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Beast in form of Arcanine

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by pwnage77, Aug 19, 2012.

?

Which is a better Scarfer for my team?

  1. Victini

    38.5%
  2. Flygon

    61.5%
  1. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    It's been a while since I've made a UU team and this one's successful so far. It needs some help though. The thing is, I'm a huge fan of Fire-types especially Arcanine. Arcanine has been my fave since Gen 1. Now I've made a team specifically made to support an Arcanine sweep and to counter Arcanine's enemies. Also, IMO, Arcanine actually doesn't need much support apart from weakening walls and Rapid Spin support as it is quite capable of taking down some walls on its own.

    Note: I am in PO server and in their tiers, Roserade is BL so please refrain from suggesting that Pokemon. I know it is good but then if I ever use it, I'll be stuck in OU.





    Team Building Process
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Well like I said in the beginning, Arcanine is my fave poke and so I decided to make a team around him.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    So the next team that came into my mind was to take out Arcanine's usual counters namely Slowbro, Milotic, Rhyperior and Suicune. Shaymin was added to the mix as it gets rid of the said counters in an instant. Like I said earlier, Roserade is BL. Though there are things that Shaymin can boast that Roserade doesn't have. I'll mention them later.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    So this time, I wanted something to kill certain threats. Azumarill quickly found its way into my team boasting an attack stat that rivals those in Ubers. I needed Azumarill to get rid of things like Chandelure and Mienshao. And so my FGW core was finished.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Since Arcanine's a Fire-type, I obviously needed a Spinner. I am the type of guy who likes to have a spinner and a Stealth Rocker in one Pokemon as the team slots are limited. Claydol was the first thing that came into my mind so I chose him.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now I need a revenge killer, a Pokemon who can bash holes into my opponent's team and another Fire-type to go with Arcanine as it is recommended by the Strategy dex. I'm not a fan of Darmanitan so I went for Victini. Victini also has the perk of being faster and bulkier :P

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    And now, I needed someone who can set up and sweep as sometimes, Life Orb or Pure Power wasn't enough. Raikou was the best man for the job. Mismagius could be a choice but then I needed a few qualities for a set up sweeper. I'll mention them all later.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I switched Victini for Flygon as Kingdra is just a huge problem for my team. It can still revenge kill Heracross with Fire Punch and is still a threat to most teams. The loss of so much power of V-create will be missed but dual STAB in form of Earthquake and Outrage is just fine.


    Now let's get on with the team :]





    Beast in form of Arcanine






    [​IMG]
    Tony (Flygon) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Outrage
    ~ U-turn
    ~ Fire Punch

    Revenge killer, scout, and virtually immune to entry hazards. These are the traits that describe Flygon and with the said descriptions, it fits my team well. It decreases the need for Rapid Spin and allows me to freely spam U-turn giving my Arcanine a free switch. Earthquake is my main STAB providing solid power and accuracy while not locking me in one move. Outrage however, is more powerful and is only used late-game for cleaning. U-turn is for scouting and gives my members free switches. Fire Punch is for Steel-types brave enough to switch in on me. Flygon is more lenient than Victini as it can easy flit in and out the battle without the pressure of Stealth Rock. Overall, a good support Pokemon.





    [​IMG]
    Little Focker (Shaymin) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    ~ Seed Flare
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Air Slash
    ~ Rest

    Shaymin may appear to be outclassed by Roserade anytime soon. But fret not as Shaymin's coverage moves mean that it isn't totally outclassed. Shaymin happens to be faster as well and speed is usually game-changing. Seed Flare is a good STAB and is powerful. It has a good chance to give foes a -2 SpD. After that, any other move will finish them off. Earth Power is mainly for Raikou as Steel-types are afraid of my team since I have two powerful Fire-types. Air Slash is chosen over HP Fire / Ice because Heracross is a huge threat especially Scarfed variants. Rest is for additional longevity as Shaymin is bulky enough to survive a hit and hit back hard. Like I said earlier, Shaymin is my primary answer to bulky waters as most of them fail to do significant damage to me.





    [​IMG]
    Incredible (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    ~ Aqua Jet
    ~ Return
    ~ Waterfall
    ~ Superpower

    Here's the imaginary script of what me and my opponent would say:
    Opponent: GG man. I outspeed your whole team
    Me: No man Aqua Jet
    O: what?
    M: Aqua Jet
    O: Oh Aqua Jet

    And here starts the story of the Incredible Azumarill. The one who matches the power of the Green Beast, *cough Hulk cough* Rayquaza. So, my next revenge killer and answer to things like Chandelure and Rhyperior. Return just provides solid coverage with my Water STAB and will hit everything hard. Superpower is there to kill Snorlax cause it's just so fucking annoying and it should be OU or at least BL. I didn't go for Ice Punch since I already have too much for Grass-types and can I say more? I don't think so.





    [​IMG]
    Arcanine @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    ~ Flare Blitz
    ~ ExtremeSpeed
    ~ Wild Charge
    ~ Close Combat

    If you have been observant, Arcanine is the only thing that doesn't have a nickname in my team. So here's the thing. I like Arcanine and its name is already cool. No need to change or whatever. Flare Blitz is a solid STAB option and wrecks balls all over the place. ExtremeSpeed for priority as I have chosen Adamant nature and a lot will outspeed me so ES is mandatory. Wild Charge obviously for bulky waters the try to sponge a Flare Blitz. Though Swampert is still a major problem, I have Shaymin for that. Close Combat is for anything else resisting my moves namely Rock- and Water-types.





    [​IMG]
    -.- (Claydol) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Relaxed
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Rapid Spin
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Beam

    Ok the nickname's kinda weird but hey I like it. It's actually the eyes of a Claydol if you look closely. Since I like a Stealth Rocker and a spinner all in one, there you go Claydol. Well I really have no other purpose for Claydol or whatsoever so I'll end it here.





    [​IMG]
    Beast (Raikou) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 128 HP / 76 Def / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Hidden Power [Ice]

    SO HERE WE GO TO THE GLUE. Raikou is just so powerful and I'm wondering why it isn't OU. BST total's just at OU standards just like Arcanine. Speed? Base 115 fuckers. It's blazing fast speed and sky-high special attack just makes it a huge threat to most teams. In the team building process, I talked about the qualities of a set up sweepers. First, Speed. Like I said Raikou is fast. So check that. Next, Bulk. Mismagius doesn't have a defense stat. Third, Substitute. I don't like being statused, do you? Lastly, Coverage within two moves. Well you've got Sub and CM so you're stuck with two moves. Now if you need another move, then you suck go leave. Raikou possesses all these qualities thus making it a good SubCM poke. With the given EVs, I am able to outspeed anything slower than a base 115 pokemon. Raikou's substitute will be able to live Choice Scarf Flygon's Substitute 100% of the time giving me a free Calm Mind. The rest are dumped in SpA to maximize sweeping potential and to abuse Raikou's base 115 SpA.





    Conclusion


    Well that's the team. So now that Flygon's in the team, the pressure of Stealth Rock is reduced. Though Arcanine still hates them, I mainly use Arcanine to bash holes in my opponent's team and create late-game cleaning process. Flygon and Azumarill are good physical sweepers and can easily clean up once Arcanine has done it's job.
  2. Zarco

    Zarco

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    168
    I've run a VERY similar team to this and it was fantastic. (I actually RMT'd it here if you want to see it) I personally used an Empoleon in the place of where you have Claydol because it does stop Kingdra, but you really need the spinning if you keep Victini. One solution is to switch your scarfer (Flygon works well b/c it maintains Claydol's ground typing, but you have lots of options) and then replace your Claydol with Specially Defensive Empoleon. This removes the redundancy between Arcanine and Victini and thus lessens your Stealth Rock weakness. To be safe, you may want to consider Morning Sun and even a bulkier spread on Arcanine simply because it now has to deal with Stealth Rock more often. Maybe I'm just trying to make your team like mine, but test those changes and get back to me. If you need sets let me know, but most are in the RMT anyways.
  3. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    I have tested the bulky Arcanine before so that I could lessen the need for Rapid Spin however here's what I noticed:
    1.) I lack more coverage
    2.) No rawpower as the offensive variant.
    3.) Speed is just shit and Arcanine can't survive too many hits. Well it can but with Stealth Rock and recoil, it just doesn't fit well.

    So I say no to that. If I remove Victini, I have trouble against things like Zapdos, Heracross and other stuff. Flygon is always a viable choice like I said. As for Empoleon, I don't see how it works sorry. Flygon just wrecks Kingdra to the face unless it's a Rain Dancer. Though Empoleon is still good. But with all that I have said, how can you help me with this one?
  4. Zarco

    Zarco

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    168
    I think the switch to Flygon or the switch to Empoleon would be necessary to patch up the Kingdra problem. Empoleon easily takes any move from Kingdra and roars it out, stopping any variant from setting up on you, and in a pinch can burn it or wear it down with ice beam/grass knot. You can dispose of it later given Raikou, Shaymin, or your scarfer of choice as long as you don't allow it to set up (and Empoleon stops it from doing so). Raikou (especially subCM) takes on Zapdos fine in my experience, and can even use it as set-up fodder. Because Victini seems to work for you in taking care of Heracross, you could consider it over Arcanine if Hera remains a problem. Having two physically offensive fire types seems much too redundant to me.
  5. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    actually i've sorta patched up the Heracross problem. Intimidate on Arcanine seems to be better although Chandelure is more of a threat now. But anyway I'll go for my current Arcanine + Flygon. Also I'll switch to Wild Charge now that bulky waters are sort a problem.
  6. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,002
    Yeah, that should fix the problem. Until you eat an Earthquake or Stone Edge. In no way does changing Arcanine's ability "patch up" your Heracross weakness. It's like telling politicians to get along. You're trying to do the right thing, but the attempt itself is so futile, that you've really done nothing. There's a lot of things that need to happen to this team in order for it to be considerably decent. Don't take this the wrong way, but if these changes really don't appeal to you, I'd suggest making a new team. I'm also going to approach this rate a bit differently than I would normal rates. Bear with me.

    Before I begin, let me ask you this: Why the hell aren't you posting this at the PO forums? Your getting rates from the Smogon tiering system, which has about 3 or 4 Pokemon in Underused that are banned from the PO tier. You're almost using a team designed for another tier and asking us to rate it based on this tier. I suggest playing with this team on Pokemon Showdown! and maybe even Smogon's PO 2.0 server if there's activity in order to see how it plays against the threats not seen at PO. Otherwise, having it rated here seems to be a waste of time for not only the raters, but for yourself too. I will be posting my rate from the perspective of the Smogon Underused tier tier simply because you're at this forum, and I'll address your team to this tier system.

    First change, get rid of Claydol. This thing is terrible. Very rarely will it have time to both Spin and lay hazards in the same match, and it lacks a lot of viable recovery. If anything, this thing is one of the reasons why your team is as bad as it is. The next change is to see Azumaril and Victini removed. Azumarill has no place on this team at all, and its position could be held by somethign providing an answer to trouble Pokemon such as Heracross and Chandelure. It's not actually as strong as most people like to think, as it's incredibly predictable, and has no way around Burns or Cofagrigus' Mummy ability, both of which are rising in popularity, and render Azumaril useless. Victini is being replaced for a similar reason, as it doesn't make for as good of a revenge killer as many people assume it would. It works better as a wallbreaker when equipped with a Choice Band, and Darmanitan does that job MUCH better. It's also just adding another Stealth Rock weakness to the team and leaves your team more susceptible to bulky Water-type Pokemon and Kingdra.

    Looking at what's left on your team, Shaymin, Arcanine, and Raikou, the "good" Pokemon on your team, you have some flaws that need to be filled with these three new vacant slots. First and foremost is that you definately want hazards support to make Arcanine all the more deadly. They help with Shaymin's and Raikou's offensive presence too. Another thing your team is going to want is a way to take heavy attacks from the likes of Moxie Heracross or Flygon. The remains of your team are also going to appreciate additional support with breaking through bulky Special Walls such as Snorlax and Porygon2, as Arcanine cannot do this alone. The final thing your team will be looking for is Rapid Spin support. This ensures that Arcanine doesn't die in 2 and a half turns because of all the residual damage. Breaking down your team's needs, one Pokemon instantly comes to mind regarding hazards support and the bulk needed to stomach hits from Heracross and Flygon. Gligar would make an excellent candidate for that fourth slot. It can tank Physical hits nearly all day, and can lay Stealth Rock for your team, making sweeps moderately easier for your other three Pokemon. A Scarf MoxieCross of your own will help with beating Snorlax and Porygon2, enabling Raikou and Shaymin to experience more success. It may be slower than Victini, but it works better as a revenge killer thanks to its STAB, ability, and higher Attack stat. Heracross will also prove to be deadly useful when having to deal with Chandelure, as it can easily revenge kill it or force it out on the double switch. The Rapid Spin support should come from a Pokemon such as Blastoise, who also provides additional support against Chandelure, being able to tank those Overheats relatively easily. Blastoise is arguably the tier's best spinner, and provides this team with a bulky Water-type Pokemon. Blastoise also re-completes the Fire / Water / Grass core that your team held, maintaining that ever-important synergy. I've listed the sets at the bottom of this post.

    As I said, and not to be harsh or anything, but you're probably better off building a new team, as this team needs such an overhaul to perform at its best. You still have a weakness to Outrage from Kingdra and flygon (Blastoise can take hits, but doesn't want to repeatedly take them), and are free to use a Tank Bronzong over Gligar, but it leaves you slightly more susceptible to Heracross. If you need, I can help you build a new team sometime down the road if this one doesn't work out.

    TL;DR and Sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Gligar @ Eviolite
    Immunity
    Impish Nature
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roost
    - U-Turn
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG]
    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Moxie
    Jolly Nature
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG]
    Blastoise @ Leftovers
    Torrent
    Bold Nature
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic / Foresight
    - Dragon Tail / Roar


    Hopefully this mile-long post helps your team see more success. Feel free to ask any questions regarding the suggestions above.

    EDIT: I just noticed that you replaced Victini with Flygon. Because you have a massive Ice-type weakness, I'm still suggesting that you use Heracross over Flygon as your revenge killer. It does more for the team, and has more power.
  7. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    ok So I might reply to your post from bottom to top since the ones at the bottom seems to be major. First, Ice doesn't trouble me at all. It makes me switch into Azumarill, predict the next switch in and hit it hard with something not named Aqua Jet. I actually use Return/Superpower more than I use my STABs since like you said, Azumarill is predictable but the player isn't. If ever they try to stay in thinking I'm gonna over predict, then they're gonna eat an incredibly strong move of choice. Removing Azumarill would cause a major problem since now I have no way of reliably killing weakened threats. The proto-type of this team had these members:

    Arcanine
    Roserade
    Blastoise
    Azelf
    Scrafty
    Honchkrow

    As you can see, I have tried out Blastoise and Roserade simultaneously in Pokemon Showdown but they didn't work. I tried going totally offensive by switching Roserade with an offensive Shaymin and Blastoise with a Choice Band Azumarill and they worked in tandem with Arcanine. Lead Azelf was totally bullshit so I thought of something else but none came into mind. I also tried thinking about Hitmontop for a spinner since Blastoise was taken out. Hitmontop was also a disappointment and so I just had to use Claydol. Apparently, Claydol isn't much of a dead weight since it can pull off Stealth Rock and spin away the hazards in one match. You see, there is a good reason why Pokemon are in their respective tiers. It's not because they're too predictable or they're just way too overpowered but because they perform a certain niche. For Scrafty, it wasn't enough seeing that heavy hitters are all over the place. It can't set up as freely as Raikou can so I went with Raikou. Honchkrow, though an interesting Pokemon, I have decided that I need a reliable revenge killer that can actually threaten in all stages of the game. Victini is actually strong if you think about what it can do given the proper timing. It outclasses Darmanitan in a way that it can also support its team with Victory Star and its health isn't easily ripped out by Flare Blitz.

    Also if you haven't noticed, I had a proto-type of the team basically saying that this team that you see right now is actually the rebuilt team.



    However despite all these things I've said, I might try out Gligar though I need an idea for a spinner not named Blastoise. Sure it's good but I don't like having too many water-types as Slowbro or any water/grass will troll this team. I might give Hitmontop a retest though I dunno who to remove since I'll remove Claydol for Gligar and I simply can't remove my Scarfer and my FGW core is already solid. Raikou perhaps? But the main reason I had a Raikou in my team is because I've noticed the first time I built it is that opposing Raikou and Nasty Plot Azelf are threats to this team.


    Last but not the least, I'm asking Smogon people since I really can't find myself a good place to ask for tips. Smogon is better IMO.
  8. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
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