pokémon uses a multi-hit move (such as Double Hit) the second use of the move will not occur. (Raseri, DTC)
    • Infiltrator now allows damaging moves to bypass a Substitute. (Ves)
    • Protean changes the user's type to match that of the move they are about to use, even status moves. (Stellar, #2)
    Items
    • Stick now seems to raise Farfetch'd's base critical hit rate to 50%, making it 100% with Slash. However, this was tested in-game, so it is unknown whether the Pokémon-Amie boosts were in effect. (TheMaskedNitpicker)
    • Weakness Policy gives the holder a +1 boost to Attack and Special Attack if hit by a super-effective move. It is then used up. (Raseri)

    Miscellaneous
    • Sleep counter no longer resets if Pokémon is switched out. (Pan)
    • Critical hits now deal 1.5x damage, instead of 2x as in the previous 5 generations.
    • Electric-types are now immune to paralysis (including paralysis by Glare or Body Slam). (XY Type Chart)
    • Grass-types are immune to powder moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, PoisonPowder, Cotton Spore). (XY Type Chart)
    • Terrain moves (Misty, Grassy, Electric) apply their effects to all Pokémon on the field that are grounded, including Flying-types and Levitate Pokémon that are knocked down by Smack Down. (DHR-107)
    • Ghost-types are immune to trapping effects, including Mean Look, Shadow Tag, and Arena Trap. They are immune to being trapped by Infestation and similar, but will still take damage every turn. (XY Type Chart, kd24, Nexus)
    Busted theories
    • Prankster's behavior was modified to put status moves ahead of other moves in the same priority bracket, rather than give them +1 priority. (kd24)
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  2. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    One thing I'd like checked out is the new Ghost STAB.

    Does it allow switch-out from Partial trapping moves? Are Ghost types still damaged by those moves? Are Ghost types immune from Shadow Tag or Arena Trap?
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  3. Parallel

    Parallel

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    Can you take the megastone from a pokemon with moves like Trick or Thief?
    Does doing so on an already mega-evolved pokemon revert them? (I'd be so suprised if this were the case)
    Does Magic Room prevent mega-evolution from occuring?

    Has Explosion/ Selfdestruct reverted to pre-Gen V effect?
    Same with Encore?
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  4. AJC

    AJC

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    Team Preview questions.

    1: Do the non-Wi-Fi using link battle modes still not use team preview like gen 5?

    2: Can the Wi-Fi link battle modes chose not to use it or are they still forced to have it like gen 5?

    3: In modes using Team Preview are we still allowed to alter team order as in gen 5?
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  5. Fishaman P

    Fishaman P Mechanics Maniac!

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    Freeze-Dry.
    Is it a dual-type move? When will it hit super-effectively?

    What will happen if it hits, say, Walrein?
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  6. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Are breeding mechanics changed in any meaningful way? Specifically:
    • Are Dream World/Hidden abilities still passed by the female parent only?
    • Does Ditto still prevent Dream World/Hidden ability inheritance from occuring?
    Does Mold Breaker still ignore Telepathy in doubles/triples battles?

    Do Mega Evolutions reset stat changes? (IE: If Garchomp used Draco Meteor and incurs the -2 Sp.Atk debuff, then subsequently Mega Evolves, is it back at +0 Sp.Atk?)

    What priority bracket are Mega Evolutions? Do they occur before switching? If two Pokemon Mega Evolve at the same time (opposite teams of course) which Mega Evolves first?
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  7. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    I'll add the bit for partial trapping moves. Ghost types are already known to be immune to Shadow Tag.

    Mega-Evolution questions are good, added. I didn't add Explosion\Sefldestruct because I don't expect them to change it back - this was actually a good nerf for doubles. It was also a reasonable nerf for Encore.

    I don't expect this to change (except for maybe the non-WiFi modes).

    It's probably not a dual-type move unless there's an indication it's super-effective against other types. But the Walrein question is a good one.

    1. Let's stick to battle mechanics for now.
    2. Mold Breaker being an ability that ignores abilities, I don't expect this to change.
    3. If there's an indication that stat resets occur from mega-evolution, we'll add that.
    4. It's known that mega-evolution happens before any moves. However, whether it occurs before or after switching occurs is unclear. Added.
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  8. Spenstar

    Spenstar

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    Does Misty Terrain really nerf dragon moves?
    How does the relationship between the normal way of getting EVs and super training affect EV training? Do you still get EVs the normal way?
    Who got the Fairy retcon? Preferably an exhaustive list with screenshots
    Any offensive moves changed to fairy?
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  9. V4Victini

    V4Victini Free Ohmagod
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    Awesome this thread is finally a thing :)

    These are the questions I had written down to answer
    • Does Embargo inhibit Mega Evolution?
    • Where exactly does Mega Evolution's priority fall?
    • Can more than one Pokemon switch out/in mid-move? (See U-Turn + Eject Button Behavior)
    • How much does Binding Band boost now that Partial Trapping Residual Damage is 1/8 HP? (Observed by a reliable source in the demo footage)
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  10. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    The move description for Misty Terrain (screenshot) says nothing about Dragon moves. Or even damaging moves. According to the description, it prevents status conditions, ostensibly like Safeguard.

    We won't be discussing training\breeding changes here. Type changes are already discussed in other threads as well.

    Binding Band question is new, added.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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  11. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Permutation of this: If a Mega Stone can be removed by Trick or Switcheroo, can it be removed after Mega Evolution has occured? IE: Trick/Switcheroo a Choice item onto a Mega Evolved Pokemon.
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  12. Vann Accessible

    Vann Accessible

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    Good thread.

    What old pokes were retconned to be Fairies? Please specific if they are dual typed or purely Fairy or not? Confirmed fairies include:
    Jigglypuff (Normal/Fairy)
    Gardevoir (Psychic/Fairy)
    Azuril (Normal/Fairy)
    Marril (Water/Fairy)
    Mawile (Steel/Fairy)
    Mr. Mime (Psychic/Fairy)
    Granbull (Fairy)
    Togepi (Fairy)

    Do weather summon abilities work the same? What about Cloud Nine/Air Lock?

    What are the effects of Electric Field? Does it activate Volt Absorb, Lightningrod and Motor Drive every turn or just once?

    What are the effects of Grass Field?

    Does Evolite work on a pokemon with a Mega Evolution?

    Does Stealth Rock work the same?

    Comprehensive list of TMs and HMs?
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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  13. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    Good question.

    This thread is about battle mechanics, not Pokemon\movepool info.

    The other questions do not make good research questions, as they do not mention a specific idea to test. For example, a better worded question would be "does Stealth Rock still deal 50% damage to Pokémon who are 4x weak to Rock?" Note that we are looking for likely changes, so not every research idea is going into the first post.
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  14. PkMARIO

    PkMARIO

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    Since Electric types are immune to paralysis now, is an electric type with Volt Absorb/Lighting Rod still able to activate the ability if hit by Thunder wave? (Related: Does Stunfisk keep Limber?)

    Does the Sky drop glitch still occur?

    Is Honedge and family affected by Magnet Pull?

    What are the effects of Light ray on Ground, Sap Sipper or Volt Absorb Pokemon?
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  15. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    1. Good question. Thought about it myself but forgot.
    2. Already in the first post.
    3. Also good question.
    4. Added, rephrased to apply to all dual-type moves.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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  16. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Magic Guard: Does this ability still prevent Life Orb damage?
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  17. Jibaku

    Jibaku Balance is a fool's master
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    Can a Pokemon mega evolve when statused? (particularly, Sleep and Freeze).
    Can a Pokemon mega evolve and switch out on the same turn?
    If your megamon faints, can you megaevolve another one?
    Does Forest Curse / Trick-or-Treat affect dual typed Pokemon?
    If Aegislash switches out, does it revert to its shield stance?
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  18. Gerard

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    Does Mega Evolution reset status changes?
    Are hidden abilities accessible though an item?
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  19. R_N

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    Kanpachi, one of the leakers, says that a sign post says that Misty Terrain weakens dragon type attacks
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  20. sandshrewz

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    Imposter / Illusion: how do they work with/against Mega Evolved Pokemon? Does it take up the evolved or unevolved form?

    Cute Charm: could it have been buffed into a defensive Rivalry or otherwise as speculated in the XY thread?

    Trick Room: Does a Pokemon with more than the speed limit still move first?

    Weather: still the same mechanics as BW?

    Color Change: what happens if hit by a Dual-type move? Does it take both types or one of them (and which) or does it not activate at all.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
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  21. PokeMaster366

    PokeMaster366

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    Mega Evolution
    Does Mega Evolution have any effect on pre-existing stat drops/buffs?
    For example, if a Lucario is at -1 Def and Mega Evolves while still having this stat drop, does its Defense go back to +/- 0?
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  22. unfixable

    unfixable formerly Eevee General.
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    One thing I have been dying to know about:
    Pokemon-Amie
    I know it is said to affect the Pokemon in some way, but how? Will it be implemented? How will it work?
    and
    New Weather
    The "Electric Field", what other changes does it make?
    and
    Water Shurkien
    If it gets priority, won't it be one of the most OP moves ever?
    and
    Flying Press / Dual-Type Moves
    How is this gonna work? What about something like Shedinja, will it be affected by one or the other? And what others will we see?
    and
    Sylveon
    Isn't it going to be the best Support pokemon ever? With MIsty Terrain, Baby-Doll eyes, and an awesome typing?
    and finally
    Furfrou
    Its priority attack, Baby-Doll Eyes (Learned by Sylveon as well), will make it near unstoppable on the Physcial side, how will it not be unstoppable?
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  23. Homeslice

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    Not sure if these are of utmost importance but I figure they could use some research:
    Special Moves:
    According to the same link that says Shadow Tag doesn't effect Ghost-types, it also mentions many special-type moves are getting revamped in power and accuracy, probably because of new moves being introduced. Lots of moves will need to be looked at, even if it is just grunt work I feel it's worthy of the research.
    Aura/Pulse Moves:
    Noted in Clawitzers' ability, we have new classifications of moves in Aura and Pulse moves.
    • What moves are Aura or Pulse moves?
    • Do these moves have any other effects besides being effected by abilities?
    Spore and Powder Mechanics:
    Interested in a full list of all powder and spore moves that grass types are unaffected by. I'm sure GameFreak will pull a fast one and throw one in that doesn't have spore or powder in its name.
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  24. unfixable

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    Homeslice
    To add onto Special Moves, the Pledge moves have been confirmed to be 80 BP now, making them a lot more useful.
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  25. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
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    We should check as soon as possible to see whether Analytic still boosts move power on the switch.
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