Battle Spot Singles Simple Questions

ethan06

⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
This strategy, however, does see some use on other Ground-types such as Garchomp, Excadrill, and Landorus-T, that run Rock Tomb as a way to deter faster Ground resists such as Thundurus-T from switching in. Most of Rock Tomb's appeal is not only in its secondary effect but also in its relatively high accuracy compared to other Rock moves. With Rock Tomb, none of these Ground-types have a compelling reason to run Bulldoze when they have access to the more powerful Earthquake. The only place you'd commonly see Bulldoze is on offensive Ferrothorn sets that use it to surprise Heatran switch-ins, but that's only because it's the best Ground-type coverage Ferrothorn gets.
 
Honestly, you just lose an absurd amount of power by not running Sheer Force. If you're going to predict a switch-in and Bulldoze, you're probably better off running Sheer Force with Sub and then Sub on the expected switch and use a Sheer Force boosted attack to kill the switch.
Yeah, that's certain. However, does being able to outspeed the opponent on the next turn for a 2HKO can make up for the power loss? That kinda makes it work like a scarfed set without getting locked on an attack, isn't it? Let's take the case I switch Nidoking on a resisted attack. The opponent definitely doesn't want to get hit by a ground or poison moves, so they switch out to send something to threaten Nidoking. On, the switch-in, Nidoking reduces its speed while doing some chip damage. On the next turn, you outspeed the threat and might score a KO with the right coverage move.

This strategy, however, does see some use on other Ground-types such as Garchomp, Excadrill, and Landorus-T, that run Rock Tomb as a way to deter faster Ground resists such as Thundurus-T from switching in. Most of Rock Tomb's appeal is not only in its secondary effect but also in its relatively high accuracy compared to other Rock moves. With Rock Tomb, none of these Ground-types have a compelling reason to run Bulldoze when they have access to the more powerful Earthquake. The only place you'd commonly see Bulldoze is on offensive Ferrothorn sets that use it to surprise Heatran switch-ins, but that's only because it's the best Ground-type coverage Ferrothorn gets.
Oh, wait! Nidoking can also learn rock tomb. I completely missed that. First, I thought of running both bulldoze for its effect and earthquake for its power. Rock tomb is even better as it also hit flying types.

So now, let me me change my question. What about running Rock tomb and earthquake for that strategy around reducing the opponent's speed?
 

cant say

grumpy and stubborn
is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
Battle Spot Leader
Yeah, that's certain. However, does being able to outspeed the opponent on the next turn for a 2HKO can make up for the power loss? That kinda makes it work like a scarfed set without getting locked on an attack, isn't it? Let's take the case I switch Nidoking on a resisted attack. The opponent definitely doesn't want to get hit by a ground or poison moves, so they switch out to send something to threaten Nidoking. On, the switch-in, Nidoking reduces its speed while doing some chip damage. On the next turn, you outspeed the threat and might score a KO with the right coverage move.


Oh, wait! Nidoking can also learn rock tomb. I completely missed that. First, I thought of running both bulldoze for its effect and earthquake for its power. Rock tomb is even better as it also hit flying types.

So now, let me me change my question. What about running Rock tomb and earthquake for that strategy around reducing the opponent's speed?
We know the theory behind rock tomb (and bulldoze, I guess), which is why it's so popular in the metagame. We're saying that Nidoking is not a good user of it. In fact, I'd argue that Nidoking is flat out unviable and totally outclassed. If you're using it, it's for "fun"
 
Yeah, that's certain. However, does being able to outspeed the opponent on the next turn for a 2HKO can make up for the power loss? That kinda makes it work like a scarfed set without getting locked on an attack, isn't it? Let's take the case I switch Nidoking on a resisted attack. The opponent definitely doesn't want to get hit by a ground or poison moves, so they switch out to send something to threaten Nidoking. On, the switch-in, Nidoking reduces its speed while doing some chip damage. On the next turn, you outspeed the threat and might score a KO with the right coverage move.


Oh, wait! Nidoking can also learn rock tomb. I completely missed that. First, I thought of running both bulldoze for its effect and earthquake for its power. Rock tomb is even better as it also hit flying types.

So now, let me me change my question. What about running Rock tomb and earthquake for that strategy around reducing the opponent's speed?
Chemcoop said itt right. It makes no sense. Think about it from the perspective of common plays.

Scenario#1
You rock tomb a scarf-timid-tapu lele on the switch. It still outspeeds and ko's you or if they aren't scarfed or are running modest, they can make a double switch to a steal type and now you're going to have to predict if you want to rock tomb again or allow a free swith. If you set-up a sub. You have extra protection and can throw out sheer force boosted attacks to make dents in the other team. The only way you lose the sub is at the expense of another pokemon.

Scenario#2
You rock tomb a pokemon that doesn't want to stay in, say zapdos. On the ice beam, they switch to metagorss. If you had set-up a sub, it saves you the improbable and highly risky prediction of earth powering on a zapdos and getting a hit on the metagross.

Sheer force power is too good to lose out on and if you want the same net effect, just use substitute. It's way better than rock tomb and granted you lose 25% of your HP but it's better than being outplayed on rock tomb prediction shenanigans.

The only pokemon who use rock tomb is to make that play for super effective damage. The -speed is just a plus. Same will bulldoze.
 
We know the theory behind rock tomb (and bulldoze, I guess), which is why it's so popular in the metagame. We're saying that Nidoking is not a good user of it. In fact, I'd argue that Nidoking is flat out unviable and totally outclassed. If you're using it, it's for "fun"
Yeah, there are definitely better pokémons than Nidoking. It's only because he's a poke I loved to use back in the days and I wanted to give it a try now.

Chemcoop said itt right. It makes no sense. Think about it from the perspective of common plays.

Scenario#1
You rock tomb a scarf-timid-tapu lele on the switch. It still outspeeds and ko's you or if they aren't scarfed or are running modest, they can make a double switch to a steal type and now you're going to have to predict if you want to rock tomb again or allow a free swith. If you set-up a sub. You have extra protection and can throw out sheer force boosted attacks to make dents in the other team. The only way you lose the sub is at the expense of another pokemon.

Scenario#2
You rock tomb a pokemon that doesn't want to stay in, say zapdos. On the ice beam, they switch to metagorss. If you had set-up a sub, it saves you the improbable and highly risky prediction of earth powering on a zapdos and getting a hit on the metagross.

Sheer force power is too good to lose out on and if you want the same net effect, just use substitute. It's way better than rock tomb and granted you lose 25% of your HP but it's better than being outplayed on rock tomb prediction shenanigans.

The only pokemon who use rock tomb is to make that play for super effective damage. The -speed is just a plus. Same will bulldoze.
Yeah, I see your point guys. I saw the use of Rock tomb as a "thunder wave doing damage" since it cripple speed. Even if the speed loss is temporary, it could force swithes. I mean, if you send that Nidoking and the opponent switches pokes on the next turn, they'll send their best answer (why would they send their second best option). Then, as you cripple its speed, the opponent has to decide to being outsped or switching again for a lesser threat to Nidoking. Instead of having to deal with their best answer, you have to deal with a lesser threat. That's how I saw that Rock tomb strategy. But yeah, I guess it's not really worth using it
 

Hulavuta

rip kurt cocain
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Battle Spot Leader
Imboto honestly, if you're dead set on using Nidoking I think Special Choice Scarf would be the best way to go. Still not that great, but with Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Earth Power / Sludge Wave it can kill things like Garchomp, Tapu Koko and non-scarf Tapu Lele, Ferrothorn, Primarina, Gengar, Thundurus, Celesteela, Heatran, Lucario, etc. Of course since it's Scarfed, it really cuts into your momentum and you have to predict, as Earth Power and Sludge Wave have those annoying immunities. But I'd say it can be about as viable as Xurkitree, if not more because of the stronger attacks and better coverage.
 
I wouldn't say that I absolutely want to use it. It's more that I was thinking of using it and that I wanted to have some feedback on a different set that I came up with.

So thanks for your advices guys :)
 
I'm hoping this is the right spot to ask this. I've been trying to use my Heatran and Zapdos in the ratings battles but for some reason mine are banned. I'm seeing them used by my opponents on occasion so I know some variants are clearly usable. But any search I do turns up empty on what the specifics are. Does anyone know what the requirements are to use those semi legends in the ratings battles?
 
I'm hoping this is the right spot to ask this. I've been trying to use my Heatran and Zapdos in the ratings battles but for some reason mine are banned. I'm seeing them used by my opponents on occasion so I know some variants are clearly usable. But any search I do turns up empty on what the specifics are. Does anyone know what the requirements are to use those semi legends in the ratings battles?
First and foremost you should check if they're from gen 6 or 7 ( they should have a black clover or blue pentagon in their summary ). Stuff from gen 5 and back aren't allowed in rated battles.
 
Last edited:

cant say

grumpy and stubborn
is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
Battle Spot Leader
Can someone tell me how to link team preview pictures? It looks like they might be taken from the PokemonGL website, what's the formatting?
log into the PGL > profile > online competitions > competition entry history > battle box

you need to take a screenshot of the battle box because it isn't an image, so use something like Lightshot, or just press PrntScrn or whatever it is on your keyboard and paste that into Paint.

You can upload the image directly to smogon using the "Upload a File" button, or host it on something like Imgur and put the URL between [hide][/hide] tags
 

Hulavuta

rip kurt cocain
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Battle Spot Leader
What are the best dual screeners in the game? (preferably not psychic-type ones, as I am trying to support a psychic-type)
Tapu Koko and Raikou are somewhat common ones, as well as Serperior. Alolan Ninetales gets Aurora Veil too, which works like both in one turn. 4 other people are viewing this thread right now so I'm sure you'll get more answers.


EDIT: f u guys
 
Is there a reason to use Sparkling Aria over other water moves? I know the z move is stronger than z move with other 90 bp moves, but the base move in particular doesnt seem worth it, cause it the same bp as surf, they both hit adjacent foes and allies, but sparkling aria heals burns which usually means healing your opponent. Scald has the benifit of burning the foe, and hydro pump is stronger.

TL:DR Other than the z move, is there any reason to use the move over other moves?
 
Is there a reason to use Sparkling Aria over other water moves? I know the z move is stronger than z move with other 90 bp moves, but the base move in particular doesnt seem worth it, cause it the same bp as surf, they both hit adjacent foes and allies, but sparkling aria heals burns which usually means healing your opponent. Scald has the benifit of burning the foe, and hydro pump is stronger.

TL:DR Other than the z move, is there any reason to use the move over other moves?
Sparkling Aria provides a nice option that's slightly stronger than Scald and has better accuracy than Hydro Pump, but its biggest selling point (besides being a strong Z-move) is that it can also hit through substitutes, which can be pretty helpful at times.
 
So I ran this Salemence EV spread on Battle Tree, but I'm wondering if I should just go 252 Attack and 252 Speed. I like how this one is a bit bulky, but it doesn't hit as hard as it can, obviously. Maybe I could go 252 ATK and redistribute the remaining EVs towards bulk? Thoughts?

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
 
So I ran this Salemence EV spread on Battle Tree, but I'm wondering if I should just go 252 Attack and 252 Speed. I like how this one is a bit bulky, but it doesn't hit as hard as it can, obviously. Maybe I could go 252 ATK and redistribute the remaining EVs towards bulk? Thoughts?

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
It really depends on team, opponent, ladder. Bulky salamence was pretty common last season for some reasons, like CharY and Blaziken. I do like it but not using DD + 2 moves. I often use a Sub + Toxic with HP and SpD investment. I would suggest you to try both sets and see which does fit better on your team and ladder.
 

Psynergy

Escape Route
is a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
BSS Tour Champion
What set does SD Aegislash run? Is SD+KS+Shadow Claw+Sacred Sword OK, even though it sacrifices priority?
Swords Dance usually looks something like this:

Aegislash @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head / Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance

The idea with SD is that you want to set up as much as possible before attacking since Aegislash is really bulky. The extra coverage and especially priority are too important to give up in most situations so King's Shield is typically dropped, since you shouldn't need to switch back into Shield Forme. Aegislash will either sweep on its own or break down the team enough for it to not need that extra security.
 
It really depends on team, opponent, ladder. Bulky salamence was pretty common last season for some reasons, like CharY and Blaziken. I do like it but not using DD + 2 moves. I often use a Sub + Toxic with HP and SpD investment. I would suggest you to try both sets and see which does fit better on your team and ladder.
Thanks. I'll rework the EVs and moveset and see how it works. My team is in flux atm. Any suggestions for teammates of a sub+toxic Mence?
 
Thanks. I'll rework the EVs and moveset and see how it works. My team is in flux atm. Any suggestions for teammates of a sub+toxic Mence?
Its really versatile mon. It can fit almost any team. Salamence job's is to come in front of blaziken and other physical, subs and toxic predicting a switch of defensive mon like porygon2. Steel-types are a problem to it, so try adding fire types. Im usinng a flame charge heatran. You can try volcarona or blaziken too. Try looking at "sample teams" section for some ideas too :)
 
Thanks. I'll rework the EVs and moveset and see how it works. My team is in flux atm. Any suggestions for teammates of a sub+toxic Mence?
Z Curse Mimikyu or Jellicent are both nice partners for Toxic Mega Mence. You'll also need something to deal with steel-types such as ferrothorn. Blaziken or a secondary fire-type mega (CharY/X) might work.

Even p2 is a nice teammate for it
 
Last edited: