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Beginner's first Rain team(?)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by haxpocalypse, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. haxpocalypse

    haxpocalypse

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    NEW TEAM LINEUP, go find my latest post on this thread.

    Okay, so this is the reason I signed up for Smogon: to get advice on how to create teams.

    Specifically, this Rain team which I'm setting up in Black/White 2, using Smogon's strategy database as my reference. I'd like some pointers on how to improve it or fix glaring flaws that I may have missed.

    TEAM BUILDING TIIIIIIIME

    Show Hide

    I hate weather changes, so which weather do I have the least trouble with and I can take advantage of the most? Rain.
    [​IMG]
    BAM! Politoed.

    I also hate hazards, but only on my side. Also, Pokemon slots are pretty valuable.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Shove off Ferrothorn, you don't have Rapid Spin.

    Now what kind of Pokemon can take hits well and really thrives in rain...? Well, Kingdra has Swift Swim but people seem to think Drizzle with Swift Swim is HAX, so how about...
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Meh. Blissey wouldn't have good synergy anyway.

    Okay, now I need a guy that punches things to make them fall down.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    No-brainer.

    But wait! Scizor has U-turn! That means I can have like half a VoltTurn team in there!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Presto!

    Whoops, looks like I made half my team the Water-type. So I'll need a Pokemon that's not Water, yet can still take advantage of the rain.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Oh Dragonite, I've always believed in you since 1st Gen.

    And there we go! I'm INSANE!​


    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpA / 6 Spe
    Modest Quiet Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Focus Blast Perish Song


    This is the bread-and-butter Politoed of OU. Politoed's main use is to set up rain so that the rest of the team can function, and until I'm sure that there are no more weather changers on the opponent's side, I'll need to keep Politoed as healthy as possible, so it usually won't be seeing many battles unless it's up against a Pokemon I know it can win against. Once all threats to the weather are gone, it can act as another special sweeper, with its STAB rain-powered Hydro Pump being able to murder even water-resistant Pokemon, though it's non-100% accuracy deters me from depending on it.
    On the recommendation of labarith, I made it Quiet and got rid of Focus Blast for something more reliable: Perish Song. This will force switches and ruin opponents who rely on set-ups to be effective.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    IVs: 0 Spe
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    Forretress has three jobs: set up Stealth Rock, spin away hazards, and take hits. The longer Forretress stays on the field, the more danger it is in, so it needs to switch out as quickly as possible after it has done its job. Shed Shell allows it to escape from Magnet Pull Magnezone before it takes any damage, while Volt Switch allows it to retreat after taking a hit, allowing me to safely switch in my other Pokemon. There's also Gyro Ball, which is there so that Forretress won't be completely useless on its own, but it's not going to be used that often.

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 10 Spe SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Wish
    - Toxic Heal Bell

    This tank is responsible for keeping the rest of my team healthy. To be honest, I was torn between this one and Umbreon, what with Umbreon being able to clear status with Heal Bell at the cost of Wish recovery and any sort of viable offensive, but I figured I needed a healer/tank that can provide adequate firepower and really take advantage of the rain that this team revolves around. Rest with rain up ensures that anything less that an OHKO will do anything to it.
    Apparently Vaporeon can also have Heal Bell. So there we go.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 10 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Everyone's favorite U-turning mass murderer, Choice Band Scizor is my main physical damage dealer and VoltTurn partner for Rotom-W. The one thing I worry about is that Scizor shares the same Bug/Steel typing with Forretress, which means that Fire will deal major damage to both of them despite the rain, but as long as key team members like Politoed and Vaporeon can support them, they'll be able to do their job.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Mystic Water Magnet
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 234 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump Thunder
    - Thunder Wave Hidden Power Ice
    - Pain Split

    Rotom-W can take the hits that Scizor can't, and it can also use a rain-boosted Hydro Pump to massacre things in the same fashion as Politoed. Aside from a Wish from Vaporeon, Pain Split is its only means of recovering lost HP. I use Mystic Water because I already used Leftovers and Lum Berry and it's the only other thing I know that'll work well with Rotom-W.
    Nobody likes anything with less than 100% accuracy, so I dropped Hydro Pump and replaced it with Thunder. Hidden Power Ice is to cover Thunder's ineffectiveness against ground.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 252 SpA / 182 Spe / 6 SpD
    Mild Modest Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Thunder
    - Waterfall Substitute
    - Roost

    I'm using Dragonite because I needed another powerhouse who can take advantage of the rain. STAB Hurricane hurts, plain and simple. Thunder is for coverage, Waterfall for taking advantage of Dragonite's high Attack stat (and also because I don't like Aqua Tail's 90% accuracy) and Roost is so that I don't waste turns switching back to Vaporeon just for a Wish. Lum Berry because I hate status.
    I took labarith's advice and swapped out Waterfall for Substitute, giving Dragonite more survivability and allowing it to abuse Multiscale even more. Since there are no more physical attacks on its moveset, I changed its nature to Modest and adjusted the EVs for maximum offensive power and HP.



    This is my first time doing this sort of thing, so I'm not sure if I'm even posting this right.
  2. labarith

    labarith

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    I see no reason Dragonite needs Waterfall/Mild nature. Making it flat out Modest or Timid, I think, lets you redistribute EVs more usefully. You've already got 3 other pokemon with water moves.

    I would think either Substitute or Dragon Meteor on Dragonite; Substitute lets you protect from status and helps to roost to a full multiscale if needed. DM is your strongest STAB move possible, and pretty much finishes off any dragon w/o a focus sash or multi scale.

    Re: Politoed
    Focus Blast has never been very reliable. If you can find something you might use once or twice - even Protect before a switch - would be better. Rain Dance is an alternative. Surf is also more reliable than Hydropump, so if you need the hit and don't need the power, Surf might be a good 4th move.

    Also, make it Quiet, with as low speed as possible. It'll help win weather wars, which is particularly important for you.

    Re: 10 Speed. I'm not sure why you've got this down, other than to outrace the mirror. Outracing the mirror on Scizor might be useful, but out-racing opposing Vaporeons seems pointless.
  3. haxpocalypse

    haxpocalypse

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Well I changed up my team according to labarith's advice.

    I worry that Scizor seems to be my only physical attacker on the team, and if that one Pokemon will be enough for my team to bring down specially defensive teams. Forretress doesn't count because it's a support tank, not a fighter.
  4. Delko

    Delko
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,237
    We don't really have a place for in-game teams but yours seem to be solid enough for competitive use, moved to OU Teams.

    Welcome to Smogon !
  5. haxpocalypse

    haxpocalypse

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    So it turns out Vaporeon can also have Heal Bell! Thanks Bulbapedia! Also, changed up Rotom-W.

    I'm trying to make my team less dependent on the rain, so I'm considering replacing Vaporeon with Blissey (who can, in fact, also have both Wish and Heal Bell according to Bulbapedia) but I'm not sure if that one change will either strengthen or hinder my current team. Here's my comparison:

    Vaporeon
    + automatic status recovery in rain
    + higher Def, SpA and Spe
    + STAB water attacks
    + resistance to water
    - lower HP and SpD
    - electric and grass weakness

    Blissey
    + automatic status recovery when switching out
    + higher HP and SpD
    + ghost immunity
    - lower Def and Spe
    - fighting weakness
    - poor attack movepool


    Also, since Dragonite needs so much effort to work at peak efficiency, I'm also considering swapping it out for either Tornadus-T, Garchomp, Landorus(?) or any other offensive behemoth/revenge killer.

    Tornadus-T
    + Regenerator ability
    + STAB Hurricane
    + U-turn
    + monstrous Spe
    + high Atk and SpA
    + ground immunity
    - electric, ice and rock weakness
    - Hurricane effective only in rain

    Garchomp
    + huge Atk and Spe
    + STAB dragon and ground attacks
    + Swords Dance
    + electric immunity
    + sandstorm immunity
    - 4x ice weakness
    - limited movepool

    Landorus
    + GRAVITY
    + huge Atk, SpA and Spe
    + U-turn
    + Swords Dance and Rock Polish
    + electric immunity
    + sandstorm immunity
    ? STAB Earthquake boosted in sandstorm
    - 4x ice weakness
    - water weakness

    Also, I've been thinking about having Quiet on Politoed -- is it necessary to be able to beat out only some Tyranitars' Sand Stream at the cost of having more Pokemon getting the first move over Politoed? Y'know what, I don't think Politoed should even be my lead, as I only use it to keep the weather under control (as in removing sun, sand, and hail). Perhaps I should make it Modest again and just have Forretress be the lead... maybe?
  6. haxpocalypse

    haxpocalypse

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Yeah, I'm bumping this thread because I've changed my lineup a bit. My goal is to make my team a bit more weather-independent. I still need Politoed to keep the sun, sand, and hail in check, though.


    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 66 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Smack Down

    One thing I noticed about my old team was that it was really weak to Electric attacks, with two of my Pokemon having an explicit weakness and the rest taking neutral damage. Landorus-T changes that. With good defensive stats, Intimidate immediately dampening any physical threat it switches into (aside from those with the Clear Body, White Smoke and Defiant abilities), an immunity to both Electric and Ground attacks and only two weaknesses, Landorus-T effectively acts as my new physical tank. I had Landorus-T take over Forretress's job as Stealth Rock layer because Landorus-T is less of a dead weight than Forretress after Stealth Rock has been set up. Smack Down was chosen over Stone Edge because even though Stone Edge is statistically the stronger choice, it still has piss-poor accuracy and PP, and Smack Down makes Skarmory and Bronzong run for the hills after it connects.

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpA
    Modest Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Perish Song

    Same as before, Choice Specs Politoed makes it rain when I need it to. I don't usually make Politoed my lead because it usually only switches in when the weather becomes either sun, sand, or hail, and it usually switches out immediately afterwards. Sometimes I might predict a Ninetales or Tyranitar switch and fire off a Scald to make them that much closer to being KOed, but even though my new team is more weather-independent than last time, Politoed is still a key player, so I don't let it fight entire battles for me all the time.


    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 10 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Scizor remains the same because really, what other Scizor set screams "immediate physical threat" quite like this one? Its fantastic Bug/Steel typing, the amazing Technician ability, and the infamous priority move Bullet Punch combine into a Voltron of offensive power that rivals Extremespeed. This makes speed largely a non-issue for Scizor when it comes to revenge-killing, but for slower, Steel-resistant Pokemon, there's the other options on the movelist.

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    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss

    I was trying to make my team more weather-independent, so I replaced Vaporeon with Chansey as my healer. Essentially, she does the exact same thing: Wish for restoring health and Heal Bell for clearing status. The difference is that Chansey gets a truckload more HP and more overall bulk thanks to Eviolite, but doesn't automatically heal status in rain.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Rapid Spin

    Just like with Landorus-T, Starmie gets the honor of replacing Forretress for Rapid Spin duty. The reason for dividing up Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin jobs is that I realized Rapid Spin is essential, while Stealth Rock is less so. Of course, Landorus-T is still very essential, but for different reasons. When not spinning away hazards, Starmie serves as a bulky water/special sweeper, with its base 115 speed making it the fastest Pokemon on my team. Thunder instead of Thunderbolt because Tornadus-T.

    [​IMG]
    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
    Timid Nature
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass

    Now this is the only member of my team that I'm kind of iffy about. Instead of another offensive presence, I have Espeon going around patching up holes in my defenses with Magic Bounce and setting up both screens, or one screen, or none at all if it needs to run away in a hurry. Despite the useful moveset, Espeon's really only there to scare away most hazard setters not named Tyranitar, and Breloom because Spore. I'm not sure if Espeon brings down my team's offensive potential or not, but so far it's been doing a fine job at keeping most Brelooms at bay.



    Might edit this later at some point.

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