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Before the Storm

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Crona, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. Crona

    Crona

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Hi there, Smogon! Back again with another RMT~
    This is actually a team I've been using for awhile (and made an RMT for!) but only recently jumped on to make changes. The original team had a heavy focus on Volt-Turn, but this one takes off some of that offensive pressure for more defensive play.

    Teambuilding Process:
    Show Hide

    Alrighty, so originally, I had Genesect on this team, along with good old Lanturn. However, Genesect went uber, and I figured with it gone, Lanturn didn't have a good position, so that went, too. I was left with Politoed, Tornadus-T, Landorus-T, and Forretress.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    On my last RMT, both Jirachi and Amoonguss were suggested in place of Genesect and Lanturn, which I didn't follow through as it was the rater's personal preference and I felt the meta was too offensive for me to switch to a more defensive style.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now here, I tried a support Jirachi, but it failed me, so I switched to SubCM, which worked beautifully. Amoonguss worked fine as well, but I wasn't a huge fan of it. I felt I could use better, but only Celebi seemed to fit its role just as well.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Celebi worked wonderfully, especially contributing U-turn to this team. But at this point, I realized my weakness to sun was enormous. I thought and thought and thought, just how the hell will I beat sun without drastically changing this? I thought maybe Latios over Torn-T, but that ended up opening gaping holes in my team. That's when I remembered the main suggestion for my team: Dugtrio over Landorus-T. I'm a huge fan of the kitty but I realized if I were to try and beat sun (as well as get that pain in the ass Heatran out), I'd have to use Dugtrio, which certainly did not appeal to me.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With this, I had an answer to not just Ninetales, but Heatran, opposing Jirachi, and T-tar, perhaps many more.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In Depth:

    [​IMG]
    Ghekula (Politoed)
    @ Ch
    oice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid
    Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    Hydro Pump | Ice Beam | Focus Blast | HP Grass

    While I'm a primarily defensive player, I often run SpecsToed. Though, as it appears in this meta, ScarfToed's the way to go. Too many things running speed to let them get by.

    Moves:

    Hydro Pump - The strongest STAB attack, and the preferred move in most situations. A good number don't appreciate Rain-boosted Hydro Pump.

    Ice Beam - An essential coverage move, to hit those Dragons anticipating Hydro Pump as well as some Grass-types. Mostly this will deal with DNite.

    Focus Blast - Focus Blast is the most reliable way to take down Ferrothorn on this team. Although it lacks the greatest accuracy, it still packs a hell of a punch when super effective. This is also not a bad move to resort to when I want to take out the current opposing Pokemon (after prior damage) but don't want to let another switch in for free on my Hydro Pump, because of its wide coverage.

    HP Grass - To complete its coverage moves, it just needs HP Grass to even hope get through Gastrodon. Rotom-W also takes a hefty amount, but it's not as worrysome. This is actually not too needed on this team, with Celebi, but I keep it to avoid too much dependence on Celebi.

    EVs:
    The EVs here are to maximize Sp. Atk and Speed, to ensure it beats stuff like DNite.

    [​IMG]
    Velika (Jirachi)
    @ Left
    overs
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    Substitute | Calm Mind | Psyshock | Thunder

    SubCM Jirachi is a beautiful set. As a fan of Volt-Turn, there's not much room for any sort of sweeper usually. However, this set works out just fine on Volt-Turn, especially on this team.

    Moves:

    Substitute - Any good sweeper hates to be paralyzed or burned, or even Leech Seeded. Substitute ensures none of that annoys Jirachi, and with max HP, Seismic Toss won't be breaking any subs, nor will most special attacks once it gets itself going.

    Calm Mind - Basically how this set has to work: boost up, start wrecking. In conjunction with Sub, Jirachi's subs become very difficult to break after a few boosts, and its Speed allows it to Sub again before a good number of Pokemon.

    Psyshock - The STAB, and a way of getting by Blissey and Chansey. With only one dedicated physical attacker on the team, this is the only other way of ensuring the pink blobs go down.

    Thunder - A mostly neutral attack, to get by most Steel-types. Since the team is rain, Jirachi gets to have not only more power but a higher paralysis chance.

    EVs:
    252 HP grants 101 Subs, and speed beats Breloom. The bulk, although seemingly more of a dump, has managed to keep up Sub after a Ferro's Bulldoze so I think that's a good change (of course, not much to be doing to that Ferro anyway).

    [​IMG]
    Bula (Celebi)
    @ Left
    overs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    Giga Drain | Recover | Baton Pass | Perish Song

    Celebi comes in as an extremely useful special wall, eating Electric attacks and most Hidden Powers, and still resisting Fighting well enough.

    Moves:

    Giga Drain - I have two STABs as my options, and with Psychic being a meh type, I chose Giga Drain. This way, even when Celebi is Taunted, it has a form of recovery still, and it also does decent damage.

    Recover - Being a wall, it's rather silly to not have Recover. Since Celebi will likely switch in often, it needs a reliable way of recovering quickly, which Giga Drain cannot promise.

    Baton Pass - Why this instead of U-turn? Well, U-turn can't escape Pursuit, but Baton Pass does. While that tiny bit of damage can be useful in certain cases, being able to escape Tyranitar and Scizor is too valuable to pass up.

    Perish Song - This is mostly just to stop a stall war or maybe break a BP chain (although that one Baton Pass RMT is just too perfect to be broken by a mere Perish Song).

    EVs:

    The Speed is to beat Tyranitar mainly, while also beating anything still sitting only 1 point above it. The rest of the EVs are just to make Celebi as specially bulky as possible, to absorb all the hits.

    [​IMG]
    Gukko (Tornadus-T)
    @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerat
    or
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    Hurricane | U-turn | Superp
    ower | Taunt

    Torn-T is one of the sexiest Pokemon I've seen in BW2. A unique speed tier, good SAtk, a fantastic ability that it's able to abuse, and a sleek design. Torn-T easily breaks down many and can take out Tyranitar, one of the great annoyances to rain.

    Moves:

    Hurricane - An extremely powerful STAB. With decent neutral coverage, it's difficult to stand up to this attack, especially when backed by LO. This is my main way of eliminating stuff like Breloom and Conkeldurr who need to use priority to hope to damage it.

    U-turn- What's a Torn-T without U-turn? Especially with LO+Regenerator. It's not just that, though. Tornadus-T likes to draw in some annoying monsters like Heatran and Jirachi. With U-turn, it can catch them on the switch and go into Dugtrio.

    Superpower - Flying/Fighting has beautiful coverage. Not just that, but as tempting as Focus Blast is, Tornadus-T prefers Superpower. It gets the OHKO on non-Chople T-tar, which is a victory in the weather war, and most things switching in are probably specially defensive.

    Taunt - I'm not a fan of using Taunt with stuff that isn't immensely bulky, but here it works. It can stop a Deoxys-D from setting up, a Chansey or Blissey from using status, Wish, or Softboiled, and can force the switch for a U-turn to grab momentum.

    EVs:
    The EVs here maximize that beautiful speed and SAtk and dump into Attack for the last 4. There isn't much else to do for such a great offensive mon.

    [​IMG]
    Archives Mole (Dugtrio)
    @ F
    ocus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
    J
    olly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    Earthquake | Reversal | St
    one Edge | Stealth Rock

    Dugtrio pulls this team together by ensuring that the main threats are cleared off the field. With Celebi and Tornadus-T drawing the main ones and passing the spotlight to Dugtrio, this becomes easier.

    Moves:


    Earthquake - The main form of STAB, and the way it takes out Heatran and Jirachi. There's no escape for those two (unless Heatran starts running Shed Shell again).

    Reversal - There's not much Dugtrio can run, and with a low Attack, it needs a high-powered move. Reversal comes in as the Sash breaks and starts dealing higher damage than EQ can do with STAB. This is a great way to put a bigass dent in the fat pink blobs.

    Stone Edge - EdgeQuake coverage is essential for many physical mons, and Dugtrio needs it even more since two of its moves are resisted by Flying and Bug.

    Stealth Rock - I never build a team without some way of setting up SR. Dugtrio usually only has to do one thing so now it gets a second job of setting up SR for the team.

    EVs:
    Max up the Atk and Spd, and nothing else. I find it rather pointless to throw those 4 remaining EVs anywhere else when it pretty much needs that sash broken ASAP for Reversal to be useful.

    [​IMG]
    Hoi (Forretress)
    @ Left
    overs
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    Rapid Spin | Spikes | Gyr
    o Ball | Volt Switch

    Forry comes in as my spinner, to keep Dugtrio's Sash safe and prevent my team from being worn down too soon. It also takes on physical attackers like Mamoswine, Terrakion, and several Dragons to abuse its low speed for KOs.

    Moves:

    Rapid Spin - A team wanting to switch a lot has to keep hazards off the field to be successful. Forry simply takes a hit and spins, and gets out. This'll keep Dugtrio safe to catch Heatran and friends.

    Spikes - My team doesn't have enough sheer power to make its KOs, so Forry offers up Spikes to wear down the opposing team.

    Gyro Ball - Instead of HP Ice, Gyro Ball was suggested, since Scarftoed can take on some Dragons. Gyro Ball helps my Terrakion problem, mainly against Scarf, as well as Mamoswine which outspeeds a good number of my team and threatens Tornadus-T with Ice Shard.

    Volt Switch - While Forretress has fantastic utility, it loves to draw in Fire-types like Heatran or Magnezones trying to trap it, and just can't deal with them. Luckily, Volt Switch can let it get right out to let the appropriate teammate take them head-on.

    EVs:
    To take physical hits as best as possible, max HP and Defense is needed. 4 dumped into Atk just with a lack of anything better to do with it.



    Conclusion:
    I really have loved using this team since I first made it, and am much happier that Genesect left for me to adapt it to a much more comfortable style. While I think it's pretty much finished up, I think it can use a few more changes before I move on to other teams.

    Importable:
    Show Hide

    Ghekula (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast

    Velika (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind

    Bula (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Giga Drain
    - Baton Pass
    - Perish Song

    Gukko (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Hurricane
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Taunt

    Archives Mole (Dugtrio) (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock

    Hoi (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch
  2. Usatoday

    Usatoday

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    not bad not bad at all i quite like it but the only thing that seems to be in order for me to suggest here is a spinblocker maybe a jellicent to cover the slight keldeo weakness? but very well done
  3. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    I'm glad you took my advice on Celebi's EVs and U-turn > Baton Pass. Tornadus-T also prefers Taunt IMO. I'm still not sure why you're running max speed, so here's a set I prefer to use for CM Rachi
    Show Hide

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 108 Spd / 148 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Psyshock


    This is a much physically bulkier spread. 252 HP is used for 101 subs, 108 speed is used to out speed Jolly Breloom, and the rest are dumped into defense.

    Other than that, I can't see anything too bad about this team. I just think you have to play smart to use this team. Anyway, Luvdisc, and I hope I helped.
  4. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,041
    Hey!

    I am really a huge fan of this team. It looks really solid, congratulations on building such a cool-looking team! The use of Dugtrio in rain as a sun counter coupled with Tornadus-T is such a great combination, and the support that Celebi, Jirachi, and Forretress give is really cool! There are a few things that I would like to address to make this team as optimal as possible. First of all, Terrakion looks really threatening. It can Swords Dance up, and with Stealth Rock set on your side and a Subsitute, well.. you're going to lose to SubSalac. Additionally, opposing Mamoswine looking pretty problematic as well. With Icicle Spear, Celebi dies. It outspeeds your slow Politoed, and can OHKO Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock. Forretress isn't touching it either. There are two changes I am going to recommend to help justify this weakness. First of all, try out Gyro Ball on Forretress with Maximum Defensive EV's. Hidden Power Ice is the most replaceable move to switch out for Gyro Ball. Gyro Ball gives you a good way to check Terrakion and Mamoswine to an extent, and it's an overall good STAB and still hits dragons hard. Specially Defensive EV's aren't really that great IMO since you're still pounded by Draco Meteor's and the likes and Celebi and Jirachi can still tank those anyways. Scalds boosted by Rain hurt, so definitely try out maximum Defense. Secondly, try out a Scarf Politoed instead of Specs. Scarf gives you a good revenge killer for DD Dragonite who is currently very threatening, as well as Garchomp, Terrakion, Landorus, etc. Also, your current Celebi and Tornadus sets lose to Breloom because Celebi cannot touch Breloom and Tornadus is put to sleep. Try out a Specs Tornadus-T with Sleep Talk instead. Good luck!
  5. Crona

    Crona

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Thanks for the rates!
    first thing I'm going with, I'm trying ShootingStarmie's suggestion first, about physically defensive Jirachi, because he did suggest that to me prior to making this RMT but I didn't know the spread he meant.
    He also messaged me to try a Scarf Keldeo when Scizor and Terrakion proved to be problems, but since I couldn't and he's trying it himself, I'll try out your suggestions, Princess Bri. HP Ice I realize hasn't helped me much at all in this meta, but Gyro Ball offers me some ground. I've also had Scarf Politoed suggested before but didn't try due to no actual support behind it until now, and since DNite's problematic, I'll do it.

    As for Tornadus-T I'm extremely skeptical of a Specs set, but I think I may try it anyway.
  6. Lemonz

    Lemonz

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    88
    @ Pandaw coffee-
    Dugtrio's IVs are meant to reduce defenses as much as possible, so as to attain a stronger reversal quicker.


    I'm probly just saying what other members are, but scarf toad is much harder to deal with, for me at least, than specs toad, due to the surprise factor. Still, i can understand that need for power.
    Other than that, forretress looks like he'd prefer gyroball to me. Hp ice only hits gliscor, landorus, and dragons hard. If the dragons use DD, then gyro ball will hit extremely hard, and both gliscor and landy look like they can be taken care of by a scarf politoed.


    Also, just want to say i get the bionicle refs
  7. Crona

    Crona

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Question, would it be beneficial to drop HP Grass on toed for Perish Song and then add Psychic over Perish Song on Celebi? I feel that without Specs toed loses force on HP Grass, and Celebi also can easily take on what toed possibly hits with HP Grass.
  8. Lemonz

    Lemonz

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    88
    Yeah, I'd say go for it. Hp grass isn't exactly strong anyway, and perish song can still be used on a scarf set. It's got surprise value too.
  9. Crona

    Crona

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    Bump :x
  10. Ginku

    Ginku Farbenprächtig
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    621
    Team looks solid overall after a quick look, although I don't really agree with Baton Pass over U-turn on perish song celebi as BP passes the perish counter to things you might not want it on, and Perish Song + U-turn is one of the main benefits of using Celebi. Baton Pass is better if you decide to use Psychic over Perish Song, but I don't think that's needed. If anything I would consider putting Psychic on your Politoed to catch Toxicroak off guard or do a bit more to Keldeo, since you don't really need hp grass for anything. One last thing to consider on Politoed is hp electric to hit Gyarados who pretty much demolishes you if you let it set up; I'd say it's better than either hp grass or focus blast, depending on whether you give it psychic or not.
  11. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    Eh, I've done some testing with Keldeo > Forretress, and Keldeo fits your team like a glove. Keldeo allows you to easily beat Blissey and Chansey, who were giving you quite a hard time before. Keldeo is also a great revenge killer in the Rain, and offers you some much needed speed for this team. I replaced Perish Song on Celebi for Psychic, and I made Politoed a defensive set.

    HOWEVER, I feel that Dugtrio is very underwhelming. I'm sure it might help you when facing sun teams, but I've had roughly 20 battles with this team, and I haven't run into one sun team. I also feel that Dugtrio is terrible as an SR user.

    I feel the best solution for this is replacing Dugtrio with support Terrakion. Terrakion sets up SR very well, helps you loads with Sun teams, and in general is just a great Pokemon.

    Here's the set
    Show Hide

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Swords Dance / Taunt / Rrock Polish
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    The reason why I have slashed Taunt is to stop opposing SR leads from doing their thing. Rock Polish is also an interesting option, as Terrakion can be used as a late game cleaner for Sun teams, as it out speeds any Venusaur set after a RP, and can basically KO everyone on a Sun team.


    Overall, its one of my favorite teams to use, and I hope my suggestions helped. GL
  12. Crona

    Crona

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    134
    I'm not sure about replacing Dugtrio, because it doesn't just take on Sun, it also ensures Heatran and Jirachi go down, instead of me having to keep switching on both. I'll try out Keldeo I guess, because I've seen you do well with it, though I'm unsure of giving up my spinner, even with Taunt.

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