Battle of Hoenn [Online Competition] - Finished! Erebyssial Wins!

cant say

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Prepare yourselves for Mega-Salamence spam!

Pokemon Global Link said:
Test the Pokémon you've caught in Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire in the Battle of Hoenn Online Competition! You'll compete in Single Battles using only Pokémon listed in the Hoenn Pokédex. All Pokémon above Lv. 50 will be set to Lv. 50 for the duration of the battles. See the regulations for a complete list of eligible Pokémon.

Registration for the Battle of Hoenn Online Competition begins Thursday, January 15, 2015, at 00:00 UTC. You'll need a Pokémon Trainer Club account and your own copy of the Pokémon Omega Ruby or Pokémon Alpha Sapphire video game with a party of eligible Pokémon. And you’ll need to read and accept the regulations on the Pokémon Global Link before the battle period begins.

For more information on the Battle of Hoenn competition, keep checking Pokemon.com and the Pokémon Global Link!
Regulations said:
Sign-Up Period
Thursday, January 15, 2015, at 00:00 UTC through Thursday, January 22, 2015, at 23:59 UTC
• You must sign up during this period in order to be able to participate in the competition.
• You may sign up for the competition once per game registered to your PGL account.



Competition Period
Friday, January 23, 2015, at 00:00 UTC through Sunday, January 25, 2015, at 23:59 UTC

Participant Limit
50,000 (limit subject to change; first come, first served)

Age Divisions
Junior/Senior Division: Born 2000 or later
Junior Division players are limited to playing between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m., based on the eastern-most time zone in each player’s country.
Masters Division: Born 1999 or earlier

Ranking Results Announcement
Friday, January 30, 2015 (announcement time subject to change)

Compatible Games
Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire

Competition Rules
• This competition uses Single Battle format.
• Players may use Pokémon found only in the Hoenn Pokédex of Pokémon Omega Ruby or Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, excluding Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, and Deoxys.
• Players may use only Pokémon found, caught, hatched from an Egg, or received through a special promotion in Pokémon Omega Ruby, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, Pokémon X, or Pokémon Y.
• Pokémon brought over from Pokémon Black, Pokémon White, Pokémon Black 2, or Pokémon White 2 via Poké Transporter cannot participate in this competition.
• Register 3–6 of your Lv. 1–100 Pokémon to your Battle Box.
• All Pokémon above Lv. 50 in this competition will automatically become Lv. 50 for the duration of each match.
• Only three of the Pokémon you register to your Battle Box can be used during each match.
• A 30-minute time limit for each match will automatically be enforced in-game, beginning at the start of each battle. If the outcome has not been determined when the time limit expires, the game will automatically apply tiebreakers to determine a winner.
• At the beginning of each battle, players have 90 seconds to select three Pokémon with which to battle.
• At the beginning of each turn, players have 60 seconds to select a move or change the Pokémon in battle. If a player has not made his or her selections at the end of this period, the game will automatically make selections for the player.
• Players may battle up to 10 games per day of the competition. Any unplayed games will carry over to the following day. A new day begins at 00:00 UTC.
• For additional details, please come back to check the competition’s regulations page when registration opens.

Participation Requirements
• A Pokémon Trainer Club membership
• A wireless Internet connection
• A Pokémon Omega Ruby or Pokémon Alpha Sapphire game with a Game Sync ID registered in the Pokémon Global Link (PGL)
• The birth date you have registered in your Pokémon Trainer Club account will determine the age division in which you play. If it’s discovered during the competition that your birth-date information is incorrect, you may be disqualified from the competition and future competitions.
tl;dr:
  • Being played on Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, not XY
  • Bring 6, pick 3 singles played at level 50
  • Hoenn Dex only (excluding Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Jirachi and Deoxys)
  • Pokemon can only be entered if they have the blue pentagon for being caught/hatched in gen VI (no transfers)
  • 10 battles per day, 3 days, 30 games total
Eligible Mega Evolutions incase you didn't want to use Salamence:
  • Sceptile
  • Blaziken
  • Swampert
  • Gardevoir
  • Gallade
  • Alakazam
  • Gyarados
  • Sableye
  • Mawile
  • Aggron
  • Medicham
  • Manectric
  • Sharpedo
  • Camerupt
  • Altaria
  • Banette
  • Pinsir
  • Heracross
  • Glalie
  • Salamence
  • Metagross
  • Latias
  • Latios


Personally, I'm struggling for ways to stop Salamence from wrecking everything. Its list of checks was already limited, I think it's time for gimmicks / nichemons to shine!

A list of things:
  • Sturdy Magnezone can survive a hit and retaliate with HP Ice:
252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 168-200 (98.8 - 117.6%)
  • Bold Regice can survive up to +1 M-Mence and KO with Ice Beam:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regice: 133-157 (71.1 - 83.9%)

0 SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 252-300 (148.2 - 176.4%)
  • Mega Aggron can take on up to +4 Salamence and mostly KO with Ice Punch
+4 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 118-141 (81.3 - 97.2%)
252+ SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 118-139 (81.3 - 95.8%)

252+ Atk Mega Aggron Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 160-192 (94.1 - 112.9%)
  • Solid Rock Rhyperior can take a hit from up to +2 'Mence and mostly KO with Ice Punch. Never-Melt Ice guarantees the kill, however you may want a Passho berry to survive rouge Hydro Pumps
+2 252+ Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 162-192 (72.9 - 86.4%)
252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 312-369 (140.5 - 166.2%)
252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Passho Berry Solid Rock Rhyperior: 156-184 (70.2 - 82.8%)

252+ Atk Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 160-192 (94.1 - 112.9%)
252 Atk Never-Melt Ice Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 176-208 (103.5 - 122.3%)
  • Focus Sash Froslass can revenge kill 'Mence with Ice Beam. Timid outspeeds neutral-natured 'Mence, Scarf can outrun unboosted 'Mence (but who won't use Dragon Dance?)
  • Special Sharpedo can do the same with Ice Beam
  • And of course, because it appears that Pokemon below level 50 will retain their level, maybe you could troll people with Sandstorm + Lv.1 Aron / Scrappy + Endeavor + Quick Attack Taillow fun

Going through these calcs it seems that the only way of dealing with M-'Mence is by revenge killing it (as nothing can stomach switching in on it), after doing which you'll have a severely damaged Pokemon that will be easily revenge killed itself. It also looks like M-Salamence players can just EV theirs to live those hits and just keep going. I probably haven't provided the best examples either, they're just things off the top of my head.

So I ask you, how will YOU deal with Mega Salamence?

RESULTS
1st. Erebyssial (1781)
2nd. DonDonKun (1739)
3rd. Blitz099 (1731)

4th. Psangli (1711)
5th. yoshirrrr (1708)
6th. Artic (1695)
7th. Sakuretsu (1685)
8th. Roadagain (1646)
9th. wintermute0 (1638)
10th. JES (1626)
 
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ethan06

⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'm not sure how I feel about this meta... Special Season 7 was doubles, so Mega Salamence was a little more manageable; in Singles, however, it's a completely different (and much scarier) Pokémon to deal with. It's worth noticing that all of the counters that cant say has listed are weak to Fighting-type moves, besides Froslass which can be dealt with by a coverage move (more or less every Fighting type gets some combination of Stone Edge, Knock Off and Bullet Punch) - a cheese team consisting of Mega Salamence, a Fighting-type to cover it's counters and the Lv1 Aron he mentioned is a very real possibility.

oh the cheese (Salamence) @ Salamencite
Jolly
Intimidate -> Aerilate
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Return
-Earthquake

oh the cheese (Machamp) @ Life Orb
Adamant
No Guard/Guts
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
-Dynamic Punch/Close Combat
-Knock Off
-Bullet Punch
-Ice Punch

oh the cheese (Aron) @ Shell Bell
blah
Sturdy (Lv1)
252 blah/252 blah/4 blah
-Endeavor
-Sandstorm
-Toxic
-Protect
 
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Total theory here but would Azumarill or Swampert with ice punch work? Also, Sharpedo with ice fang?

I could imagine that SR plus phazing could also be interesting.
 
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ethan06

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is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Sharpedo might if you end up faster somehow without dying. Remember there's no redirection in this format... a Rock-type with Wide Guard might be able to go toe-to-toe against the two attacks set whilst still being able to support it's team, while allowing a teammate to deal with Salamence.

edit: time for bed :[
 
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Sharpedo might if you end up faster somehow without dying. Remember there's no redirection in this format... a Rock-type with Wide Guard might be able to go toe-to-toe against the two attacks set whilst still being able to support it's team, while allowing a teammate to deal with Salamence.
This is gonna be single battles. Wide Guard won't have much merit.
 
252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 72-85 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
LOL Mega Mence checked
 
I've no experience with BS in the new games right now but if we can only use Hoenn mons isn't the ideal counter M-Mawile? My calcs suggest a pure OHKO chance with Ice Punch. It resists the two types he uses most, has intimidate before mevolve, and has priority Sucker Punch.


==============

According to GL he runs the following:

1Earthquake82.8%
2Dragon Dance71.5%
3Double-Edge68.4%
4Outrage38.6%
5Draco Meteor26.8%
6Fire Blast18.7%
7Hyper Voice18.3%
8Facade11.2%
9Substitute10.5%
10Return8.6%

And the natures are:
1Adamant55.2%
2Jolly15.1%
3Naive8.5%
4Modest7.7%
5Timid7.1%
6Naughty3.5%

And obviously only runs Salamencite and Intimidate.

Moves he uses when killing things:
1Double-Edge37.6%
2Earthquake19.6%
3Hyper Voice10.9%
4Outrage8.1%
5Return5.9%
6Draco Meteor5.1%
7Facade3.9%
8Fire Blast2.3%
9Dragon Claw1.9%
10Frustration1.2%


===========
 
My calcs suggest a pure OHKO chance with Ice Punch.
I seriously don't think there's a need for Ice Punch, which is basically a waste of a moveslot for anything that isnt named salamence, when you have STAB Play Rough that OHKOs anyway and has a good chance to ohko even at -1.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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I think this tourney is pretty cool. It's not as one-sided towards mega Salamence as one might think it is, and there's always a strange set that's actually good in these tournaments, which is what I really like about them (like curse Sylveon in the Eevee cup lol, that thing was unstoppable).

It's still too early to say, but from what I looked into so far, Milotic is looking really promising.

Also, Soul Dew is not mentioned in the regulations. I know there's like a 0.0000001% chance we'd be able to use it, but if we can...
 
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I think this tourney is pretty cool. It's not as one-sided towards mega Salamence as one might think it is, and there's always a strange set that's actually good in these tournaments, which is what I really like about them (like curse Sylveon in the Eevee cup lol, that thing was unstoppable).

It's still too early to say, but from what I looked into so far, Milotic is looking really promising.

Also, Soul Dew is not mentioned in the regulations. I know there's like a 0.0000001% chance we'd be able to use it, but if we can...
Don't bank on soul dew... Remember that time they mis-translated the Japanese rules in the Halloween competition, so instead of every team of 6 requiring a Gouregist, every battle required a gouregist?

So, I was thinking about this. There's no auto-Sand. No auto-Rain. No auto-hail... but Ninetails is legal. I'm probably going to make a sun team, since without other weathers to interfere, it could be very good... Viable chlorophyll users include: Shiftry... and that's it, since Bellosom, Tropius, and Vileplume have shitty speed. Also, without Mega Charizard Y to take up the mega slot, you have some other options - although as far as fire types go you're limited to Blaziken (better off without the mega usually) and Camerupt (too slow). It needs some thought, but I think it could work.

edit: although... the hoenn does have the best rain sweepers in Kingdra, Swampert, AND Ludicolo. That might see some play.

Trick toom also has most of their viable pokemon still available. You lose out on Cress as a set-up mon, but you still have Gardevoir and Dusclops to set up. You also have Mawile or Camerupt as sweepers. That could be good.
 
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I'm not exactly sure what to think of this meta.....One thing i can say is mega salamence is still scary as sh*t but i'm sure someone will use some weird ass set and make it work, and then everyone and there mother will be using it. All of the checks Can't Say mentioned are easly handled by a teamate of mega salamence's. So for now lets just find some cool pure gimmick that will handle mega salamence.
 
Donphan seems a possible check to mega salamence. Being fully invested into defense and hp, it would take at least +3 attack for a jolly mega mence using stab return to OHKO. Donphan could be swapped in first turn while it probably boosts or attacks and have a 2 changes to hit with ice shard. While it may not kill salamence with donphan lacking attack investment, salamence would still be heavily crippled enough that another pokemon could easily finish the job. If salamence switches out donphan can also lay rocks to threaten it coming back in. While there is nothing that can outright check this monster that will be legal, this could be a possibility with minimal casualty damage to your team.

On a side note, I doubt froslass will be legal, seeing as its not in the hoeen pokedex, being a gen 4 evolution.
Also haven't been able to confirm or deny, but seeing as its a gamefreak tourny, it will probably be 3 v 3. Might be smart to just always run a special attacker with scarf and ice beam if its 3 v 3 in order to always be able to revenge kill Mence in 1 turn.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Donphan seems a possible check to mega salamence. Being fully invested into defense and hp, it would take at least +3 attack for a jolly mega mence using stab return to OHKO. Donphan could be swapped in first turn while it probably boosts or attacks and have a 2 changes to hit with ice shard. While it may not kill salamence with donphan lacking attack investment, salamence would still be heavily crippled enough that another pokemon could easily finish the job. If salamence switches out donphan can also lay rocks to threaten it coming back in. While there is nothing that can outright check this monster that will be legal, this could be a possibility with minimal casualty damage to your team.

On a side note, I doubt froslass will be legal, seeing as its not in the hoeen pokedex, being a gen 4 evolution.
Also haven't been able to confirm or deny, but seeing as its a gamefreak tourny, it will probably be 3 v 3. Might be smart to just always run a special attacker with scarf and ice beam if its 3 v 3 in order to always be able to revenge kill Mence in 1 turn.
Gen 4 additions were added to the hoenn pokedex.
 
^^^This.

http://www.marriland.com/pokedex/or-as

For a complete list of the 'New Hoenn Pokedex'.

====

My only argument for Ice Punch over Foul Play is to allow for different IV setups than just 50% split between HP/Atk.

I personally love Snipedra and think that its a very good Hoenn 'mon. It has two type weaknesses and a 4x weakness to Freeze-Dry. With new crit mechanics draco-meteor spam is fun and assures death on nearly any Hoenn pokemon.

Weather will be interesting in this meta.
 
Would it be correct to assume that these will be 3v3 battles, and not 6v6?
They're 3v3, but you can bring a team of up to 6 and then select 3 at team preview.

A few notes after playing for awhile:

  • Salamence isn't as OP as I'd expected. I was using a Mega Aggron to check it, and it worked very well -- I could cripple it with Twave or 2HKO it with Ice Punch. Keeping Aggron healthy can be tricky though -- it has no recovery. (I was also using it to check a bunch of other physical attackers, so it got a bit worn down.)
  • There's no sleep clause, so Breloom can terrorize anything slower than itself. A 4th-gen-style SubPunch Breloom works quite well, and there aren't that many usable grass-types to absorb Spore. It can't really touch Sableye, though. (Come to think of it, Roserade might be viable, but I'm not sure how well it works.)
  • Metagross does well against offensive teams -- Camerupt and Swampert are the only offensive 'mons I can think of that beat it 1v1. Aggron and Sableye work well defensively against it.
  • I tried out 3 attacks+Sleep Talk Gardevoir with a life orb, and it punched holes in a lot of things. Theoretically, mega gardevoir would have the advantage of being able to kill breloom through a Sub with Hyper Voice.
 
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I got to #15 on the showdown ladder. Threats I've seen:

Salamence. Everywhere. I haven't lost a game to one, however, simply because if you keep offensive momentum you can hit it before it sets up. Mega-mence without set-up isn't great.

Triple Dragon teams. Its like a throwback to gen 4, when 4Drag2Mag was a thing. I've seen teams with Latios, Latias, and Salamence, or Lati, Altaria, Mence, or some other combo. I really do thing faster dragons, like scarf mence/lati pulls its weight.

No weather. I thought I'd see some rain or sun, but nope. nothing. Granted, its only been around 10 games, but still. Also, I've only seen 1 TR team, despite the fact that you could use Mawile or Camerupt as a TR mega.

Breloom is good. It can up a sub and recover back damage with poison heal, and then spore whatever comes in.
 
I just laddered a bit and got to around 1200ish. I can agree with coolking and Dragonwhale in that MegaMence isn't as threatening as it seems as long as you can keep pressure on your opponent. Honestly speaking, I'm more worried about Trick Room teams since there are quite a few pokemon in Hoenn that can make good use of it--mainly M-Camerupt and M-Mawile.
 
Just tried a trick room team -- it didn't go too well.

The issue is that with only there isn't really anything like Reuniclus that can set up trick room, take a few hits, and sweep once trick room is up. Gardevoir, Dusclops, Camerupt, Azumarill, and Mawile can each do two of the three.

Given the above, and given that it's 3v3, you have two options:

a) Have one TR setter, and two sweepers. This can work, but after you initially set up Trick Room, you'll have a hard time setting it up again. This means that the opponent can easily stall and force switches, using up the TR turns, and you probably won't be able to set it up again.

b) Have two TR setters, and one sweeper. This is pretty much bound to fail -- if the opponent has a counter to your sweeper, the rest of your team is just dead weight.

I'm not saying it's impossible to create a working TR team, but it's fundamentally more difficult than in standard tiers.
 
Just tried a trick room team -- it didn't go too well.

The issue is that with only there isn't really anything like Reuniclus that can set up trick room, take a few hits, and sweep once trick room is up. Gardevoir, Dusclops, Camerupt, Azumarill, and Mawile can each do two of the three.

Given the above, and given that it's 3v3, you have two options:

a) Have one TR setter, and two sweepers. This can work, but after you initially set up Trick Room, you'll have a hard time setting it up again. This means that the opponent can easily stall and force switches, using up the TR turns, and you probably won't be able to set it up again.

b) Have two TR setters, and one sweeper. This is pretty much bound to fail -- if the opponent has a counter to your sweeper, the rest of your team is just dead weight.

I'm not saying it's impossible to create a working TR team, but it's fundamentally more difficult than in standard tiers.
This is complete theorymon, but maybe try Xatu as a set-up mon? Magic bounce lets you deal with taunt and no one will even bother with stuff like swagger. Xatu is also the only hoenn pokemon with TR and Uturn/Volt Switch. It's got some synergy with mawile to boot. Memento Gardevoir could also pave the way for SD Mawile, who only needs 3 turns to wreck everything.
 

Jibaku

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Some thoughts:

1) Special/Mix Mence may be better than Physical Mence. With no Special Walls in this meta (except Regice, who's really afraid to come into you anyways. And specialmence may carry Double Edge anyways). A couple of strong Intimidators (Gyara, Mence, Mawile, Mega Manectric), physical walls (Skarmory, Aggron), and a few Will-o-Wisp sources are all things that can get in your way as DDMence. However, not much can handle a set of Hyper Voice/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Double Edge.

2) Gyarados sounds pretty annoying to stop in this metagame. It has a way to bypass every check it has, but may still be kept down by the relatively weak BP of its moves. In any case, Gyarados is also still a viable physical wall w/ Rocky Helmet and can take on Mence Double Edges and keep Blaziken in check.

3) Mega Manectric can leave dents everywhere. Swampert still stops it cold unless it has HP Grass though. I bet most people will run HP Ice for killing Mence and denting Lati@s anyways.

4) Expecting Blaziken to run HP Ice for Mence. No Talonflame in this meta does it wonders.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Just out of curiosity, did anyone run into Sejun, and if so, what was he using? (I assume it's the real deal, since not anyone can score 27-2 in just a few days). No copying, of course, but it'll give us an insight to this tournament from the perspective of one of the most experienced pokemon players out there.
 
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Vinc2612

The V stands for VGC
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I am new to online competition so I have a silly question: do those tournaments helps in any way to reach worlds? I know there is a point system, but are those taken in account?
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
I am new to online competition so I have a silly question: do those tournaments helps in any way to reach worlds? I know there is a point system, but are those taken in account?
Most of these, such as this one, are just for fun, with the rewards just being some pokémiles that everyone gets for entering.

The ones called "international challenge" do give you CP for VGC though.
 

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