Battle Spot - Simple Questions and Answers

[Omastar68]

Use Fake Out on Lopunny imo. If you want a real gimmick then use Last Resort in the last slot.

Actually thought about Last Resort, but it seems really questionable. That said, w/ moves like Fale Out and HJK, which itlol often use before its main normal STAB, it can possibly pull it off. I decided on Adamant 52 HP(mainly to survive 0 Atk Talon's BB)/ 204 Atk(need max speed and I'm Adamant so less Atk is fine)/ 252 Speed(for max speed base 115s and below.) Moves are Return/ HJK/ Substitute/ Encore.

I dropped Mega Venusaur for Mega Sableye. Originally I was planning a standard Calm Mind set, but w/ a secondary coverage move over WoW, but since I have less status moves now(used to use T-Wave on like half my team,) I sort of need WoW, so I decided on a Bold 252 HP/ 244 Def/ 12 Spe(for paralyzed max speed base 100s and below. Could drop to 4 Spe to creep base 20s and below, or more for certain paralyzed targets, idk.) Seth_ uses Foul Play on his Mega Sableye, and I think that works really well, particularly w/ my Thundy's ParaFusion antics and two burn users who encourage physical attackers to stack SD boosts.

I changed Mamo from AV to Choice Scarf, since I got swept w/ absolutely no resistance by CB Garchomp-Sab deals pretty well w/ it, too, Outrage is a meager 6.3% to OHKO pre mega, and if WoW hits I've pretty much beat it. I'm also kind of thinking about using Quagsire, as Swaggering foes can turn physical attackers into monsters that can OHKO my whole team, but Unaware ignores that, and foes that have been confused by Swagger are safe to set up on. Problem is Quagsire doesn't have the best set up moves(Amnesia or Stockpile seem pretty good, though,) as it likes to use Scald, so PuP would only be powering up itself and EQ, while Curse would only power up EQ. Minimize Clefable might be a better idea(over what I'm not sure though,) as it is the only per decent Poke w/ Unaware, and can use either Healing Wish or T-Wave(though not both w/ Minimize or I have one attack and no recovery.)

Lastly, how bad is a fairy weakness compounded by red of my Pokemon when I only have one resist? Granted, I rarely bring Chomp, and the othe two that share the weakness are my two Megas which I won't bring together, but still.

 

[hetoord]

I disagree with giving Lopunny any amount of EVs to survive any attack from Talonflame. Lopunny isn't supposed to take on Talonflame, and if you're only expecting 0 atk Talonflame any other Talonflame is going to give you a bad time. Choice Band, Life Orb, Sharp Beak and Sky Plate are common. The best thing Lopunny can do against Talonflame (and this works even against an Adamant 252 Atk Choice Banded Talonflame) is to switch into something that can properly handle Talonflame. Lopunny is fast and can hit decently hard so it should be geared towards that. HJK/Return/Substitute/Encore is fine (one of the Japanese teams posted in the Japanese resources uses this moveset if my Google Translate skills are correct), but I'm not a fan of those EVs.

 

[Omastar68]

I disagree with giving Lopunny any amount of EVs to survive any attack from Talonflame. Lopunny isn't supposed to take on Talonflame, and if you're only expecting 0 atk Talonflame any other Talonflame is going to give you a bad time. Choice Band, Life Orb, Sharp Beak and Sky Plate are common. The best thing Lopunny can do against Talonflame (and this works even against an Adamant 252 Atk Choice Banded Talonflame) is to switch into something that can properly handle Talonflame. Lopunny is fast and can hit decently hard so it should be geared towards that. HJK/Return/Substitute/Encore is fine (one of the Japanese teams posted in the Japanese resources uses this moveset if my Google Translate skills are correct), but I'm not a fan of those EVs.

Yea, I usually think more about trying to survive certain stuff than what I can do back , Lopunny's Return, even Adamant, isn't nearly enough for KOing the bulky Talons that run 0 Atk., I'll make sure I can make four subs, and then throw the rest in Atk if there aren't any other things I can invest those few extra EVs to survive.

 

[dsm77773]

A good Heatran set to run with the Whimsicott/Rotom-W/Heatran core?

EDIT: Forgot to say it's for singles

 

[Omastar68]

A good Heatran set to run with the Whimsicott/Rotom-W/Heatran core?

Adamant Bug Bite. But seriously, you probably want Earth Power/ Ancientpower/ Flash Cannon/ Overaheat or Lava Plume w/ Specs and a Modest nature. It's funny, in my mind Heatran and Gliscor used to be major threats, like the biggest ones, but turns out they see relatively low usage. Also, is there any viability to a mixed Heatran(seems like there should be. Explosion is great for bulky waters and the like, and I feel like Rees some hope for a Glame Charge set, actually tried that once.) And when Flame Body, its HA, is released, will that likely see use or no? I imagine less than half of Heatrans will run it since it has Lava Plume for burns, but idk.

 

[PumpedAaron]

A good Heatran set to run with the Whimsicott/Rotom-W/Heatran core?

Btw, is this Singles, Doubles, Triples, Rotations?

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Adamant Bug Bite. But seriously, you probably want Earth Power/ Ancientpower/ Flash Cannon/ Overaheat or Lava Plume w/ Specs and a Modest nature. It's funny, in my mind Heatran and Gliscor used to be major threats, like the biggest ones, but turns out they see relatively low usage. Also, is there any viability to a mixed Heatran(seems like there should be. Explosion is great for bulky waters and the like, and I feel like Rees some hope for a Glame Charge set, actually tried that once.) And when Flame Body, its HA, is released, will that likely see use or no? I imagine less than half of Heatrans will run it since it has Lava Plume for burns, but idk.

Flame Body turns its annoying-as-fuck Fire immunity into a neutrality, meaning things like Char-Y actually counter it pretty hard, but I guess it would have the "Guts effect" that Conkeldurr / Heracross have; ie, most people won't WoW them out of the mere threat/possibility of Guts unless they confirm they're not running Guts (ie Trace/Skill Swap, Heracross getting a Moxie boost, etc), but with Heatran you can't switch into WoW/Fire moves without tipping your hand (same way you don't switch Iron Fist Conk into WoW).

Mixed, Flame Charge isn't for damage (even on MegaZard-X, it's not for damage) so just run Modest on it; only mixed option imo is Stone Edge and that's pretty questionable.

 

[Omastar68]

Is Covet w/ a Normal Gem viable on Cinccino? My understanding of it is Covet gets the Technician boost plus the gem boost, and then steals the foe's item. That seems pretty good, though Cinccino will miss Skill Link. Ambipom can't make use of Skill Link at all, so it always uses Technician. Both these Pokemon, particularly Ambipom, are kinda questionable in Battle Spot, though I'm surprised they never use this(according to PGL,) and even in he tiers they belong in Covet + NG isn't mentioned in the analysis. So either my understanding of the mechanics is off or...idk. One problem w/ this strat tho is they're liable to steal an item they can't make proper use of, like Choice Specs, a Rocky Helmet, an AV, or Lefties.

 

[Psynergy]

Cinccino in general is not very good and I wouldn't really recommend running it in any respect (even in RU neither are very good and Ambipom is a running gag of "when will this thing finally drop to NU"). If for some reason you are running Cinccino though, there's no reason not to run Skill Link because the moves Cinccino has to be remotely threatening to anything are those that abuse Skill Link (Tail Slap, Rock Blast/Bullet Seed). The fear of stealing an item that's detrimental is a big reason why Covet is just bad though, so you're better off with Life Orb Skill Link (or preferably not running Cinccino).

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Is Covet w/ a Normal Gem viable on Cinccino? My understanding of it is Covet gets the Technician boost plus the gem boost, and then steals the foe's item. That seems pretty good, though Cinccino will miss Skill Link. Ambipom can't make use of Skill Link at all, so it always uses Technician. Both these Pokemon, particularly Ambipom, are kinda questionable in Battle Spot, though I'm surprised they never use this(according to PGL,) and even in he tiers they belong in Covet + NG isn't mentioned in the analysis. So either my understanding of the mechanics is off or...idk. One problem w/ this strat tho is they're liable to steal an item they can't make proper use of, like Choice Specs, a Rocky Helmet, an AV, or Lefties.

Skill Link Ambipom is bad; always use Technician. Cinccino should always run Skill Link; anything else is a bad idea.
Stealing items is generally bad; Trick has its ups and downs but it is justifiable. Knock Off is amazing. Thief / Covet are horrible.

Ambipom, the best use I've found for it is a fast chipper/scout. Here's what I run:

Ambipom @ Silk Scarf / Focus Sash
Jolly, 252 Atk, 4 Sp. def, 252 Speed
Ability: Technician

- Double Hit
- Taunt /Low Kick
- Fake Out
- U-Turn

Silk Scarf Ambipom actually hits pretty hard; the one-two punch of Fake Out + Double Hit can actually KO Garchomp before it even gets to move (to be fair though, that horrifying Rough Skin damage) thanks to STAB and Technician. Obnoxiously fast U-Turn always holds momentum, and for a lead position I find Ambipom to be grand. Taunt can stop SR setups and all that other cheese off of 115 Speed, much like Azelf, but Low Kick dents Heatran, Kangaskhan, etc. Technician also buffs your 60/80 power Low Kicks into 90/120 respectively. You could do LO, but tbh it's better off on a teammate as Normal moves/U-Turn is all Ambipom really does so Silk Scarf is better, imo. Late game, it can abuse obnoxious speed to pick off weakend foes, or just do the pimpslapping itself and let a teammate clean up.

 

[Sun Wukong]

I have two quick question. I'm going to breed a Mega Charizard-Y. The first question is which nature is better Timid or Modest? The last question should I breed to get the egg move Dragon pulse or Ancient Power? Or should I not worry about egg moves?

 

[GateCreeper]

I have two quick question. I'm going to breed a Mega Charizard-Y. The first question is which nature is better Timid or Modest? The last question should I breed to get the egg move Dragon pulse or Ancient Power? Or should I not worry about egg moves?

You can go either way but Timid is always preferred. Breeding for either of those is not really recommended because Dragon Pulse can be learned via Move Tutor and Ancient Power is pretty meh on Mega Charizard Y. There aren't really any other noteworthy egg moves on Megazard Y so you don't need to breed for any.

 

[Sun Wukong]

You can go either way but Timid is always preferred. Breeding for either of those is not really recommended because Dragon Pulse can be learned via Move Tutor and Ancient Power is pretty meh on Mega Charizard Y. There aren't really any other noteworthy egg moves on Megazard Y so you don't need to breed for any.

You're a life saver. Now I can cut down on the amount of time to breed for the Charmander I want.

 

[Omastar68]

Are any of Accelgor, Durant, or Claydol viable in any Battle Spot meta?

 

[ethan06]

I've used Durant a little and it has nice coverage for hitting Kangaskhan and assorted Fairy types with Superpower and Iron Head but its frailty lets it down and Hustle lets it down more. Could be cool but you're better off using Scizor or perhaps Escavalier in nine out of ten situations. Don't use Claydol, there are better options for Screens setting and even they're pretty trash. It doesn't do much other than that so no point (Flygon is a better Levitating Ground-type if for some reason you want to wall Stunfisk or whatever). Accelgor is an interesting one - you can set Spikes, Final Gambit on something, maybe run a Specs set that gets hard countered by Chandelure and Aegislash and also every Flying-type, there's a couple options but it doesn't have a defined niche and there are better fastmons (although most are megas). Base 145 Speed is pretty redundant when none of the meta's most promiment threats are faster than base 130 anyway - just run a Mega Gengar, or Manectric, or Lopunny, or Alakazam, or literally any priority user to deal with the fast shit instead. Out of those, Accelgor seems the most interesting - use it as a Spikes/Encore lead though if anything.

 

[Omastar68]

What do people think about Tentacruel vs Dragalge? Which is better? I almost never see either-in fact I don't think I've ever battled a Dragalge or seen it on someone's team on PS-even though Dragalge sees slightly more usage than Tentacruel.

Tents has marginally better bulk, 80/65/120 to Dragalge's 65/90/123, and much more speed, as well as some nice moves like Acid Spray, Mirror Coat, Magic Coat, Accupressure, and Knock Off Dragalge doesn't get. It also has some form of recovery in Giga Drain. Tents a,so has a better defensive typing.

Dragalge of the other hand has a much better ability, granting it way more power than Tenta. That's kind of the only thing it has over Tenta though. It can boost its defense with Acid Armor, but agenda can do the same with Barrier. Haze is an odd move in Battle Spot, and they both get it anyways.

So with all that I mind is Tenta better than Dragalge? Granted I like them both. I don't think you can argue they fulfill different roles, and thus can't be compared, since they have similar typing a and movepool so, and you'd never see them on the same team due to their shared weaknesses.

 

[Psynergy]

I would actually say that Tentacruel and Dragalge do actually fill pretty different roles, Dragalge excels at nuking stuff thanks to Adaptability while Tentacruel seems to primarily be a fast support/disruptive Pokemon. To put it in perspective, Adaptability Dragalge hits harder than Latios despite base 97 Special Attack, which is why so many of them would use Choice Specs. Tentacruel takes advantage of its better Speed to try and scare stuff with Acid Spray drops and fish for Scald burns on switch-ins. They have their own unique advantages and disadvantages, I don't think you'd find them on the same type of team. At any rate I can't really see myself wondering "would Dragalge be a better fit here than Tentacruel" or vice versa.

 

[Omastar68]

Hmm...yea I guess. Dragalge does not very hard, but Specs can be trouble when there's something immune to either of its STABs-and Mawile and Klefki are immune to both. Every other move it'd use on an offensive set also has a fair few things that are either immune or may as well be since they take so little from Scald or T-Bolt.

Moves not boosted by Adaptability also are kinda weak. Not really weak if you're Modest with max SpA, but still plenty of stuff can wall Dragalge easy when it's locked in.

Are either of them even viable in Battle Spot though(specifically Singles-not much that isn't viable there is gonna be viable in doubles or something anyways?) If they're not it's obviously pointless to debate which is better-if in fact one can even be declared better. I this think they're about equal overall, though if I had to vote for one I'd say Dragalge. Tenta is quite weak offensively, and it's ability is largely useless.

 

[cant say]

I've seen Dragalge pop up a couple times in high-rated teams. Ok yeah, there are Fairies who are immune to Draco Meteor, and Steels who are immune to Sludge Wave, but there are a LOT of Pokemon that aren't and they take a shitload from those moves. I've mentioned to you before, Omastar, that it's ok for a Pokemon to not be able to beat everything single-handedly, that's what teammates are for. At least when something has such a hard counter like that you know exactly what to add to your team to help it out...

And yeah Tentacruel and Dragelge are so different it's not worth comparing them.

 

[Omastar68]

Yea, ok. Nothing's gonna handle every threat there is, just some things come a lot closer than others. I've never seen a Dragalge in Singles(can't see them being doubles or triples material. Maybe rotations?,) so I'm surprised it's been on some high rated teams.

Looking at the usage data, it seems like Sludge Wave is preferred over Sludge Bomb. I can kinda see that since the small power difference is being amplified, but what do you think? Dragon Pulse also sees way less use than Draco Meteor, and I'm not sure I agree with that.

Most Dragalge use Specs, which is understandable, but quite a few run an AV instead. What do people think about that? Dragalge has a very nice typing that, in conjunction with an AV, wpould allow it to wall most any special attacker, only fearing HP Ice from most stuff, which is kind of weak. Lack of recovery is offset by the fact that Cress is a great teammate for Dragalge, and can heal it with Lunar Dance. Still, it does nothing for Dragalge's problem with physical attackers(actually it exacerbates the problem by making Dragalge do much less damage,) so I'm not sure about it.

 

[ethan06]

Dragalge's Special Defense is already so fantastic that Assault Vest is kinda redundant, especially when compared to Specs where more damage is always better. Sludge Bomb could be used if you like to abuse the Poison chance but otherwise, yes, Adaptability emphasises the power difference in the same way that Sheer Force Nidoking does, so Sludge Wave is a slightly better option for its greater power. Draco Meteor is far better than Dragon Pulse because it's simply that much stronger on the first hit, to the point that two in succession hit harder than two Dragon Pulses even with the drop:

Hide

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 200-236 (114.2 - 134.8%)
-2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 100-118 (57.1 - 67.4%)

171.3 assuming two min rolls

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 132-156 (75.4 - 89.1%)

150.8 assuming two min rolls

Running both is redundant as anything that would want to try and Recover stall you (Porygon2, Chansey, Slowbro, Sableye, Quagsire I guess) either walls all of your moves or dies outright to one of them anyway, making it a moot point. Best to run more coverage instead imo, Draco/Sludge Wave/Scald/Focus Blast.

 

[cant say]

Yea, ok. Nothing's gonna handle every threat there is, just some things come a lot closer than others. I've never seen a Dragalge in Singles(can't see them being doubles or triples material. Maybe rotations?,) so I'm surprised it's been on some high rated teams.

Looking at the usage data, it seems like Sludge Wave is preferred over Sludge Bomb. I can kinda see that since the small power difference is being amplified, but what do you think? Dragon Pulse also sees way less use than Draco Meteor, and I'm not sure I agree with that.

Most Dragalge use Specs, which is understandable, but quite a few run an AV instead. What do people think about that? Dragalge has a very nice typing that, in conjunction with an AV, wpould allow it to wall most any special attacker, only fearing HP Ice from most stuff, which is kind of weak. Lack of recovery is offset by the fact that Cress is a great teammate for Dragalge, and can heal it with Lunar Dance. Still, it does nothing for Dragalge's problem with physical attackers(actually it exacerbates the problem by making Dragalge do much less damage,) so I'm not sure about it.

Two Draco Meteors against the same target is more powerful than two Dragon Pulses. And for a mon that just wants to nuke stuff in one hit anyway (what most Choice users aim to do) you always want the most powerful move.

 

[Omastar68]

Good to know, I want incorporate Dragalge into a team someday. On a separate note is CM Cress viable? I think it would be fun, and I'm thinking to pair it with a Scolipede, which can Baton Pass Iron Defense and its speed boosts-the two stats CM Cress cares about that she can't boost.

I don't think I'm gonna use CM Cress and Dragalge together, since the purpose of Cress with Dragalge is Lunar Dance, which doesn't make sense on a CM set. For moves I'm thinking CM/ Moonlight/ Shadow Ball/ Moonblast. Psychic/Psyshock would be nice but ghost/fairy coverage is pretty much flawless in terms of two type coverage, with Shadow Ball hitting Heatran decently hard after a few boosts-relevant since Tran is the only thing 4x resistant to Fairy. One big problem is Volcarona, since it can safely boost up on Cress that lack several boosts and keep itself healthy with Roost before trashing me with Bug Buzz, but it's not very common.

 

[freekhoorn]

Good to know, I want incorporate Dragalge into a team someday. On a separate note is CM Cress viable? I think it would be fun, and I'm thinking to pair it with a Scolipede, which can Baton Pass Iron Defense and its speed boosts-the two stats CM Cress cares about that she can't boost.

I don't think I'm gonna use CM Cress and Dragalge together, since the purpose of Cress with Dragalge is Lunar Dance, which doesn't make sense on a CM set. For moves I'm thinking CM/ Moonlight/ Shadow Ball/ Moonblast. Psychic/Psyshock would be nice but ghost/fairy coverage is pretty much flawless in terms of two type coverage, with Shadow Ball hitting Heatran decently hard after a few boosts-relevant since Tran is the only thing 4x resistant to Fairy. One big problem is Volcarona, since it can safely boost up on Cress that lack several boosts and keep itself healthy with Roost before trashing me with Bug Buzz, but it's not very common.

Its offenses are garbage so no. Can't you think of this yourself?

 

[Omastar68]

Its offenses are garbage so no. Can't you think of this yourself?

It was kind of a gimmick idea. I was hoping it could be a thing, but Ilol just stay away from it and not ask dumb stuff lol. A while ago I was calling with Cresselia after SpA boosts, for Charge Beam, and I think damage output at even +6 was fairly disappointing, but I'll check again.

Hide

+1 252+ SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 142-168 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 83-98 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Cresselia Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 134-158 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ SpA Cresselia Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 134-158 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Cresselia Shadow Ball vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 71-84 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO

+5 252+ SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 136-161 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

The calcs definitely prove CM doesn't work at all. Obviously I know Cress is not an offensive behemoth, but it's crazy that even with a lot of boosts she's weak. That last calc with Rotom-W really drives the point home. On the one hand, if I were to succeed in BPing her at least a single Iron Defense I could almost assuredly boost up safely on the foe and stay healthy with Moonlight, but on the other it really only takes one Mon with Toxic to end her "sweep."