Battle Spot Community Create-A-Team: Triples [TEAM COMPLETE, IN TESTING STAGE]

[ethan06]

Thundurus is a pretty awesome idea as it does patch up a number of holes in our team... However, I'm still concerned that we don't have any defensive answer to Water moves, and we still can't reliably check Sylveon. If Amoonguss isn't an option we could try Mega Venusaur or something else that can deal with Rain teams and random Fairy moves (Venusaur can tank Ice Beams too which is a plus). Having two Fire-types on the same team in a meta where Rain is such a dominant playstyle just scares me a bit is all...

 

[EnGarde]

Kanga would definitely limit its movements, but if we end up running Talonflame then it can protect Latios with Quick Guard.

We have to be careful not to overestimate talonflame's survivability. I imagine quick guard will be useful preventing turn 1 fake out, but I can't see talonflame surviving more than 2-3 turns max. If we have to rely on it to check random sucker punches throughout the match, then I think we have a problem.

For this reason, as well as its trouble overcoming other common threats in the metagame, I vote no to latios.

...since we only have one mon in the back.

??? I don't understand this. Triples are 6x6, yes? So we would have 3 pokemon in the back?

We could eschew a Dragon since it's becoming clear that they're not helping us with our Rain problem or with the rest of the team. I will instead propose Thundurus-I.

- It provides the team with much-needed speed.
- Priority Taunt. If Hitmontop dies, then Wide Guard still won't be a horrible issue. Taunt is still awesome either way.
- Timid Thundurus outspeeds Adamant Talonflame by one point. Therefore, it's almost our all-purpose check because our Taunt will go first and we can OHKO with Thunderbolt because it can hurt us with Flare Blitz: 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 109-130 (70.3 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 174-205 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO - however we don't have to run LO and Water Spout is rendered useless even if we just do 80%+. Non-LO does 72 - 84.9% where Water Spout has a laughable 42 BP.
- Scarfers kick its ass but I feel that the way the team is going, we are well prepared for the common Scarfers.
- Not having to waste our Mega stone to check a few common threats.

The main con is that Thundurus is fragile and is Kanga food but I feel that it fits well with the team. What do people think about Thundurus?

Thundurus is an interesting option. If we're willing to drop the dragon type, I'd also like to propose Rotom Wash as a bulkier option. Another will-o-wisper would greatly improve our odds vs. Mega Kanga, as well as other physical attackers, but since we've got talonflame (at least in the early game), we could also run one of rotom's other myriad support options. We've got some flexibility on potential EV spreads to use with the washing machine, as an uninvested neutral nature tbolt is enough to guarantee a 2HKO on average bulk mega blastoise, and blastoise, even with max investment in sp.attack, has at best a % to 2HKO on neutral nature average invested rotom-w (Please note that there is still nature + 256 EVs left to be assigned to rotom-w in these calculations!):

0 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 96-114 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 73-87 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO

Also, rotom-w has a base speed of 86, while mega blastoise has a base speed of 78, so we're likely to outspeed, or can calc to guarantee we outspeed. I can't see our team supporting both, though, so the question becomes:

Thundurus-I, or Rotom-W?

or

?

EDIT: Forgot to add the first time that rotom is a pretty strong counter to opposing talonflame (it might be able to get a tailwind, will-o-wisp, or attack off, though), and can afford to ignore it for a turn or two (if there's a bigger threat on the field). Using the same unfinished spread above (leaving us a chance to choose nature, held item, and 256 EVs at a later time), we have:

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 174-206 (112.9 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 144-170 (93.5 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (In case we want to use the greater accuracy option)

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 59-69 (37.5 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Flare blitz is the same)

That bird can't break this washing machine. ^^

Thundurus is a pretty awesome idea as it does patch up a number of holes in our team... However, I'm still concerned that we don't have any defensive answer to Water moves, and we still can't reliably check Sylveon. If Amoonguss isn't an option we could try Mega Venusaur or something else that can deal with Rain teams and random Fairy moves (Venusaur can tank Ice Beams too which is a plus). Having two Fire-types on the same team in a meta where Rain is such a dominant playstyle just scares me a bit is all...

Your answer of mega venusaur intrigues me. Do you have a set in mind? Something like:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll > Thick Fat
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis / Protect

This guy can play equally well in the rain (as mega) or in the sun (with chlorophyll). We don't have much of a reason to worry about it (since we have heatran, lol), but Mega Charizard Y and sun is also still a thing (#7 in pokemon rankings, 62.4% likely to carry the Y mega stone), and being able to turn our opponent's sun against them could be useful, even if its only for one turn. Checks blastoise and sylveon, though intimidate support (hitmontop, possibly a second) is needed to tank hits from mega kanga.

EDIT: Fixed the wording in a few places, added a few things to previous comments.

Also, don't think this warranted another post, but in response to ethan06's post below, I think his set is a bit better for the needs of our team, especially with hitmontop providing intimidate support.

 

[ethan06]

I was thinking something along the lines of this:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Modest
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
252 HP/196 Sp. Atk/60 Def
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Leech Seed/Sleep Powder
-Protect/Sleep Powder

The spread was a simple thing that allows Venusaur to just avoid a 2HKO from Kang Fake Out+Return. It still avoids a 2HKO from anything Blastoise can do and isn't OHKOed by Zard-Y Fire Blast (252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 144-170 (77 - 90.9%). I feel like Synthesis won't be too useful given Rain, and in Triples Venusaur can get a Leech Seed off on several Pokémon at once given favourable conditions, so between Leech Seed, Protect and Giga Drain it'll be able to keep itself healthy. It's a Mega though, and my earlier point still stands in regards to handling our Mega slot carefully. Still, Mega Venusaur is probably our best bet in regards to stopping Blastoise and Sylveon.

EDIT: Slashed in Sleep Powder because what's the point of taking advantage of opposing Drought if we can't do anything to Charizard before it creams us?

 

[Campaign]

We have to be careful not to overestimate talonflame's survivability. I imagine quick guard will be useful preventing turn 1 fake out, but I can't see talonflame surviving more than 2-3 turns max. If we have to rely on it to check random sucker punches throughout the match, then I think we have a problem.

This is pretty much the case. The recoil from FB/BB hurts him a lot in triples and there are a huge amount of counters, not to mention him getting worn down by people simply using Protect and attacking with the other pokemon. He does have the ability to take out one or two pokemon before he goes down though so I think there is definitely a place for him. His priority BB has huge value late game, when you are both down to 1-2 Pokemon and you need to hit hard, and first. Even if he is low and dies from recoil, it can easily win the game.
You also can't really sacrifice many speed EVs to up his HP as you're Quick Guard will be out-sped by Fakeout from Liepard, Meowstic, Mienshao, Infernape and he is already out-sped by Ambipom.

I think Rotom over Thundurus. Although I love Prankster taunt in triples, his weakness to Ice (Which basically everyone carries through Ice Beam or Ice Punch) combined with his low defense/hp is a huge problem but more-so, almost every team will be running Rock Slide which gives two flying that are weak to a very common threat. Rotom on the other hand, is fairly versatile and bulky. You can give him Scarf/Trick to shut down enemy supports, run him with sitrus berry and give him some defense for chip damage through volt/WoW or simply have him as a damage dealer. In any case, I feel that WoW on him is mandatory.

I also agree no Latios.

Something else to think about: Heal Pulse Aromatisse to keep sweepers alive and nuke dragons.

 

[Age of Kings]

??? I don't understand this. Triples are 6x6, yes? So we would have 3 pokemon in the back?

I'm a baddie, I must have been thinking Rotation instead of Triples -_-;;

Thundurus is an interesting option. If we're willing to drop the dragon type, I'd also like to propose Rotom Wash as a bulkier option. Another will-o-wisper would greatly improve our odds vs. Mega Kanga, as well as other physical attackers, but since we've got talonflame (at least in the early game), we could also run one of rotom's other myriad support options. We've got some flexibility on potential EV spreads to use with the washing machine, as an uninvested neutral nature tbolt is enough to guarantee a 2HKO on average bulk mega blastoise, and blastoise, even with max investment in sp.attack, has at best a % to 2HKO on neutral nature average invested rotom-w (Please note that there is still nature + 256 EVs left to be assigned to rotom-w in these calculations!):

0 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 96-114 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 73-87 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO

Also, rotom-w has a base speed of 86, while mega blastoise has a base speed of 78, so we're likely to outspeed, or can calc to guarantee we outspeed. I can't see our team supporting both, though, so the question becomes:

Thundurus-I, or Rotom-W?

or

?

EDIT: Forgot to add the first time that rotom is a pretty strong counter to opposing talonflame (it might be able to get a tailwind, will-o-wisp, or attack off, though), and can afford to ignore it for a turn or two (if there's a bigger threat on the field). Using the same unfinished spread above (leaving us a chance to choose nature, held item, and 256 EVs at a later time), we have:

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 174-206 (112.9 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 144-170 (93.5 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (In case we want to use the greater accuracy option)

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 59-69 (37.5 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Flare blitz is the same)

That bird can't break this washing machine. ^^

Yeah, Thundurus was more than anything else an idea to show that strictly adhering to FSD doesn't necessarily help us. From your calcs, it definitely shows that it is likely a better choice than Thundurus, especially if we have Tailwind support.

However,

I was thinking something along the lines of this:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Modest
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
252 HP/196 Sp. Atk/60 Def
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Leech Seed/Sleep Powder
-Protect/Sleep Powder

The spread was a simple thing that allows Venusaur to just avoid a 2HKO from Kang Fake Out+Return. It still avoids a 2HKO from anything Blastoise can do and isn't OHKOed by Zard-Y Fire Blast (252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 144-170 (77 - 90.9%). I feel like Synthesis won't be too useful given Rain, and in Triples Venusaur can get a Leech Seed off on several Pokémon at once given favourable conditions, so between Leech Seed, Protect and Giga Drain it'll be able to keep itself healthy. It's a Mega though, and my earlier point still stands in regards to handling our Mega slot carefully. Still, Mega Venusaur is probably our best bet in regards to stopping Blastoise and Sylveon.

EDIT: Slashed in Sleep Powder because what's the point of taking advantage of opposing Drought if we can't do anything to Charizard before it creams us?

Well-thought out spread. Honestly, we won't need to choose between Rotom-W or Thundurus (I mean, unless the idea of an Electric still appeals to us if we decide to go with Venusaur). I would take out 8 EV from SpA and put it in Speed because people love speed creep and who knows what kind of sheningans the base 76-78 crowd might run (Blastoise and Heatran). Better safe than sorry.

I'm personally more of a fan of Synthesis because Giga Drain can help patch up its reduced effectiveness in rain. Leech Seed isn't the best thing to run in a metagame that appears to be fairly fast-paced, so for this reason Sleep Powder is the better choice imo. I agree with EnGarde 's suggested set of Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder / Synthesis with a modification of your spread. Might as well run 68 Def to avoid the OHKO from Sharp Beak Talonflame, the only real nemesis we have other than Zard Y (252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Mega Venusaur: 156-186 (83.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO): imo we should run 252 HP / 68 Def / 180 SpA / 8 Speed. As mentioned, Sleep Powder is pretty sweet if the enemy sets up sun, but keep in mind that it won't be able to take advantage of Chlorophyll until the second turn due to predetermined speed order when a turn begins. (This is the main differentiation between Charizard-Y and Ninetales because Zard Y needs to Mega Evolve first whereas Ninetales' sun is on the field prior to the first turn.)

EDIT: Going off the above, I honestly could go either way on Protect or Synthesis. Whichever you guys think.

This is pretty much the case. The recoil from FB/BB hurts him a lot in triples and there are a huge amount of counters, not to mention him getting worn down by people simply using Protect and attacking with the other pokemon. He does have the ability to take out one or two pokemon before he goes down though so I think there is definitely a place for him. His priority BB has huge value late game, when you are both down to 1-2 Pokemon and you need to hit hard, and first. Even if he is low and dies from recoil, it can easily win the game.
You also can't really sacrifice many speed EVs to up his HP as you're Quick Guard will be out-sped by Fakeout from Liepard, Meowstic, Mienshao, Infernape and he is already out-sped by Ambipom.

I think Rotom over Thundurus. Although I love Prankster taunt in triples, his weakness to Ice (Which basically everyone carries through Ice Beam or Ice Punch) combined with his low defense/hp is a huge problem but more-so, almost every team will be running Rock Slide which gives two flying that are weak to a very common threat. Rotom on the other hand, is fairly versatile and bulky. You can give him Scarf/Trick to shut down enemy supports, run him with sitrus berry and give him some defense for chip damage through volt/WoW or simply have him as a damage dealer. In any case, I feel that WoW on him is mandatory.

I also agree no Latios.

Something else to think about: Heal Pulse Aromatisse to keep sweepers alive and nuke dragons.

Yeah, agreed that the next slot is pretty much down to Rotom-W or Mega Venusaur. I am biased towards Venusaur though for sustain and being a principal Sylv check.

Heal Pulse is a fairly interesting option, but I think that Aromatisse needs Trick Room to function well. Definitely on the table if we want to discuss a Fairy next though, I like the suggestion.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

If you do think about Thundy you may wanna consider a Defiant one with Sky Drop. I've fought a few teams with Defiant Thundy/Tornadus and they weren't bad at all.

I really don't think I need to explain how threatening something is after a Defiant kicks in once or twice.

I also once time got massacred by a Competitive Wigglytuff. Dat Hyper Voice.

 

[SionReaver]

This is a fascinating thread, I wish I had something to offer but there's not much I can think of to add. Plus, I have a love of running less common stuff which likely wouldn't be too helpful here. Me and Mythtrainer fought a few times, kicked my ass but managed to beat them once. Hopefully with the introduction of a triples sim, there's eventually enough traffic for a triples meta game board like with doubles but I suspect that would take a bit of time first. I can count on my fingers of how many people(I know of anyway) that play triples frequently on Smogon.

I'll try to think of more to add after work.

 

[ethan06]

I'm personally more of a fan of Synthesis because Giga Drain can help patch up its reduced effectiveness in rain. Leech Seed isn't the best thing to run in a metagame that appears to be fairly fast-paced, so for this reason Sleep Powder is the better choice imo. I agree with EnGarde 's suggested set of Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder / Synthesis with a modification of your spread. Might as well run 68 Def to avoid the OHKO from Sharp Beak Talonflame, the only real nemesis we have other than Zard Y (252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Mega Venusaur: 156-186 (83.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO): imo we should run 252 HP / 68 Def / 180 SpA / 8 Speed. As mentioned, Sleep Powder is pretty sweet if the enemy sets up sun, but keep in mind that it won't be able to take advantage of Chlorophyll until the second turn due to predetermined speed order when a turn begins. (This is the main differentiation between Charizard-Y and Ninetales because Zard Y needs to Mega Evolve first whereas Ninetales' sun is on the field prior to the first turn.)

EDIT: Going off the above, I honestly could go either way on Protect or Synthesis. Whichever you guys think.

I like this spread, losing 12 Sp. Atk EVs is a small compromise for the added utility here. As for Protect vs. Synthesis, I vote Protect as it allows us to skip Zard Y's first turn on the field and take advantage of the sun thereafter. It also allows Venusaur to stay on the field much longer in general. It honestly depends on how much we want to rely on Giga Drain...

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Modest
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
252 HP/68 Def/180 Sp. Atk/8 Spd
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Sleep Powder
-Protect/Synthesis

 

[EnGarde]

Hi! I've got a free moment (on vacation, lol), so I thought I'd pop in. I won't be giving detailed info, but I am reading comments and contributions. I do think the team could support rotom-w in addition to mega venusaur. I've been thinking, since the dragons weren't helping what our team needs, maybe a fire / water / grass core would be better, with heatran + talonflame / mega venusaur / rotom-w or another water type.

As for the proposed spread, 4 EVs are going to waste. IV/2 + EV/8 Must Equal a Whole Number:

This is one of the most important things to do when EV training anything, because in Pokémon, every stat counts. Because the game always rounds down the stat equation, you will always be left with a nice whole number, which can be seen from your Pokémon’s summary screen. This means that even if you had a stat of 59.9, the game would round it down to 59, instead of rounding up to 60. So, who cares? The EV’s do! Most people will RNG their Pokémon for “perfect” IV’s, aka 31 in a stat. 31/2=15.5. Aha! See? Now, let’s say we invest 252 EV’s in that stat. 252/8=31.5. 15.5+31.5=47, which is a whole number, which is why when you’re running a 252/252/4 spread, as long as you’re running max IV’s, nobody complains. The main issue comes down to when you’re custom EV training, and you use a number that is evenly divisible by 8, such as 80, for example. 80/8=10 + 31/2=15.5 = 25.5, which by game standards equals 25. So, to save EV’s, we take 76/8=9.5 + 31/2=15.5, which is again 25, but with 4 less EV’s. If you adjust all your stats, you may end up saving quite a few EV’s.

Mega Venusaur's speed investment should be either 4 EVs or 12 EVs. Thus, I propose:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Modest
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
252 HP/68 Def/180 Sp. Atk/4 Sp. Def/4 Spd
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Sleep Powder
-Protect/Synthesis

SionReaver Everyone that wants to help contribute is welcome. :) If you'd like to keep following the discussion, once we have a full team chosen, we'll need people to test it on battle spot. That'd be a great way to help and contribute! :)

EDIT: Okay, so I did give some detailed information. ^_^ Anyways, back to vacationing. :P

 

[Age of Kings]

MTE, we dropped Thundurus but yeah Defiant looks pretty cool. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the bulk our team needs.

Great point EnGarde . I actually punched in the numbers and your spread gives us 1 point of SpD while my 8 Speed EVs actually don't give us more speed lol. I'm sure we'd rather not run too much more speed so the Venusaur spread looks fine.

Ethan, good point, but then that requires some risky play and reliance on a move with less than reliable accuracy, as good as it is. Don't forget we also have Fake Out at our disposal so we don't have to need Protect for that first turn. I think this is something that will go down to testing obviously but I feel that Synthesis will give us greater staying power.

Once we get the Protect / Synthesis debacle down, then we have our third team member!

This is a fascinating thread, I wish I had something to offer but there's not much I can think of to add. Plus, I have a love of running less common stuff which likely wouldn't be too helpful here. Me and Mythtrainer fought a few times, kicked my ass but managed to beat them once. Hopefully with the introduction of a triples sim, there's eventually enough traffic for a triples meta game board like with doubles but I suspect that would take a bit of time first. I can count on my fingers of how many people(I know of anyway) that play triples frequently on Smogon.

I'll try to think of more to add after work.

That's the point of this thread - we are all looking to learn about Triples and eventually run it in game so we play more Triples! (Also everything EnGarde said.) Feel free to stick around and throw out ideas if you think of any!

 

[EnGarde]

Whew! Today was a busy day for me. ^_^ To unwind, I decided to check PGL for information to help me choose mega venu's moveset (protect vs. synthesis), and I was really surprised to see that Mr. Meowstic has moved to #11, and garchomp #12. Wasn't garchomp much higher, like #7 or #8? I can't remember. -.-

Maybe we should think about a community effort to keep systematic records of what the top 12 is over time, just so we can keep track of these fluctuations? I mean, if I hadn't seen politoed in the top 12 a while ago, I wouldn't have realized that rain was a prevalent threat. What other changes have I missed?

Here's the current top 12 for triples:

Hide

1. talonflame
2. hitmontop
3. kangaskhan
4. aegislash
5. heatran
6. sylveon
7. landorus-t
8. blastoise
9. charizard
10. greninja
11. meowstic-m
12. garchomp

Anyways, on to the reason I was trawling PGL: moveset stats for venusaur.

Hide

1. sludge bomb 78.2%
2. giga drain 60.3%
3. protect 44%
4. sleep powder 42.6%
5. leech seed 28.7%
6. grass pledge 25.1% (indication of mega 'zard Y + non!mega venu team?)
7. synthesis 23%
8. earthquake 21%
9. hidden power 18.8% (HP fire?)
10. solar beam 6.9% (probable 2nd indication of ‘zard y + non!mega venu team)
11. other moves 51.5%

Protect (#3, 44%) > sleep powder (#4, 42.6%) > leech seed (#5, 28.7%) > synthesis (#7, 23%). I think that this information is muddied by the amount of non!mega venusaur currently being used, as venusaurite, despite holding the #1 rank in usage, accounts for only 42.4% of items held.

I dunno, though. I'm really torn. Mega and non!mega venusaur are usually run much differently than each other, and it makes sense for non-mega venusaur to prefer protect as the 4th moveslot to guarantee it makes it through the 1st turn unscathed as a partner mega charizard y mega evolves and puts up the sun. In the end, if I was forced to choose right now, I'd currently vote for protect, but I'm willing to listen to arguments for synthesis.

---

If going on from this point, we're thinking about mega venusaur as our 4th, based on all the team reports from VGC that I've read (which, yeah, I know that VGC != Battle Spot), the "big 3" of mega evolutions--Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Charizard Y, and Mega Mawile--are all big trouble spots for mega venusaur. Which...yeah, I think our current choices might have that covered. Heatran checks mega mawile and mega charizard y, and hitmontop checks mega kangaskhan, since it has intimidate and close combat. However, do we want to take a moment to reflect on our currently chosen hitmontop's spread? Remember:

0 Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 132-156 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

---

Posting another team snapshot (hope you guys don't mind these, please let me know if you don't want me to post these anymore):

Support Hitmontop @ Rocky Helmet/Eject Button/Sitrus Berry
Careful
Intimidate
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Speed
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide Guard
- Fake Out

Bulky Attacker Heatran @ Air Balloon/Life Orb/Chople Berry/Sitrus Berry/Leftovers
Modest
Flash Fire
180 HP/252 Sp. Atk/76 Spd
-Heat Wave
-Earth Power
-Ancient Power
-Protect

Team Mega Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Modest
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
252 HP/68 Def/180 Sp. Atk/4 Sp. Def/4 Spd
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Sleep Powder
-Protect/Synthesis

Support Talonflame @ Sitrus berry/focus sash/sky plate
(Asking again: any complaints against standard sweeper EV spread?)
Adamant
Gale Wings
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Brave Bird / Acrobatics (if holding a consumable item)
- Tailwind / Flare Blitz (FB gives better coverage against mega mawile)
- Will-o-Wisp / Flare Blitz
- Quick Guard / Flare Blitz

??? Suggestions appreciated!
Some 2 Other Pokemon

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmm that current team might be a wee bit weak to Perishtrapping teams. Trick Room teams will give you lots of problems too.

In Triples you have to have some sort of overwhelming force somewhere in your team in my experience. Some top Japanese will use stuff like Politoed/Kingdra or Volt Switching Mega Manectric (to get the Toed back in)/Ludicolo (fastest Fake Out in Swift Swim) leads.

I've never really had much luck with Synthesis in any meta as it's so easy to mess with the weather. So, I'm feeling meh about it (I kinda wanna try an HP Rock Venusaur for the lulz though).

I highly suggest having a Taunter on your team. I use Gyarados to Taunt and Togekiss to Air Slash any Trick Roomer that I suspect is holding a Mental Herb, or I just try to slam it with Waterfall and Air Slash and hope for the flinch.

A Greninja may do well on this team provided you have a way to deal with Trick Roomers.

 

[Age of Kings]

Sorry for the late response guys, I've been pretty swamped irl and managing several projects at once for Battle Spot.

I'm going to agree with the Protect crowd since that seems to be the consensus all around. I have updated the OP with our Venusaur and spread!

EnGarde, that looks like a good skeleton. I don't think we've actually committed to Talonflame yet although it still seems like a good idea, waiting for Ethan and possibly others to explicitly say "yes Talonflame" lol.

Hmm that current team might be a wee bit weak to Perishtrapping teams. Trick Room teams will give you lots of problems too.

In Triples you have to have some sort of overwhelming force somewhere in your team in my experience. Some top Japanese will use stuff like Politoed/Kingdra or Volt Switching Mega Manectric (to get the Toed back in)/Ludicolo (fastest Fake Out in Swift Swim) leads.

I've never really had much luck with Synthesis in any meta as it's so easy to mess with the weather. So, I'm feeling meh about it (I kinda wanna try an HP Rock Venusaur for the lulz though).

I highly suggest having a Taunter on your team. I use Gyarados to Taunt and Togekiss to Air Slash any Trick Roomer that I suspect is holding a Mental Herb, or I just try to slam it with Waterfall and Air Slash and hope for the flinch.

A Greninja may do well on this team provided you have a way to deal with Trick Roomers.

Thanks for the valuable feedback! Venusaur is there to check rain (and Manectric), obviously it's not handling it by itself but it is a buffer. Perish Trap could definitely be a concern because I had a friend mentioning that he quit the ladder from Perishtrap spam lol.

We are thinking maybe Sylv down the line for that overwhelming power because we have its checks covered imo. Is Specs Hyper Voice good enough for that?

You suggested Gyarados earlier, did you not? That might be an interesting option, however if we run Talonflame and Venusaur and Hitmontop all together and add even more utility, my concern is not having much offensive prowess. We can at least try to prevent a first turn TR with Fake Out. If all else fails, we are built pretty bulky. Gyarados may not be fast enough to get that Taunt off because iirc Gengar is the main Perishtrapping culprit.

 

[ethan06]

I don't think we've actually committed to Talonflame yet although it still seems like a good idea, waiting for Ethan and possibly others to explicitly say "yes Talonflame" lol.

Eh. I'm leaning towards it but I have some misgivings about the dangers that come with two Fire-types as I've mentioned. However, it's really one of those Pokémon that's just far too good to pass up - if you guys are cool with it I am too :)

re Taunt, if we decide to run Talonflame we can always find a slot for Taunt on that. Of course, it has some 4MSS to deal with already between STABs, WoW, Quick Guard, Tailwind and now Taunt. Depends on how much of a support role we want it to take.

 

[EnGarde]

Yeah, in the team snapshot, I copy/paste the last snapshot and edit, and forgot to remove the question on whether the sweeper spread was acceptable, lol. In the suggestions box, I tried to offer a lot of the pokemon that had been recommended earlier (I might have missed one. Sorry to anyone if I missed your recommendation!)

I offered a lot of water types because I think that'd really help our team's type synergy. Here's the current snapshot of our team synergy:

Our current team has a few overlapping weaknesses (flying--hitmontop and mega venusaur; water--heatran and talonflame; psychic--hitmontop and mega venusaur), but it is actually pretty strong defensively, since we have a ton of resistances (everything but ghost), and we don't have a lot of weaknesses to watch out for. 3 of our teammates are pretty bulky (hitmontop, heatran, and mega venusaur), which is really great for a starter team, since conceivably most of our important team members can live a hit and still do work, especially if we make a mistake during a match.

tl;dr: Lots of warm fuzzies for our current team lineup. :) I've got a good feeling about this, guys.

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Now, onto the next team suggestion: sylveon. What do you guys think about this set?

Sylveon @ Life Orb / Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Modest
Pixilate
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power (??? Fire? -- #2 60.6% likely)
- Shadow Ball
- Protect / Moonblast

I'm offering a 252/252 basic bulky sweeper spread, but is there anything important that we can out-speed if we invest a little in speed? Do we want to go 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed for a choice scarf set?

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One suggestion that comes from me is milotic. It has the ability competitive, same as wigglytuff, which MythTrainerInfinity mentioned as a strong option (along with defiant tornadus and Karxrida's recommendation of defiant bisharp). The typing and move-pool is arguably not as good as wigglytuff, but the BST is better, with access to recover and a higher special attack stat to boost.

Milotic
Ability: Competitive
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse / Recover
- Protect / Recover

Let me know what you guys think. :)

EDIT: After reading the 2 posts below mine, I'm taking a wait and see approach. I'd like to hear more opinions and suggestions before making any more suggestions myself. :)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

There are two ways to deal with Perishtrapping teams...

One, you prevent them from doing it with Taunt or try to Flinch them (Scarfchomp, don't you fail me with your Iron Head flinch!).

Or... you muscle them out. Hyper offensively. Sylveon may be risky since it is kinda slow and when you see one in the middle... You know what that fairy Vee is gonna do, but if you do get that Hyper Voice off... it will hurt. Follow Me is always an option if you wanna take some pressure off of something.

Anywho... I'll be more than happy to use my Season 3 top US triples team against whatever we come up with if you want some practice. Just give me a holler.

 

[Karxrida]

EnGarde I not entirely sure if Competitive Milotic would be a good choice. Unlike Bisharp it is very dependent on getting that boost and has no Priority to abuse it will. It has better special bulk, not weak to Earthquake or Heat Wave, and Recover which are nice.

Something I was thinking about was Mixed or Physical Thundurus-I with Defiant. It can provide Sky Drop support while also being able to deal with Flying-types that are team is going to have trouble with (and deals with Heatran's Ground and Fighting weaknesses too!).

Thundurus
Nature: Jolly/Naive
Ability: Defiant
Item: Life Orb
252 Att, 4 Def/SpA, 252 Spd

Sky Drop
Wild Charge/Thunderbolt
Knock Off/HP Ice/HP Flying
Protect/Taunt

I'm not good with sets and they're probably a better EV spread for how much SpA we need for certain OHKOs and whatnot but it's a start.

 

[Age of Kings]

Since there's misgivings with Talonflame, let's discuss Sylveon next. We've been eyeing it since page 1, and I want to give it a shot and I'm a little tired of discussing supports lol. I really think we should have some more offensive muscle before discussing Taunters or extra utility. Is anyone else feeling in the same boat?

We can run a basic spread with Specs. EnGarde , the speed benchmarks are:
92 Speed EVs - 92 Speed (yes really), outruns base 70s with 4 Speed
132 Speed EVs - 97 Speed, outruns base 75s with 4 Speed
148 Speed EVs - 99 Speed, outruns base 78s with 4 Speed
172 Speed EVs - 102 Speed, outruns base 80s with 4 Speed

Of course, mons that are faster than us anyways running speed creep EVs of their own will defeat the purpose of running our speed. I do think that running at least 92 Speed is a good idea to punish the lazy people running Politoed and Hitmontop. Sylv shares a speed tier with Tar, P2, and Aegi if they don't run -Speed for whatever reason. That's the picture we have now.

Thundurus was on the table, if you guys are still down for it, priority Taunt could be interesting behind some offensive prowess. This is also a spaghetti-on-the-wall suggestion, but if Sky Drop Thundurus is seriously on the table, I would also want to put Aero on the table for theorymoning. Since it also gets Wide Guard, Tailwind, and other shit, we could potentially consider it as a Talonflame substitute but a) it carries many of the same common weaknesses and b) we still need to remember we can't run something horribly Kanga-weak.

MTE, sounds good for testing down the line.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Since there's misgivings with Talonflame, let's discuss Sylveon next. We've been eyeing it since page 1, and I want to give it a shot and I'm a little tired of discussing supports lol. I really think we should have some more offensive muscle before discussing Taunters or extra utility. Is anyone else feeling in the same boat?

We can run a basic spread with Specs. EnGarde , the speed benchmarks are:
92 Speed EVs - 92 Speed (yes really), outruns base 70s with 4 Speed
132 Speed EVs - 97 Speed, outruns base 75s with 4 Speed
148 Speed EVs - 99 Speed, outruns base 78s with 4 Speed
172 Speed EVs - 102 Speed, outruns base 80s with 4 Speed

Of course, mons that are faster than us anyways running speed creep EVs of their own will defeat the purpose of running our speed. I do think that running at least 92 Speed is a good idea to punish the lazy people running Politoed and Hitmontop. Sylv shares a speed tier with Tar, P2, and Aegi if they don't run -Speed for whatever reason. That's the picture we have now.

Thundurus was on the table, if you guys are still down for it, priority Taunt could be interesting behind some offensive prowess. This is also a spaghetti-on-the-wall suggestion, but if Sky Drop Thundurus is seriously on the table, I would also want to put Aero on the table for theorymoning. Since it also gets Wide Guard, Tailwind, and other shit, we could potentially consider it as a Talonflame substitute but a) it carries many of the same common weaknesses and b) we still need to remember we can't run something horribly Kanga-weak.

MTE, sounds good for testing down the line.

Hmm Sylveon...

Outside of Round teams they seem pretty easy to take down. Quiet Sylveon may have some potential, however. Another honorable mention is Theorymon 's Curse Last Resort set he used in the Eevee Friendly.

Quiet Sylveons act as a nuke for (or even against) Trick Room teams, plus you can use Quick Attack as well to finish something off. I've had at least a couple Sylveons use Quick Attack to finish off my Scarfchomp. If you do use a Trick Room team I strongly advise you use at least two Trick Roomers. Every good Triples teams has a way around usually one, but not always two of 'em.

For Round teams Mega Garde and Sylveon are a must and can even threaten the mightiest of special walls. Assist Mr. Meowstic allows you to get priority on Round as well (Quick Guard will only block Meowstic's Round, but the other Rounds will follow and work normally).

So yeah if anyone wants to test out stuff...

I'm going to be trying to focus more on helping English speaking players with le Triples rather than play in the Battle Spot at least pre-ORAS...

 

[ethan06]

Thundurus was on the table, if you guys are still down for it, priority Taunt could be interesting behind some offensive prowess. This is also a spaghetti-on-the-wall suggestion, but if Sky Drop Thundurus is seriously on the table, I would also want to put Aero on the table for theorymoning. Since it also gets Wide Guard, Tailwind, and other shit, we could potentially consider it as a Talonflame substitute but a) it carries many of the same common weaknesses and b) we still need to remember we can't run something horribly Kanga-weak.

I'm liking the idea of Thundurus more and more now that we have a solid defensive answer to Water moves in Mega Venusaur. Between the two of them we'd pretty much never have to worry about Rain again, and Thundurus also gives us priority Taunt and Thunder Wave and a lot of useful offensive coverage. Another earthquake immunity is also great and puts Heatran more at ease. The problem with Thundurus though is that it's really frail and it really dislikes Fake Out if we don't give it Protect (and eat up another precious moveslot in the process).

I'm fairly neutral as far as Sylveon is concerned, though. Another attacker is always nice, as is something to switch into Dragons if Heatran is low on health, but it's resistances really don't bring much to the table and looks fairly well prepared for in terms of the usage stats (namely, Aegislash, Heatran and Zard-Y, as well as most of the physical attackers being able to dent it significantly). In other words, Sylveon is (in my opinion) a Pokémon that we should add if we can't find any more useful things to put in our last two slots. I just don't think it accounts for anything that we don't already have covered. I'm open to arguments though, so convince me if you think Sylveon is a good idea :)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I think it may be more productive if we started practicing with ideas rather than just speculate about it.

That said... Another team option is Aegislash. It gets Wide Guard too just in case you wanted to give Hitmontop Quick Guard. Plus Mega Kang wouldn't want to meet one in a dark alley.

If you do use it I would suggest Togekiss as well. Being able to shoot an Air Slash across the field is nice and the Weakness Policy Kiss is a nasty surprise. Plus you'd be able to flinch potential Trick Roomers and not have to worry about wasting a Taunt to a Mental Herb.

I feel we also need a way to deal with Smeargle. Dark Void is super evil... Hmm...

Edit: I will be playing in the Triples ladder on Showdown after work each night as long as I remember to play. I strongly suggest playing more than theorymoning. If you need help or playing tips just give me a shout. I really want people to succeed in this quirky, yet fun format.

It is also worth mentioning that the current world champ of Pokemon, Se Jun, also played Triples (among other formats) on Battle Spot. He was top 10 in Triples usually iirc.

 

[Age of Kings]

I think it may be more productive if we started practicing with ideas rather than just speculate about it.

We have to have a team first. I'd rather not just slap on things and then ladder with them, unless that's what everyone else wants. The entire purpose of this project is to actually think about Triples and then try it out. This is not an individual effort, of course everyone is free to do whatever they want and we do especially welcome feedback from ladder experience but I'm not going to tell anyone "welp we're not discussing anymore, go do your own thing on your own". If things don't work with the team we come up with in the end, then we will discuss and make changes, and hopefully learned something from the metagame. And if people don't want to put in the effort to get the Pokemon before the team is done, then I made it clear they can contact myself or EnGarde who has volunteered if they need anything to get started on testing.

I'm liking the idea of Thundurus more and more now that we have a solid defensive answer to Water moves in Mega Venusaur. Between the two of them we'd pretty much never have to worry about Rain again, and Thundurus also gives us priority Taunt and Thunder Wave and a lot of useful offensive coverage. Another earthquake immunity is also great and puts Heatran more at ease. The problem with Thundurus though is that it's really frail and it really dislikes Fake Out if we don't give it Protect (and eat up another precious moveslot in the process).

I'm fairly neutral as far as Sylveon is concerned, though. Another attacker is always nice, as is something to switch into Dragons if Heatran is low on health, but it's resistances really don't bring much to the table and looks fairly well prepared for in terms of the usage stats (namely, Aegislash, Heatran and Zard-Y, as well as most of the physical attackers being able to dent it significantly). In other words, Sylveon is (in my opinion) a Pokémon that we should add if we can't find any more useful things to put in our last two slots. I just don't think it accounts for anything that we don't already have covered. I'm open to arguments though, so convince me if you think Sylveon is a good idea :)

Yeah, that's definitely a good point. Remember that we haven't decided on Talonflame yet since people feel iffy on it, so we have 3 more mons to decide on. Don't have much to say in return because you have a better argument than mine - after all, I was enamored with Thundurus earlier on! It gives us some much needed speed and priority Taunt is wonderful.

My preferred set:

Thundurus
Timid (outruns Adamant Talonflame by a point, so we can outspeed Tailwind and etc)
lazy 252 SpA / 252 Speed spread
Thunderbolt
Taunt
Thunder Wave
HP Ice? for Dragons.

Thunder Wave is awesome for status and speed control. We can also go mixed with LO, but I would prefer Tornadus for Defiant abuse because it gets a better mixed movepool - Acrobatics, Heat Wave, etc.

 

[ethan06]

Yeah, that's definitely a good point. Remember that we haven't decided on Talonflame yet since people feel iffy on it, so we have 3 more mons to decide on. Don't have much to say in return because you have a better argument than mine - after all, I was enamored with Thundurus earlier on! It gives us some much needed speed and priority Taunt is wonderful.

My preferred set:

Thundurus
Timid (outruns Adamant Talonflame by a point, so we can outspeed Tailwind and etc)
lazy 252 SpA / 252 Speed spread
Thunderbolt
Taunt
Thunder Wave
HP Ice? for Dragons.

Thunder Wave is awesome for status and speed control. We can also go mixed with LO, but I would prefer Tornadus for Defiant abuse because it gets a better mixed movepool - Acrobatics, Heat Wave, etc.

We could always run double genies, with Thundurus performing a Prankster support role and Tornadus becoming a Defiant mixed attacker with *possibly* Tailwind. Problem with this is they share common weaknesses and are both quite frail (they both have identical 79/70/80 bulk, which is... unimpressive). However, it could have some benefits, in that between the two we'd have supreme dominance over Rain (between Thunderbolts and possible Hurricanes, as well as beating out Swift Swim with Tornadus Tailwind), speed control for days (Thunder Wave and, again, Tailwind) and a strong offensive presence that can threaten a lot of the format with super effective hits.

Thundurus @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Timid
Prankster
252 HP/252 Spd/4 Sp. Atk (idk some bulky spread)
-Thunder Wave
-Thunderbolt
-Taunt/Protect
-Hidden Power [Ice]/Protect

Tornadus @ Focus Sash
Naïve
Defiant
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Sp. Atk
0 Def IV, 0 Sp. Def IV, 0 HP IV (gotta activate that Sash)
-Tailwind
-Acrobatics/Hurricane
-Heat Wave
-Protect

Doing this would mean no Talonflame and therefore no attacking priority, but there are other benefits to it. At least the weaknesses are well covered between Hitmontop, Heatran and Venusaur. Thoughts?

EDIT: type effectiveness- (what site do you use for your synergy charts EnGarde? Best to keep them all looking the same if we can :p )

Hide

http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?3,485,237,642,641

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

We have to have a team first. I'd rather not just slap on things and then ladder with them, unless that's what everyone else wants. The entire purpose of this project is to actually think about Triples and then try it out. This is not an individual effort, of course everyone is free to do whatever they want and we do especially welcome feedback from ladder experience but I'm not going to tell anyone "welp we're not discussing anymore, go do your own thing on your own". If things don't work with the team we come up with in the end, then we will discuss and make changes, and hopefully learned something from the metagame. And if people don't want to put in the effort to get the Pokemon before the team is done, then I made it clear they can contact myself or EnGarde who has volunteered if they need anything to get started on testing.



Yeah, that's definitely a good point. Remember that we haven't decided on Talonflame yet since people feel iffy on it, so we have 3 more mons to decide on. Don't have much to say in return because you have a better argument than mine - after all, I was enamored with Thundurus earlier on! It gives us some much needed speed and priority Taunt is wonderful.

My preferred set:

Thundurus
Timid (outruns Adamant Talonflame by a point, so we can outspeed Tailwind and etc)
lazy 252 SpA / 252 Speed spread
Thunderbolt
Taunt
Thunder Wave
HP Ice? for Dragons.

Thunder Wave is awesome for status and speed control. We can also go mixed with LO, but I would prefer Tornadus for Defiant abuse because it gets a better mixed movepool - Acrobatics, Heat Wave, etc.

I honestly think it would be best if we started testing things out as we generate ideas. That way we can refine and discuss as we go (that is at least how I usually go about making teams).

No offense to anyone, but this thread has been going for 25 days... Without much testing and if you wanna ladder in the current season, time is running short.

That said I am happy to help breed things that people want to test out. Especially if you do not want to spend hours trying to get a Wide Guard Honedge.

Triples is a really weird meta, so I think playing around with a team would give us some better insight in building a team. As long as people communicate their testings...

 

[Age of Kings]

ethan06 : Double genie is really risky for the reasons you mentioned and we still need a Kanga check. I only suggested Tornadus if we needed Defiant abuse which is a really interesting concept, but I'm more enamored with priority Taunt to stop Perishtrappers as MTE mentioned and kill Talonflame support. Actually, Thundurus makes a wonderful check to most of the support mons in the meta now that I think about it, while still maintaining offensive prowess. (Also, HP Ice: 252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 156-184 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO; 252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 160-192 (81.6 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery; OHKO with LO, they 2HKO with Rock Slide, plus Rain teams hit hard by STAB).

I like Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Taunt / Thunder Wave, it's everything we need from it imo. The main thing we would have to discuss is whether we need to run Timid with 252 EVs or some other fancy, which outruns Adamant Talonflame by a point, and if we need LO to secure those OHKOs mentioned above, or Sitrus Berry/Sash/resist berry to elongate its tenure on the field.

I honestly think it would be best if we started testing things out as we generate ideas. That way we can refine and discuss as we go (that is at least how I usually go about making teams).

No offense to anyone, but this thread has been going for 25 days... Without much testing and if you wanna ladder in the current season, time is running short.

That said I am happy to help breed things that people want to test out. Especially if you do not want to spend hours trying to get a Wide Guard Honedge.

Triples is a really weird meta, so I think playing around with a team would give us some better insight in building a team. As long as people communicate their testings...

I totally agree with the sentiment that actual experience works better than theorymoning. However, you need to take into consideration that we don’t have the same amount of resources or people as the other CCATs (which, depending on participation, take just as much time). Also, I’m not aware that we’re operating under a time limit other than finishing before OR/AS and we’re obviously going to finish well before then. I myself do not have the time to make a separate team and ladder due to the fact that I work overtime on most weekdays and that I am busier than when I first started the project due to my involvement in site projects related to Battle Spot. We have people who are willing to test the team when it’s done and are lurking this thread without saying anything but would otherwise not play triples without this initiative. One of the goals is to give people initiative because if they just threw things together without thought (even if experience trumps theorymoning), they’ll get crushed on the ladder and quit. Or, it’s the fear of of the unknown which prevents them from trying in the first place.

Yes, 25 days is long for an individual teambuilder making a team on their own but reasonable imo for a community effort contingent on everybody having a say, especially since there's a lot of other things going on. One Pokemon a week is fine considering that there’s new material posted every day, especially when we don’t have clear knowledge of the metagame we are playing.

Again, I appreciate your input from experience. I encourage you and others who agree with you to continue to contribute metagame experience to the thread if you’ve made your own teams. I know you don’t mean offense, but I’d rather the timetable not be criticized especially when our goals are the same – to promote Triples play and show how much of an interesting metagame it is. I’m fine if it’s done in a slower and methodical manner to make the acclimation process more open, so to speak. I just ask for patience and it will end up being a valuable experience for all in the long term.

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P.S. Fuck people who take usernames with common names or items lol, so easy to tag them by mistake :P