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Gen 6 Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by NOVED, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Anirav

    Anirav

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    Yes I do agree with you that those calcs are all super effective and that doesn't prove much but they are all against the top threats in bss. If you think about it mamoswine's role isn't to sweep or be defensive, it is to take advantage of its strong ice and ground stab moves and defeat those top threats. Here are a list of Pokemon that mamoswine can take one on one and beat with a scarf or sash
    Garchomop, talonflame, landorus -t, thunderus-t, blaziken, manectric, Salamance, volcarona, gengar-m, gliscor, dragonite, metagross, raikou, bisharp, chandelure and entei. That is a pretty big list.
    freekhoorn likes this.
  2. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    Yeah I agree, it wouldn't be a great point of argument to use a whole bunch of super effective calcs in a Pokemon's favour to make it seem better than it is, but the reason Mamoswine IS so good in the first place is its offensive typing is fantastic and does actually hit all the top threat super effectively. It's not like he's saying [this psychic type] is so good coz it hits [irrelevant poison types] lol. Nailing Garchomp, Salamence, Landorus-T, Thundurus, Mega Gengar, Aegislash, and able to take on Blaziken, Talonflame and Kangakshan with some tweaking means he is a great anti-meta mon. Even better is that the calcs prove that he doesn't even need maximum investment to bop these guys either, so you an give him some bulk for almost nothing!

    I'm not for or against moving Mamo but I just wanted to say that all the calcs were relevant, not just random ones chosen in Mamo's favour...
    Omastar68 and Anirav like this.
  3. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    I'm not seeing any reason for Mamo to be A-. Just looking at usage stats, Mamo is used more than many of the Pokemon ranked higher than it(Zapdos, Zard x and Zard Y, Serperior, Mega Mawile, etc.) which speaks for itself. Mamo's movepol is really good, leting it hit lots of stuff for SE damage, and unlike a lot of Pokemon w/ good movepools that suffer from underwhelmong stats/abilities, Mamo is good on both fronts. Not to mention it seems silly to me to have it in the same rank as Tyranitar, which is just a big fat fighting weakness as far as I'm concerned.
  4. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

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    Yeah i surely agree the calcs are against relevant pokemon but i only thought they were not really necessary cause everyone knows that mamoswine could ohko those threats also without the calcs. I agree that mamoswine should be A+ because it has a significant good matchup against a lot of top-threats.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  5. Anirav

    Anirav

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    Yeah I see what you're saying but to nominate a certain pokemon, I need to have some evidence about its effectiveness. Basically, I need to backup the information with concrete evidence so that's why I posted the stats. I also wanted to show that mamoswine can OHKO them with only 124 evs investment in attack and that too with a jolly nature!
    freekhoorn and cant say like this.
  6. Seth_

    Seth_

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    Goodra for B.

    I'm really suprosed that this great mon is not even listed. In battle spot singles (at lest at PS) special wallbreakers like thundurus-t, Yzard, gengar and few others are very popular.

    And AV Goodra just 1v1 every single one of them. Even strong supereffective hits like ice beam from greninja or hyper voice sylveon are not enough to 2hko. Yzard in sun, with overheat can't do anything. Even HPice deals very little dmg.

    Another thing is her ability to absorb grass type attacks. Breloom can't brainlessly spore everything anymore and ferrothorn can't spam leech seeds.

    And this monster has even good coverage. Her special attack and attack may be not the best, but they are definitely enough to deal serious damage to many threats like mega manetric, ferrothorn, yzard, talonflame. Heck, if you made right prediction you may even destroy spec sylveon. Earthquake, sludge wave, thunderbolt, fire blast, dragon pulse or draco meteor. A lot ways to make some holes in opponent's team

    Realy solid mon, definitely worth trying.
    Anirav and Omastar68 like this.
  7. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

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    252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 108-128 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 60-72 (30 - 36%) -- 36.7% chance to 3HKO

    What do you mean a chance to destroy choice specs sylveon?

    You are right about non item boosted sylveon though, which is impressive.

    252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 72-86 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Those calcs are amazing, I only think a huge weakness for assaultvest goodra ( and normal goodra also cause it only has rest) is that it has no hp recovery possibility. Combined with very little offensive presence, look at this:

    0 SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 182-216 (99.4 - 118%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    Even a draco meteor can not guaranteed ko garchomp - i think its very easy to switch in a physical attacker on goodra and ditch from there. That does not ignore that goodra is a really good special wall though.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  8. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    Going Sludge Bomb on Goodra would make it much better vs. Sylveon, since you have a 30% to poison it which hurts Sylv a lot, and you can't 2HKO Sylv even w/ 252 SpA(252+ Sludge Wave has a 3.1% to 2HKO, which is negligible.)

    Goodra is still good in BSS, of course, so I'd put it at least a C, and I don't think B is too ambitious. I've seen Goodra on a fair few teams on PS, and it deals really well w/ special attackers(pretty much all of them that don't hit it SE w/ something with a lot of power. So not HP Ice Thundy.) The reason it shouldn't be A- or something is physical attacks tend to be a bigger threat in BSS, and 90/70 physical bulk is just not enough.
  9. GateCreeper

    GateCreeper

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    Goodra never runs max SpD. You don't really need to invest in SpD when your SpD is already insane with AV. As Omastar already pointed out Goodra still loses against Sylveon though with 252 SpA.

    Anyways, the only niche I see Goodra having is Sap Sipper. That's only if you really despise Sleep Powder/Spore. Goodra even fails to beat one of the prime users of Sleep Powder because of its lack of reliable recovery (M-Venu). I prefer Specs on it because it still has the bulk to take at least one special attack and hit back relatively hard. Hydreigon would just be an overall better choice at that point if you go for Specs though. All the special bulk it has isn't really worth mentioning when it gets worn down pretty fast due to having no recovery and not much of an offensive presence with AV. As mentioned before (again), its physical bulk is pretty crappy so that can easily be taken advantage of. If only this pseudo-legendary was blessed with a recovery move, more special attack, or even Dragon Dance...

    B is way too high for thing. C is where it should stick around.
    dsm77773, cant say and Omastar68 like this.
  10. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    Exploud for B-

    IDK how Exploud avoided getting ranked. I have to attribute that to an oversight, because after having used it I can say that it is amazing. Specs Boomburst does giant damage to most everything, even some bulky 2x resistant Pokes like Scizor. It also has great coverage in Ice Beam, Overheat, and Focus Blast. Its bulk is fairly disappointing, but w/ proper investment it can survive a lot of powerful attacks like 252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan's Double-Edge and 252 Atk CB Garchomp's Outrage. Speed is another issue, but even though base 68 isn't very good, it's a nice benchmark, outspeeding base 65s like Scizor that don't invest enough in spe. Paralysis, TR, or Tailwind support all take care of the spe issue as well. Lastly there's Exploud's ridiculously good ability, Scrappy. BB is an extremely good move, but it'd still be useless against ghost types w/o Scrappy. W/ it, though, Exploud can 1v1 Mega Gengar, and probably Mega Sableye as well if it doesn't have any SpD boosts.

    Here are some calcs:

    252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Exploud: 121-144 (64.3 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 154-183 (114 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 154-183 (92.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO


    Vs Gengar Exploud normally wins, though bulky variants have a chance to avoid the OHKO and 2HKO in return.

    252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 163-193 (86.7 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 68-81 (36.1 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 169-201 (91.8 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO


    The Exploud set I use, which is what I'm calciing w/, is only rarely KOd by CB Chomp's Outrage, w/ anything weaker having no chance. The 3rd calc is to show you are generally ok vs Chomp even if you're locked into BB and can't use Ice Beam. Exploud does have to watch out for Sash Chomp, however.

    252+ Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 172-204 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

    252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 109-129 (57.9 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Landorus-T Explosion vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 180-212 (95.7 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 178-210 (107.8 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Simple 252 Atk/252 Spe Scarf Landog. Exploud takes it to town every time unless it has one of two very niche moves, and neither are sure things vs Exploud.

    252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 159-189 (84.5 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 170-202 (93.9 - 111.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO


    Big momma's DE almost never KOs, while Focus Blast or BB will take her out after recoil. Secret Power variants are more threatening as they don't take recoil, may cause you paralysis, and are likely to have more bulk and/or power, meaning they can probably take a FB-if it even hits. Still not too shabby.

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 199-235 (125.1 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    244+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 130-154 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 199-235 (113.7 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 61-73 (32.4 - 38.8%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO


    Exploud beats any Talonflame if it hasn't taken much prior damage or is locked into an unfavorable attack. No variant, even NG fighting, can KO you from full health, while even bulky variants are KOd back. In fact, Exploud prefers bulky Talon as it's still KOd but does much less damage.

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 162-192 (95.2 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 153-181 (81.3 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Mega Salamence is also ruined lacking a DD. W/ recoil you don't even need Ice Beam for the KO.

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 118-139 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Cress isn't as relevant as most of the other things, but 2HKOing her is quite a feat, and you really only have to fear paralysis from her.

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 178-210 (115.5 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 154-182 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Offensive Thundy will lose if it lacks a NP boost.

    0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 68 HP / 236 Def Exploud: 102-122 (54.2 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 130-154 (77.8 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 120-142 (71.8 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    204+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 52-62 (31.1 - 37.1%) -- 78.1% chance to 3HKO


    Aegi needs +2 Atk to KO, while an immunity to Shadow Sneak means Exploud can always 2HKO unless it misses or something like that. The likelihood of a 3HKO on Aegi w/ BB means it can't comfortably switch in on anything but Ice Beam.

    I could do more calcs, but hopefully that gives a general idea of how good Exploud is. Even though I've done several battles w/ it, I haven't saved any of them, so I don't have any replays atm.
  11. Seth_

    Seth_

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    B might be too high, but she deserves some credit. She can also run set with rain dance, hydration, rest, thunder/toxic, dragon pulse/toxic.

    And what else beside chansey/blissy can switch in CharY or Thundurus? When you messed up your lead this mon gives you chance to not get crushed by one of the best wallbreakes in the game.
    freekhoorn likes this.
  12. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

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    Exploud is a threat indeed, but because it is so frail and slow it can be easy to take advantage of him and because he is pretty much always choice locked you can switch in to a resisting pokemon who than can deal with him. Or does exploud ohko (or twohkoes if its faster or if it can survive a hit) something with a not-very-effective move?

    Edit:hmm it does beat choiceband scizor this way cause it is faster and 2hkoes with boomburst. Interesting! Aegislash wins tough from it because its slower and against aegislash shield boomburst does only 30% and aegi can 2hko in blade form or ohko if its physically attacking. Heatran can counter it as well if its locked into boomburst, but sylveon can't. It can't 2hko chansey or blissey even with focus blast so they are counters too cause they can shrug off the damage. Sitrus berry special defense milotic can counter it too but they often do not run that of course.

    So certainly a threat but predictable and it dies against all sash users like mamoswine 1v1 cause it is so slow. And mega gengar koes with focus blast. Blaziken of course destroys it.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  13. GateCreeper

    GateCreeper

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    That moveset sounds terrible. I doubt that gets any use with Hydration having 0.7% usage on the pgl stats.

    Who says you need a hard switch in for those two? Mamoswine switches into any of Thundurus' moves barring Grass Knot and Focus Blast, and it's way more versatile than Goodra. Raikou minds none of Thundurus' moves barring Focus Blast, and can even use Thundurus as setup bait. Garchomp, arguably the best pokemon in this format, doesn't mind too much switching into a move from Char Y and easily OHKOs it in return. Char Y is relatively easily checked as well with its base 100 Speed, weakness to Stealth Rock, and low Defense.

    I'm not saying Goodra is terrible, but there are definitely a multitude of other pokemon that you can use over it and I don't think it can be compared along the likes of the mons in B rank.
    Omastar68 and cant say like this.
  14. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    Chansey and Blissey are very rare in BSS, and Milotic, well...that's barely a thing. Aegi is a problem, but it can't really switch in, and takes a beating even from BB, though Exploud won't win against Aegi that get a free switch in if it is locked into BB. Focus Blast on Gengar is pretty rare, and Exploud lives a Sludge Bomb and OHKOs w/ BB. It's also important to note that Exploud gets a free switch in on Substitute, WoW, and Shadow Ball, though only the latter can really be predicted. Sash users are just gross, Exploud doesn't handle them at all and the only predictable sasher is Breloom. Blaziken is brutal to Exploud, but I always use at least a couple things that destroy Blazike, so even though I lose a lot, you'll rarely see me lose to Blaziken. That's an example of the kind of team support Exploud requires-something to counter Blaziken. Other team support that Exploud appreciates include paralysis support and a Pokemon w/ priority, to revenge Sashers that sneak up on Exploud. Exploud is also a good Pokemon for TR, but watch out for Conkeldurr. Exploud is fairly predictable, but not extremely so. It's movepool is quite expansive, though unfortunately that's more on the physical side(Exploud's attacking stats are equal, but its best move is special, so it favors being a special attacker over going mixed. Still, there are some other options like an LO set w/ Icy Wind, which could maybe take care of a few Sashers(Garchomp at the very least.) Exploud also greatly appreciates Baton Pass support, synergizing well w/ Espeon and Scolipede, and liking both Calm Mind and Iron a Defense boosts passed to it(as well as speed from Scoli, ofc.) A dedicated baton pass receiver should probably have a LO. As for other sets, the only thing I can think of is Choice Scarf, but that doesn't seem very good.

    Exploud is far from perfect, thanks to a fairly low speed stat and somewhat poor bulk all around, but it can tear teams apart w/ the right support and its power, and can 1v1 a lot of popular Pokemon(Garchomp, Talonflame, Mega Gengar, Megamence, Landog, Cresselia, Porygon2, (Mega) Scizor, Mega Kang, Ferrothorn, and some others,) provided that they're not sashed, not boosted, and Exploud isn't locked into to a bad move or in KO range. I guess given all that Exploud should be ranked C. It is good in the BSS metagame, but it has a couple problems and competes for a team slot w/ other Pokemon weak to fighting, since they synergizes poorly w/ it and thus shouldn't be run together.

    EDIT: Anyone else notice the Sprite for Serperior got replaced w/ Chansey?
    freekhoorn likes this.
  15. 6tennis

    6tennis

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    I should mention that Exploud is incredibly frail, and it generally has a bad time against anything that can get a free switch-in on it. This trait, combined with its low speed, make it very susceptible to revenge killers. Rock- and Steel- types can usually switch into Boomburst, as well. Also AV Hera is god (kappa) and can beat Exploud in any scenario.
  16. Omastar68

    Omastar68

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    104/ 63/ 73 bulk is definitely not good, but "extremely frail" is an exaggeration. Exploud can still take some pretty strong neutral hits. Bad bulk and speed usually mean an otherwise good Pokemon(say Rampardos), is pretty much useless, at least in BSS, but what's special about Exploud is its bulk isn't absurdly bad, and its speed hits a fairly interesting benchmark, as even though base 68 isn't fast it outspeeds a lot of stuff like TTar and base 65s. It can also speed creep base 70s(or even vase 80s, although that's a bit of a stretch), w/ minimal strain on bulk. I'm not sure what you mean about AV Hera. Heracross has significantly better SpD than Def, so an AV doesn't seem like a very good fit for it in a predominantly physical metagame, especially since its SpD isn't that good, like Goodra's. Either I'm missing something or you're kidding. Still, it's true that AV Hera is gonna always beat Exploud, even if it's paralyzed.
    freekhoorn likes this.
  17. Anirav

    Anirav

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    I agree with omastar68 that exploud isn't extremely frail if you look at the calcs but I don't think it deserves B-. It is outclassed by many pokemon and there are several better options other than exploud. It also needs choice specs to get some KO's which allows your opponent to switch into threats such as heatran, lucario, ttar, and ferrothorn. I feel instead of using exploud you could simply go for a focus sash greninja which imo does a better job in beating any threat that you listed except for kang. It would help if you posted some replays showing its effectiveness if you have any. I feel that C is where it belongs.
  18. Seth_

    Seth_

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    Hi guys, let's talk about porygon-z!
    For my experience the most viable set is scarf adaptability. Triattack, hyper beam, dark pules and ice beam.

    Even if stats doesn't look so special (almost like slower but a bit more tanky zam) adaptability fixes it. Tri attack has 160 base power and still has 20% to status opponent. The power of hyper beam... IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!

    Many things are outspeeded and 2hko this set, some even ohko. With scarf it outspeed regular blaziken at +1, and base 80 scarfs. Hyper beam breaks many tough walls and its good to ohko things which you want to be gone.

    Also porygon can take usually one hit so he usualy has at least one kill.
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  19. freekhoorn

    freekhoorn

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    Tri attack has 80 base power plus stab makes it 120 not 160. I don't have any experience with porygon z actually.
  20. 6tennis

    6tennis

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    Adaptability increases that number to 160. It also makes Hyper Beam 300 BP, able to OHKO Mega Kang with some sets.
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  21. Seth_

    Seth_

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    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 192-228 (106 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    And that's Scarf set!
  22. a0161613

    a0161613

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    Then you are locked in to Hyper Beam and need to rest every other turn.

    I will just switch in Gengar or any other special wall and set up.
  23. Seth_

    Seth_

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    Yeah, dude, show me your switch ins...

    252+ SpA Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 130-154 (95.5 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 74-88 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 224-264 (123 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 108 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir: 170-202 (108.2 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Garchomp: 244-288 (113.4 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    And the list goes on...

    Only cres and sylveon from top 12 are 3hko.
  24. NOVED

    NOVED
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    This isnt gen 1 though. Like he said, you need to rest for a turn after using hyper beam.
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  25. Anirav

    Anirav

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    a0161613 is right and how can you switch to dark pulse or ice beam when you are choice locked due to the scarf.
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