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Bibarel (Update) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Namso, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Namso

    Namso
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    Bibarel was such a boss Baton Pass recipient during DPP. I miss that.

    [​IMG]
    R.I.P

    [Overview]

    <p>Bibarel is generally an unfortunate case. All three of its abilities are among the best in the game (Moody being banned for being too overpowered), but Bibarel simply lacks the stats and movepool to make good use of them. Bibarel does possess a decent support movepool with options such as Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave, but it is so heavily outclassed that dealing with its countless flaws is not worth the trouble. However, Bibarel does have the potential to be a plausible threat by using Curse alongside Simple and its great STAB coverage. Even so, Bibarel is still a very weak and underwhelming Pokemon that has no chance of being the serious threat it could have been if it wasn't so cruelly designed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Simple Sweeper
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Simple
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the only set Bibarel can run remotely well. With its Simple ability, Curse becomes a Swords Dance and Iron Defense boost in one, meaning Bibarel only needs to set up three times to maximize its power and bulk. Rest is used to recover Bibarel's lost HP from taking hits while Curse boosting and remove any status ailments, and with Chesto Berry intact, it won't be subject to the initial Rest's sleep effect. Waterfall is the primary STAB attack of choice, hitting more Pokemon harder than Return. Quick Attack takes up the last slot to provide much-needed STAB priority to prevent revenge killers, such as Jynx and Primeape, from easily checking Bibarel.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max HP EVs are used to give Bibarel more opportunities to pile up Curse boosts, and the rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack with an Adamant nature so Bibarel can actually hit hard with the accumulated Curses. It's possible to run Return over Quick Attack if you prefer to have a stronger coverage attack, but losing priority leaves Bibarel vulnerable to literally any Pokemon due to Curse harshly reducing its Speed.</p>

    <p>It's not surprising that Bibarel needs significant support to work. Toxic Spikes support is highly recommended so the opponent is still being hampered as Bibarel boosts up. It also prevents Alomomola from completely walling Bibarel. Therefore, Garbodor and Scolipede are great options to look into, as they both also resist Bibarel's Fighting-type weakness. Due to Bibarel boasting a pitiful defensive stat spread, dual screens support from the likes of Gardevoir and Serperior is strongly encouraged. This can help to potentially ensure Bibarel reaches three Curse boosts for maximum power. It's also necessary to pack teammates to remove the common bulky Grass- and Water-types resistant or immune to Waterfall, such as Tangela, Seismitoad, and the previously mentioned Alomomola. Jynx can handily dispose of Grass-types and the less common Dragon-types that also resist Waterfall with its Ice Beam, even providing sleep support with Lovely Kiss, and Piloswine packs Icicle Spear and priority Ice Shard to pick off weakened Grass- and Dragon-types as well. Exeggutor deals with Water-types very well, demolishing most with its STAB Leaf Storm, and also resists Bibarel's Grass-, Fighting-, and Electric-type weaknesses.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A defensive set with Unaware using Stealth Rock and Toxic, Thunder Wave, or Yawn can be used, but it's generally ineffective with Bibarel's pathetic defenses. It's also possible to run a specially defensive mono-Curse set using Waterfall, but it's far too easily dealt with and difficult to execute with Bibarel's lackluster special bulk. Work Up is another boosting attack Bibarel has access to and can turn it into a mixed attacker, but Bibarel still remains awfully weak with its subpar offenses. Bibarel can be used as a weather supporter as well, but it is completely inferior to the plethora of other choices out there. Taunt and Super Fang can be used in conjunction to break down walls, but Golbat does this task significantly better and there are other more reliable wallbreakers to consider. Lastly, Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for a stronger but less accurate STAB attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It's not difficult to counter Bibarel whatsoever; anything that can take Waterfall and Quick Attack and retaliate back hard generally works well. More specifically, strong Electric-, Grass, and Fighting-type attackers will completely obliterate Bibarel. Eelektross, Exeggutor, and Sawk are examples of such. Taunt users, such as Mandibuzz and Samurott, can nullify half of Bibarel's typical moveset, and any phazer, such as Bastiodon and Lickilicky, can make it start from square one. Water immune or resistant Pokemon, such as Water Absorb Seismitoad and Alomomola, can hamper Bibarel's sweeping potential, as it's forced to use its weaker Quick Attack. Frillish stands as the perfect counter to Bibarel, being immune to both of Bibarel's STAB attacks, although it cannot do much back. All that basically needs to be done is to not obliviously allow Bibarel to accumulate full boosts because it does have the possibility to do some harm.</p>

    Show Hide

    [Overview]
    • Bibarel's generally an unfortunate case, as it boasts amazing abilities but lacks the statspread and movepool to make good use of them
    • has a decent support movepool, but is so heavily outclassed that it's not worth the trouble dealing with Bibarel's countless flaws
    • takes advantage of its Simple ability and Curse to potentially be a plausible threat with its good STAB coverage
    • a weak Pokemon that could've been a serious threat if it wasn't so cruelly designed
    [SET]
    name: Simple Sweeper
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Simple
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • only set Bibarel can remotely run effectively
    • with Simple, Curse becomes both Swords Dance and Iron Defense (only needs to set up 3 times)
    • Rest will recover all of Bibarel's HP lost from Curse boosting and remove any status ailments, making it ready to sweep as Chesto Berry will instantly wake Bibarel up
    • Waterfall as the primary STAB of choice, hitting more things harder than Return
    • Quick Attack for much-needed STAB priority so Bibarel isn't easily revenge killed by the likes of Jynx and Primeape
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • 248 HP EVs are used to give Bibarel more opportunity to pile up Curse boosts, and the rest are dumped into Attack with an Adamant nature so Bibarel actually hits hard with the boosts it has accumulated
    • Return > Quick Attack for stronger STAB, but you lose the priority
    • needs significant support to work
    • Toxic Spikes support is also helpful so the opponent is still being hampered as Bibarel boosts up, making Garbodor or Scolipede great options to look into; they also resist Bibarel's Fighting-type weakness
    • dual screens from Gardevoir or Serperior
    • teammates to remove the common, bulky Grass- and Water-types resistant or immune to Waterfall (Serperior, Torterra, Seismitoad, Alomomola)
    • Jynx can take out Grass-types and the lesser common Dragon-types that resist Waterfall, and Piloswine packs Icicle Spear and priority Ice Shard to pick off weakened Grass- and Dragon-types as well
    • Tangela and Exeggutor handle Water-types very well; they also resist Bibarel's Grass- and Electric-type weakness (Exeggutor resists Fighting too)
    [Other Options]
    • defensive supporter with Unaware using Stealth Rock and Toxic/Thunder Wave/Yawn
    • Work Up and Simple to act as a mixed attacker, but is awfully weak with the subpar stats
    • offensive Curse set using max HP and Attack and Waterfall/Return/Quick Attack, but really hard to set up and Bibarel still hits like a wet noodle without full boosts under its belt
    • specially defensive mono-Curse set using Waterfall, but too easily dealt with and difficult to execute with Bibarel's pitiful special bulk
    • weather support, but completely inferior to the plethora of other weather support Pokemon
    • Taunt and Super Fang to break down walls, but Golbat does this significantly better and there are other more reliable wallbreakers to choose from
    • Aqua Tail > Waterfall for stronger but less accurate STAB
    [Counters]
    • not difficult to counter Bibarel whatsoever, anything that can take Waterfall or Quick Attack and retaliate back hard generally works well
    • any strong Electric-, Grass-, and Fighting-type attackers will completely obliterate Bibarel
    • Eelektross, Exeggutor, and Sawk are some of which
    • Taunt nullifies 3/4 of Bibarel's typical moveset (Mandibuzz, Samurott), and any phazer can make it start from square one (Bastiodon, Lickilicky)
    • water immune or resistant Pokemon such as Water Absorb Seismitoad and Alomomola instantly shut down any sweeping potential coming from Bibarel, as it's forced to use its weaker Quick Attack
    • Frillish stands as the perfect counter to Bibarel, being immune to both of Bibarel's STAB attacks, although it cannot do much back
    • just don't obliviously let it accumulate full boosts because it has the possibility to do some harm
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  2. Namso

    Namso
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    So Bibarel is now ready for QC, but honestly, I'm not a huge fan of this set. It's so hard to set up and so easily dealt with that it's just not worth it. Whatever potential Bibarel has, I don't believe it is showcased with this set.

    I'm going to further test a couple different Curse sets. One of them involves Chesto Berry and the other White Herb. If anyone has any insight or strongly believe RestTalk is the only way to go, please post here. Thanks.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  3. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    I think ChestoRest id Probably the best way to go with this Curse set. It really needs Quick Attack to be effective imo
  4. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I don't like the set either, RestTalk isn't needed since it's fully set up in 3 turns and missing on on Quick Attack kind of sucks considering Bibarel has such great dual STAB. This is what I'm thinking the set should be:

    [SET]
    name: Simple
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Simple
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD

    Basically just Curse up a few times, ChestoRest and start attacking. Max Attack Adamant over SpD Careful because Bibarel's bulk is lackluster anyways and the SpD won't really help against most special attackers. Getting off a strong +2 Quick Attack just sounds superior to me.

    [Overview]
    Cut the first 3 points. They're not relevant to how Bibarel does in the present time, which is what matters for these analyses. I think you make Bibarel sound worse than it is. I mean it's not good, but Simple Curse with those STABs is pretty cool.

    [Set Comments and Additional Comments]
    Since the set changed these sections could be updated. I would remove mentions of dual screens and Stun Spore; basically every Pokemon ever benefits from having dual screens and Bibarel doesn't need it to work. Stun Spore I really just don't get, it's not going to outspeed anything with it cause of Simple Curse and again the para support just doesn't fit with this. Plus neither Tangela or Eggy actually use Stun Spore.

    These are pretty major changes so they will need to be implemented and I'll have to check over it again before I stamp it.
  5. Namso

    Namso
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    Yeah that's the exact set I was using earlier today and it's probably the best way to go about using Bibarel. I also fixed the Overview by reducing the intense negativity and taking out how it performed in the past (I thought we were supposed to include how the particular Pokemon changed from past generations, though?). Fixed the set comments and additional comments as well to reflect the new set, but I'm going to keep the dual screens mention. I know anything benefits from it, but Bibarel in particular benefits greatly from it because all it needs is just three boosts to be pumped up and ready to go, unlike other boosting sweepers that need six; dual screens will help Bibarel accomplish this. If you still disagree, then I will take it out, but I don't see why I should honestly.

    Thanks for your comments.
  6. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    The whole include how a Pokemon changed was from Aldaron's thing which was directed for OU. We do take a lot of what Aldaron said and apply it to our analyses, but I don't really see the reason to add stuff from past gens because it's not actually helping the new user learn about how the Pokemon does currently.

    [Overview]
    Add what Bibarel does in the metagame (Curse and abusing its great STABs)

    [Additional Comments]
    I would move TSpikes mention before dual screens. It's super helpful to weaken down Bibarel checks and also for allowing it to beat Alomomola. (Add this mon to the list of Water resistant mons since it can just stall you out of Rests with Toxic and doesn't really fear +6 Quick Attack. Add Return to AC for hitting much harder than Quick Attack, but misses out on the priority.

    [Checks and Counters]
    Don't mention Parasect, instead use the Pokemon list in AC and add them in there. You can generalize further by saying anything that can take a Waterfall and Quick Attack and retaliate back can be considered a check.

    QC Approved 1/3
    [​IMG]
  7. Namso

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    Awesome thanks ebeast! Implemented changes.
  8. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
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    Namso likes this.
  9. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Just wondering, why is the EV spread 248 HP instead of 252?

    Treecko edit because too lazy to post: it was probably from when the set had Leftovers for a Leftovers number. It doesn't really matter now, but if Fuzznip wants to change it to 252 HP, that's fine. @scorpdestroyer
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2013
  10. Namso

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    Ok this is written and ready for final QC.
  11. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    Good work!

    QC Approved 3/3
  12. Namso

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    Appreciate it Treecko! Ready for GP.
  13. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego I'm not ready 4 freddy
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    derp

    @Fuzznip

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Bibarel is generally an unfortunate case. All three of its abilities are some of the best in the game (Moody being banned for being too overpowered), but Bibarel simply lacks the stats pread and movepool to make good use of them. Bibarel does possess a decent support movepool with options such as Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave, but it is so heavily outclassed that it's not worth the trouble dealing with Bibarel's countless flaws. However, it does have the potential to be a plausible threat by using Curse alongside its Simple ability and great STAB move coverage. Even so, Bibarel is still a very weak and underwhelming Pokemon that could have been a serious threat if it wasn't so cruelly designed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Simple Sweeper
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Simple
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the only set Bibarel can run remotely well. With its Simple ability, Curse becomes a Swords Dance and Iron Defense boost in one, meaning Bibarel only needs to set up three times to ready itself for a sweep. Rest is used to recover Bibarel's lost HP from Curse boosting and remove any status ailments, and with Chesto Berry intact, it won't be subject to the initial Rest's sleep effect. Waterfall is the primary STAB attack of choice, hitting more Pokemon harder than Return. Quick Attack takes up the last slot for the much-needed STAB priority to prevent revenge killers, such as Jynx and Primeape, from easily checking Bibarel.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max HP EVs are used to give Bibarel more opportunities to pile up Curse boosts, and the rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack with an Adamant nature so Bibarel can actually hit hard with the accumulated boosts. It's possible to run Return over Quick Attack if you prefer to have a stronger coverage attack, but losing priority leaves Bibarel vulnerable to literally any Pokemon due to Curse harshly reducing Bibarel's Speed.</p>

    <p>It's not surprising that Bibarel needs significant support to work. Toxic Spikes support is highly recommended so the opponent is still being hampered as Bibarel boosts up. It also prevents Alomomola from completely walling Bibarel. Therefore, Garbodor or Scolipede are great options to look into, as they both also resist Bibarel's Fighting-type weakness. Due to Bibarel boasting a pitiful defensive stat spread, dual screens support from the likes of Gardevoir or Serperior is strongly encouraged. This can help ensure Bibarel to reach the three Curse boosts for maximum power. It's also needed to pack teammates to remove the common bulky Grass- and Water-types resistant or immune to Waterfall, such as Tangela, Seismitoad, and the previously mentioned Alomomola. Jynx can handily dispose of Grass-types and the lesser common Dragon-types that also resist Waterfall with its Ice Beam, even providing sleep support with Lovely Kiss, and Piloswine packs Icicle Spear and priority Ice Shard to pick off weakened Grass- and Dragon-types as well. Exeggutor deals with Water-types very well, obliterating most with its STAB Leaf Storm, and also resists Bibarel's Grass-, Fighting-, and Electric-type weaknesses.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A defensive set with Unaware using Stealth Rock and Toxic, Thunder Wave, or Yawn can be used, but it's generally ineffective with Bibarel's pathetic defenses. It's also possible to run a specially defensive mono-Curse set using Waterfall, but it's far too easily dealt with and difficult to execute with Bibarel's lackluster special bulk. Work Up is another boosting attack Bibarel has access to and can turn it into a mixed attacker, but Bibarel still remains as awfully weak with its subpar offenses. Bibarel can be used as a weather supporter as well, but completely inferior to the plethora of other weather support Pokemon. Taunt and Super Fang can be used in conjunction to break down walls, but Golbat does this task significantly better and there are other more reliable wallbreakers to consider. Lastly, Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for a stronger but less accurate STAB attack.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>It's not difficult to counter Bibarel whatsoever; anything that can take Waterfall or Quick Attack and retaliate back hard generally works well. More specifically, strong Electric-, Grass, and Fighting-type attackers will completely obliterate Bibarel. Eelektross, Exeggutor, and Sawk are examples of such. Taunt users, such as Mandibuzz and Samurott, can nullify half of Bibarel's typical moveset, and any phazer, such as Bastiodon and Lickilicky, can make it start from square one. Water immune or resistant Pokemon, such as Water Absorb Seismitoad and Alomomola, can hamper Bibarel's sweeping potential, as it's forced to use its weaker Quick Attack. Frillish stands as the perfect counter to Bibarel, being immune to both of Bibarel's STAB attacks, although it cannot do much back. All that basically needs to be done is to not obliviously allow Bibarel accumulate full boosts because it does have the possibility to do some harm.</p>


    1/2
  14. Namso

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    Implemented, ty.
  15. melvni

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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Bibarel is generally an unfortunate case. All three of its abilities are some of among the best in the game (Moody being banned for being too overpowered), but Bibarel simply lacks the stats and movepool to make good use of them. Bibarel does possess a decent support movepool with options such as Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave, but it is so heavily outclassed that it's not worth the trouble dealing with Bibarel's dealing with its countless flaws is not worth the trouble. However, it Bibarel does have the potential to be a plausible threat by using Curse alongside Simple and its great STAB coverage. Even so, Bibarel is still a very weak and underwhelming Pokemon that could have been a has no chance of being the serious threat it could have been if it wasn't so cruelly designed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Simple Sweeper
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Chesto Berry
    ability: Simple
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the only set Bibarel can run remotely well. With its Simple ability, Curse becomes a Swords Dance and Iron Defense boost in one, meaning Bibarel only needs to set up three times to ready itself for a sweep maximize its power and bulk (or something similar to this because it won't always need to set up three times to sweep, even if it is really, really helpful). Rest is used to recover Bibarel's lost HP from taking hits while Curse boosting and remove any status ailments, and with Chesto Berry intact, it won't be subject to the initial Rest's sleep effect. Waterfall is the primary STAB attack of choice, hitting more Pokemon harder than Return. Quick Attack takes up the last slot for the to provide much-needed STAB priority to prevent revenge killers, such as Jynx and Primeape, from easily checking Bibarel.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max HP EVs are used to give Bibarel more opportunities to pile up Curse boosts, and the rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack with an Adamant nature so Bibarel can actually hit hard with the accumulated Curses. It's possible to run Return over Quick Attack if you prefer to have a stronger coverage attack, but losing priority leaves Bibarel vulnerable to literally any Pokemon due to Curse harshly reducing Bibarel's its Speed.</p>

    <p>It's not surprising that Bibarel needs significant support to work. Toxic Spikes support is highly recommended so the opponent is still being hampered as Bibarel boosts up. It also prevents Alomomola from completely walling Bibarel. Therefore, Garbodor or and Scolipede are great options to look into, as they both also resist Bibarel's Fighting-type weakness. Due to Bibarel boasting a pitiful defensive stat spread, dual screens support from the likes of Gardevoir or and Serperior is strongly encouraged. This can help to potentially ensure Bibarel reaches three Curse boosts for maximum power. It's also needed necessary to pack teammates to remove the common bulky Grass- and Water-types resistant or immune to Waterfall, such as Tangela, Seismitoad, and the previously mentioned Alomomola. Jynx can handily dispose of Grass-types and the lesser less common Dragon-types that also resist Waterfall with its Ice Beam, even providing sleep support with Lovely Kiss, and Piloswine packs Icicle Spear and priority Ice Shard to pick off weakened Grass- and Dragon-types as well. Exeggutor deals with Water-types very well, demolishing most with its STAB Leaf Storm, and also resists Bibarel's Grass-, Fighting-, and Electric-type weaknesses.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A defensive set with Unaware using Stealth Rock and Toxic, Thunder Wave, or Yawn can be used, but it's generally ineffective with Bibarel's pathetic defenses. It's also possible to run a specially defensive mono-Curse set using Waterfall, but it's far too easily dealt with and difficult to execute with Bibarel's lackluster special bulk. Work Up is another boosting attack Bibarel has access to and can turn it into a mixed attacker, but Bibarel still remains as awfully weak with its subpar offenses. Bibarel can be used as a weather supporter as well, but it is completely inferior to the plethora of other weather support Pokemon choices out there (you can use your own words here (or keep it if you like since it's not grammatically incorrect), but this seemed a little redundant). Taunt and Super Fang can be used in conjunction to break down walls, but Golbat does this task significantly better and there are other more reliable wallbreakers to consider. Lastly, Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for a stronger but less accurate STAB attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It's not difficult to counter Bibarel whatsoever; anything that can take Waterfall or and Quick Attack and retaliate back hard generally works well. More specifically, strong Electric-, Grass, and Fighting-type attackers will completely obliterate Bibarel. Eelektross, Exeggutor, and Sawk are examples of such. Taunt users, such as Mandibuzz and Samurott, can nullify half of Bibarel's typical moveset, and any phazer, such as Bastiodon and Lickilicky, can make it start from square one. Water immune or resistant Pokemon, such as Water Absorb Seismitoad and Alomomola, can hamper Bibarel's sweeping potential, as it's forced to use its weaker Quick Attack. Frillish stands as the perfect counter to Bibarel, being immune to both of Bibarel's STAB attacks, although it cannot do much back. All that basically needs to be done is to not obliviously allow Bibarel to accumulate full boosts because it does have the possibility to do some harm.</p>


    GP: 2/2
    Namso likes this.
  16. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    uploading~

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