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Bibarel (QC Approved 0/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by sax king, Dec 9, 2010.

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  1. sax king

    sax king

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    Bibarel
    [​IMG]
    [OVERVIEW]
    <p> Bibarel has always been considered a troll pokemon and has mostly been used "just vfor the lols". This gen, Bibarel recieved two things that recover it from the troll status to a serious threat status. Bibarel recieved Cheer Up, a move which is a godsend for mixed swepers and especially for pokemon with Simple. Bibarel also recieved the ability Inconsistent from the Dream World, which makes it capable of single handedly taking down teams. Bibarel has been salvaged from low NU to high OU this gen and is no longer a joke but rather is a serious threat. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Inconsistent
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Waterfall
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Inconsistent
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs.: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p> This could be the most annoying set in Pokemon. The basic premise behind this set is to stall until Inconsistent gains an Evasion boost, and then Evasion stall the opponent out. The beauty of this set is the other boosts Bibarel receives from Inconsistent. Attack boosts make Waterfall hurt much more. Any boosts to Bibarel's defenses only help it stall out the opponent even longer. Speed boosts make it easier to set up subs and make it easier to stall out the opponent without taking any hits. Only Special Attack boosts aren't useful. After Bibarel has monstruous defenses, high evasion, and is sitting comfterably behind a sub, Toxic should be used to stall out the opponent. After the opponent is poisoned, just spam Waterfall until they die. Then repeat for the remaining five pokemon. This strategy is so simple and yet so deadly and so hard to counter. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p> Super Fang can be a real pain on this set, but the only problem is where to put it. If it is put over Toxic, then Ghost-types and Pokemon with Water Absorb (or a 4x resistance to water) wall Bibarel. If it is put over Waterfall, then Ghost-types, Poison-types, and Steel-types wall Bibarel. Yet is can really speed up the wearing down proccess, so it deserves a mention. Many of the EVs can be shifted into Attack or into either Defesne, but Bibarel needs its bulk and its speed. Return can be used over Waterfall, yet this leaves Bibarel vulnerable to Steel-types, Ghost-types, and Poison-types. It is always possible to remove Toxic for Return, but this means that Burungeru will wall Bibarel. Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall, but it relies on a boost in Accuracy and is essentially useless if Bibarel's accuracy is lowered.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Cheer Up
    move 1: Cheer Up
    move 2: Aqua Tail
    move 3: Return / Quick Attack
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Naive
    EVs.: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p> Simple really helps boost Bibarel's sweeping power. Essentially, in a single turn, Bibarel is using both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. This allows Bibarel to be a fantastic wall breaker. The Attack and Special Attack allow Bibarel to score some very important KO's such as follows:

    +2 Aqua Tail Vs Physically Defensive Hippowdon 94.8% - 111.9% (OHKO with SR)
    +2 Aqua Tail Vs SD Scizor 102.1% - 120.2% (OHKO)
    +2 Return vs Max HP, Def Blissey 82.4% - 97.1% (very close to OHKO with SR)
    +2 Return vs Wish Support Vaporeon 94.4%-111.2% (OHKO with SR)
    +2 Thunderbolt vs Specially Defensive Skarmory 85.6% - 101.2% (very close to OHKO with SR)
    +2 Thunderbolt vs Max HP, Max SDef Burungeru 51.9% - 61.3% (2HKO)

    These stats show that Bibarel is clearly capable of taking out some of the most prominent walls in OU after just one boost. Aqua Tail and Return get great coverage together, being resisted by only Shedinja, Cradily, Nattorei, and Empoleon, and Burungeru in OU. The choice between Ice Beam and Thunder can cover most of these. If Ice Beam is chosen, Empoleon, Burungeru, and Shedinja can wall Bibarel. If Thunder is chosen, Cradily, Nattorei, and Shedinja wall it. Bibarel tends to be very frail and somewhat slow, so priority attacks are also options, as they can deal a lot of damage at +2.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Bibarel is very frail and can easily be killed. Quick Attack and makes it a priority sweeper because of its otherwise slow speed. Return and Aqua Tail make it more of a wall breaker. Thunder and Blizzard can be used for more power and to ensure certain KO's, but it is unreliable an hould only be used for wall breaking. Superpower can be used as well for coverage, but its defense drops are counter productive. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Defenive Booster
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Amnesia
    move 3: Return / Quck Attack
    move 4: Waterfall
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Impish / Adamant
    EVs.: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>With Simple, Bibarel is capable of boosting both of its defenses to great leves and tanking throught the opponent's team. Bibarel can use Amnesia to raise its Special Defense to +4, which is very impressive. Curse allows it to raise its physical Defense while simultaneously raising its physical Attack. This allows Bibarel to tank through the opponent's team. Return and Waterfall have great coverage together and are Bibarel's main STAB moves. But the Speed drops are a let down, so Bibarel can use its STAB priority attack. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Bibarel can move some EVs around in order to suit a much more bulky role, but Bibarel should be more offensive. Bibarel's main STAB attacks are completely walled by Burungeru and Nattorei, but Bibarel really doesn't have too many offensive options, so its only other option is Superpower, which is counter productive to its boosting. </p>

    [OPTIONAL CHANGES]
    <p>Bibarel really has no other viable options. Its movepool is okay, but its stats make many of its possible sets not viable. It can run a Charge Beam set because Charge Beam doubles Bibarel's Special Attack, but Bibarel's Special Attack is subpar, and Cheer Up is much better. Bibarel has a decent special movepool, but its Special Attack stat is lacking, so Choice Specs are required. Bibarel can have a god Choice Band set due to having poweful STAB attacks. Unaware has its benefits, but Bibarel isn't suited for a bulky set. Super Fang is always a useful move, but there are usually better options.</p>

    [TEAM OPTIONS]
    <p>The inconsistent set works pretty independently and doesn't really have too many team options Toxic Spikes support can be useful, but Bibarel can use Toxic itself. Tentacruel can be a good partner due to the fact that it can lay down and absorb Toxic Spikes as well as take Fighting-type attacks. For the other sets, a pokemon that can benefit from the broken down walls makes a good teamate such as Infernape or Gyarados. Bibarel's biggest counters are Burungeru and Nattorei, so a pokemon that can take out both is welcome, like Heat Wave Zapdos or Hidden Power Fire Gengar. Curse Bibarel has the same issues, and it needs a pokemon that can take out pokemon that resist Water+Normal. The Curse set also needs a pokemon to remove common phazers like Skarmory, so once again Infernape makes a good teamate. Rain support is always welcome to boost Bibarel's main STAB, and it also allows Bibarel's Thunder to always hit.</p>

    [COUNTERS]
    <p>Burungeru and Nattorei are the bane to Bibarel's existance. They resist Bibarel's STAB combo, and there's little Bibarel can do in return. In fact, most bulky waters can give Bibarel a hard time as long as Return doesn't do too much damage. Some physical walls can counter Bibarel pretty well, as long as they don't become set up fodder for either boosting set. Phazers are huge problems for either set as well, so pokemon like Skarmory and Suicune tend to be troublesome. There is very little that can counter the Inconsistent set. Steel-types and Poison-types are annoying in the sense that Bibarel can't use Toxic, but Bibarel can always straight forward attack them. </p>

    [DREAM WORLD]
    <p>Inconsistent is the greatest gift Bibarel could have received. It's what separates Bibarel from other crappy early in-game pokemon. Bibarel really received a huge upgrade with Inconsistent.</p>
  2. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
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    IMO, Waterfall should be used over Aqua Tail on the Inconsistent set (or slashed, or atleast mentioned in the AC). Until Bibarel gets a + 2 accuracy boost, a missed Aqua Tail could screw Bibarel over. It also has a nifty chance of flinching ;)

    Oh yes, when you start to add teammates to the Inconsistent set, you should mention Tentacruel as a partner. Not only can Tentacruel absorb the dreaded Toxic Spikes (which is fatal to Bibarel), it can lay its own Toxic Spikes, so it frees up a moveslot.
  3. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    How exactly does Inconsistent work? Does he get a boost at the end of each turn, like Speed Boost? Or is it only when he switches in? And are the boosts and decreases random?

    And does the addition of Inconsistent and Cheer Up really mean that Bibarel will skyrocket through the tiers? The Cheer Up set is still pretty frail, and Inconsistent seems unpredictable and.....inconsistent.

    Don't get me wrong, I like to see Bibarel get as much as possible, because he's cool as heck. Maybe my lack of understanding of Inconsistent has something to do with it, but I really don't think the 5th generation Bibarel is as beastly as you've made him out to be.
  4. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    At the end of every turn one random stat will be sharply raised (2 stages), while one random stat will drop 1 stage.

    Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed, Accuracy, and Evasion.

    The amazing thing about inconsistent is that it is actually a very threatening tactic right now in which users are sending in an inconsistent user, using protect hoping for a speed/evasion sharply raising, and stalling out an opponent, or sweeping them. Minimize is banned. This is basically a 1 out of 7 chance of getting a free minimize with out having to take a turn to use minimize. AND ITS LEGAL.
  5. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
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    Every turn, a Pokemon with Inconsistent will have a random stat raised by 2 stages and another stat decreased by 1 stage. This means that, in 7-10 turns, you can have a Pokemon with + 1 or + 2 in every stat (including accuracy/evasion). Inconsistent Bibarel/Octillery are so annoying to face that many people on the gen V suspect board are actually trying to ban them.
  6. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Okay, I get it now. I was skeptical at first that Bibarel could survive long enough to make use of this, but with Protect and Substitute it does make sense. Good for Bibarel! Good for him!
  7. Trucy

    Trucy

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    Should probably change Aqua Tail to Waterfall there, seeing as Waterfall has become the main option.
  8. Venser

    Venser

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    First off, what on EARTH is Thunder doing on a competitive set. Unslash it and move it to AC and mention that it is only viable with Rain support. If an Electric attack is completely necessary, you could mention HP Electric, although you lose much of your power.

    Also, remember that analyses are typically written in point form until they recieve QC Stamps; they are then translated into prose.

    Right now it would probably look something like this:

    [OVERVIEW]

    • Bibarel was a horrible Pokemon last gen
    • This gen, received Cheer Up and Inconsistent, both of which are incredible boons
    [SET]
    name: Inconsistent
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Waterfall
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Inconsistent
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs.: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Extremely annoying, due to Inconsistent
    • Sub+Protect until your stats are boosted extremely high
    • All boosts, save Special Attack, are useful
    • Toxic can stall out Pokemon who resist or are immune to Water
    • Extremely difficult to counter
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Super Fang can be used, but Bibarel loses coverage depending on what it replaces
    • EVs are for maximising bulk and speed
    • Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall, but is less useful due to Inconsistent's chance to lower accuracy.

    [SET]
    name: Cheer Up
    move 1: Cheer Up
    move 2: Aqua Tail
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Thunder / Ice Beam
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Naive
    EVs.: 116 Atk / 114 SAtk / 248 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Simple+Cheer Up allows for a Nasty Plot+Swords Dance
    • Fantastic wall-breaker due to this
    • Speed EVs for outspeeding base 70s and Breloom
    • The choice between Ice Beam and Thunder depends on what you want to hit.
    • Empoleon, Burungeru, and Shedinja wall Ice Beam sets
    • Cradily, Nattorei, and Shedinja wall Thunder sets
    calcs (open)

    • +2 Thunder Vs Wish Support Vaporeon 112.1% - 132.1% (OHKO)
    • +2 Aqua Tail Vs Physically Defensive Hippowdon 124.3% - 146.2% (OHKO)
    • +2 Thunder Vs Physically Defensive Skarmory 207.2% - 244.3% (OHKO)
    • +2 Thunder Vs Specially Defensive Skarmory 141.3% - 166.5% (OHKO)
    • +2 Ice Beam Vs 252 Atk/Spe, 6 Hp YACHE BERRY chomp 130.7% - 154.2% (OHKO)
    • +2 Aqua Tail Vs SD Scizor 133% - 156.7% (OHKO)
    • +2 Aqua Tail vs Max HP, Def Blissey 95.1% - 112.2% (OHKO with SR)
    • +2 Return vs Max HP, Def Blissey 108% - 127% (OHKO)


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    I hope this helped!
  9. sax king

    sax king

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    @ Trucy
    Thanks for that catch, I'll change that

    @Venser
    Thunder is needed to secure some important KO's such as on Skarmory, Vaporeon, and even Suicune. Thunder is completely viable on a competitive set. In fact, it is the same accuracy as Focus Blast (which is completely viable) and even gets a boost in the ever present rain this gen. And the issue about writing the analysis isn't true at all. Plenty of analyses are written without QC stamps. I've writen four and no one seems to have said anything, and I've seen plenty of non-stamped ones that are written. But thanks anyway!
  10. domeface

    domeface

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    Thunder secures almost no OHKOs... Okay yes, it guarantees the OHKO on Vappy, but with SR and a few more SpA EVs it's almost guaranteed anyway. Skarmory is also always OHKO'd, don't know about Suicune, but from what I remember it's less specially bulky than Vappy, so it's fine too. As for Focus Blast, it is literally one of the worst moves in the game. It's used purely out of necessity, in cases such as Gengar's or Alakazam's where it's literally their only choice for a vital coverage type. Its accuracy makes it completely unviable to anything with Aura Sphere or moves that achieve similar coverage. If a special attacking Dragon-type had EarthPower, Fire Blast and Focus Blast as its coverage options, Fire Blast and Earth Power would almost certainly be used 99% of the time despite Focus Blast supplying the same coverage with Dragon in one moveslot and with more power than EP, purely because of Focus Blast's shit accuracy. YOU may be willing to take the risk with Thunder, but analyses are supposed to represent the best options, and when used without a way to reliably boost its accuracy, Thunder is never the best option. Ever. If a pokémon has Thunder in its movepool, it also has Thunderbolt. There are no exceptions to this. Thunderbolt is always better than Thunder. Always. So please, change it to Thunderbolt.

    tl;dr: Thunder secures no OHKOs, Focus Blast is NOT 'totally viable', Thunder without an accuracy boost is always shit, change it to T-bolt asap.
  11. hexatron

    hexatron

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    I'm the guy who wrote up the Cheer Up set, and Quick Attack really deserves a slash with Return, if just to prevent him from being revenged, as Bibarel is very frail. It does around 50% to most garchomp and OHKOs frailer revengers like Weavile, so it isn't totally weak.

    Also, mention rain support. Aqua Tail (and Waterfall, which suddenly becomes an option) is both incredibly incredibly powerful under the rain and 100% accurate thunder is really nice.
  12. sax king

    sax king

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    haha yeah i know, I saw that on the thread and thought of how good it is. Thanks for the calcs man. I'm going to mention Quick attack in the AC, or I may slash it in after a few calcs. I'm mentioning rain support in team options, which will obviously go with Aqua Tail and Thunder.

    You seem like you tested Bibarel a lot. Do you think a SubChargebeam Bibarel would be worth writing?
  13. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    Before, Substitute Charge Beam Bibarel was underwhelming at best. Compared to the options of Inconsistent and Cheer Up that it now possesses, Charge Beam is a completely inferior option.

    Also, please change Thunder to Thunderbolt. Vaporeon isn't an extremely valuable kill, compared to the unreliability of Thunder. However, Thunder COULD be mentioned with higher SpA EVs, in order to 2-Hit KO Burungeru (if my calculator is right, anyways). But, still, it is a lesser option, as you are probably just better off switching in case of Energy Ball or burn anyways. I mean, statistically, I think there's only a 49% chance that BOTH uses of Thunder (out of two) will hit... Totally not something I'd rely on.

    -Zane

    Edit: You're probably better off using Cheer Up again, then using two Thunderbolts, if you plan on staying in Burungeru.
  14. froggrunner

    froggrunner

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    The cheer up set still has 32 EV's unused
  15. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Think that a Curse set might work? It's going to be slow as dirt but if would be an unstoppable physical tank.
  16. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    I see two problems with a Curse set.

    First, he still has major weaknesses to water, electric, and fighting type moves, and these attacks will still put a heavy dent into him.

    Second, he has no reliable form of recovery outside of Rest, so unless that is paired with Curse or you have serious Wish-support, he would still fall pretty quickly.
  17. sax king

    sax king

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    Actually, I'm going to add in a Curse set with both Curse and Amnesia, which can still be pretty deadly.

    Also, what do you guys think of a SubCharge set? There's a 50% chance of getting +2 SAtk each turn.
  18. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Wouldn't Cheer Up be better generally, as it's more reliable and guarantees the boost?
  19. FinalAeon

    FinalAeon

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    How about an Unaware set? Bibarel is one of the few Pokemon that can stop Inconsistent users, especially without using an attack (Haze, Clear Smog, etc).
  20. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Waterfall is risky, really risky. There are ones with Storm Drain and Water Absorb that are unaffected by it. For the Inconsistent set, I would add Thunder Wave as a choice over Toxic and replace Waterfall with Pluck (or change to a Timid nature and use a special move).
  21. sax king

    sax king

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    Bibarel does not have the bulk it needs in order to take advantage of Unaware. Other stat boosters would plow right through it. The fact that it can counter inconsistent users (which is somewhat false as well, becaue Speed is not ignored) just isn't quite enough to warrant a set. But I'll put it in OC.

    Thunderwave should not go on the Inconsistent set. Bibarel is meant to stall out pokemon with Toxic, so paralysing them is'nt really all too helpful. As for the change to Pluck, I really don't see why Bibarel needs to change. All users of Storm Drain and Water Absorb can be Toxic Stalled. The point of Bibarel isn't to attack, that's just there to speed up the process and take advantage of attack boosts. Waterfall is way better than Pluck in this case.
  22. Venser

    Venser

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    It's your funeral. Bullet form allows you to make changes easily before you start fleshing things out. You make a good point about the rain, though. I hadn't thought about that. Maybe you should mention that in AC.
  23. sax king

    sax king

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    DONE!
    Let's do some QC Checks now
  24. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    You should probably mentionin the Dream World section that the best way to abuse Inconsistent is by Substitute+Protect stalling.

    Good job on the analysis.
  25. sax king

    sax king

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    The first set is the Sub+Protect set, because Bibarel has already been released.

    And thanks!
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