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Battle Spot Teambuilding & Help Thread (SuMo Edition Reloaded 2.0)

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by ethan06, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Ben of Oz

    Ben of Oz

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12
    Sludge Wave is great, hadn't even considered it. After Stealth Rock and Sandstorm damage it has a 45% chance to OHKO Lele which is not too bad. With the EVs I posted it also OHKOs Tapu Koko which is a nice bonus.

    I'll try that Hippo spread out, I didn't realize that Garchomp still can't 2HKO even with 0 Def investment. Thanks for the rate!
    Solerme likes this.
  2. Ben of Oz

    Ben of Oz

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12
    Actually found another 6th for this:

    Kartana @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Smart Strike
    - Sacred Sword
    - Psycho Cut

    With the given EVs, survives a Tapu Lele Psychic and outspeeds to OHKO with Smart Strike. Also outspeeds and OHKOs Greninja, +1 Gyarados, 3HKO at best by Tapu Fini and Mamoswine and 2HKOs back. Beast Boost gives it a decent chance to sweep late game as well.
    Chrono Prodigy and Solerme like this.
  3. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    52
    Hi everyone, so in a bit of a mad rush to try and throw a bss team together for the tourney tomorrow, this is what i have so far, any suggestions to switching stuff is welcome, I'd prefer to keep blaziken and garchomp inside the team.

    Garchomp @ Choice Band
    Ability: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Rock Slide
    - Poison Jab

    Blaziken @ Firium Z
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Protect
    - Baton Pass
    - Flare Blitz
    - High Jump Kick

    Tapu Fini @ leftovers
    Ability: Misty Surge
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Moonblast
    - HP Ice
    - Scald

    Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Kings Shield
    - Swords Dance
    - Sacred Sword
    - Shadow Sneak

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Extrasensory

    Zoroark @ Dread Plate
    Ability: Illusion
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Shadow Ball
    - Taunt
    - Pursuit


    The real core to the team are probably the top three, Blaziken by anyone's books is a decent mon, setups well for banded Garchomp, admittedly a certain amount of symbiosis between them which has led to quick defeats on the ladder. Fini eats hits for days and can catch incoming chomps off guard with HP Ice, The lower three are the ones i'm not too sure about, Aegislash does its 50/50 thing well although i feel sometimes with unfavorable matchups its more a 75/25 to death, although thats more an issue with my choice of three for the games. Zoroark was more of a joke than anything and a bit of a gimmick so if something is gonna get switched it'll be that as its another frail dark type which can get bodied by any fighting type on my team. Any comments on how bad or ridiculously offensive this team is are welcome and anything to add to or replace :D
    TGS
  4. Solerme

    Solerme
    is an official Team Rater

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    306

    Hi there, your team in my opinion is screaming for Mega Salamence's addition. It has a lot of good Mence partners such as Blaziken, Fini, Aegislash and even Greninja might help it. As for Garchomp, well it fits almost every team, so...

    You could try to switch out Zoro for this set:

    [​IMG] @ Salamencite
    Ability: Aerilate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 212 HP / 220 SpD / 76 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Facade / Return
    - Substitute / Earthquake
    - Roost

    Specially Defensive Mence. I'm suggesting this set for two reasons: the first is that you have baton pass on Blaziken, so you can simply pass the speed to this; the second is that your offensive potential is already high, so a more bulky set of mence might fit the team even better.
    This mence hits 150 speed, this means that at +1 it will outspeed Pheromosa. Also the EVs are made in order to have more SpD that Def, so that Download wouldn't boost opposing Porygons Special Attack.


    I was also thinking, since, again, you already have a lot of offensive potential, that switching Aegislash for Ferrothorn could be a good idea here. Not that Aegislash is bad, Aegislash fits pretty well the team, but Ferro might help completing not only the Dragon / Steel / Fairy core, but also the Grass / Water / Fire one.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Gyro Ball
    - Bullet Seed
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect / Knock Off / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave

    Ferro might also help versus Bulky-water. Your team seems a little weak to those tbf.

    In the end i'd just add minor changes here and there:
    - Remove Scald from Fini, add Hydro Pump or Surf. Its ability prevents burn, so you can go for damage.
    - Turn Greninja into a mixed attacker, adding 20 evs in atk and a Naive nature. Remove Surf for Hydro Pump / Low Kick / Rock Slide / Grass Knot or Water Shuriken to have a priority and Extrasensory for Gunk Shot.
    - Switch Chomp's nature to Jolly. I can understand that you can pass speed to it, but having a pokemon that has 102 base speed means that at +1, with a jolly nature, it will always outspeed opposing base 100 that boost their speed (DD CHarizard X for example, or Scarfed Chomp itself)


    Hope this will help you out :]
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  5. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    52

    Thanks for the help, I'm shiny hatching a froakie atm, so once i've done that i'm probably gonna add Ferrothorn and switch in a jolly chomp as i have both of those ready to do final breeding for, for the tourney though i've switched in kartana for Zoro as it'll complete both cores like ferro even though it lacks defensive prowess. Salamence will be an addition somepoint in the future but for now ferro and jolly garchomp i think will defo help the team synergise well. I was also thinking maybe mega mawile for aegislash with a sub set and maybe switch something else for more defensive rolls, but yeah much appreciated!
    Solerme likes this.
  6. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    52
    Aye Aye, so the team has undergone drastic changes, weight slimming, been to the gym, done some bench presses, generally thrown out the window and started over, the espeon comes from Dancing beyond the veils (ty Solerme, awesome set) and having played with it I like it a lot as an anti lead and flat walls any setup and smeargle. Past that i feel like bringing dual psychics and fairies might be a bit touch and go so any suggestions of switches are welcome :D

    Side note: unsure on whether to bring superpower or ice punch on the azu, depending on diff matchups and the other team hasn't been dropped so much as just is still being built (Ferroseed being a pain)

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam

    Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Synthesis
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Giga Drain

    Azumarill @ Normalium Z
    Ability: Huge Power
    - Belly Drum
    - Aqua Jet
    - Play Rough

    Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 120 HP / 248 Atk / 100 SpD / 40 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Sucker Punch
    - Play Rough
    - Iron Head

    Blaziken @ Firium Z
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance
    - High Jump Kick
    - Flare Blitz

    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 24 HP / 172 SpA / 196 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Yawn
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Psychic
  7. Solerme

    Solerme
    is an official Team Rater

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    306
    With the dual screen strategy it's safe to say that a full hyper offensive team would be better, or at least that's what i think :]

    I'll start changing Espeon's EVs with these:

    [​IMG] @ Light Clay
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 236 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Yawn
    - Psychic
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen

    EVs are to outspeed Adamant Mence, and to have as much bulk as possible (survives outrage from chomp for example). You won't need special attack since you need bulk on the dual screen setter or common mons such as Scarf Chomp or Tapu Koko will end up killing it, leaving you 2 vs 3 from the very beginning.

    Going on, i like that Blaziken, it works pretty well behind the screens. Also, even not being a fan of it, Azumarill can work with this strategy too, and since you have no spread on it i'll add a standard set down here, changing it to a Sitrus BD set to not stack with the other Z:
    [​IMG] @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Aqua Jet
    - Play Rough
    - Waterfall / Knock Off


    Now your team would be like: Espeon / Blaziken / Azumarill.

    At this point your team struggles in front of bulky Water-types. Tapu Koko would be great for the team, but its Fairy-type would be a little redundant with Azu's, so we can either Add Koko and remove Azu for Mega Gyarados, that is a fantastic choice with this strategy and would also act as a switch in for Ground-type attacks, or keep Azumarill and add Thundurus-T and Mega Gengar.


    [​IMG] @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 84 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 172 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Fang
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance

    This is a pretty standard spread for Gyarados with the screens. It hits 202 Speed after a DD outspeeding base 130 and it outspeeds Breloom without before the boost.




    [​IMG] @ Electric Seed
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 92 HP / 4 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Dazzling Gleam
    - Grass Knot
    - Calm Mind

    Behind Reflect it survives GRound-Z from Excadrill and Chomp. Regular Earthquake is a 3HKO, even PJab from Life Orb Pheromosa is a 3HKo.

    -------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG] @ Z something, Life Orb, or Sitrus.
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Nasty Plot

    Fight Z is great on it, for example +2 Z Focus Blast can OHKO Chansey, making it a fantastic wallbreaker. Even Elec Z is pretty solid on it, but you don't want to use 2 Z mons also Life Orb or Sitrus Berry are options.
    Speaking fairly, behind the screens you could even use a totally different set with Agility a Life Orb and 3 attacks, imo. But the first one is the standard.

    [​IMG] @ Gengarite
    Ability: Cursed Body
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hex
    - Substitute
    - Hypnosis

    Casinogar. Works fine with Espeon's Yawn and can easily fire its Hypnosis if guarded by the dual screens.


    As for the Last mon, maybe you could use a mon that can give you a way to lead the team if Espeon could fare a tough match up when. For example if you see opposing Mega Gengars.
    Specially Defensive Hippowdon could fit, by both helping Gengar with Yawn, your setup sweepers and with the matchup said above.

    [​IMG] @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Yawn
    - Whirlwind / Rock Tomb


    So in the end the team would be like this: Espeon / Blaziken / Tapu Koko / Gyarados / Hippowdon + something defensive such as Ferrothorn, that would help even more vs Water-types and offer a switch in for those and for Electric-types.

    or

    Espeon / Blaziken / Thundurus / Azumarill / Mega Gengar / Hippowdon

    Hope this will help.
  8. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    52

    Ty for all the suggestions, after reading through i found an interesting build set of a triple core which i'm not sure whether the last two have:


    [​IMG] @ Light Clay
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 236 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Yawn
    - Psychic
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen

    The new EV set, I like the speed creep on mega mence now, found not having it a bit of an issue, but this set will help a lot so ty v much :]

    Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 100 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Crunch
    - Waterfall

    Bit bulky but has all the speed to get the sub up and start dancing, I feel as if gyarados on this team would adopt more of a stall breaker and hole puncher position, not to kill but to badly maim let either blaziken or koko or possibly kartana finish up and sweep the rest.

    Blaziken @ Firium Z
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance
    - High Jump Kick
    - Flare Blitz

    Having played with speed passing its alright but i think BP and SD are freely interchangeable on the fiery chicken, SD is there purely because it was the last set I played. Speed Boost is of course the key to the sweeping potential of this, and these first three mons two thirds of the elemental core and the F-P-D core and synergise relatively well i think.

    Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Gyro Ball
    - Bullet Seed
    - Leech Seed
    - Stealth Rock

    Your Ferro suggestion from the last team, completes the elemental core and starts the D-S-F core, is the flat wall to any fini who doesn't bring natures madness, which even then with leftys instead of rocky helmet has issues stopping this set, having played it a couple times.

    Salamence @ Salamencite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Roost
    - Return
    - Earthquake

    The second part to the D-S-F core, builds upon the hitting like a train theme, your standard mega mence, no more no less

    Tapu Koko @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Evs: 20 Def / 252 SpA / 40 SpD / 196 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - HP Ice
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Volt Switch

    The answer to Scarf Lele and completes the D-S-F core, it outruns and kills it before it kills koko, only issue is it requires a sack, so there might be a rock and a hard place situation in which ferrothorn is forced to be brought due to Lele. However this is speed crept to outrun any greninja and scarf Lele, on the occasion a pheromosa doesn't run max speed this is unlikely to not outspeed when the phero is at +1 unless it had no speed investment, which wouldn't make sense in the first place, but anyway crept to the next fastest thing and OHKO's unless it has sash. Another slight issue, so unsure whether to sacrifice out running scarf lele is the garunteed kill on lando as with the current spread it 100% doesn't with Hp Ice.

    The other possibility was a kartana, probably either fightinium Z or Sash, but unsure whether the full offensive is required.

    Just something to bounce off from your ideas, any other suggestions are as always welcome,
    Solerme likes this.
  9. Sweek

    Sweek

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    I need help finishing my first bss team.
    I started around a Charizard-X Ferrothorn Tapu Fini balanced core and I added Nihilego but I have no idea how to finish this team.

    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Flare Blitz
    - Earthquake/roost/dragon claw (unsure)

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect

    Tapu Fini @ Waterium Z
    Ability: Misty Surge
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Nature's Madness
    - Hydro Pump
    - Moonblast
    - Calm mind/Taunt

    Nihilego @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Power Gem
    - Sludge Wave
    - Grass Knot
    - Psychic
  10. BonesInSpace

    BonesInSpace

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Hi, I've been trying to build a team for a while now. I want to play battle spot singles. I've been using the official smogon website builds. All those builds are super complex. Every build needs a HA or some random move that you can't even get on that Pokémon. So I need some help tweaking my team.

    Tyranitar @ ?
    Ability: sand stream
    Evs /?/?/?/
    Nature:?
    -stealth rock
    -?
    -?
    -?


    Garchomp @ yacht berry
    Ability: rough skin
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Hp
    Nature: jolly
    -sword dance
    -earthquake
    -outrage
    -poison jab


    Swampert @ leftovers
    Ability:torrent
    EVs: 252 Hp/ 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Relaxed
    -ice beam
    -scald
    -earthquake
    -?

    I switched out Lucario for Tyranitar but I haven't come up with a moveset. I also thought about keeping Lucario and adding a Mantine. I thought about a Starmi. I also have a 5 IV houndour


    Houndour
    Ability: flash fire
    Nature: jolly
    -destiny bond
    -sucker punch
    -thunder fang
    -fire fang

    If he fits in. I would like to have him in there. I'm open to all ideas. I would love to use legendary Pokémon. I have trouble getting them .
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  11. Solerme

    Solerme
    is an official Team Rater

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    306
    You definitely need some more tools versus Ground-type attacks.
    Try to add one of these:
    [​IMG] @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Heavy Slam
    - Flamethrower
    - Leech Seed
    - Iron Defense / Protect / Earthquake

    [​IMG] @ Sitrus Berry / Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Pressure
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Toxic
    - Roost

    then imo add a secondary mega, such as Mega Salamence that is usually a great partner for the mons that make team with CharY (such as your Ferrothorn, Nihilego and Fini.)


    [​IMG] @ Salamencite
    Ability: Aerilate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  12. Legolax

    Legolax

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Messages:
    49
    Hey all, with the release of Swampertite, Blazikenite and Sceptilite, I thought of rebuilding a a Rain Team with M-Swampert, which is a pokemon I love.
    And thanks to the new MegaEvolution mechanics, it should check Swift Swim from M-Swampert at the start of the turn, if I'm not mistaken.

    Needing of other 2 pokemons to complete the team for Battle Spot Doubles:

    Swampert @ Swampertite
    Ability: Damp
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Protect

    Just a standard Swampert, I didn't do any calcs yet on the speed (I used to play a 4/252/252 spread in ORAS).

    Pelipper @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Brine
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    Just a standard set from VGC, with Brine to pick up kills on weakened foes. I chose this over Politoed as it lets Swampert fire off EQs with ease, and has access to Tailwind.

    Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - U-turn
    - Knock Off

    Intimidate support and Rock Slide spam. It provides some utility with Knock Off, against annoying pokemons like Cresselia with Lefties, Porygon2 with Eviolite, and such.

    Tapu Koko @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Electric Surge
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Volt Switch
    - Protect

    Tapu Koko can fire off strong Thunders and with Volt Switch it can easily help Lando-T get more intimidates, or free weather resets with Pelipper in the back.
    I went with Air Balloon, as my main attacker has EQ.

    Any ideas on what I could use as fifth and sixth pokemon? I think I need a way to counter grass pokemons, and probably a Taunt user (or give it to Koko), to block Trick Room.
    Is it worth running a second swift swim sweeper like Ludicolo or Kingdra, with their respective Z-Moves?

    Thanks :)
  13. ProjectTitan313

    ProjectTitan313

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,142
    Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn cream everything, Venusaur has has some threat in Pelipper but rainy bird isn't good at living long enough.
    It might sound bizzarre but Soak handles it pretty well, you remove STABs while giving your Koko a dirty smirk.
    Oh, and Freeze-Dry Alola Ninetales, basic bane of any Rain squad.

    SO, comrade, try Kartana. AV might work if you want to keep Sash on rainburd:

    Kartana @ Assault Vest
    Jolly, 92 HP, 164 Sp. Def, 252 Speed
    Ability: Beast Boost

    - Leaf Blade
    - Smart Strike
    - Sacred Sword
    - Psycho Cut

    The spread is the VGC17 set, but should work just fine. STABs are obvious, coverage moves nail Ferro and Venusaur, among other things such as Virizion and opposing Kartana. Also covers your butt on Ninetales. Team already solidly covers Kartana's weak spots. Helps a bit against Koko, not that Swampy or Landog care. AV / Rain help ease fears of random HP Fire and dem Flamethrower Muk.

    Koko almost always wants Thunderbolt, because if you lose weather for a mere turn its pretty fucked with a 50/50 shot on Thunder and Pelliper is gravely disadvantaged at keeping Weather up. TTar, Char-Y, and Ninetales-A all have heavy hits against it and Sun makes Pelipper so useless its not even funny.

    After that you have no resists to Ice or Ghost, which is rough on Landog. Ghost is basically impossible to cover these days, so I tend not to worry too much about the almighty coverage of Aegislash / Mimikyu.
    Trick Room is of course a pain, but you can always drop Araquanid in there for it - few things are more horrifying than Araquanid in TR and Rain. Levitate Bronzong is great at turning TR off too. Slowbro is funny, takes advantage of Terrains, turns off TR, and can bomb Ferrothorn / Venusaur with Flamethrower and Psychic depending on sets.

    Standard Araquanid is probably funniest option. But seriously Kartana should be a grand #5 at least.
  14. Legolax

    Legolax

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Messages:
    49
    Thanks for the input!

    So:

    Tapu Koko @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Electric Surge
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Volt Switch
    - Protect

    Kartana @ Assault Vest
    Jolly, 92 HP, 164 Sp. Def, 252 Speed
    Ability: Beast Boost

    - Leaf Blade
    - Smart Strike
    - Sacred Sword
    - Psycho Cut (didn't know this existed, lol)

    Would Cresselia make any sense as a sixth pokemon? Turns off TR, Icy Wind/Twave can give some speed control in case TW doesn't go up or something bad happens, and eventually it can Helping Hand on EQ-spam or other strong moves.

    Something like that:

    Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
    Relaxed
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (or more SpD investement and lesser Def)
    Psychic
    Trick Room
    Helping Hand
    Ice Beam / Icy Wind (I already have M-Swampert with Ice Punch, but probably extra coverage won't hurt)
  15. ProjectTitan313

    ProjectTitan313

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,142
    I don't see anything wrong with Cress, so why not? :P
    Lemme dig up my old set:

    Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
    Calm, 252 HP, 188 Def, 4 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def, 60 Speed
    Ability: Levitate

    - Psychic
    - Trick Room
    - Helping Hand
    - Icy Wind

    Outruns Jolly Garchomp and the vast 100 Base Speed crowd after 1 Icy Wind, after that she's just fat and annoying.
    Legolax likes this.
  16. Alugia7

    Alugia7

    Joined:
    May 20, 2017
    Messages:
    26
    i am dying more often that i used to from random things, especially the honen megas. I am having a hard time finding out what i need to do.

    Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (why did the ev spreads change on me)
    Adamant Nature
    - King's Shield
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Iron Head
    - Swords Dance
    Iron head is used over sacred sword to kill tapus.


    Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Roost
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance

    Greninja @ Waterium Z
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Dark Pulse
    - Water Shuriken
    Waterium Z is used to bypass protect from blaziken, OHKO charizard-X, and remove half of porygon2's health. Water shuriken is used to break sashes, and kill weakened threats (and blaziken)

    Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpA / 236 Spe
    Lonely Nature
    - Jump Kick
    - Lunge
    - Poison Jab
    - Ice Beam
    236 speed EVs are used because any more is unnesesary. Pheromosa may seem like a duplicate of greninja, but it has multiple specific targets (porygon2, tapus). Jump kick is used over HJK because I kept on getting haxed with HJK.

    Tapu Koko @ Magnet
    Ability: Electric Surge
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Volt Switch/U-turn (still can't decide)
    - Taunt

    Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Flame Charge
    - Flamethrower
    - Solar Beam
    - Air Slash
    I am using charizard-Y to stop rain teams
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  17. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    There are a number of things wrong with this team that could just be optimised before even worrying about the Hoenn megas.

    4 Def on Aegislash should be moved to SpD so that Download Porygon2 gets an attack boost instead. +1 SpA P2 often beats Aegislash that lack Sacred Sword. I'm also not a fan of Swords Dance on Weakness Policy sets since it feels like overkill. Either drop Swords Dance for Sacred Sword, or use another item (there's heaps of options).

    I'm really not a fan of Return on Salamence, only exception is on the SubToxic sets because you don't want to be chipping away at your health with Double-Edge (but people still use DE on those sets to pick off stuff after fewer turns of Toxic). I would swap it for Double-Edge, and maybe even swap Roost for Fire Blast, since being able to beat Ferrothorn etc. without having to pick Charizard Y is good.

    There is literally no viable reason to use Jump Kick over HJK. Ever. Use High Jump Kick. Lunge is also bad on Phero, just use U-turn.

    I'm sorry but Magnet is such a stupid item choice on Koko. The biggest problem with Koko is it's lacklustre SpA stat, which isn't really noticeable when spamming electric moves, but when you want to use Dazzling Gleam you'll find it's really weak. Use Life Orb. I personally prefer U-turn to Volt Switch on Koko because you don't want to give momentum to Ground-types, and your team looks like it struggles with them a lot (what beats Mamoswine here..? I don't think Greninja is super reliable). Grass Knot might also be a good option over Taunt.

    Air Slash is terrible on Zard, it hits nothing relevant harder than Flamethrower. The best thing about Flame Charge is that it then allows you to outspeed Scarf Landorus-T, non-Scarf Garchomp, and Mega Salamence, and bop them with Hidden Power Ice. So use that.

    Now I want to know; how do you beat Mimikyu, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Koko? These are three of the most used mons in the whole format, but i'm struggling to figure it a gameplan against them with this team. The team looks far too offensive, you have nothing to pivot into and gain momentum. With super offensive teams like this you have to either kill what's in front of you or sack something to get into a decent matchup. Since Greninja and Pheromosa are so similar in use, I would advise switching one of them to either Porygon2 or Ferrothorn. However this doesn't improve your matchup against Blaziken, so Tapu Fini / Primarina is also an option. I guess if you replace Greninja go for Fini, and if you replace Phero go for P2 / Ferro.

    edit: lol nelson I didn't even notice that. I hope it was a typo on their end
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  18. Nelson Tangela

    Nelson Tangela

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    I'd add to that that the Aegislash EV spread doesn't match the Aegislash moveset.
  19. Alugia7

    Alugia7

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    cant say

    The aegislah EV spread somehow changed on me (it was supposed to be 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 SpD). Weakness policy and swords dance allows me to get to +4 in one turn and priority-"sweep" the opponent

    I have return over DE because i am not a fan of the recoil, and I have never had a time where the damage boost from DE is necessary. I really dont like the idea of going mixed because it is hard to choose EVs, and it sacrifices the ability to survive some moonblasts/dazzling gleams

    I am running JK over HJK because i was getting way too annoyed with the hax i got from the less accuracy (and multiple other types of hax)

    Greninja is actually very reliable when it comes to mamoswine

    Taunt is used on koko to stop BP teams and the stall that everybody hates

    Air slash is used to stop blaziken that somehow are not killed by greninja (sometimes happens, but not often) and for rain teams to kill a predicted switch into pelliper/politoad

    Phereomosa is on the team because it stops koko, lele, annoyingon2, and it usually works when the opponent's lead is unpredictable (koko and landourus-t)
    Mimikyu is not really a problem, and i think it is very easy to defeat (Mega salamence eats mimikyu for dinner, almost every single one i see uses swords dance when i am using mega salamence, and they lose because they wasted a turn. If they use play rough, it does not do enough damage to KO salamence without crit hax)

    What do people even mean by momentum and piovots?? (I get annoyed when people use strange terminology that they do not bother to define)

    I have an offensive playstyle, and I really don't do well (and don't like) with defensive things. I have tried using them many times, and they all did not work very well.

    The things i normally have problems with are rain teams (it would be nice if there were no honnen megas), hax, and the stall that everybody hates
  20. Altissimo

    Altissimo

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    tbh those terms are extremely common and well-understood in the competitive pokémon community, like extraordinarily so, to the point that it's kind of implicitly assumed that someone who wishes to actually participate in a competitive battling setting will understand what is meant by those terms (and others), because it is inane to expect people to go out of their way to define a common term literally every single time they use it because the possibility exists that the person reading won't recognize it, despite the fact that, as mentioned before, terms like this are extremely commonplace in the competitive battling setting.

    Not to mention that there's a ton of resources here and I'm sure you could find information on them if you looked around the website briefly

    Like this definition of "pivot" from the D/P dictionary (although the meaning hasn't changed):

    Pivot (Defensive / Offensive)
    A pivot is a Pokemon that is generally only used for switching. Due to good defensive stats and a solid defensive typing, they can usually take little damage as they switch in, and the opposing switch they force allows the player to switch again safely to another Pokemon. An offensive pivot will force a switch by threatening KO on the opponent, thus obtaining momentum, whereas a defensive pivot will be difficult to break past, and thus will slow the opponent's momentum.

    And this article on momentum: http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue43/momentum-in-vgc
  21. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    So it looks like you've decided to explain why you're using all the things I've suggested you replace. Does that mean you are unwilling to try any of my suggestions? Because honestly, all those things you want to use are bad. Why post in a teambuilding help thread if you are not interested in giving things a shot and instead argue against everything? Is there anything about the team that you are willing to change? Because I made suggestions for literally everything.

    It's fine that you like to use more offensive Pokemon, but you cannot build a successful team with only offensive Pokemon. I too prefer offensive teams, but you also need some bulk to back them up, otherwise you have literal no way of switching around. What happens when you get a lead matchup wrong? Do you just fire off an attack before being KOed or do you switch into something that takes way too much damage?

    If anything, please do not use Jump Kick on Pheromosa. Just man up and use High Jump Kick, or at the very least Low Kick.
  22. Alugia7

    Alugia7

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    i explained it because some of the changes you suggested would add many threats

    (also, look at the big red text below this)
  23. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
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    You didn't mention any of the new threats when explaining your last post, you explained why you were using them in the first place. Could you please list the things that threaten my version of the team? I'll concede that removing Taunt makes your Ninetales / Eevee matchup worse (which I said in my original post anyway), but Taunt Koko is not a viable answer to Stall.

    Pheromosa is not an answer to Koko and Lele. Poison Jab doesn't OHKO either of them and if your Sash is broken then you auto-lose. My suggestion of Porygon2 does actually remedy this though. So your rebuttal makes no sense there.

    Greninja beats most Mamo in a 1v1 situation, yeah. But you have no switches for it, what do you normally do when you find your Tapu Koko facing a mamoswine? Just Dazzling Gleam it and get KOed in return, and then aim to revenge the Mamo with Gren? Or switch Greninja into an Earthquake?

    As for Return vs Double-Edge; are you saying there's literally never been a time where you've just barely missed a KO with Return? In this replay, Double-Edge would have picked up the KO on Milotic and allowed your Salamence to probably sweep the team. With Roost, the recoil is mostly negligible, especially when you're just OHKOing things.

    You really shouldn't use Air Slash on Charizard, but if you won't replace it with Hidden Power Ice then I see little reason to run Flame Charge. You really should replace Air Slash, but with Air Slash maybe Roost, Substitute, or Overheat are better options over Flame Charge.

    I really think my original suggestions are worth trying though ...

    (btw, I don't see any red text. if you're referring to a signature I can't see it because they don't display on mobile. if this is referring to you not liking quoting then honestly grow up)
  24. Chrono Prodigy

    Chrono Prodigy

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    While I agree the Pheromosa is not an answer to these mons, a LO Naive Pheromosa will have a better matchup versus many Koko and Lele sets and OHKO them, barring some exceptions. Naive LO Phero will be beat by scarf Koko and Timid scarf Lele (not nearly as common as Modest scarf Lele), those with focus sash intact (can be broken by early game u-turn), and I guess the electric seed reflect Koko set solerme posted above in this thread (also pretty uncommon). Losing Phero's sash will also make it pretty vulnerable to priority. However, looking past these negatives, LO gives this mon an immediate boost to its power helping it perform as an early game scout and late game revenge killer, two niches Pheromosa actually fills pretty well. Alugia7 I suggest you give this set a try:

    LO
    Naive
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    High Jump Kick
    U-turn
    Ice Beam
    Poison Jab

    Edit: This thing has paper-thin defenses, so it might not work on your team unless you add some defensive mons that it can switch or u-turn into (going back to cant say's previous points).
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  25. Alugia7

    Alugia7

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    you have suggested replacing pheromosa, but that would make tapus worse, and make the (SO annoying)gon2 a threat, which is the primary reason why i am using phermmosa.

    also, i have tried running ferro and fini before (failed)

    That replay is on a broken, haxed latter. that battle should not have even started (that is the ~15th copy of a horrible battle with a annoying opponent)

    (also there is the red text below the post for a reason)

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