1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Battle Spot Triples

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by MythTrainerInfinity, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    Both Assist Liepard and Meowstic are capable of Fake Out, so in the scenario that you pointed out there are options such as a faster Fake Out, or a full-team Protect and then Quick Guard the next turn. If you're coming from Gen5 Triples, they've buffed Quick Guard so that it can now be used consecutively without a decreased rate of success. In addition to that priority-boosted moves targeting your team from Prankster is now blocked by Quick Guard.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  2. wDro

    wDro

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,125
    Quick guard doesn't not block Assisted moves. I tried it.

    Quick guard can block fake out if the user is faster (same priority bracket) or if used by a prankster.
  3. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    Be careful of Snatch, which is a priority 4 move. It can snatch a Prankster Quick Guard if your mon isn't quick enough.

    Occasionally you'll run into Feint Hitmontop too. Feint really doesn't seem to work well on much else... I bred a 6 IV Infernape to have it do absolutely terrible in Triples.

    I'd use Hitmontop, but I just can't... Its too ugly.

    Even with a Hitmontop's Intimidate Mega Mawile still OHKOs it with Play Rough.

    Just also wanted to mention since Wide Guard Swampert is legal now you can use that too. Using it in conjunction with Follow Me Togekiss doesn't seem too bad an idea either...
  4. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    @ wDro:
    Edit: Prior to this edit, I mixed up some turn mechanics between Assist and Round so disregard that. There is a good number of options and workarounds for existing teams to work against Round teams though. The simplest being S.Def boosting such as via Prankster Light Screen. Whimsicott should be around now so that's a pretty good one, and has access to Encore/Tailwind. And if you run Charizard-Y or Drought Ninetales then Cherrim is a possible consideration for a x1.5 S.Def boost spread for your field. MythTrainerInfinity mentioned Togekiss Follow Me probably not as a response, but it's something to think about if you've got one on your team. Focus Sash can also be used to take care of the 240BP hitter probably coming from Mega Gardevoir. Priority moves are a bit predictable, but if they're using Quick Guard then they wont reach the 240BP anyways so Bullet Punch / Shadow Sneak / Bisharp Sucker Punch are things that can be used against Round teams. I would find it hard to believe (without alternating teams) that a team of Rounds would make it anywhere beyond 1.7k. Something as simple as convinient match-ups could easily take the advantage against Round teams, with Round being limited to Normal/Fairy as a Special Attack and, from what you mentioned, the only attack at their disposal. If Quick Guard doesn't work, common options like Fake Out as I mentioned still does. And if they're using Quick Guard to your Fake Out, then they're using one less Round that turn and are vulnerable to Encore Whimsicott.



    @ MythTrainerInfinity:
    Yeah Swampert now has a reason to carry around Wide Guard thanks to the buff. I never found a reason to give it Wide Guard in Gen5 because of the old mechanics which leaves it too predictable as to when Wide Guard wouldn't be used. This is pretty much what I had on mine for DPHGSS Doubles and Gen5 Triples:

    [​IMG]
    Adamant Swampert @ Soft Sand
    - Avalanche
    - Earthquake
    - Hammer Arm
    - Protect

    Fitting in Waterfall as another option was too difficult for my team composition back then so that was out of the question. Now Wide Guard is definitely a greater consideration for Swampert where it otherwise wouldn't be in Gen5, but it also stands to reason that spread moves are less populated now than in Gen5 in return so that's also something to consider.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  5. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    Speaking of Round... I just found out that there's a way to get around Quick Guard without using Feint.

    Priority Round. How is that possible? Prankster Assist. Meowstic and Liepard.

    Quick Guard will block the Prankster Assist Round, but any other Round will hit. I just fought a Japanese player who used this. PM me for the replay if you want to see it. Not gonna post my current season team on Smogon (learned my lesson last time...).
    Guilan likes this.
  6. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    Ah, so that's what wDro meant when he mentioned that Quick Guard does not block Prankster Assist, I thought he meant that the Assist move itself went past Quick Guard entirely. If that's the case the team would only achieve a max of 120 instead of 240. Since that's how it works all that was mentioned should help even more so than if it were 240, and should open up more options.
  7. Kyrmaal

    Kyrmaal

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Concerning Round, is it proven that the third one in the turn has a 240 power ?
    I did some tests with three identical pokémons and a single target, and it seems the third one did nearly the same amount of damage as the second one. So I thought the BP would be 60/120/120.
    I'm interested in any link or VS Recorder video showing me I'm wrong ^^.
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,326
    So, Triples is pretty much the only metagame that feels like an enigma to team build for at the moment for me, but I'm very interested in Round shenigans. I've heard stuff about Prankster Assist in this thread, but Im wondering, is it worth it to destroy your coverage for that? Also, what are some good mons to look into to support a Round team? Obviously stuff like Sylveon is a given, but I'm more curious about the rest of the team.
  9. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    It really is up to the player. I personally have not gotten aROUND to making a Round team yet.

    I have seen a bunch of interesting sets though...

    The other day someone used a Quick Feet Jolteon with a Flame Orb against me in Rain. The Jolteon used Round followed by something else. I think Wigglytuff would be a good poke to use in Round as well due to Competitive. Someone used that against me and well if you have played me you know I use two Intimidators. So, yeah...

    Thus far I have seen... Aurous, Mega Garde, Sylveon, Greninja, Crobat, Jolteon, Wigglytuff, Weavile, Porygon-Z, Audino, I think Mega Pinsir iirc?, perhaps Blissey too?, and probably some others I can't remember on Round teams.

    Talonflame is such a quick killer too...I really need to train up one of those.
  10. BlakDragon

    BlakDragon

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    193
    Round granted priority by prankster assist looks so evil. I need me one of those team set ups pronto.

    As strange as this may sound, Noctowl can theoretically be a good Round user.
    Why? Noctowl carries not only the STAB bonus but the ability Tinted Lens,
    which lets it hit the steel types that resist all usable types of Round, for non-resisted damage.
    (normal of course, flying via Aerilate, ice via Refrigerate, fairy via Pixilate).
    It also carries Mirror Move, a situational attack that can be used if need be and can't be called by Assist. That's a thing I guess.

    btw Nintendo Direct in about 40 minutes, don't forget!
  11. dkkc19

    dkkc19

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2014
    Messages:
    372
    So many teams using U Turn-Mat Block Greninja.
  12. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    Greninja is good, its just not as fast as mons that have Swift Swim/Chlorophyll/Choice Scarfers/or after Tailwind. Then its frailty becomes a liability. Not to mention Trick Room is still dangerous. I used one in Season 1, but it did not nearly do as well you'd think.

    Can make a decent Round user, though...
  13. dkkc19

    dkkc19

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2014
    Messages:
    372
    Not to mention that Greninja is becoming very predictable these days. I don't think I faced one team that doesn't run Ice Beam on Greninja.

    This happened with me way too many times: My Gliscor versus a Greninja. I predict an Ice-Beam so I switch out and send in choice scarf Tyranitar and 1hko Greninja with Stone Edge on the next turn.
  14. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    I would say that it's not worth using Prankster Assist Rounds, and I think I might've touched on some points in this thread where it becomes undesirable. If you've taken interest in using Round perhaps the better approach is to use about a half-Round team to leave your options open. Aurorus has the potential to use Round as a faster Ice attack with Refrigerate. But outside of Round Aurorus might just become a liability.



    @ dkkc19:
    I think the biggest trouble players have with using Greninja is that they think that it should be the exception to not having Protect. Mat Block does create some openings depending on the opponent but it seems less practical to give up Protect for it especially if you're running Ice Beam which leaves an opening for switch-ins using priority weaknesses. Mat Block is mostly one-dimensional. This is pretty much my thought process when I gave Greninja Protect for the upcoming XY Beta Tournament.
  15. vBlue

    vBlue

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    28
    I've gotten really good success with a general rain team. Leading with Politoed, Gastrodon, and Ludicolo with Thundurus, Kingdra, and M-Scizor in the back. All of their sets are pretty typical for a rain team with a few specific features.

    Gastrodon is by far the most important member of the team. I run Sassy with 0 speed IVs and invested in Def and SpD with Assault Vest. With his speed he's almost always last anyways so I figured I'd go for something against Trick Room teams. Keeping him alive to make the most out of Storm Drain boosts is critical and I find he hits really hard with no investment into damage hence the stat allocation and item. Fake Out on Ludicolo and Encore on Politoed help keep him going even longer. If I predict a grass move I can swap in Scizor, otherwise I Muddy Water/ Scald if I'm against a Wide Guard user.

    I want to replace something in the back with Toxicroak. If Gastrodon falls I find I have a hard time working around Surf hitting allies, so another absorber would be great. Healing 5/8 health per turn would be pretty solid, although I'm unsure just how bulky I can get him and still put out damage.

    I've notice a lot of NA players run Dark Void Smeargle which is insanely annoying. A lot of them even run it with stuff like M-Kanga and Talonflame and any combination of Pokemon from the top 10 usage on Smogon. I can generally beat them unless I get very unlucky though. NA players also really like using Safeguard then Swaggering their own heavy hitter, but it's usually limited to QuakeEdge users which rain tends to walk all over.

    JP players on the other hand all seem to use a similar core, especially as you get around the 2k mark. Cresselia, Hitmontop, and Heatran are on just about all the teams, and they are often the 3 that lead as well. Cresselia usually has Trick Room and Helping Hand, with Hitmontop running Fake Out and Wide Guard. It's not too bad to beat normally, but when they run Abomasnow in this set up I have huge issues with managinga win. My main answer to Abomasnow is M-Scizor, but I feel I need to put another answer in my team for it. The fact that it clears rain when it enters and when it Mega Evolves is very troublesome. Getting rain back up isn't a huge problem as I run a few Rain Dancers to beat CharY anyways, but I can still fall behind quick without M-Scizor.
  16. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    If I were you I'd lead with Kingdra as well... With Helping Hand from Politoed... Everything will die unless they are immune to Water attacks or are a Chansey or a Blissey and the opponent will not be fast enough to do anything unless they too have a Kingdra.

    I've been considering raising a team with Meowstic or Hitmontop/Kingdra/Politoed leads.

    I might have something interesting to say at the end of the season...
  17. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    Hitmontop can be quite fun to use in Triples, I run it with Eject Button on mine. I wonder which one of my games it wandered off to though, it's like it just mysteriously disappeared even though I had two different ones.

    Someone should aim for Top 10 with an NA copy of the game, its been quite a while since I've seen players maining on an NA copy of the games hit anywhere near the Top 10 by the season-end. But it always brought a smile to my face whenever I saw someone hit the top ranks in gen5.
  18. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    Guess what? Unless someone blares past 1883 I'll be the top US player of Triples of the season. And the top US player overall...

    I have a littttttle gift for you guys who wanna see what high level triple battles are like... http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/user/Z-575-5273-M/battle/ I enabled vids. So yeah, enjoy.
  19. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    What I meant was Top 10 without excluding others, as the core players are usually the ones with high ranks. I don't think the gen5 records can be retained anymore, but only perhaps a handful of players using a North American copy of the game had reached anywhere near or at the Top 10 before, which is what I'd like to see other players reach once more. I think it's also pretty clear that players have 3DS consoles from Japan as well while residing in the US, but the number of players that use PGL with them is unknown as I was able to use the Masuda Method with two North American copies with one started in English and one started in Japanese early onto XY's release (so a 3DS console from Japan isn't needed to do this anymore). What does make me wonder though is whether copies of XY from Japan has a higher probability of running into players with JPN 3DS consoles.


    Regardless of the filter, it is still an achievement to have reached #1 in the US so congrats on that as you've done well.
    In gen5 I was more interested in seeing how far I could reach beyond simply my own region, otherwise it wasn't interesting enough for me considering the US playerbase favors singles. However I lost any push I had to playing when I consistently ran into US players even during JPN prime time hours or just running into lower ranks too often, which I thought they had stated would not happen with rank filters.
    It would also seem that nobody using an NA copy of the game will hit 2k on any of the battle modes this season, but perhaps next season.
  20. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    If I can get a good Trick Cressy, decent Landlorus, and maybeeee a good Terrakion I think I'd have a shot.

    Safeguard protects against all forms of status with the exception of self-statusing, aka Tricking Flame Orb...
  21. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    I don't remember about Landorus, but I was struggling with getting a Tornadus with a decent spread not too long ago so I just settled for IVs that would work. It may or may not become available later from XY events but the drawback is that Heat Wave is an unavailable move tutor in XY.

    Cresselia, if memory serves me right, is one of the very few Pokemon that can act very well as a tank in Triples. But I think I also remember times where I felt like I could just completely ignore Cresselia and take out everything else. I'm not sure if anything about it changed this gen though, I haven't looked at the updated move list.
  22. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    Cresselia gets Moonblast this gen, so that means if you run a Flame Orb Set you can essentially decrease the opponent's Attack and Special Attack.

    I'm the type of guy who will (with proper prediction) send in Flame Orb Cressy against Tyranitar.

    And what do you know someone else in the U.S. got to 1923 in Triples...
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  23. SionReaver

    SionReaver

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    If this isn't the right thread for this, just shoot me a PM or let me know and I'll delete/edit.

    I've really liking triples so far, wish the format was supported but I can wait. The opening post has helped a lot; but I still have a lot to learn. My main problem is, and I wonder if I'm the only one I get so many 'ideas' of how teams could work together with their abilities, move pool and typing(Usually, I run by Serebii to see a Pokemon's stats, movepool and egg moves and go from there). Half the time it doesn't work out but its breathed some new life in my favorites and I've had a lot of fun. Heal pulse seems like a good move in triples, and ironically like a poster suggested Luvdisk might make a decent user of it due to speed and people focus on more dangerous threats. Have to test it myself though.

    I'm going to throw one of such teams I made, its admittingly not the best but has done okay. Some members need to be tweaked(like my Klefki)

    Lorom (Klefki) Quite nature., I can't recall the exact EV's but a split between special and physical defense and in somewhere else.
    Item: Light Clay
    Ability: Prankster
    Light Screen/Relfect/Safeguard/Swagger

    Arluin(Braviary) Max attack and speed. Adamant nature
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Defiant
    Brave Bird/Roost/Protect/Tailwind

    Medicham(Champ) Adamant Nature. Max attack and speed.
    Item: Medichamite
    Ability: Pure Power
    Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch/High Jump Kick/Detect

    Paname(Seaking) Adamant Nature. Max Attack, rest split between HP and speed mainly if I recall.
    Item: Left Overs
    Ability: Lighting Rod
    Megahorn/Agility/Aqua Tail/Protect

    Orian(Rapidash) Adamant Nature. Max ATK/SPD
    Item: Air Balloon
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Mega Horn/Flare Blitz/Morning Sun/Protect

    Whimsicott. Mild nature. Mostly speed and some other odd EV's.
    Item: Mental Herb
    Ability: Prankster
    Charm/Tailwind/Trick Room/Moon Blast and or Giga Drain

    If you haven't guessed, Klefki boost my attackers by safeguard and swagger. Braviary is able to snipe targets from a distance and set up tailwind. Medicham soley exist to murder things. Seaking is both a attacker, and take electrical shots away from the team. Often times people forget about that ability in most cases; Agility is used when I feel its safe to do so. However, I kind feel its a waste at times because many matches after my first Tailwind went down, my second went up and lasted the entire match.

    Rapidash does a good job of soaking up fire and getting a free boost on the switch most of the time. I should change Mega Horn to Wildcharge for coverage I suppose but surprisingly helped me in a lot of games more then Wildcharge has. Whimsicott is just..kinda there. Sure they've helped with Tailwind support or messing up Trick Room by resetting it to normal while others protect but other then that? Kinda dead weight.

    Here's a showcase of the team, I made a lot of bad plays and have no excuse. One of my first mistakes was underestimating them; usually on free battle spot people who have all legendary teams aren't as skilled and just rely on raw power and stats to do the job without much else. This wasn't really entirely the case this time as they actually switch and the like instead of letting things die. Kinda knew I was in trouble when I saw they had like a thousand or so eggs. Granted, the Pokemon I use aren't the strongest so that's a factor but still felt I could have played a bit better then I had.

    8F3G-WWWW-WWW5-RN5F

    Constructive criticism as always is welcomed.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  24. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    @SionReaver:
    At the moment this thread, taking from the title, should be just about anything Triples-related.

    I have an exam tomorrow so I'll go through things briefly from what I see. If you're using Klefki for those moves, why not take in a Meowstic instead? Klefki could potentially have highlight moments in Doubles, but in Triples the 2x Fire and Ground weaknesses could really get to you. And for the types that Klefki does resist chances are that they'll target you accordingly when they see your team of 6 prior to the match. Meowstic doesn't have those popular weaknesses coming from most threats found in Triples. It's giving up a lot of x0.5 resistances but other than Rock Slide you probably won't see it right off the bat nor would Klefki be the target of them. Klefki will also fall short on being slower than Meowstic when it comes to utilizing Safeguard/Swagger.


    I skimmed through the paragraphs below your team composition but could you do a writeup of the following?
    • Write up the main idea that you're going for and any supporting ideas to your main idea
    • Include how your team of 6 falls into place with these ideas
    • If your team is by some chance centered around some key Pokemon that may be worth mentioning too
    I do see that two of your users have Tailwind but that Tailwind probably won't help much with so many light hitters outside of your Defiant-boosted Braviary and Mega Medicham. Having Roost on Braviary seems a bit odd considering your team composition, so why not take advantage of the fact that it learns Rock Slide? Tailwind probably won't be used by Braviary out of the fear that it may take heavy hits or faint which isn't compensated by the rest of your team, so you could have something else here as well.

    The biggest note I should probably give is to not have both Klefki and Whimsicott as they are both centralized on Prankster here. Healing and self-boosting moves are also only utilized when you can make room for it, as you somewhat touched on and is probably not a good enough of a reason to take up slots where something else can be utilized better.


    Going full circle here, consider doing what I bulleted and that should help you get started. It's really more helpful for you when you're going through the thought process than it is helpful for us to give feedback on the writeup. In addition to that, consider this:
    • What are some other Pokemon that can also support these ideas effectively
    • Do any of them pose as a better option against common threats?
  25. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    797
    There were a few teams in Season one and even fewer in Season two that had both Meowstic and Klefki with Safeswag. A very very dangerous combo if you aren't prepared for it.

    However, Rage Powder and Follow Me work wonders on that and Justified/Beat Up combos.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)