Battle Tower Frustration

[greentyphlosion]

So I've been repeatedly attempting the Battle Tower on Emerald for weeks now, and I still can't get to 70 wins. It's really frustrating me. I've created a seemingly perfect team, and still I can't get past 60~ wins. So I'm appealing for some help with my team and strategy. Any tips and criticism would be greatly appreciated.

My team and its basic strategy is as follows:

Slaking @ Choice Band (Adamant)
252 Attack/Speed, 6 HP
Double-Edge
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Shadow Ball

The central player of the team, he really doesn't need much introduction. Nine times out of ten Slaking can OHKO the AI's first Pokemon, giving me an instant 3-2 lead. Moves are standard, and I initially ran Body Slam, then Return, before realising the increased power from Double-Edge helps to score KOs on bulky things like Kingdra and Venusaur.

Metagross @ Lum Berry (Adamant)
58 HP, 200 Attack, 252 Speed
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Agility
Explosion

Boring, but handy. General idea is to come in after Slaking and KO as much as it can. Usually I just Explode on things, but occasionally it can set up on something that can't hurt it and try to sweep. I find Metagross to be the most expendable member of the team, and often it ends up being sacrificed to set up a switch. Lum Berry blocks random statuses which could shut it down.

Starmie @ Leftovers (Timid)
252 Special Attack/Speed, 6 HP
Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Psychic

Again, boring, but Starmie is brilliant. The moves are standard, as is the nature. Leftovers gives it a bit of bulk. Starmie can kill whatever the other two have trouble with, and switches in easily on defensive stuff like Shuckle and Vaporeon.

So far, this team has only had real trouble with legends. I got beaten twice by Curse Regirock, and got outsped by Latios. Double Teamers are tricky too, but I haven't had as much trouble with them as I'd expected. Any general advice on this team? I can't find a fault with it and I'm tearing my hair out trying to get a Gold Symbol from Anabel!

 

[Deleted User 33526]

This thread might be of assistance to you: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102593

 

[Zabel Zarock]

This thread might be of assistance to you: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102593

He's looking for help for Gen 3's Battle Tower not Gen 5's Battle Subway unfortunately. He won't have the benefits of Multiscale Dragonite or Traunt Durant but we'll make do with what we got.

So the problem is basically legendaries huh?

Slaking has the base stats to be Uber but its ability keeps it from rising up to the top of the game. I don't see nothing wrong with him though, other than his ability. If you make good use of a turn wasted more power to ya.

As for Metagross and Starmie, they work hand in hand with each other. Starmie covers Metagross' fire/ground weakness while Metagross can take Electric and Grass attacks. But the only thing I think is kind of wrong is their typing is almost similar to each other. Its kind of redundant if you were to think about it. And what's really the problem is that you have a legendary problem. So maybe sneak in a legendary or two in? There's some good legendaries like CroCune and Zapdos. Its fair game right?

But I'm only giving random suggestions. I guess its best to ignore this since I'm still rather new to this.

 

[Perfect Cell]

First and foremost, I like your team, I think it's pretty good. The only suggestions I'd make is switching up items for Starmie and Metagross. Metagross is probably better at taking hits than Starmie and Starmie probably hates status more than Metagross.

Another suggestion is swapping out Agility for Brick Break, as it gives you some more coverage and another attacking move.

Finally, don't give up! It took me 4 months to beat the Tower, but I finally did it a few days ago. Keep going!

 

[Chou Toshio]

Using legendaries isn't the answer to beating legendaries... legendary status has nothing to do with this...

In Battle Tower, you are going to get haxed long-run, so you want to take advantage of your main advantages over the computer: Being able to switch and setup.

The most efficient, reliable strategy isn't to try and power-house your way through the foes-- it's to use the computer's overall poor play, lack of switching, and lack of strategy to your advantage; using the computer's inefficiency to procure lasting advantage to buffer against luck and ensure a victory-- in other words, you want to set up and sweep. Cripple their first mon (even if it means sacking your first), create a demi-god by setting up all over their crippled mon, and then sweep with an overwhelming stat advantage (and substitute protection).

In DPPt, THE way to get up the battle tower is through the ability to trick Choice Scarf to the opponent, then setup a devastating sweeper to +6 stats + Substitutes-- netting yourself overwhelming advantage and a buffer against hax.

This is a lot harder in ADV considering the only Choice item is Choice Band, and all the users of it are very frail physically. However, moves like Flash / Sand Attack / Charm / Screens / Thunder Wave are still excellent tools to help you set up.

Latias and Jirachi are both fast, bulky, and possess a number of these annoying / inhibiting moves. Moreover, they having typings with lots of resistances and only few key weaknesses-- so pick teammates that can easily switch in on these weaknesses. Have Latias / Jirachi annoy and setup, then have a powerful sweeper like DD TTar or CM Raikou ready to set up all over the disabled foe. Use this type of strategy after the first 40-50 battles, and you should climb with a lot more reliability.



When you're playing have a list of all the pokemon that exist in the battle tower, so you can be aware of what types of sets and dangers they present. If you're REALLY obsessed, make sure to take notes on how these pokemon react to your teammates-- especially your lead.

As you can tell, I'm not too familiar with Emerald's battle tower (I have gotten past 100 in DPP's though)-- but I think these basic tips will be a big help. Hopefully someone with more ADV experience will chime in.

 

[Satisfaction]

One thing of note even though its not as useful as 5th gen Sturdy does allow you to block ohko moves. Skarmory running a toxic rest protect set can probably aid you with a toxic support to beat the walls that annoy Slaking. It would be best as a replacement for meta as they are both of the steel type and skarm can take the status' nearly as well as metagross since it can rest it off. Out of curiosity why isnt Slaking running Hyper beam, from looking at your team it doesnt seem like you are switching alot and just have slaking to kill something which it can do more effectively with a stronger attack. Aerial Ace always hits but its really weak, if your using it for the sure hit keep it but if not replace with fire blast even with an off nature and no sp atk investment its a better option since it deals more damage to skarm than any of your other moves and still kills hera and breloom the only notable pokemon that aerial ace outdamages hyper beam for

 

[greentyphlosion]

He's looking for help for Gen 3's Battle Tower not Gen 5's Battle Subway unfortunately. He won't have the benefits of Multiscale Dragonite or Traunt Durant but we'll make do with what we got.

So the problem is basically legendaries huh?

Slaking has the base stats to be Uber but its ability keeps it from rising up to the top of the game. I don't see nothing wrong with him though, other than his ability. If you make good use of a turn wasted more power to ya.

As for Metagross and Starmie, they work hand in hand with each other. Starmie covers Metagross' fire/ground weakness while Metagross can take Electric and Grass attacks. But the only thing I think is kind of wrong is their typing is almost similar to each other. Its kind of redundant if you were to think about it. And what's really the problem is that you have a legendary problem. So maybe sneak in a legendary or two in? There's some good legendaries like CroCune and Zapdos. Its fair game right?

But I'm only giving random suggestions. I guess its best to ignore this since I'm still rather new to this.

I actually did initally run CroCune instead of Starmie, but I found it incredibly difficult: it was slow and always seemed to get haxed. Starmie is preferred as barely anything outspeeds it and it's bulky enough to survive 2 or sometimes 3 hits.

I'm not convinced on Metagross though; but Explosion is extremely useful to get rid of stat boosters and the like. Not sure what would be better.

First and foremost, I like your team, I think it's pretty good. The only suggestions I'd make is switching up items for Starmie and Metagross. Metagross is probably better at taking hits than Starmie and Starmie probably hates status more than Metagross.

Another suggestion is swapping out Agility for Brick Break, as it gives you some more coverage and another attacking move.

Finally, don't give up! It took me 4 months to beat the Tower, but I finally did it a few days ago. Keep going!

Are you sure about the items? I've generally found Starmie prefers having Leftovers, as it helps it last longer against weaker things that can't hurt it. Random statuses tend to stop Metagross cold (paralysis in particular really shuts down Agility). Also, Starmie has Natural Cure, so statuses aren't as much of an issue for it.

Not to veto your advice or anything, but this is just what I've found to be the case over multiple runs through the Tower.

Using legendaries isn't the answer to beating legendaries... legendary status has nothing to do with this...

In Battle Tower, you are going to get haxed long-run, so you want to take advantage of your main advantages over the computer: Being able to switch and setup.

The most efficient, reliable strategy isn't to try and power-house your way through the foes-- it's to use the computer's overall poor play, lack of switching, and lack of strategy to your advantage; using the computer's inefficiency to procure lasting advantage to buffer against luck and ensure a victory-- in other words, you want to set up and sweep. Cripple their first mon (even if it means sacking your first), create a demi-god by setting up all over their crippled mon, and then sweep with an overwhelming stat advantage (and substitute protection).

In DPPt, THE way to get up the battle tower is through the ability to trick Choice Scarf to the opponent, then setup a devastating sweeper to +6 stats + Substitutes-- netting yourself overwhelming advantage and a buffer against hax.

This is a lot harder in ADV considering the only Choice item is Choice Band, and all the users of it are very frail physically. However, moves like Flash / Sand Attack / Charm / Screens / Thunder Wave are still excellent tools to help you set up.

Latias and Jirachi are both fast, bulky, and possess a number of these annoying / inhibiting moves. Moreover, they having typings with lots of resistances and only few key weaknesses-- so pick teammates that can easily switch in on these weaknesses. Have Latias / Jirachi annoy and setup, then have a powerful sweeper like DD TTar or CM Raikou ready to set up all over the disabled foe. Use this type of strategy after the first 40-50 battles, and you should climb with a lot more reliability.

When you're playing have a list of all the pokemon that exist in the battle tower, so you can be aware of what types of sets and dangers they present. If you're REALLY obsessed, make sure to take notes on how these pokemon react to your teammates-- especially your lead.

As you can tell, I'm not too familiar with Emerald's battle tower (I have gotten past 100 in DPP's though)-- but I think these basic tips will be a big help. Hopefully someone with more ADV experience will chime in.

What about Alakazam? It's the fastest Trick user I can think of, but like you said, it's very frail. Don't have access to Jirachi unfortunately, and the only Latias I have is from my Sapphire (so it has awful IVs and a terrible nature).

I'm using this list of Battle Tower Pokemon btw, which is brilliant and an amazing site in general for info on how the Frontier works. http://www.upokecenter.com/games/emerald/guides/bfpokemon.php

One thing of note even though its not as useful as 5th gen Sturdy does allow you to block ohko moves. Skarmory running a toxic rest protect set can probably aid you with a toxic support to beat the walls that annoy Slaking. It would be best as a replacement for meta as they are both of the steel type and skarm can take the status' nearly as well as metagross since it can rest it off. Out of curiosity why isnt Slaking running Hyper beam, from looking at your team it doesnt seem like you are switching alot and just have slaking to kill something which it can do more effectively with a stronger attack. Aerial Ace always hits but its really weak, if your using it for the sure hit keep it but if not replace with fire blast even with an off nature and no sp atk investment its a better option since it deals more damage to skarm than any of your other moves and still kills hera and breloom the only notable pokemon that aerial ace outdamages hyper beam for

I generally switch after the first kill unless it's something Slaking doesn't mind being out against for a free turn. Aerial Ace is weak but it's a huge help against Double Teamers and also a guaranteed hit against weakened opponents. Hyper Beam is good but means I can't switch, and I don't want to risk it and be stuck out against something like Machamp or Latios. It's also slightly less accurate than Double-Edge, and I think the difference in power doesn't matter too much, as I've been able to kill everything I needed to with Double-Edge.

 

[Perfect Cell]

Are you sure about the items? I've generally found Starmie prefers having Leftovers, as it helps it last longer against weaker things that can't hurt it. Random statuses tend to stop Metagross cold (paralysis in particular really shuts down Agility). Also, Starmie has Natural Cure, so statuses aren't as much of an issue for it.

Not to veto your advice or anything, but this is just what I've found to be the case over multiple runs through the Tower.

What about Alakazam? It's the fastest Trick user I can think of, but like you said, it's very frail. Don't have access to Jirachi unfortunately, and the only Latias I have is from my Sapphire (so it has awful IVs and a terrible nature).

I suppose you do have a point, I forgot Starmie had Natural Cure, but I'm still certain on Brick Break > Agility.

I have tried the Trick Strategy with Alakazam and I can say that it did not work for me at all. I could not get past round 40 because I'd get killed when I switched out.

Also, Jirachi is banned in the Frontier. If it wasn't, I'd be done the Frontier a long time ago.

I'm using this list of Battle Tower Pokemon btw, which is brilliant and an amazing site in general for info on how the Frontier works. http://www.upokecenter.com/games/eme.../bfpokemon.php

Hozu has made a spreadsheet of that data in Excel if you want. It even shows their stats, not just their EV's.

If you want, though I don't suppose it's much help, I could tell you my team that I used to beat the Tower. It was pretty consistent, got to 50 wins the first try then 103 the second time(Which includes beating Anabel).

 

[greentyphlosion]

I suppose you do have a point, I forgot Starmie had Natural Cure, but I'm still certain on Brick Break > Agility.

I have tried the Trick Strategy with Alakazam and I can say that it did not work for me at all. I could not get past round 40 because I'd get killed when I switched out.

Also, Jirachi is banned in the Frontier. If it wasn't, I'd be done the Frontier a long time ago.



Hozu has made a spreadsheet of that data in Excel if you want. It even shows their stats, not just their EV's.

If you want, though I don't suppose it's much help, I could tell you my team that I used to beat the Tower. It was pretty consistent, got to 50 wins the first try then 103 the second time(Which includes beating Anabel).

Sure, I'd be happy to read about your team; it's always helpful.

I'll swap Agility for Brick Break then. To be honest I've not been using it that much, but it sometimes helps to outspeed faster opponents. Metagross beats most bulky things with 252 EVs in Speed anyway though.

That spreadsheet's fab, thanks!

 

[Perfect Cell]

Sure, I'd be happy to read about your team; it's always helpful.

Alright, I'll send over a PM in a moment.

 

[greentyphlosion]

Yes! Just got the Gold Ability Symbol. SO happy!