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Gen 6 Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by NOVED, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Flamedood

    Flamedood

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    I'm saying this to try and be constructive and not at all offend you personally- the issue is with the replay you chose, armaldo is not shown to do anything at all that any other rock types can't do (and even do better)- the damage from aqua jet was completely negligible and even despite getting lucky with two 5 hit rockblasts, it was still unable to do anything to Venasaur. On top of this it took an absurd about of damage from the T-Flame as it doesn't even resist it's stabs. Literally any other rock type would have given you momentum and mons like tyranitar or rhyperior have greater bulk, an immunity to electric (for rhyperior), better resistances and a greater attack stat. Tankchomp or scarf chomp are other mons that can do armaldos job better. Non stab aqua jet is nothing to get excited over, and heck, even mons like kabutops and relicanth can do this job better and they're extremely niche.
    The point of these viability rankings is to clearly display the utility of a Mon in the current metagame, and if it is outclassed in every roll it possess, it shouldn't be used and does not deserve a rank. The only niche I can see that armaldo has is perhaps a ludicolo check with X scissor on rain teams? Even then it takes an absolute beating from hydro pump. I really do not think it deserves to be ranked
    cant say and Jibaku like this.
  2. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    I've been playing on Showdown, I have trained an Armaldo(two actually,) but I'm still working on this team. Up until recently, I thought that was just a formality, since I'd been doing good in most battles up until that point, but now I realize my team needs lots of work if I want to start doing better. The reason I though Armaldo was good is because it usually would revenge something(non-Wisp Gengar, Thundurus, or something like Talonflame,) and then do some damage to whatever comes in next(sometimes that would be another KO, sometimes just the minuscule damage from an Aqua Jet.)

    Flamedood, I definitely agree that there are other Pokemon that can do the same stuff as Armaldo, and probably better. I've actually used a Relicanth in x and y a while ago, and it typically did quite good-at least as much as Armaldo, and without eating up a valuable item slot. I only posted that replay because NOVED asked, and while there were battles where Armaldo did better than in that one, it still probably wasn't good enough. I must've just gotten lucky all those times, since it definitely must've surprised the opponent to see Armaldo.
  3. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    Armaldo is one of those Pokemon that's just begging for a mega evolution. I don't have a replay from Omega Ruby because some of the Pokemon I want to use I need to trade for, and I didn't want to train the other ones until I was sure on what I want my team to be, and I'm still not. I could use my Brave Armaldo for the Trick Room team I made, but I don't see that working out anymore. I haven't tried a rain team, Armaldo would probably do better on one of those, though there are still better things like Hurricane Volcarona.
  4. 6tennis

    6tennis

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    What do you guys think of Slurpuff? I've been testing it out, and it works like a charm. It's mostly outclassed by Azumarill, packing a secondary STAB, a priority move, and access to Huge Power and better bulk, but Slurpuff does have a few niches over Azumarill. For one, it has a great ability in Unburden, increasing its Speed once it's lost its Sitrus Berry. It also has access to Drain Punch, further increasing its longevity. It also has less trouble getting past the bulky Water- and Grass- types that usually decimate Azumarill, such as Serperior and Rotom-Wash. However, it doesn't have much in the ways of coverage, and is almost completely walled by common Poison-types, such as Gengar. In addition, while it does gain Speed after using its Sitrus Berry, it is still outpaced by common revenge killers. Notable examples include Garchomp, Blaziken, and Gengar. Despite all this, Slurpuff still functions as one of the better Belly Drum users out there - not the best, but not the worst either. Maybe B?
  5. ethan06

    ethan06 ⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
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    Slurpuff is pretty powerful as a cleaner but also very niche. Fairy-type sweepers are hard to come by, especially if your Mega slot is already occupied but it doesn't reliably beat any of the top 12 besides Rotom-W and maaaaybe Kangaskhan, Lando-T and Suicune: Scarf Garchomp, +1 Salamence and +2 Mega Blaziken all outspeed it, Mega Gengar, Aegislash and Talonflame resist its coverage, Thundurus paralyses it, you have to worry about a potential Sash on Mamoswine, or falling into Ice Shard KO range... It's cool and it deals with a lot of things, but more often than not you'll see something on team preview that stops it cold. Hawlucha has the same issue :( I vote C+
  6. freekhoorn

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    The description of C is that the pokemon has as many positives as flaws but i think slurpuff is a bit less than that because of its typing and that it can't beat most of the imporant threats and that the negatives shine a little bit more so i would say C-.

    I think milotic is a really underestimated threat and has a lot of things that other bulky water types have not like its ability that gives it an immediate special attack boost against intimidate users who are used pretty often like landorus, salamence, mega mawile and for an extent mega manectric. It also has mirror coat that can do a lot of damage to pokemon that would otherwise kill it with a 2hko like serperior and other special attacking pokemon and a third thing is that it has very reliable recovery with recover unlike vaporeon and suicune. Im not sure where to put it because not a lot of people use it but certainly higher than C in my opinion.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
    Omastar68 likes this.
  7. Psynergy

    Psynergy
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    I don't know, as far as Belly Drum is concerned, Slurpuff faces stiff competition with Azumarill. Azumarill also boasts a much better typing and coverage and can afford to run a set other than Belly Drum. The only reason I see to use this above Azumarill would be Unburden letting it sweep without relying a 40 BP Aqua Jet, but Aqua Jet cleans very well so I don't think that's a problem. Can't really see it anywhere above C-, if it's even ranked at all.

    Milotic is an interesting one, but I haven't really seen it used often in Singles. Competitive is super neat and really scares Landorus-T and Salamence who are both strong threats, but I feel it's a bit more restricted in usefulness as opposed to what it offers in BSD. It has to compete more with Suicune who also scares those two and can reliably set up instead of depending on stat drops, and less physical defense hurts Milotic. Recover is cool but the competition with bulky waters like Suicune and Slowbro is rough. Can't say I can offer a place to rank something I haven't used though but it doesn't sound particularly prominent.
  8. Omastar68

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    Slurpuff can't really run a Calm Mind set, and even 252 +SpA LO Slurpuff only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO 4/0 Mega Gengar. That leaves Belly Drum, but Slurpuff doesn't have the best physical movepool. Even so, it's pretty good. It has trouble with paralysis, especially from Pranksters since they don't need to sponge an attack first. The best set is probably an Adamant 52 HP/ 252 Atk/ 44 Def/ 4 SpD/ 156 Spe Slurpuff with Play Rough/ Thief/ Drain Punch/ Belly Drum and a Sitrus Berry. The EVs are all you need to outspeed Jolly base 150s after Unburden activates, and the rest is meant to lower damage from physical attacks, surviving a 252+Atk Choice Band Brave Bird from Talonflame, 252 Atk Banded Chomp's Earthquake, and having only a 6.3% chance to be OHKOd by 252+Atk Mega Blaziken's Flare Blitz, at full health. The other 4 EVs go into SpD because they won't make any difference going somewhere else. More physical bulk can be used, but I'm not sure you'll survive many strong attacks after using Belly Drum. I'd put Slurpuff at a C+ or maybe a B-, since it should have some support, such as Memento or Screens support, but is still pretty good.

    Milotic isn't taking BSS by storm, but I'm pretty sure it's at least as good as Vaporeon. It has better abilities, more speed, and a slightly better movepool than Vaporeon. Recover is a little better than Wish unless your team appreciates Wsh support, and Mirror Coat is really good. It's still kind of meh compared to premier bulky waters like Slowbro, but should be ranked so long as Vaporeon is.

    Also, this is really weird, but I want to nominate Mismagius for a D+ rank. She is definitely an odd Poke, and largely if not completely eclipsed by Gengar, but her movepool and special bulk are both better than Gengar's, and her physical bulk, while atrocious, is no worse than Gengar's. Mystical Fire is a great move with horrible distribution, but Mismagius gets it. She also has a lot of other interesting moves, like Heal Bell and Memento, as well as the all-important Will-o-Wisp, letting her cripple lots of stuff she out speeds like Garchomp and Mega Kangaskhan(the latter of which may be completely unable to hurt Mismagius. Of course, Gengar can do that, too, but keep in mind I'm not pushing for Mismagius to be S rank.) She can also run a pretty good Trick set with Specs or a Scarf. Lastly, she has surprise value, unlike Gengar(sets with sub or WoW can be sort of surprising, but they don't have the same effect as Mismagius.)

    P.S. What do people think about Eviolite Misdreavus? Does it outclass Mismagius with its better bulk? I should also mention I have a 31/0/31/31/31/31 Timid Misdreavus, which is completely perfect, part of why I'm wondering about Mismagius in the first place.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2015
  9. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

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    I was comparing our rankings with the top 12 of global link and saw something interesting: all the top 12 pokemon belong in S or A+ except for mamoswine, who is ranked A- here. Do we underestimate it or is mamoswine an overhyped pokemon in battlespot? I think we underestimate it, ground-ice type is the best offensive coverage, someone made a calculation against all types and ground/ice had the most points, google it.


    I don't know about mismagius and misdreavus, i never played them and almost never faced them, but eviolite misdreavus was hard to take down i remember.
  10. a0161613

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    Mamoswine seems impressively versatile on paper . I've been given one that I can't wait to try. It has to be better than Diggersby who I thought was underwhelmed by.
  11. GateCreeper

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    Mamoswine definitely deserves to move up a bit, probably to A. Its offensive coverage is fantastic like freekhoorn said, managing to hit all of the top 12 with effectiveness. It can even add to its coverage with moves like Knock Off, Rock Tomb, Superpower, etc. All those attacks come from a mon with base 130 Atk, so they'll hurt if they hit super effectively. It's extremely versatile as well, with ability to run items like Sash to set up rocks, Scarf to revenge kill, LO for more power, AV to take some special hits, Rocky Helmet/Lefties for physically defensive variants, or even Band if you want to break things. All sets work effectively and it can quite difficult to guess what variant it is at team preview. It synergies with a lot of teams as well. Most teams will welcome the Ice/Ground coverage that Mamo offers. Despite its SpD and Def, Mamo can be surprising bulky when invested, which is why AV and Physically Defensive Mamo have seen a lot more usage as of late. Thick Fat sort of helps with its bulk too, and it's a fantastic ability for Mamoswine. I can't think of a good reason why this mon shouldn't be A.

    Don't have much to say on Misdreavus/Mismagius, I've only seen one Mismagius during my whole lifetime while playing on cart and all it did was try to be an inferior M-Gengar by WoWing me and try to send me into the shadow realm spam Dbond.
    AaronLabaron27 and freekhoorn like this.
  12. a0161613

    a0161613

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    So I played a few games with Tornadus I yesterday. That puts in some work.

    Jolly nature, and basic 252/252 spread with eject button & Taunt, tailwind, Bulk Up & acrobatics. It's a fun set that almost guaranteed one turn of set up plus enough to switch out & come back again. Powered up Acrobatics came in clutch against the fighting types that show up. I think with some tweaking this set could become popular.

    I'd nom it for C+, the same as therian. Until I tweak it & play with it more.
  13. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    This is pretty much what I was afraid of-it's an inferior Gengar, stay away from it. Regular Gengar has 60/60/75 bulk and mega is 60/80/95. As you can see, regular Gengar is quite a bit less bulky, and Mega trades a little SpD for a little Def(compared to Mismagius), but also eats up your mega slot. Gengar also doesn't have access to Memento, Magic Coat, Thunder Wace, or Calm Mind, though I'm not sure Mismagius has much reason to use Clam Mind with 60/60 defenses. Maybe with WoW, but IDK. I don't think Mismagius can really claim to outclass Gengar, though bulky variants of Mega Gengar(which seem more common than offensive ones) seem to me like they face some competition from Mismagius, since they eat up your mega slot while not having that much bulk, even invested, and don't have any good status category moves that Mismagius doesn't. Gengar has quite a bit more SpA than Mismagius, but no way to boost it, while Mismagius has three different ways to boost SpA(Charge Beam, Calm Mind, and Nastly Plot.) Its faster, too, but not by much unless its mega. All in all, I don't think Gengar/Mega Gengar are so much better than Mismagius that they should be in the upper ranks while Mismagius doesn't even get ranked. She should at least be D+/C-, since she's definitely better than Drifblim.
  14. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    Drifblim is completely different to Mismagius and at least has a niche to abuse in Minimize + Unburden + Baton Pass which is why it's ranked where it is. Mismagius is utter crap and fails to seperate itself from any other Ghost-types and doesn't deserve a rank imo. Will-O-Wisp + Calm Mind is done by Sableye who also has Recover and Prankster, and Nasty Plot is wasted on the fact that it doesn't have a good secondary attacking option like Focus Blast.

    I also think it's wildly unfair for you to question (Mega) Gengar's placement and suggest that Mismagius shouldn't be ranked because they're "similar"... Gengar has been the 2nd-3rd most used Pokemon literally the entire sixth generation and (even though this is entirely unrelated to Battle Spot) it was one of the first Megas banned from OU. If it isn't clear why they're completely different then (to be blunt) you need to play more...
  15. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    Well, at least you're honest. A lot of Mismagius' options, while really good on some things, are questionable with a plain typing and fairly mediocre bulk, power, and speed. Mismagius' coverage is really good, but an all out attacking set is outclassed by Gengar. She has really bad physical bulk and, since there are more physical or mixed attackers than special attackers out there, can't really afford to run T-Wave in lieu of WoW. No secondary STAB hurts, since base 105 SpA is not enough when you're essentially forced to run a Timid nature. Heal Bell isn't very useful in BSS, and would be better on a bulkier Poke anyways. In a hypothetical universe where a Pokemon could have more than four moves(say ten), Mismagius would indeed be a force to be reckoned with, but she's limited to four moves, Mismagius can't make use of her more niche options like Power Gem and Magic Coat, and instead has to run WoW, Destiny Bond, and a STAB move, making her resemblance to Gengar painfully obvious. Speaking of Gengar, I shouldn't be so dismissive of it. It is a pretty good Poke-I don't much care for it, but I know that it's threatening. Mismagius can run most any viable set Gengar can(and a few others to boot), but Mega Gengar is worlds better at stuff like SubPerish thanks to Shadow Tag, and regular Gengar's higher SAtk and Spe make it much better for a LO attacker or something like that, even with Mismagius' coverage(Gengar's coverage is pretty good, too.) As you may have read above, I got a perfect Misdreavus. That's not why I'm interested in using it/trying to defend its viability-obviously I was breeding for Misdreavuses in the first place. Mystical Fire definitely caught my attention. A fire type atk that always lowers the foe's SpA in conjunction with Mismagius' good special bulk(especially for a ghost type-those guys usually don't have much bulk. Though i guess that makes sense if they're supposed to be dead) definitely mkes it seem like Mismagius has a niche. Of course, even here Gengar gives Mismagius competition. Thanks to its significantly higher SpA, Gengar's HP Fire will do more than Maggie's Mystical Fire, despite the latter's higher base power. Pokemon notorious for hating fire moves, like Ferro and Scizor, don't mind the SpA drop at all, either, which is a problem. I'm going to try and make a decent set for Mismagius that isn't just a watered down Gengar. If that doesn't pan out, I'll look into Misdreavus, though I have less hope for that one because I competes for an item slot with Porygon2.
  16. NOVED

    NOVED
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    The only useful things mismagius has over gengar(imo) is nasty plot and thunder wave. But its still an incredibly underwhelming pokemon i think. Its SpA is honestly just meh, its kind of fast but not really comparing it to the much better gengar, its phys def is awful and spdef isnt that fantastic either considering the low HP. I really dont think its random coverage options like power gem and mystical fire are actually gonna be so useful that it warrants running mismagius. I think a double status set with twave, wisp and hex may be cool but it probably isnt that great. Nasty Plot might also be okay, you have power gem and sash as a cool coverage option for talonflame, but its gonna be hard to set up and theres plenty of pokemon over 105 speed that can revengekill. I think mismagius is just too easy to take out and isnt going to be doing enough damage beforehand. I would literally never advise anyone to consider it over gengar.
    tko likes this.
  17. Omastar68

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    Yeah...so Mismagius looked better on paper. I though of a very odd set that might be okay, and is at the very least something Gengar can't do.

    Mismagius@???(can't think of anything good for it)
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 92 HP/ 180 Def/ 236 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Icy Wind
    -Memento
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Mystical Fire/Power Gem

    EVs reduce the chance for 252 Atk Chomp's Outrage to KO as much as possible, though there's still a 50% chance. 252 +Atk LO Talon isn't bound to OHKO with Brave Bird, and Sharp Beak does it less often than not, though CB will always do you in. Power Gem could the take it out, and also does a number on Volcarona and Zard Y, both of which are outsped if they lack a boost. The speed EVs outspeed max speed chomp, which is important to burn it(you can also use it the first turn on a Scarfed Chomp, then outspeed and KO the next turn.) Memento is the main thing this set has over Gengar, paving the way for a set up sweeper. This clearly has problems, though-thanks to Mismagius' HP, it can't really capatilize on its nice base 105 SpD, and there aren't enough EVs left after the speed to even begin to salvage that terrible physical bulk. I think I give up on Mismagius. She seemed like a really good Poke with her expansive movepool, and I'm sure a Trick and Choice Scarg set would be good if Gengar couldn't do it better, but apparently I was mistaken. I really doubt Misdreavus is better, I'm not even gonna check her. She can't outspeed Chomp to burn it, and is inferior to Porygon2 in both setting up and abusing Trick Room.
  18. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    In the future, only nominate things that you have actually used and are confident about. If you haven't used a Pokemon yet and are just curious as to how it will perform, then post in the 3v3 discussion thread or simple questions thread, OR come chat on Pokemon Showdown...
    dsm77773, freekhoorn and GateCreeper like this.
  19. Omastar68

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    Alright, sorry. Mismagius definitely roped me in with Mystical Fire(this more than anything else TBH,) but I should've tested her first.

    In an effort to actually say something constructive, why isn't Cofagrigus ranked? It has a good movepool, nice defense defenses and SpA, and it's good stter of Trick Room and user of Calm Mind. I had quite a bit of luck with one in Pokémon X(which I used in Battle Spot.) The set was really weird, since I was new to competitive battling-Hex, WoW, Energy Ball, and Haze, with full HP ans Def, holding a Kasib Berry since Lefties was taken and Gengar was a problem. I can also see it running an adaptation of the set I used on my Spiritomb-WoW/Infestation/Protect/Curse, holding Leties. Cofagrigus can learn all those moves, but it would be better off being physically bulky(my Spiritomb was full HP and SpD, though that didn't make a difference vs special fairies.) I don't think the Meta's changed so much Coffie's no longer relevant-it still wrecks Chomp, has gained some use with the advent and popularity of mega Kanga, deals with Talon and robs its flying STAB of priority, and can take special attackers after some CM boosts. Mega Gengar is a problem for it, but Gengar was a problem even before it got a mega evo. Cutsap Berry with D-Bond, Memento, and Trick with Choice Specs also deserve a mention.
  20. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

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    Yeah cofagrigus could be an interesting mon with this set [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Psychic / Hex
    - Trick Room / Substitute / Disable

    This was my counter for mega lopunny at the victim of the week but i only faced it one time and never used it in real play so for that fact I can not rank it. Maybe anyone else did use cofagrigus.
    Jibaku and Omastar68 like this.
  21. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    OK, so I've been thinking Machamp should be on here for a while, but I didn't want to say anything about it for some reason. However, I've been using it for some time and it's done well. A 100 BP STAB that always hits and confuses the opponent is just amazing, and is probably a must for Machamp to not be outclassed by Conk w/ its higher physical bulk, better atk, roughly identical special bulk, and same type. Machamp's higher speed does count for something, though, outspeeding base 50s unless they invest quite a bit(not that much, but more than 4, and base 50s generally don't run that much speed.) Machamp is best w/ an AV, which also makes it compete w/ Conk and prevents it from running Encore. Their best moves are also fairly similar(Knock Off, Ice Punch, and a priority move. Bullet Punch has worse coverage than Mach Punch, but it hits some fairies like Clef decently hard, and is overall not much better or worse, really.) Really, No Guard is the only thing that sets Machamp apart from Conk, however, it does a pretty good job of setting it apart. Besides the extremely obvious synergy w/ Dynamichpunch, No Guard also punishes evasion boosting Pokes, which can be a nuisance. Unfortunately, most of Champ's moves have perfect or near perfect accuracy, so only Dynamichpunch really benefits from it normally. No Guard also lets the opponent always hit you w/ OHKO moves, which sucks. I think I'd rate Machmap at about a C+, since it's pretty good but faces competition from Conkeldurr and requires paralysis support to be at its best(then you can do parafusion, and outspeed everything.)
  22. Anirav

    Anirav

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    Mamoswine to A

    Mamoswine is a versatile mon capable of running multiple items such as choice scarf if you need a revenge killer, focus sash for lead, assault vest for the extra bulk and even life orb for extra power. It also can counter many of the top threats in the metagame such as thundurus, garchomp, gengar, mence, gliscor, talonflame, and landorus-t. Choice scarf is great on mamoswine as with 204 speed and a jolly nature it outspeeds mega-lopunny and mega-manectric. Here are some damage calcs to show its effectiveness. This is all with a jolly nature.

    124 Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 188-224 (112.5 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    124 Atk Mamoswine Rock Tomb vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 168-200 (109 - 129.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    124 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 276-328 (128.3 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    -1 124 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 192-228 (117 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    124 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 200 HP / 0+ Def Mega Salamence: 196-232 (100.5 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    124 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 244 HP / 28+ Def Gliscor: 204-240 (112.7 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    I personally use a choice scarf mamoswine with the spread 180 HP/ 124 attack/ 204 speed and a jolly nature and it has helped me a lot.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
    6tennis likes this.
  23. ProjectTitan313

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    ScarfChamp is the same speed as Mienshao / Scyther / Manectric (105) and endlessly annoying; and in terms of competition, have you ever seen ScarfConk? ScarfChamp is a common set for Machamp in Singles (and doubles but irrelevent).

    Bullet Punch, no. Even when SE, no:
    100 * STAB / Resist = (100*1.5)/2 = 75
    40 * SE = (40*2) = 80

    Neglegible power difference, and no Confusion chance to 50/50 save Champ's ass. I guess if you really want to sacrifice coverage + a moveslot to pick off Sashmons.
    No Guard also means Stone Edge hits shit which is VERY useful for stuff like Char-Y instead of a coin toss on wether you hit or not, and Machamp can actually 2HKO something with Stone Edge (gasp). Has numerous negatives, yes, but for someone with -10 luck like me it's no loss. CB Guts Champ with CC hits like holy fucking shit and no one even hesitates to Burn it. So imo it can do 3 iffy sets, it's unique at two of them. C+ or so sounds fine.
  24. Omastar68

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    Never really thought about ScarfChamp. Scarf Rampardos is actually a little faster, but it's still frowned upon in any meta(pretty sure on this,) so I wouldn't have expected anything slower to be viable w/ a scarf. IDK what you mean about Bullet Punch. I run it w/ Dynamichpunch, Knock Off, and Ice Punch holding an AV, so I'm not choosing it over Dynamichpunch. It's a shame it's so weak, but I was just saying that, w/ a powerful fighting STAB already, it's not really any worse than Mach Punch(not that Champ gets that anyways, but since it's similar to Conk in a lot of ways I thought I'd mention it's priority move.) I did notice Stone Edge going through Champ's moves to find ones w/ relatively low accuracy, but I just don't see where you can fit it on a set. Machamp absolutely needs Dynamichpunch(CB CC w/ Guts sounds kinda good, but it seems like there's no real benefit over Conk w/ that set. I guess a little more power since Conk isn't going to use Hammer Arm/Superpower, but DP's healing makes up for the power loss), Knock Off is quite strong, has lots of utility, and provides good coverage w/ fighting, Ice Punch is great for hitting 4x weak Dragons and the like, and Bullet Punch seems like a good idea for priority. Champ is definitely a much better candidate for Stone Edge than Conk, I'll give it that. C+ may actually be a little low considering how good it is and the fact it can pull off a Scarf set and thus not be nearly as dependent(it's not really dependent on it, but it prefers para support) on paralysis support(though an Adamant nature w/ Tailwind might be good here,) but it's a good starting place.

    Also, how do people feel about elevating Togekiss from B- to B+? SG Air Slash is really nice w/(or even w/o) T-Wave, and Togekiss has plenty of other stuff it can do(TrickScarf, bulky Roost, Specs, and let's not forget Encore.) I've had great success w/ a set of Roost, Thunder Wave, Encore, and Air Slash w/ a Rocky Helmet and lots of HP and Def investment. Togekiss also doesn't really need team support, as it can be the one to providde it w/ T-Wave, Tailwind, Wish, Heal Bell, or Dual Screens. Not that all of those are good ideas, but you get the idea.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
    Seth_ likes this.
  25. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Those calcs are all super effective and even four times super effective apart from mega gengar which has no defenses so those calcs do not prove really much but aside from that i agree with him being A.
    a0161613 likes this.

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