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Benelux Stall (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Delko, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
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    [​IMG]
    Banner by Aerrow

    This is currently being rewritten.

    Challenge accepted! >:D

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    A. Introduction

    This is probably the longest used team I have ever used by far. Ever since the start of Gen 5, I've been trying to put together a solid Hail stall team because that was my favorite play-style last generation. I'll be honest and say that this wasn't an easy task. I tried several combination and strategies that looked good on paper but didn't fair so well in practice. 6 months later, during the World Cup of Pokemon, Mynism told me that stall isn't possible in gen 5 due to the new load of offensive pokes. We even made a bet about it (no idea what that was again though, lol). So, again, I spend quite some time on working out teams that I thought would make solid stall teams. I guess the more you play with a team, the better you get with it because during the Excadrill era this team peaked #1 with a score of 1523 but I still wasn't satisfied. There were still weaknesses that could be abused and I wanted to get rid of them. I stopped using the team for a very long time because I grew bored of it but recently I noticed that I'm starting to use it again on occasions. Metagames change so the team had to adopt as well. This is the final result and I'll probably retire this team when it's posted. Even though I didn't manage to get the team to first place on the leaderboard again (not even close), it just feels solid. I like the team and that's all that matters. It took me quite a while to write it, but I hope you enjoy this RMT.

    I would also use this as a little shoutout for anyone on #benelux who keeps the channel active even though the WCOP has long past. I know I'm not as active there anymore but I'll try to be again soon. I love you guys (except Frizy):
    Show Hide
    (let me know if I forgot anyone)
    McMeghan
    Vinc2612
    Darkloic
    H-C
    Mynism
    Nelson-X
    Zdrup15
    ElDino
    San_Pellegrino
    Tomahawk9
    Chieliee
    Twannes
    Optimusje
    Raseri
    Ningildo
    Novaray
    Bloo
    Poppy
    Shinycarletto
    Hugendugen
    Jumpluff
    Frizy
    KnightoftheWind
    Aerrow
    Limi
    Violatic
    Ginganinja

    Check out the Team History if you want a more detailed story of how this team was created. Otherwise you can just skip that and take a more in-depth look.

    Changes will be in red.

    B. Team History

    Show Hide
    V1: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This was the first version of the team, also my first RMT for Gen 5 . Abomasnow was picked as the weather inducer of choice, not only because it's my favorite pokemon but mainly because it covered the biggest threads at that time, Thunderus and Garchomp and Excadrill, the latter 2 had their ability canceled out due to Hail. The team was pretty effective and Abomasnow was also a pretty good check for Stallbreakers such as Mew and Gliscor. But then there was a sudden rise of a threat called CM Reuniclus so I obviously needed an answer for that. I replaced Hitmontop with Latias as suggested in the RMT. Of course this left me without a Rapid Spinner, and being a Hail and stall team I desperately needed one. So I also replaced Skarmory with Forretress who was able to Rapid Spin. I still had Gliscor as a physical wall and Latias was my new phazer so the team was solid yet again.

    V2: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The second version was created and this was the one I arguably used the longest. Since I like making RMT's I made one for this version as well. In the meanwhile Garchomp and Thunderus were banned and Hail was dealing recoil to every member on my team. So I opted to change Abomasnow with a CB Tyranitar. He turned out to work very nicely, especially combined with Volt Switch Forretress and Stallbreaker Jellicent to form a solid core. Later, Excadrill was banned too so I tried some more semi-stall versions of the team (check the linked RMT if you want to see that) and those turned out to be effective too. But they turned out to be to far away from the heavy stall style I was trying to use effectively.

    V3: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This variant was the team that peaked #1 under my main laddering alt "Requiescat In Pace". After some internal changes like making Latias slower but bulkier and giving Blissey Flamethrower to handle to increasingly popular VoltTurn teams. But the team was still very weak to weird stuff like Shed Skin DD Scrafty and with Toxic Stall Gliscor becoming more and more popular I added Skarmory to fix these problem. Skarmory became the new Spiker so Forretress had the opportunity to switch to the poisonous variant. Since Rock Gem Terrakion was also a new threat that my team struggled against I replaced Gliscor with Hippowdon, who gave me a secondary weather inducer as well. Blissey wasn't forced to run Stealth Rock anymore and with the removal of Poison Heal Gliscor there was the possibility for more team support with Aromatherapy. The final version of the team was created.

    V4: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I've been using this version for a couple of weeks now and I decided to post another RMT about it. There are plenty of pokemon that have been tried before this line-up was created (Celebi, Cryogonal, Dragonite, Gliscor, Hitmontop, Gyarados, Sableye, Abomasnow, Latias, Heatran, Ferrothorn) so let this be a homage to them as well!


    C. In-depth View

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Fling
    - Protect
    - Acrobatics
    - Earthquake


    Despite being an ancient set, Fling Acrobat Gliscor fits this team perfectly. Being able to check the biggest threats to this team in BU Breloom and Conkeldurr, while also being able to get a suprise poison on Rotom-W to keep those annoying VoltTurn teams in check.

    Hippowdon's replacement is the same pokemon that was once replaced by it, Gliscor. Not the SD-Protect variant I used in previous versions of the team but the surprisingly effective Toxic Stall set. Everyone who has ever faced one of these can agree that it is a very annoying pokemon to handle, even though there are quite a few pokemon that wall this set completely. Using this Gliscor set I am also able to deal with VolTurn teams much easier then I did with Hippowdon. There aren't a lot of physical attackers that can break the combination of Gliscor and Skarmory and with Natural Cure Blissey and a poisoned Gliscor most status inducers are covered as well. Last but not least, Gliscor is also able to take on certain Stallbreakers as Sableye and Mew much easier.

    Moves

    I opted for enough Speed to outspeed Adamant Lucario and Toxicroak, while the HP EVs provide maximum Poison Heal recovery. The remaining EVs are dropped into defense to boost Gliscor physical bulk a bit. Despite being not as bulky as a slower variant, Gliscor is still able to take most physical with little ease.

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    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch
    - Stealth Rock


    Forretress has gotten a lot of competition from Ferrothorn regarding bulky Steel Spiker and then there's also Skarmory who also has a reliable recovery move in Roost and a phazing move available. But Forretress does outclass them at something, she has access to Rapid Spin. At first sight this Forretress set seems a bit weird though but she does the job she is expected to do, which is nothing more then to lay down poisonous hazards and to provide Rapid Spin support. I have to admit that Forretress was the pokemon I had the most trouble with the "four moveslot syndrome" as she has quite a few options available, both supportive as offensive. But I settled with this one and I haven't changed it ever since. Setting up isn't to difficult with all those Outrage spammers, Scizor, Skarmory and Ferrothorn around. It does occur sometimes that Forretress turns out to be completely useless, but it's never a dead weight. I can still use it as sleep- or death fodder for something. As a nitpick, Forretress is made female to take hits from Rivarly pokes better, who are almost exclusively male.

    Forretress is one of the few pokemon that is able to lay down Toxic Spikes and thanks to her good defensive typing and bulk she manages to get them up pretty easily. Of course I will abstain from laying them down if my opponent has a Poison-type pokemon on his team. Although I tend to be bold sometimes and lay them up regardless just to lure out this Poison type. Rapid Spin is the crux move on Forretress and the main reason I chose her over Ferrothorn. Like I mentioned before, Forretress has good typing and bulk so getting her in safely to perform a spin isn't that hard. Volt Switch pairs up nicely with Rapid Spin as it allows me to to trap Spinblockers with Tyranitar. Volt Switch is also a good move to get another pokemon in safely (eg. when the opposing pokemon is stuck in Outrage) because Forretress is slower then the opposing pokemon most of the time. To a lesser extent Volt Switch is a good move to use against Gyarados who otherwise might have the potential to be annoying. Pain Split is without a doubt the weirdest move in this set but it's actually very effective. Like I mentioned before Skarmory and Ferrothorn are very common this metagame and with Pain Split Forretress will never lose to them while still maintaining the ability to Spin and set up Toxic Spikes. It also makes sure Forretress can stay around against the likes of physical Jirachi and Blissey/ Chansey. Since without Hippowdon I lack a good counter for stall breaker Gliscor I'm using Hidden Power [Ice] over Toxic Spikes. I hardly ever seem to use the poisonous spikes anyway and Hidden Power [Ice] has the potential to 2HKO Gliscor while Forretress is being able to take 2 +4 Earthquakes in return. Hidden Power [Ice] combined with Volt Switch gives like a BoltBeam combination too, albeit a somewhat weaker and strange version. Sometimes I still use Toxic Spikes though as it's still one of the best ways to "stall".

    About the EVs, whenever I'm not using Hidden Power [Ice] move those SAtk EVs to SDef obviously. A bit of special defense investments makes it easier to set up against weaker special attackers, the remainders are used to maximize Forretress' physical bulk. I'm not forced to run a -Spe nature and 0 speed IVs because I'm not using Gyro Ball. Not that it really matters though, as Forretress is still slower then most pokemon which allows me to Volt Switch after being attacked to get another teammember in safely.

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    [​IMG]
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Wish
    - Toxic
    - Protect


    What is a decent stall team without Blissey, she is pretty much obligatory to keep the specially offensive behemoths at bay. Even though Chansey is bulkier then Blissey thanks to the newly introduced Eviolite, I still opted for Blissey since the Leftovers recovery is really appreciated with the residual Sandstorm damage. Besides, Blissey isn't screwed over that much if she loses her item by Trick or Knock Off. Blissey's main job, besides taking special hits all day long, it providing Wish-support for her teammates without a self-recovering move. Keeping Forretress and Tyranitar alive can be crucial for my chances to win. Last but not least, Blissey also acts as my status absorber in case Gliscor cannot switch-in.

    Not to mention that Chansey has pitiful offensive stats so she can only rely on Seismic Toss to deal damage. Blissey's special attack stat isn't that bad which makes Flamethrower a possibility on here. This could make Blissey my best bet against those very popular VoltTurn teams that you just see everywhere these days. Last but not least Blissey also functions as a team cleric, healing status with Aromatherapy. Although it's not a necessity to cary this, it still has a big impact on the team.

    About the moveset, Seismic Toss and Softboiled and pretty self-explanatory, giving Blissey a move with a solid damage output and a move which adds to her longevity. Since most of pokemon do have a recovery move in their moveset I didn't chose Wish as a support move, and Softboiled is a good option regardless. As mentioned Flamethrower is my best bet against VoltTurn teams. Switch in against Rotom-W as they Volt Switch (or something else but they will Volt Switch eventually though) and kill Scizor with Flamethrower. Blissey is actually faster thanks to some speed investment and Scizor will hardly ever use Bullet Punch against her. However, on those kind of teams Landorus is a pretty common sight as well and obviously Blissey doesn't fair well against him. Luckily I can wear him down through residual damage as Landorus lack a reliable recovery move. Flamethrower also lets her beat Ferrothorn, Skarmory and opposing Forretress that try to use Blissey as set-up fodder. And since I don't use the Wish + Protect combination I have a free moveslot to spare. I opted for Aromatherapy which lets me heal status condition that cripple my team. It's pretty useful because a burned Tyranitar or poisoned Jellicent for example aren't as reliable anymore. With the removal of Hippowdon, I replaced Aromatherapy with Stealth Rock, because it's still the best move in the game and Aromatherapy was arguably the least useful move (it also doesn't work to well with Poison Heal Gliscor). Just like Hippowdon, Blissey is more then sturdy enough to set up the rocks multiple times if this is required.

    The EV-spread might look a bit weird though, but I chose to run enough speed to outspeed the standard 8 Spe Scizor set. Not because it's needed but VoltTurn is way harder to deal with otherwise. Maxed defense is pretty standard but then again also pretty obligatory to make up for that low base 10 defense (her huge HP stat kinda makes up for it). I put the remaining EVs in special defense rather then HP so Blissey can take special hits even better, this might sound redundant but things like Rain boosted Hydro Pumps are doing a huge amount to Blissey. As an added bonus it also reduces the recovery of Leech Seed, although it still heals a lot though unfortunately.

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    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Night Shade
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover


    Jellicent is by far the best Spin Blocker to currently use in the OU metagame, therefore it received a staying spot on this team. With the removal of Excadrill, Jellicent can take on all the commonly used Rapid Spinners (bare Life Orb Starmie with Thunder, who is dealt with by ScarfTar anyway). The main selling point it has over the other Spinblockers as Mismagius, Chandelure, Gengar or (lol) Rotom isn't just its higher bulk, but access to the reliable recovery move Recover. Other then blocking Rapid Spin, Jellicent is also a pretty decent stallbreaker. With Taunt + status support he can screw over opposing stall teams or various defensive combinations without much effort. Jellicent's ability and Ghost-typing gives the team an additional immunity to Fighting and Water moves, two attacking types that have the potential to cause me some problems. With Water Absorb Jellicent also has a better chance to take on strong Rain sweepers as Choice Specs Politoed or even the likes of Crocune. It also prevents burns from random Scalds which can decrease my longevity. Cursed Body never worked when I needed it to anyway.

    The moveset is, again, kinda standard but more then good enough. Even though I use Shadow Ball most of the time, Will-O-Wisp can be a crucial move sometimes too. It may look counterproductive on a team with Toxic Spikes support but there are actually a lot of pokemon that are immune to Toxic Spikes while being completely crippled by a burn, for example the likes of Dragonite, Skarmory and Ferrothorn. And of course, Burn is useful to spread around whenever Forretress fails to lay down the venomous hazards or if the opponent has 1 or more Poison-types on his team. Having both Scald and Will-O-wisp might look a bit redundant but Scald's 30% burn chance is pretty helpful when facing Stallbreakers with Taunt, like Mew or Sableye, who could be problematic otherwise if I couldn't get Toxic Spikes up in time. Besides Jellicent only other usable Water STAB move (usable in the meaning of good accuracy and PP) is Surf which is only slightly stronger, but the difference in damage output is pretty neglectable since this is a defensive variant. Then there also is Taunt, which is actually Jellicent's most important moves. Not only does it prevents set-up sweepers from setting up, hazards from being laid down or walls from recovering themselves but it also completely destroy opposing stall teams. Many defensive combination fall to Taunt + Toxic Spikes (or Burn of course). As a last move we have Shadow Ball, which I mentioned earlier, is used over Will-O-Wisp most of time. I found the move to be incredibly useful to hit the most effective spinner at the moment, Starmie, much harder while in the meanwhile also blocking Rapid Spin. Shadow Ball is also a very nifty move when facing a CM Reuniclus, and combined with Taunt will almost always leave Jellicent the victor, or at least weak Reuniclus enough so another team-member can finish it.

    I run a somewhat speedier variant to outspeed things common on Stall teams (Skarmory, opposing Jellicent, etc) so I have an easier time "breaking" them. 248 HP EV's lets Jellicent take less damage from entry hazards. The remaining EVs are put in physical defense to take hits better, and even without SDef investment, a Calm nature suffices to take many special moves without to much effort (read, the previously mentioned Starmie and Reuniclus).

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    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch


    Choice Scarf Tyranitar is yet another pokemon that doesn't have much usage in this metagame. Nonetheless it's still a fantastic pokemon to use on a stall team such as this one. It pretty much deals with every Spinblocker as well as the Magic Bounce abusers in Espeon and Xatu. Therefore Volt Switch Forretress forms an excellent combination with this Tyranitar set as she lures out these pokemon like no other. Tyranitar also deals with one of the most popular spinners at the moment, Starmie. Thanks to the Choice Scarf, Tyranitar gives me a more then adequate revenge killer for a variety of dangerous pokes such Choice Band or Sword Dance Terrakion, Choice Specs Latios, CB Dragons etc. It should also be mentioned that Tyranitar makes an excellent Trick absorber, something that can really screw over the other teammembers. Lati@s are the most commonly seen Trick users and Tyranitar is one of their best switch-ins. If I don't see Leftovers recovery on Rotom-W I assume it's choiced too (to bad Rest-O-Chesto is becoming a lot more popular these days). The only downside of using a pokemon with a Choice item is that it can become set-up fodder for a lot of pokemon. Luckily, because this is a stall team, it doesn't give me me to much problems. Tyranitar is also another Sandstorm inducer which, as I mentioned earlier, is very effective to keep pressure on opposing weather teams.

    This is probably the most commonly seen ScarTar set out there and for a good reason, it deals with a good amount of opposing teams. 2 Dark STAB moves might seem like a waste of a moveslot but both have their use. Pursuit is primarily used to trap pokemon or deal some damage to those fleeing out, but it's pretty weak otherwise. That's where Crunch is a good alternative option. It hits way harder which is needed for some bulkier pokemon that can otherwise be a nuisance for this team, by that I mean the likes of CM Reuniclus and Stallbreakers in Mew and opposing Jellicent. Crunch in conjunction with Pursuit also forces my opponent in some sort of mindgame; "to switch or not to switch, that's the question". Earthquake is not really all that common but hits a good amount of stuff that could be annoying for me otherwise such as CM Jirachi, Terrakion, Stallbreaker Heatran, opposing Tyranitar etc. Ice Punch is preferred over Tyranitar's other STAB move Stone Edge (or Rock Slide) because of a) It has perfect accuracy, and b) It hits certain things it needs to hit much harder, think about the Dragons, Mixed Landorus and arguably the biggest threat to this team, Stallbreaker Gliscor. Ice Punch still has good coverage with Earthquake anyway so not much is lost in that regard. I've tried many options actually, going from various other elemental punches, the previously mentioned Rock-type moves, Aqua Tail and (lol) Aerial Ace. But this moveset turns out to give Tyranitar the most use for this team, which is appreciated as Tyranitar is a key-pokemon.

    Not much to say about the EVs though, as they are pretty much as standard as can get. Max speed and attack to deal as much damage as fast as possible. There isn't really another option for this Tyranitar set though, EV wise. But it works, and if it works you shouldn't change it.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird


    Last but not least we have Skarmory. She was actually re-added in a later stage of the team as an answer for a variety of threats that could still trouble me. Which included Conkeldurr, Breloom, among other obvious Fighting-types, but also stuff like Toxic-stall Gliscor and Sub-DD Dragonite. Skarmory is just a solid and reliable stop to nearly every physical attacker in this offensive minded metagame. Paired with Blissey she forms the notorious "SkarmBliss" core which used to be an excellent defensive combination. It still is, but with the introduction of many new powerhouse pokes, abilities and moves there are a a whole lot more pokemon (or combination) that could break through it. Skarmory has a pretty straight forward job on this team. Lay down entry hazards in the form of Spikes and start spamming Whirlwind, slowly withering down the opposing team with residual damage. While in the meanwhile take any physical hit they can throw at her. I opted for Rocky Helmet here for the sole reason to have an easier time against VoltTurn teams, mainly Scizor and Landorus who, when choiced, can't spam U-turn for too long. Sometimes I would like to have Leftovers as Skarmory really appreciates that 6% additional recovery every turn. And then there's also the option Shed Shell which makes MagDrag teams less dangerous, but I have those covered reasonably well. Skarmory also is, again, made female to take Rivalry hits better.

    Archetype Skarmory but one of the best, if not the best, at was she does. Skarmory gets so many opportunities to lay down Spikes or do whatever else she wants to do, so even if my opponent manages to spin my freshly laid hazards away, Skarmory will just set them up again and again. Once Spikes, and preferably the other other hazards too, are on the field Skarmory can start doing what she does best, phaze with Whirlwind. Being a stall team I heavily rely on residual damage and with Whirlwind it shouldn't be to hard to slowly take my opponent down. Whirlwind is also useful for set-up sweepers, or worse, Baton Pass teams after Tyranitar has taken care of Espeon. Roost is used for the obvious recovery it provides and due to the lack of Leftovers this really isn't unappreciated. The fact that Roost removes Skarmory's Flying-type isn't that abusable unfortunately as most things that carry Electric moves are faster and Fighting are slower, meaning I can't get any benefit from this at all. It doesn't really matter though but I take what I can get. As a last move I could have gone for Taunt but I didn't. I went with Brave Bird because 1) I already have a Taunt user in Jellicent and 2) It prevents Skamory from becoming Taunt bait. Besides Brave Bird is still a pretty powerful moves which deals with a plethora of Fighting-, Grass- etc types. Drill Peck is an alternative as it doesn't give recoil damage but the damage output it noticeable and it's just to weak to my taste.

    I run slightly more speed on Skarmory for the sole purpose to outspeed similar variants. That 1 point drop in HP has no influence whatsoever anyway. The rest of the EV-spread is according to standard physical defensive Skarmory norms. Max HP and close to max Def is a pretty obvious option. Sometimes I go with a spread with 72 Spe EVs though so I can outspeed various Stallbreakers like opposing Jellicent.

    D. Optional Changes

    Check out the threatlist to understand some of these considerations.

    None atm.

    E. Past Team Members

    Hippowdon (open)
    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Ice Fang


    Despite his drop in usage, Hippowdon is still a very good pokemon to be using on a stall team. His natural bulk coupled with Sandstream makes him a pretty safe choice to keep the weather up. And his offensive presence also isn't to shabby, so other weather starters will never switch into him directly. Hippowdon is a vital member of the team, taking on the most part of the physical attackers in the current metagame. Powerful Dragon pokemon and Fighting-types reign havoc the OU tier and Hippowdon forms my back-up wall against those pokemon, should Skarmory fall. A lot of common HO-teams actually struggle to get passed Hippowdon. Coupled with Tyranitar, he also gives me two sandstorm starters which makes it harder for opposing weather teams to keep their weather up, and since weather is such an important factor this gen. this is obviously a very big advantage.

    The moveset is pretty standard but it's all Hippowdon needs anyway. Stealth Rock is often considered to be the best move in the game and Hippowdon is definitely bulky enough to set it up multiple times if needed. STAB'ed Earthquake coming from a base 112 attack stat is no laughing matter and will dent quite a lot of things, despite the lack of offensive investment. Slack Off is what sets Hippowdon apart from similar bulky Grounds such as Swampert and Donphan (that, and Sandstream of course), having a recovery move is always appreciated on a key-pokemon when engaging so called "weather wars". Since all other weather-starters lack a reliable recovery move, I have a critical advantage in that regard. I opted for Ice Fang over Roar for a couple of reasons; 1) Air Balloon is a really annoying item, pokemon such as Heatran, Magnezone, Tyranitar, Ninetales etc, who should be taken care of by Hippowdon rather easily can avoid being even touched. Ice Fang pops the Air Balloon so powerful Earthquakes can be thrown their way. 2) I have a weakness to Stallbreakers in the likes of MixMence, Taunt-SD Gliscor and even CB Dragonite. Ice Fang can hit all of these pokemon very hard and thus minimizing my weakness to them. Ground and Ice give decent coverage as well.

    I used Yee's EV-spread here but it's a solid one nonetheless. His physical bulk is still more then good enough and the special defense investment gives Hippowdon some useful capabilities. For example, it lets him switch into every opposing weather starter as well as various other special attackers such as Heatran, CM Jirachi, Tentacruel etc. It also lets Hippowdon live a Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor so it can outstall with Slack Off. Of course Hippowdon isn't the primary switch into special attackers, but just in case he needs to (fuck Rain stall Politoed + Tentacruel) he can.

    Others (open)
    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Rest


    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed


    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Roar


    F. Threatlist

    G. Closing Words

    Well that's it for the team. Feel free to use this team yourself but be warned for comments as "Stall is for n00bs" and "Learn2play with a real team". That being said, I hope you enjoyed this RMT, I tried my best to give it as much of a professional look as possible (hence the lengthy descriptions). If you have any comment, question or suggestion, feel free to post and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

    H. Importable

    Show Hide
    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Acrobatics
    - Protect
    - Fling
    - Earthquake

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Wish

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Night Shade
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch

    Skarmory (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Spikes
  2. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
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    Placeholder post (also bs picture limit).

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  3. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    There's not much to rate tbh.
    It's a really solid team.

    The standard SubPunch Loom with Seed Bomb seems problematic, and overall Volt-Turn as a whole, with a Scizor that outspeeds your Blissey may also cause some problems as well. Stallbreaker Mew can probably 6-0 you, but almost all of these threats are obsolete, and I don't see how you can change the team in any way without messing up the synergy to fix these weaknesses.

    Everyone hates on stall, which is lol because it takes a lot of skill nowadays, because 99% of teams are Volt-Turn. Fantastic team!

    Congratulations on your success!
  4. emirinho

    emirinho

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Hello, excellent stall team. Congrats.

    This team has all it needs to stall and to kill stall breakers and common sweepers with scarf Tyranitar. However, this team does have some threats like ,as you mentioned Rotom-w, some Volt-turn teams. I think that a Scarfed Victini is also a problem because it either OHKO'es or 2OHKO'es everything on your team. In sun the only Pokemon that can take a V-create is Jellicent, however, he gets 2OHKO'ed as well.
    Considering the 3 main threats listed above Gastrodon would be a very nice option. You could possibly replace it for Blissey or Hippowdon. It is your choice.
    In any case gastrodon can take on all the threats that were mentioned above.

    Nothing else i see as a problem on your team. Congrats...

    I hope i helped
  5. Thundur

    Thundur

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    Hey,

    Really love the team. I have been sitting here for a good bit thinking of threats, and there are not many. The one Pokemon that stood out to me is bulky CM Reuniclus, especially if they are carrying Psyshock. Tyranitar is your best bet, but a Jolly Crunch will not be doing that much to a 252/252 Bold Reuniclus. Reuniclus can procede to to Recover and sweep the rest of your team. Although Scarf Tyranitar is really nice for speedy trapping, I recommend a Chople Berry Tar set over your current set. A spread of 156 HP | 244 Atk | 100 SpD | 8 Spd (to out speed other Sassy Tar) with a Sassy nature and a moveset of Crunch / Pursuit / Fire Blast / Superpower looks like it would work well here. This set allows you to two hit KO Reuniclus, and live a Focus Blast with Chople Berry. I really don't see the need to out speed Jellicent, as your Jellicent out speeds most Jellicent sets and can stall them out. I hope this helps, and great team!
  6. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

    Joined:
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    Hey Delko,

    Amazing team you've got there. I only have one minor suggestion, which is to use Surf over Scald for Jellicent. Will-O-Wisp already burns whatever you wanted to burn, and does it with a higher success rate. Surf will let you hit a tad harder, letting you grab KOs which could have been a 2HKO otherwise. Congratulations!
  7. D4RR3N

    D4RR3N

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    excellent team as always Delko, not much to say other then GJ!
  8. DFDeino

    DFDeino

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    Jan 27, 2012
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    Pretty good team. Looks really great for stalling, Nice job!
  9. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hello Delko! Fantastic team! I love stall <333

    Anyways I can see CM Reuniclus being a huge problem, as nothing on your team is capable of OHKOing it [TTar does 55.19% - 65.09%] and Reuniclus is often able to squeeze its way past Jellicent via SpDef Drops/Crits. Aside from Jellicent and Tyranitar, which are probably your only two means of really threatening it [Skarm can Whirlwind, but takes a ton from Focus Blast and Skarmory really isn't a Pokemon you want to get a chunk of damage on]. Everything else essentially gets set up on. I think you could potentially try a Choice Band Tyranitar over your current set, since you seem to have stuff like Virizion and Breloom handled between Skarmbliss, and Starmie can always be stalled out if you get your Toxic Spikes up fast. Choice Band Tyranitar is always capable of OHKOIng CM Reuniclus with Crunch and is also useful for ripping holes in opposing stall teams [such as Stone Edge 2HKOing Skarmory]. Additionally, Choice Band Tyranitar can still take out Jellicent, due to being able to outspeed and OHKO it with Crunch. Hopefully the set works out well for you.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 80 SDef / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    As for some smaller changes, I think you could try out Toxic on Blissey over Aromatherapy, as per your OP. Toxic is great for nailing Rotom-W, as well as many other annoying Bulky waters and also physical threats that like to switch in on Blissey, such as Salamence and the like. Toxic also gives you the ability to stand up to Volcarona, which would take much longer to kill with Seismic Toss alone; ChestoRest and Morning Sun variants will be even harder to OHKO. I also think you could opt for changing Forretress to a Specially Defensive variant, mainly because you have Terrakion, Haxorus and Mamoswine checked for the most part, and checking those 3 are probably the main justification for running Phys Def Forry imo. Overall, Specially Defensive Forretress is able to set up on a lot more Pokemon [such as Gastrodon or Latias]. I think you should also expiriment with Gyro Ball over Pain Split, since Gyro Ball allows Forretress to act as an additional check to Gengar and Virizion if you use a Specially Defensive Variant as suggested. Pain Split seems useful, but Forretress generally has great staying power and can live through numerous turns of a match if you don't play recklessly with it.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch
    - Rapid Spin


    Change Summary:

    Blissey:

    Aromatherapy->Toxic

    Forretress

    Pain Split->Gyro Ball
  10. CommanderTow

    CommanderTow

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
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    I think it's a very-well thought out and built team; there are no real problems and all seem to have good synergy. However, I think adding a Celebi over say Forretress, might help you deal with what threatens you better.
  11. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Pretty cool team Delko. It is actually the same as my team pokemon wise except for Celebi in place of Jellicent. And this RMT actually got me thinking of Jellicent over Celebi.

    First thing I am thinking is Ferrothorn would pretty much do the same thing as Tentacruel on this team. While is set up toxic spikes, and spin. The key difference is Tentatruel can simply switch into toxic spikes to get rid of them, while Forretress has to spin, this would help you out again fellow toxic spikes teams. The only thing I am noticing you lose out with this change is the ability to say in forever on Forretress, to spin, and other members of your team can deal with Forretress. Also Tentacruel can just beat Skarmory with Scald, and with liquid ooze you can play a little easier against Conkeldurr and Virizion, so it is worth the trade.

    Speaking of Ferrothorn, I highly suggest you use superpower over aerial ace on Tyranitar to quickly dispatch of a weakened Ferothorn. In general it is just an amazing move because of its 150 base power.

    I also suggest you test out Choice Band Scizor over Tyrnaitar here. I have tested it out my self with much success. They pretty much perform the same task on this team except Scizor can easily beat Reunicles and Alakazam, while Tyranitar might struggle against Reunicles and loses to Alakazam. Scizor would also add an extra insurance against fast sweepers better than Scizor simply because it can just bullet punch them. Using Scizor does leave you a bit weaker against Starmie and Latios (HP fire), but that shouldn’t be too much of a problem because HP fire Latios typically doesn’t have trick/psycho shock and Starmie is not a problem as long as it doesn’t have thunderbolt, and even then its just annoying because it can spin.

    Finally I suggest you use toxic over seismic toss on Blissey. I am actually not sure why you have it there in the first place, since Jellicent can deal with Heatran and your Hippowdon or Jellicent probably beats any Tentacruel with ease. Toxic will help you out a ton against boosting special sweepers; I am actually not sure how you managed without it actually…

    In short:
    -Tentacruel > Forretress
    -Scizor > Tyranitar
    -Superpower > Aerial ace on Tyranitar
    - Toxic > Seismic Toss on Blissey
    Show Hide

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Ice Beam


    I am actually am quite interested in the other rates for this RMT seeing how similar it is to mine.
  12. Nova

    Nova what i have done cannot be undone
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    Silly Mynism, Delko da boss

    [​IMG]
  13. Adirael

    Adirael

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    Nice and cool team Delko, looks very good. Congrats !
  14. The Truth

    The Truth

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    I'm really loving the use of scarf Tyranitar here, as Sandstall usually has problems with threats such as Latios and Gengar due to not having scalds, toxics, etc flying around everywhere.

    I've been using a really similar team lately but with a perish song defensive Celebi over Tar and Tentacruel over Forry, though Tenta's lack of recovery has been problematic, having the ability to remove toxic spikes just by coming in has been really nice and I'd reccomend a Tentacruel in that slot. Knock Off is also hilariously good under sand.

    Your team seems like it has less problems with Reuniclus due to Tyranitar but having Perish Song somewhere is always great on stall to help out those nasty last poke sweeps.

    I also reccomend running Toxic over Seismic Toss on blissey, the power is nice but honestly blissey does better with the ability to cripple walls and toxic Lati@s. Those who aren't affected by toxic will end up eating a flamethrower or simply being switched out of anyway. Toxic on blissey also makes it great against weather starters Politoed and Ninetales, both of which it can't really touch with flamethrower. Getting rid of seismic toss may make Balloon Heatran harder to deal with, but having Jellicent and TTar around as well as that Ice Fang on Hippo should take care of that problem.

    I'm stealing your blissey EVs.

    (The edit button:for times when you want to post a real rate after doing an obligatory compliment post.)
  15. CheezyMoon

    CheezyMoon

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    Although it's pretty rare, Nasty Plot Infernape seems like a big threat. Your only way to kill it is Tyranitar, (watch for Vacuum Wave) since Focus Blast does 94.4% - 111.2% to Blissey, and OHKOing everything else, except Jellicent if it uses Vacuum Wave. Anyways, it's a pretty rare threat, nice team!
  16. Danilo

    Danilo
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    This team is excellent but i don't understand how you beat Stall Breaker Mew. Your team is excellent, it only fails to beat some weird threats like Jynx and Shell Smash, but excellent nonetheless. where do u get these sprites lol
  17. Black Rain

    Black Rain

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    Awesome team Delko! I had a lot of fun playing with this team and it's definitely great. Thus far, the only problem I encountered was a SD Lucario with Crunch, as with Rocks Damage, Skarmory can stand a chance of being KO'd and so does Forretress with Spikes added in. As with ScarfWynaut, I suggest you put Super Power > Aerial Ace on T-tar, allowing you to nail down Lucario's faster.
  18. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Shouldn't Hippowdon take close combats eve after +2? Let me calc that, because if that isn't the case, it can probably be fixed with a little more defensive investment.

    Edit: Yeah a spread of Impish - 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SDef is needed to take a close combat at +2, an alternate spread to consider.
  19. Nova

    Nova what i have done cannot be undone
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    Delko, on my Scarftar I use Earthquake as the filler move, js :)
  20. yee

    yee
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    Hey Delko this is a solid stall team so this isn't much I would change.

    I didn't run Careful on Hippo with that spread, I ran Impish. I also had a Slowbro and an Excadrill in the wings to handle Terrakion / Luke on that team but you need the extra bulk to take it on when boosted, I would recommend a new spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD, same idea just shifted more physically and safely taking on those boosted threats and Lucario.

    Changing Blissey's spread just to troll Voltturn is understandable but not completely needed and leaves you open to the faster Scizor you'll see. I'd just go 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 SpD to take 2 specs hydro pumps from Rotom-W in the rain. I think Toxic is the obvious option too over Aromatherapy so NP Celebi and other random boosters can't just set up all over it. Seismic Toss over Flamethrower is another preference so you can deal reliable damage to pretty much anything but it's not completely necessary unless you start finding Heatran annoying.

    Lastly, why is every team you post now named Team Benelux?

    That's all, good job!
  21. H-C

    H-C

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    There's Poppy/Poppycock who is often whith us on IRC :d
    Otherwhile it looks a great stall team and good job for making it. :)
  22. Mynism

    Mynism

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    I hate you soooo much

    PS : thanks for the eighth shoutout

    Maaaaan I took 20 mins of my own time explaining him that his team was very DDTauntGyarados weak with Surf over Scald
  23. New Age Retro Hippie

    New Age Retro Hippie

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    This is less of a rate and more of a praise. As a fellow staller it's great to see a great team like this. Stall is not dead! I would love to have you rate my stall team.

    Anyway one thing I noticed when playtesting this team was that blissey seems to do what chansey can do but worse. blissey falls to even nonSTAB fighting moves while chansey tanks um. thats all i cn really say because even blisse opperates well here as the leftovers keep sandstorm at bay.
  24. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
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    Hi Delko. Solid stall team you got there, and I think that was the stall you used on me on a Smogon tourney. (The fast Flamethrower from Blissey was a nasty surprise). Very solid team but I agree with other users that you have a weakness to Psyshock CM Reuniclus who otherwise have a field day on this stall team since Tyranitar is the only pokemon capable to 2HKO him and it gets KO´d by Focus Blast. It´s hard to recommend something viable without changing the team´s functionality and purposes.

    The suggestion I would like to recommend is running Lead Mamoswine over Hippowdon if you wish to keep Scarf Tyranitar. I know winning weather wars can be crucial in order to have an edge, but consider that HO weatherless teams are becoming very common. Mamoswine still accomplish to defeat various Dragons like Dragonite & Haxorus with the added benefit of hitting with a priority Ice Shard. Earthquake STAB will definitely KO Sunny Day Ninetales & Heatran. With a Jolly nature, you can hit them first with Earthquake after breaking their Air Balloon with Ice Shard. Endeavor lets this set shine as it can bring a pokemon to 1HP and KO next turn with Ice Shard. I think you can use Endeavor as an advantage to hurt Reuniclus bringing him down to a low HP and kill next turn with Scarf Tyranitar.

    Otherwise if you dont like Mamoswine, I second Karpman´s suggestion of Choice Band Tyranitar to deal better with Reuniclus. Nice stall team and it is a very solid one that deals with most omnipresent threats of the current metagame.

    Lead Mamoswine (open)

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Endeavor
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
  25. Ripamon

    Ripamon

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
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    Hi! I really like the look of this team, and it does feel very solid.
    However, like all stall teams, all it takes is a strong stall breaker to put this team on the back foot.

    Its nice to see this team is already gaining popularity, as i played against this exact team on a routine ladder run today.

    The problem with this team, which i exploited to full effect, was its glaring weakness to the new Terrakion.

    As we all know, the metagame is changing. Annoyed at being threatened by Scizor's bullet punch and switching out only to get u-turned..good players are now running SD+Protect Terrakion.

    What happened is, i came in on Blissey, who couldnt damage me. After an SD, i was able to cleanly 6-0 the entire team since i had SR up.

    Basically,as solid as this team is, it does need to adapt to one of the major changes in the metagame right now and devise a hard counter for this new major threat, rather than hoping for minimum damage on Skarmory, or a Stone Edge Miss on Jellicent.

    Il think on the solution and post my findings later today :)

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