1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (RMT-style posts here!)

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by ethan06, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. ethan06

    ethan06

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    I think the reason it was doing so badly for me was because Mega Doge was doing everything it could do already, and it just doesn't synergise well with the fast-hitting nature of my team. Specs needs some serious support to work though, that's for sure.
  2. Meultima

    Meultima

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    817
    It would seem the majority of Heatran run stallish-type sets. Leftovers clocks in at above 40% as the preferred item choice in Singles, although Choice Specs is at a respectable 21.5%.

    Now, these are the preferred moves on Heatran in Singles:

    1 Earth Power 43.1%
    2 Substitute 40.6%
    3 Flash Cannon 38.0%
    4 Toxic 36.2%
    5 Protect 33.0%
    6 Lava Plume 32.0%
    7 Overheat 25.8%
    8 Stealth Rock 23.1%
    9 Magma Storm 21.4%
    10 Flamethrower 20.2%

    I believe the stall/support bias can be easily observed here.
  3. Guilan

    Guilan

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    401
    If you start a battle with a Heatran vs a Talonflame, for example, the advantage is so absurd for the Heatran user, you absolutely can't lose.

    As seen in this hypothetical scenario:

    Turn 1, Talonflame U-turns, Heatran Subs, leftovers recovery
    Turn 2, Heatran can toxic / set-up s-rock or roast the poison-immune mons, or proceed to stall with magma storm / protect.

    Most counters of heatran have trouble killing it without being damaged, if it is behind a subs. Hyper Voice (fairy) does 1/4 damage and the normal does 1/2 damage. Even Infiltrator Noivern can't ohko it under normal circumstances. (Only if it carries HP ground)

    Never lead with a talonflame if the opponent has Heatran. I never do it.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  4. ethan06

    ethan06

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    It's funny, at around the 1500 rating (yes, the base rating, I cannot seem to break free from it what with bad luck and matchups) I haven't seen any Talonflames yet... Still, Mega Manectric does a fine job of countering Talon, and Gyarados can Intimidate and set up on it.
  5. Campaign

    Campaign

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    In 1650-1800 I'm seeing more and more defensive talonflames leads with rocky helmet, taunt and WoW. Taunt shuts down most hazard setters or status leads since they don't expect it and talon can outspeed most physical sweepers and survive their first attack after burning them, then just switch or roost.
    ethan06 likes this.
  6. ethan06

    ethan06

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    So I've gotten to that point in my IV breeding where the Larvesta I'm training up has 31/31/31/x/x/31 and I have absolutely no good partners with the last two IVs to give it. So instead of hopping on Marriland to look for an x/x/x/31/31/31 Ditto (<--subtle hint... FT 5IV Cottonee) I'm looking at other things to try in it's place. One big thing that occurred to me was that Bulky Waters with Ice can still beat my team singlehandedly, so I though it'd be a good idea to train a specially defensive Water-type of my own (with a Grass or Electric move) to counter them. I'm thinking AV Slowbro at the moment (I'd use Volcanion when it comes out but event Pokémon are banned smh...), but something like Freeze Dry Lapras isn't out of the question. What do you guys think, given the current make-up of my team? I really want to stave off some Ice Beams...
  7. Guilan

    Guilan

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    401
    Ok, a new attempt of a team for Singles, centered on Vileplume (yes, Vile Plume), and Charizard X. Klefki's there for Sunny Day support.
    I have bred most of the Pokémons in my Pokémon X game, except Charizardite Y.

    (Vileplume) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 140 Spd / 252 SAtk / 108 HP / 8 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Energy Ball

    - What does this thing have over Chlorophyll Venusaur? Dazzling Gleam, glamour and Drain Punch.
    - Under the sun, outspeed Garchomp and Hydreigon, and OHKO the latter with Dazzling Gleam. Survives a nonboosted hit from the two.
    - Outspeed Mega Zard Y under the sun and OHKO it with hp rock.
    - Can't do much to Aegislash without Hp Fire



    (Charizard) @ Charizardite Y
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Ancient Power
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Air Cutter

    - Hidden Power ground against Heatran, Ancient Power against other Mega Y-Zards, the rest is standard.

    (Klefki) @ Eject Button
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Thunder Wave
    - Foul Play
    - Spikes

    Summons Sunny Day and disappears. If given the chance, can also set up some spikes to break sashes. The rest is standard.

    (Aegislash) @ Weakness Policy
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 240 SAtk / 252 HP / 16 Def
    Quiet Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Flash Cannon
    - Shadow Sneak
    - King's Shield

    - Weakness Policy Aegislash has stolen me many games.

    (Breloom) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Superpower
    - Rock Tomb

    - Focus sash is fantastic on this mon, but I do not run spore, I prefer the sheer power of super power.

    (Garchomp) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Tomb
    - Iron Head

    - Standard CB Chomp, ready to smash Mega-Kangaskhans.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  8. Charro

    Charro

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    I'm building my very first team for this meta and need some advice.

    [​IMG]
    Giygas (Gengar-Mega) (M) @ Gengarite
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect
    - Perish Song
    - Destiny Bond

    Slapped this on my team just so I could guarantee some wins, this build is Darkrai-level fagginess IMO, but hey, I want to learn the meta before I try more gimmicky things.

    [​IMG]
    Motorhead (Rotom-Wash) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Trick

    Pretty simple, Trick the Scarf onto something, Wisp the switch in. I have watched a couple of videos and that normally worked.

    [​IMG]
    Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
    Ability: Stance Change
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Quiet Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - King's Shield
    - Flash Cannon
    - Shadow Sneak

    Standard stuff.

    [​IMG]
    The Heavy (Chesnaught) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Bulletproof
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Spiky Shield
    - Seed Bomb
    - Synthesis

    Good against a ton of physically offensive mons, it walls Gengar to death, but that thing is probably going to Perish Trap me anyway. Was thinking about using Poison Heal Breloom at first but Chesnaught is more defensive so I'm gonna try it first because it laughs at Garchomp, even if it Sword Dances, it can only Outrage (unless it runs Fire Fang) and from there, Aegislash/Cobalion deal with it easily.

    [​IMG]
    Athos (Cobalion) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 24 Atk / 252 Spd / 232 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch

    Put it there so I can check Kangaskhan, it also has a chance of KOing Azumarill if it's healthy (+6 Aqua Jet does like 93 % p_p), and can keep non-scarf/sash Garchomp at bay and prevent Luke from mega evolving. Maybe I should switch its item to Expert belt but I don't know.

    [​IMG]
    Paula (Gardevoir) (F) @ Gardevoirite
    Ability: Trace
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hyper Voice
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    Wanted to try because I love Gardy, it can switch into Scarf Heatran and wreck M-Saur. Not really sure about her tho, I could use something else, maybe a mega that doesn't always need to evolve like Gyarados or a Talonflame.
    .
  9. joltitect

    joltitect

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Anyone mind helping a new player build a good team with these pokemon (if possible)?
    Greninja

    dark pulse
    ice beam
    grass knot
    scald

    gengar

    shadow ball
    focus blast
    psychic
    thunderbolt (sometimes use gengarite)

    Aegislash

    Sacred Sword
    Swords dance
    Kings shield
    Shadow Sneak

    Metagross

    Earthquake
    Meteor Mash
    Zen headbutt
    Protect

    Garchomp

    Dragon claw
    Earthquake
    Substitute
    Protect

    Scizor

    Bullet Punch
    Swords Dance
    Roost
    Pursuit

    I'm looking for something I can do for singles and doubles in battle spot. In doubles I usually start with greninja and mega gengar to prevent switching and cover an array of attacks.
  10. Campaign

    Campaign

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    The biggest problem with PTrap Gengar is that even after fully investing in HP, it's still not a very durable pokemon in the current Battle Spot meta. You have to be extremely good at predicting their moves and the reason is that they have two free turns to kill you - On the opening turn when you cast PS, and the subsequent turn after you protect, which is why a lot of people don't run Shadow Ball and instead run Sub. You still need the spd EV's with sub but you are frequently able to take only a fraction of the damage from hits that would ordinarily kill your Gengar. And since you're not running SpAtk EV's, SB isn't enormously important anyway - What is important is surviving. It's a build that takes a lot of practice to learn to play well because most people will see a lead Gengar and know that it will likely be running PS/DB.

    The second thing you need is a strong pivot. In singles, you only get 3 pokemon and when you swap your Gengar out, whatever you put in is going to take a hit and your opponent knows it so they'll usually just throw out their biggest nuke or debuff they have on the swap turn. You have Aegis and Chesnaught who are both strong but weak to fire and you really don't have much in the way of SP Defense. Aegislash can take a sp hit from just about anything bar fire and you get a proc on weakness policy but he's very, very slow and after already having taken damage, will quite often die on the next turn to most sweepers other than ghost/psychic (who your ShadowSneak will KO).

    Generally speaking, what you have is pretty standard and very strong. Some good alternatives however, if you find yourself wanting to play around, are to drop speed EVs/shadow ball/destiny bond and go for a more defensive build with Calm nature and split the remaining EV's up between def/sp def, switching in Disable or Sub. Disable works well if you have more bulk because you can make use of that turn after protect (assuming you don't want to just try for the lower chance protect) and effectively take out their most powerful spell against you.

    Personally, on 252 Spd, I found that I got a lot more use out of DB than SB but it felt like I was using it way too often before my song ended, which isn't what you want from a perishtrapper, so I swapped it for Sub.
    Charro likes this.
  11. starlightfeline

    starlightfeline

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    I'm not familiar with Doubles meta, but you're going to want to ditch Greninja. It's very frail and with so many priority-running pokemon running around, you're going to get ohko'd before you know it. BB CB Talonflame, one of the most common pokemon you see, gets a clean ohko on it with Brave Bird, Fake Out MegaKanga does about 60%, etc. Greninja is good, but with the meta is very priority-focused, which isn't where Greninja excels.
  12. ethan06

    ethan06

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    My team is almost done!

    It's more or less the same as before, but I swapped out Crustle for Volcarona to cover my Ice weakness and it's turned out fairly well. Gourgeist and Volcarona actually synergise marvelously together despite the shared Flying weakness; Gourgeist can come in on practically any non-Fire-type physical attacker and burn it, set Leech Seed and generally be a pain in the butt before switching out to Volcarona and setting up a Quiver Dance. Lum Berry is really good on Volcarona as it's a magnet for paralysis and setting up on Thunder Wave is a lot of fun.

    Originally I swapped Whimsicott out for a Sylveon to help with the special bulk issues but I brought it back in after realising just how much I detest Meowstic. I may need to tweak some EV spreads to make the team more specially tanky overall (I'm considering AV Landorus) but I'm happy with it as it is right now. Here's a threat list, based on the Global Link stats:

  13. Fieryguns

    Fieryguns

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    This is my current team.
    [​IMG]
    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    Ability : Scrappy -> Parental Bond
    252Atk/252Spd/4HP
    Jolly Nature
    Power-Up-Punch
    Return
    Sucker Punch
    Earthquake
    Standard Mega Kangaskhan set. This thing is stupidly broken and has saved my ass so many times. Although being extremely good, I'm looking to switch it because so many teams carry a check/counter to mega Kangaskhan.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    252HP/252SpAtk/4Sp.Def
    Ability : Flash Fire
    Modest Nature
    Flash Cannon
    Lava Plume
    Stealth Rock
    This Pokemon is a great counter to Talonflame and has saved me from Talonflame Pokemon countless times.

    [​IMG]
    Excadrill@ Life Orb
    252HP/252Atk/4Sp.Def
    Ability : Mold Breaker
    Adamant Nature
    Earthquake
    Swords Dance
    Rock Slide
    Rapid Spin
    I mainly put this thing to check Rotom-W. Overall, I don't really use Excadrill that much because it gets wrecked by too many common Pokemon. I am definitely looking to switch this Pokemon to another Rotom-W check. If anyone can suggest me a good Rotom-W check/counter (That aren't Mega's), I'd really appreciate it.

    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    252Sp.Atk/252/Spd/4HP
    Ability : Levitate
    Timid Nature
    Will-O-Wisp
    Shadow Ball
    Destiny Bond
    Sludge Wave
    I really, really like using Gengar. Will-O-Wisp is so good on major threats such as mega kangaskhan and Destiny Bond usually lets me get an extra kill.

    Azumarill @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]
    252Atk/252HP/4Sp.Def
    Ability : Huge Power
    Adamant Nature
    Aqua Jet
    Brick Break
    Play Rough
    Waterfall

    I'm definitely considering the belly drum set but I'm not quite sure if the Belly Drum set can even kill a large portion of the metagame. I'm also considering switching Brick Break for Superpower, but Brick Break is good on teams that use Dual Screens.

    [​IMG]
    Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
    Ability : Stance Change
    Adamant Nature
    Swords Dance
    King's Shield
    Sacred Sword
    Shadow Sneak

    This Pokemon is extremely good and has won me countless matches, I'm definitely considering running mixed Aegislash as it would take advantage of the Weakness Policy a bit more.
  14. Charro

    Charro

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Thanks for the input, the team is not made yet, it's just something I brainstormed on Showdown, I don't wanna breed anything yet until I have something solid (except for Gardevoir which I already have in my OU team, but she'll probably need 252 speed to at least tie with M-Kanga). Or I could also swap Gardy for a Scarf Heatran and give Rotom Specs.
  15. ADT7

    ADT7

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2014
    Messages:
    3
    I'm not sure if this is the best place for this because it's a bit of a hybrid between RMT and 'help me finish my team', but here I go anyway.

    I've been playing on the Battle Spot with this 'team' for quite a while, but the problem I have is that I always end up using 3 out of 4 members of my team, and the other 2 members keep rotating and proving to be ultimately useless. What I'm looking for is some advice on what to fill the last two team slots with to round out my team and have some useful other options, rather than just passengers that never get used.

    Here is the core 4 I want to keep (boring I know, but they are effective and I just love Heatran and Garchomp as Pokemon and always have).

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance

    Standard Garchomp, no surprises here. Lum Berry is the item of choice because it gives you so many free turns against a lot of troublesome Pokemon and I wanted to use Choice Band elsewhere (Garchomp outspeeds nearly everything anyway, so Choice Scarf seems a waste to me).

    [​IMG]
    Azumarill @ Choice Band
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Play Rough
    - Superpower

    Boring old Choice Band Azumarill, I was using Belly Drum for a while but I found it too fragile for my tastes. This is basically here to kill opposing Garchomps, but it can also power it's way through a whole variety of things and it's an important source of priority.

    [​IMG]
    Mandibuzz (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Foul Play
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Taunt

    Yet another boring build, but it works. My physical wall, Taunt-er and Toxic spreader. Rocky Helmet is used since it's fairly ridiculous with Taunt and I wanted Leftovers elsewhere, I'm considering switching this for Skarmory so that I can smash things with Brave Bird, but it's less effective against Garchomp than Foul Play (and Garchomp is EVERYWHERE... including my team).

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Protect
    - Stone Edge

    Big, bulky and an absolute nightmare for some teams with Protect thrown in the mix. Heatran gets used for a mixture of scouting, spread burns with Lava Plume and hard walling Talonflame and both Charizards (and then destroying them with Stone Edge).

    In terms of what I've tried so far for the other slots:
    - Mega Venusaur (doesn't do enough for me, it's big and bulky, but not all that powerful)
    - Mega Kangaskhan (it's good, but... honestly I got bored of it)
    - Mega Mawile (doesn't offer enough over Azumarill and can be very fragile)
    - Aegislash (never seemed to do much, I'd protect a bunch, chip away and then get destroyed)
    - Landorus-T (another good check for Garchomp and physical Pokemon in general, but Manibuzz does that job better)
    - Thundurus-I (I probably didn't give this enough time, but I found it too fragile, although Prankster Thunder Wave was awesome)
    - Conkeldurr (too predictable, felt it was far too easy for my opponents to play around)
    - Rotom-W (it's just not great in the current Battle Spot meta, I wasn't finding enough opportunities to switch in)
    - Scizor (this was my Choice Band user before I changed my Azumarill over, without the ability to spam Bullet Punch it lost it's appeal)

    So yeah, does anyone have any advice on what to round this out with, or alternatives for my current team members?
  16. ethan06

    ethan06

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    That's exactly the problem I had with my own team... It's not difficult to get to the point where you have a core of Pokémon that are so good that you don't need to use anything else. However, adaptability is key when everyone is running something completely random alongside the top threats.

    One thing that I believe every Battle spot team needs is a Pokémon with Prankster Taunt; Meowstic and Whimsicott are quite common Pokémon even in Singles, and having something that can get the quick Taunt to shut them down is amazing (Whimsicott is the fastest possible Prankster but they normally don't run max Speed, making them fairly easy to speed creep with Thundurus-I, Meowstic or your own Whimsicott). For this reason, I'd suggest re-adding Thundurus-I; Electric-Flying is a really good typing in a metagame where Pokémon with strong Ice moves are reasonably uncommon and easy to predict from Team Preview (aside from HP [Ice} which is generally quite weak - with some defense investment you shouldn't have a problem). With a Timid nature Thundurus beats neutral natured 0 Spd Whimsicott without any investment so you can go straight to power and bulk. However, this only accounts for Prankster so it may be useful to add some speed investment if you deem it necessary.

    Thundurus-I @ Leftovers
    Timid
    Prankster
    252 HP/252 Sp. Atk/4 Sp. Def
    -Taunt
    -Thunder Wave/Substitute
    -Thunderbolt/Volt Switch
    -Hidden Power [Ice] Focus Blast
  17. Sara Sol

    Sara Sol

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    15
    Hello! New to XY, having skipped two generations of competitive pokemon, and very eager to build and improve my ingame team for battle spot.

    After reading all about the hubub of various powerhouse and not really having much knowledge concerning RNG-ing pokemon from past generations, here is my first team I've managed to assemble, after attempting to do research here on smogon. I'd prefer to avoid mega-evolutions and unbreedable pokes in teambuilding (at least for now, but I realize I will probably have to dip into the Mega stones eventually to be competitive), but these six pokes (along with an AV goodra and a bulky volcarona) form my battle spot team. I've read the brief guide and the threat list on these forums, and definitely hope to learn more about trends/cores/etc beyond what the global link data shows me.

    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Brick Break
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit

    Aegislash @ Spooky Plate
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 4 SDef / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Shadow Sneak
    - King's Shield
    - Sacred Sword

    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest

    Talonflame @ Sky Plate
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flare Blitz
    - Roost
    - U-turn

    Azumarill @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet
    - Play Rough
    - Power-Up Punch

    I'm really bad at evaluating what 3 pokemon to send out, even after reading the threat list, so I've been smashed by enough variety of teams that I'm not really sure what angle to approach improving this team. Any and all advice would be really appreciated.
  18. starlightfeline

    starlightfeline

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    This is more bits and pieces than anything, but it should be helpful:
    I'd suggest removing Power-up-punch in favor of Superpower for Azumarill. Azumarill usually can tank a few hits, but most things carry a SE hit on it, and it's slow, meaning little time to set up.
    Another thing I'm noticing is a lack of a good check against Mega Kangashkan. I've also seen people use Weakness Policy on Slash. Spooky plate's a good idea, but I've never used it so can't vouch.
    Outrage isn't the best move to use on Dragonite, unless you're positive the opposing team won't whip out a fairy.
  19. Sara Sol

    Sara Sol

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    15
    Does switching to D-claw miss out any notable ko's that Outrage would normally get at +1? I love outrage's power, but I can definitely see why I'd need to be careful with it.
    What's a good non-niche check against mega-k? I asked my friend and he basically said "your own mega-k at +2" so I'm kinda worried, especially since I thought defensive wow rotom would be sufficient.
    I've liked Power-up thus far for my azu, especially going the bulkier vest route, but it's a bit dicey at times, yeah.

    Thanks a lot for the advice!
  20. Verallix

    Verallix

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Off the top of my head, min HP MKang and 252HP/0Def Rotom are prime OHKO targets for +1 Outrage. Physically defensive Rotom are also not 2HKO'd by Dragon Claw. Hippowdon is 2HKO'd by Outrage. Cresselia is possibly 2HKO'd by Outrage but never by Dragon Claw. I can't really think of many relevant threats, but, I'm not thinking that hard. Fairies aren't really your only concern either, being locked into Outrage vs Aegislash (who is everywhere) is just awful. But, if there are steel types and fairies all over the team preview you know enough not to just click outrage mindlessly. Outrage DDNite is to blow holes in a team lacking appropriate counters and then have one of your many priority users clean up the rest of the mess. As your team is, I would prefer Outrage. Just be careful about when you send him out. Sending him out via say, a slow u-turn / volt switch vs something he threatens so you can DD on the switch and get a good look at their answer to your DDNite is probably the best situation; and one that is very easy to create. In general, you'll find that you'll be DDing as the opponent switches to their counter anyway so locking yourself into Outrage isn't even an issue. Dragon Claw is for safety, and ultimately if you find you're frequently stuck avoiding Outrage you can always switch it out for the "safety" of Dragon Claw. Outrage is just a Heart Scale away if you ever change your mind. The best way to find out what works for you is to just go out and play it versus real opponents.

    As for countering MKang, there aren't really many "sure fire" counters. Rocky Helmet mons can generally cause enough of a headache that the MKang user either switches or cripples themselves; Ferrothorn, Cresselia, Mandibuzz and Slowbro are viable in that sense. Cress, Mandi and Slowbro can all status MKang and stall it out as it kills itself on rocky helmet, but if they've obtained any boosts beforehand that strategy doesn't work at all. Focus Sash Breloom, Drain + Mach Punch Conkeldurr, Terrakion and MegaLuke can all handle Kang easily on the revenge. Sableye and Klefki can ruin it with prankster status + foul play. Gengar / Mega Gengar are immune to most of MKang's standard moves. A lot of them rely on Suckerpunch to hit levitating ghosts. SubDisable and Perish Trapping can be really effective in that sense, but, it's not that uncommon for MKang's to carry Rock Slide nowadays (For reasons beyond me, honestly.) Aegislash carrying Air Balloon can force MKang to switch / stall out sucker punch's PP with King's Shield. There's probably more, but even most of these things are under the condition that you are 100% healthy, switching in safely, or the MKang hasn't boosted up already. It's really hard to stop an MKang that has already gained momentum mid to late game.

    Oh, speaking of, even physically defensive Rotom-W is 2HKO'd by MKang's Return, so you can't switch in (Except on a predicted EQ / Sucker Punch) and you're reliant on the 85% accuracy of WoW to stop it.

    I've never used AV Azu, but in theory I'd much prefer the ability to boost up as opposed to neutering your attack and defense with Superpower. Really superpower is only used to hit Ferrothorn anyway.

    I ended up talking a lot more than I meant to. I'm new to analyzing anyone's team other than my own, hopefully that was somewhat useful to you.
    Sara Sol likes this.
  21. Sara Sol

    Sara Sol

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    15
    Thanks for you insight! I definitely like the points you've brought up! I will probably go the mandibuzz/ferro rocky helmet route for Mega-K, as currently my Gengar is the 3 attack/Dbond set. I feel bad for such a short reply to your well thought post, and when I think of more, I'll add it!
  22. Verallix

    Verallix

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    DBond Gengar works fine as well as long as the opposing MKang's only way to hit you is sucker punch. You can just alternate between DBond and attacking. But again, I have seen an increase in more "unique" MKang's on BS of late, so you have to be cautious when dealing with them that way.

    MKang is definitely a threat you have to prepare for, but there are ways around it if you're clever. In fact I probably should have just thought about scenarios in which you can beat MKang as is. As mentioned before, a +1 Outrage will have a shot at OHKOing 0HP MKang and at worst will maim all variants badly enough that any of your priority users can revenge it easily later. You can also play mindgames using a combination of Aegislash + Talonflame, as Aegislash is only vulnerable to Sucker Punch and Earthquake. Bringing Aegislash in on PuP / Return or on the revenge, then dry switching to Talonflame puts a lot of pressure on your opponent to predict correctly. From there you can either maim with brave bird, or U-turn back to Aegislash and force them back into a prediction game. A U-turn from a fully healthy Scizor also brings MKang into KO range for Talonflame / Healthy Dragonite / Aegislash. You have the capability to stop it already, just no real "answer." Oh, back to arguments for Superpower, it has a 43% chance to OHKO 0HP Mkang, and does minimum 75% to 252HP, so, that's another argument for it.. but, now that I look, your Azu is only 16HP so it might not even survive an Adamant Return. Still, it's something to consider if you're finding PuP lackluster I suppose.

    You don't have to feel bad; rather I feel bad that you said it was well thought. I'm more or less incoherently rambling for a few sentences, getting distracted, then coming to a sudden realization 5 minutes later which I add on. In fact I haven't even actually taken the time to analyze your team in depth, I only added to the train of thought that was already moving.
  23. Nitewolf

    Nitewolf

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    I'm currently trying to build a second team for Battle Spot singles, and as usual, I've gotten stuck at the last member, this is what I have so far:


    [​IMG]

    Venusaur @Venusaurite
    Overgrow > Thick Fat
    Relaxed Nature
    252 HP/8 Def/252 SpDef
    -Giga Drain
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Earthquake
    -Synthesis


    [​IMG]

    Rotom @ Leftovers
    Levitate
    Calm Nature
    252 HP/8 Def/252 SpDef
    -Thunder Wave
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Overheat
    -Volt Switch


    [​IMG]

    Slowbro @Assault Vest
    Regenerator
    Bold Nature
    252 HP/252 Def/8 SpDef
    -Psychic
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Fire Blast


    [​IMG]

    Heracross @Heracronite
    Guts > Skill Link
    Adamant Nature
    8 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    -Pin Missile
    -Close Combat
    -Rock Blast
    -Earthquake


    [​IMG]

    Sableye @ Rocky Helmet
    Prankster
    Careful Nature
    252 HP/8 Def/252 SpDef
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Taunt
    -Knock Off
    -Recover


    I feel I lack one good physical attacker, but I have tried my best to avoid the usual plagues like Aegislash, Garchomp (two Pokemon that I fear fit very well in the last slot), Talonflame and others, and I wish to keep it like that.

    I was thinking maybe a Dragon Dancer like Weakness Policy Dragonite or maybe Haxorus, any suggestions? :$
  24. ethan06

    ethan06

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    Okay, looking at your team, I think a Dragon Dancer would do fairly well. Dragon type synergises with the spread of types that you already have, and you haven't put Lum Berry on anything yet so I'd definitely try Haxorus. Mold Breaker helps out a ton with the Rotom formes, which you may already have trouble with. The added Fairy and Ice weakness aren't too bad as you've already covered them quite well; however, you'll probably end up using Haxorus together with Mega Venusaur as they go together really well, and you risk making Mega Heracross kind of redundant :/

    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    Jolly
    Mold Breaker
    252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Claw/Dual Chop/Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Poison Jab/Rock Slide

    Another option is a physical attacker that packs U-Turn. If you're willing to seek one out, Landorus is a great option; however, using an offensive Gliscor can also work out if you want a bulkier team. There are also plenty of other options that I can't think of at the moment, but picking one that has good type synergy with Rotom-H is a good idea for more effective VoltTurning. The given EV spread allows you to comfortably get the jump on unboosted 252+ base Tyranitar, should one appear.

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Impish/Adamant
    Poison Heal
    252 Atk/180 HP/76 Spd
    -Earthquake
    -U-Turn
    -Knock Off
    -Ice Fang/Protect/Substitute

    ----
    I've decided to finalise my team to MManectric/Landorus-T/Gyarados/Whimsicott/Heatran/Gourgeist. I dropped Volcarona after I realised that having three Flying weaks on one team was probably a bad idea, Manectric or no Manectric. For Heatran, I've decided on this set:

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Modest
    Flash Fire
    252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Ancient Power
    -Flash Cannon

    Gunna test it out~
  25. Nitewolf

    Nitewolf

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks! I think I will try Haxorus out, since I have already used Gliscor in my previous team.

    Just a question, what is the notable difference between Jolly and Adamant on Haxorus? What threats would I not OHKO or outspeed depending on each nature?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)