1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Bibarel

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jellicent, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    [​IMG]
    Voted against the Moody ban
    QC Approved: tennisace, Ice-Eyes, and NatGeo
    GP Approved: sirndpt, NatGeo (for Evire)

    [Overview]

    <p>The transition to BW has not been kind to everyone's favorite HM slave. While Bibarel briefly enjoyed success with his new ability, Moody, its quick banishment left in the dust once more. To make matters worse, Baton Passed boosts aren't doubled by Simple, meaning if this beaver wants to sweep, he'll have to set up on his own. He also faces stiff competition from Quagsire for the role of an Unaware tank. He does have a few tricks up his sleeves, however, so don't completely write off this silly looking rodent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Simple
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to Simple, each time Bibarel uses Curse, it is the equivalent of both a Swords Dance and an Iron Defense boost, at the complete sacrifice of his Speed. Waterfall provides excellent coverage for a mono-attacker, resisted only by Water-, Grass-, and the rare Dragon-types. Rest is the only form of recovery available to Bibarel, which is a requirement for his success. Sleep Talk allows him to continue boosting and attacking while he slumbers.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers is the item of choice, as it provides Bibarel with some much needed health. The EVs and nature maximize his special bulk, as Curse will quickly boost his physical defense. The remaining 4 EVs are dropped into Defense for added bulk. Chesto Berry is an alternative item option, instantly waking Bibarel after Rest. When using it, Bibarel can afford to run either Return or Quick Attack over Sleep Talk. While Return offers a greater damage output, Quick Attack is useful priority that makes up for his abysmal Speed.</p>

    <p>Teammates that can remove Grass-, Water-, and Dragon-types greatly increase Bibarel's effectiveness. Ice-type attackers, such as Cyrogonal, Glaceon, Piloswine, and Sneasel, can handle Grass- and Dragon-types with ease, while Exeggutor, Torterra, and Eelektross are all prime options for dealing with other Water-types. A Wish passer makes a wonderful partner, as Bibarel's biggest issue is his lack of reliable recovery; Lickilicky, Alomomola, and Audino are all great for this role, though all three unfortunately share weaknesses with Bibarel. Leafeon, however, has good type synergy, and is more physically defensive, though its Wishes are smaller. As with any sweeper, entry hazards are a plus for scoring more KOs. Cacturne and Garbodor are excellent Spikers, while Mesprit and Bastiodon can provide reliable Stealth Rock support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Return / Waterfall
    move 4: Protect / Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Unaware
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take advantage of Unaware, a wonderful ability for a defensive Pokemon. Thanks to Unaware, Bibarel ignores stat boosts; even after a Shell Smash, Gorebyss can only 3HKO him. Toxic is useful for wearing down foes, but Thunder Wave is a great choice for stopping a Gorebyss sweep cold. Stealth Rock is one of the few things Bibarel has to differentiate itself from Quagsire, so it should always be used. Return is Bibarel's strongest attack, and his best option in case he gets Taunted. Protect is useful for gaining added Leftovers health and wearing the foe down further with Toxic.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Bibarel's special bulk to best allow him to take on the likes of Gorebyss. Waterfall can be used over Return, and offers better neutral coverage, but it is less effective against Gorebyss. Rest is an option, as it is Bibarel's only form of recovery, and can be run over Protect. However, it should only be used in conjunction with a cleric, or else Bibarel will just sleep uselessly for three turns.</p>

    <p>As mentioned before, a cleric is highly recommended, even if not running Rest. Wish passing is also a great boon, as Bibarel lacks the reliable recovery necessary to be a premier wall. Both Audino, Leafeon, and Lickilicky can provide Wish and Heal Bell support. Toxic Spikes are quite helpful, as it eases up the load for Bibarel. Garbodor and Whirlipede are both great options for this task, and both handily resist Bibarel's Grass- and Fighting-type weaknesses. Dual screen support also goes a long way in aiding Bibarel's bulk; once again, Audino is great for this, as is Mesprit and Meganium.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With Work Up and Simple, Bibarel can transform into a mixed sweeper. He also has access to Rain Dance, which boosts his Water-type STAB, as well as Sunny Day. Yawn is great for causing switches, and is viable on the Specially Defensive set. Finally, Taunt and Super Fang work together nicely for breaking down walls, but Raticate is much better at this task due to its higher Speed. Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for higher damage output, at the cost of Accuracy.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Strong physical Fighting-, Grass, and Electric-type attacks can easily wreck Bibarel; Emboar, Torterra, and Luxray are all prime candidates for this. Both sets have a huge Taunt weakness, and there are many users of this move in the tier, such as Murkrow and Fraxure. Both Toxic and Toxic Spikes easily break down the Unaware set; Quagsire often carries the first, while Garbodor is a great user of the second. Quagsire also ignores any stat boosts from the Curse set thanks to Unaware. Frillish is immune to both of Bibarel's STAB moves, making it a solid counter as well. Finally, although Gorebyss struggles with the Unaware set, it can easily break through the Curse set, as it resists Bibarel's main STAB, Waterfall.</p>[/QUOTE]
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,574
    From the Research Thread

  3. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    ...Dear lord, what can Bibarel even do anymore!?
  4. Vein

    Vein

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,340
    HM Slave j/k

    He can be a good Unaware SR lead in the tier with a lot of good support moves in TWave, Toxic, Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Taunt.

    It seems he can also be a good Work-up user... in the tier at least.
  5. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    Yeah, I'm gonna do a complete revamp of this sometime later... When sober... Right now, fuuuuck, this mon sucks...
  6. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Contributor to Smogon Social Mediais a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,801
    To add insult to injury Hidden Power can't be Normal lol.
  7. FakeHaydenTroll

    FakeHaydenTroll

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    He can run a pretty decent anti-stall set with Taunt, Super Fang, Swagger, and Waterfall.
  8. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    Mmk, let's give this a second shot, yeah?
  9. FakeHaydenTroll

    FakeHaydenTroll

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    You should mention Thunder Wave on the Unaware set, it's much better for Gorebyss, Butterfree and the like. Maybe put Super Fang in OO?
  10. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Contributor to Smogon Social Mediais a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,801
    [​IMG]

    I was gonna be like "WALLBREAKER SET" but then I realized its not even the best Super Fang user in NU (Raticate outclasses it hard with higher speed, Guts, priority, etc).
  11. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    Also, Golbat.

    [​IMG]
  12. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    canada's like

    20 minutes from my house

    CANADA EH

    [​IMG]
  13. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    GP can have its way with this now :)
  14. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,054
    Jelli on the first set, when you mention WishPassers, spare a sentence for Leafeon, since: it has great type synergy, since bib resists fire and ice, and defensive synergy (bib is specially defensive, leaf is phsically defensive)

    Oh yeah and heal bell can wake it up
  15. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    Added him in, thanks ^.^
  16. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    [​IMG]

    1/2

    am i forgiven for stealing vgc jellicent from you now ;_____;

    copypastable (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>The transition to BW has not been kind for everyone's favorite HM slave. While Bibarel briefly enjoyed success with his new ability, Moody, its quick banishment <moody is now a clause ban like ohko moves, it's banned from ubers too> left in the dust once more. To make matters worse, Baton Passed boosts aren't doubled by Simple, meaning if this beaver wants to sweep, he'll have to set up on his own. He also faces stiff competition from Quagsire for the role of an Unaware tank. He does have a few tricks up his sleeves, however, so don't completely write off this silly looking rodent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Simple
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to Simple, each time Bibarel uses Curse, it is the equivalent of both a Swords Dance and an Iron Defense boost, at the complete sacrifice of his Speed. Waterfall provides excellent coverage for a mono-attacker, resisted only by Water-, Grass-, and the rare Dragon-types. Rest is the only form of recovery available to Bibarel, which is a requirement for his success. Sleep Talk allows him to continue boosting and attacking while he slumbers.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers is the item of choice, as it provides Bibarel with some much needed health. The EVs and nature maximize his special bulk, as Curse will quickly boost his physical defense. The remaining 4 EVs are dropped into Defense for added bulk. Chesto Berry is an alternative item option, instantly waking Bibarel after Rest. When using it, Bibarel can afford to run either Return or Quick Attack over Sleep Talk. While Return offers a greater damage output, Quick Attack is useful priority that makes up for his abysmal Speed.</p>

    <p>Teammates that can remove Grass-, Water-, and Dragon-types greatly increase Bibarel's effectiveness. Ice-type attackers, such as Cyrogonal, Glaceon, Piloswine, and Sneasel, can handle Grass- and Dragon-types with ease, while Exeggutor, Torterra, and Eelektross are all prime options for dealing with other Water-types. A Wish passer makes a wonderful partner, as Bibarel's biggest issue is his lack of reliable recovery; Lickilicky, Alomomola, and Audino are all great for this role, though all three unfortunately share weaknesses with Bibarel. Leafeon, however, has good type synergy, and is more physically defensive, though its Wishes are smaller. As with any sweeper, entry hazards are a plus for scoring more KOs. Cacturne and Garbodor are excellent Spikers, while Mesprit and Bastiodon provide reliable Stealth Rock support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Return / Waterfall
    move 4: Protect / Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Unaware
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take advantage of Unaware, a wonderful ability for a defensive Pokemon. Thanks to Unaware, Bibarel ignores stat boosts; even after a Shell Smash, Gorebyss can only 3HKO him. Toxic is useful for wearing down foes, but Thunder Wave is a great choice for stopping a Gorebyss sweep cold. Stealth Rock is one of the few things Bibarel has to differentiate itself from Quagsire, so it should always be used. Return is Bibarel's strongest attack, and his best option in case he gets Taunted. Protect is useful for gaining added Leftovers health and wearing the foe down further with Toxic.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Bibarel's special bulk to best allow him to take on they likes of Gorebyss. Waterfall can be used over Return, and offers better neutral coverage, but it is less effective against Gorebyss. Rest is an option, as it is Bibarel's only form of recovery, and can be run over Protect. However, it should only be used in conjunction with a cleric, or else Bibarel will just sleep useless for three turns.</p>

    <p>As mentioned before, a cleric is highly recommended, even if not running Rest. Wish passing is also a great boon, as Bibarel lacks the reliable recovery necessary to be a premier wall. Both Audino, Leafeon, and Lickilicky can provide Wish and Heal Bell support. Toxic Spikes are quite helpful, as it eases up the load for Bibarel. Garbodor and Whirlipede are both great options for this task, and both handily resist Bibarel's Grass- and Fighting-type weaknesses. Dual screen support also goes a long way in aiding Bibarel's bulk; once again, Audino is great for this, as is Mesprit and Meganium.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With Work Up and Simple, Bibarel can transform into a mixed sweeper. He also has access to Rain Dance, which boosts his Water-type STAB, as well as Sunny Day. Yawn is great for causing switches, and is viable on the Specially Defensive set. Finally, Taunt and Super Fang work together nicely for breaking down walls, but Raticate is much better at this task due to its higher Speed. Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for higher damage output, at the cost of Accuracy.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Strong physical Fighting-, Grass, and Electric-type attacks can easily wreck Bibarel; Emboar, Torterra, and Luxray are all prime candidates for this. Both sets have a huge Taunt weakness, and there are many users of this move in the tier, such as <examples>. Both Toxic and Toxic Spikes easily break down the Unaware set; Quagsire often counters the first <what does this mean? it commonly uses Toxic? it sounds like you mean it counters the set, which is a little strange>, while Garbodor is a great user of the second. Quagsire also ignores any stat boosts from the Curse set thanks to Unaware, or just walls it easily with Water Absorb <is this used?>. Frillish is immune to both of Bibarel's STAB moves, making it a solid counter as well. Finally, though Gorebyss struggles with the Unaware set, it can easily break through the Curse set, as it resists Bibarel's main STAB, Waterfall.</p>
  17. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    Of course, sirn! Thank you ^.^

    Ready for check #2
  18. Evire

    Evire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    137
    Stamp Me?

    Add/Edit
    Remove

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>The transition to BW has not been kind for to everyone's favorite HM slave. While Bibarel briefly enjoyed success with his new ability, Moody, its quick banishment left in the dust once more. To make matters worse, Baton Passed boosts aren't doubled by Simple, meaning if this beaver wants to sweep, he'll have to set up on his own. He also faces stiff competition from Quagsire for the role of an Unaware tank. He does have a few tricks up his sleeves, however, so don't completely write off this silly looking rodent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Simple
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to Simple, each time Bibarel uses Curse, it is the equivalent of both a Swords Dance and an Iron Defense boost, at the complete sacrifice of his Speed. Waterfall provides excellent coverage for a mono-attacker, resisted only by Water-, Grass-, and the rare Dragon-types. Rest is the only form of recovery available to Bibarel, which is a requirement for his success. Sleep Talk allows him to continue boosting and attacking while he slumbers.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Leftovers is the item of choice, as it provides Bibarel with some much needed health. The EVs and nature maximize his special bulk, as Curse will quickly boost his physical defense. The remaining 4 EVs are dropped into Defense for added bulk. Chesto Berry is an alternative item option, instantly waking Bibarel after Rest. When using it, Bibarel can afford to run either Return or Quick Attack over Sleep Talk. While Return offers a greater damage output, Quick Attack is useful priority that makes up for his abysmal Speed.</p>

    <p>Teammates that can remove Grass-, Water-, and Dragon-types greatly increase Bibarel's effectiveness. Ice-type attackers, such as Cyrogonal, Glaceon, Piloswine, and Sneasel, can handle Grass- and Dragon-types with ease, while Exeggutor, Torterra, and Eelektross are all prime options for dealing with other Water-types. A Wish passer makes a wonderful partner, as Bibarel's biggest issue is his lack of reliable recovery; Lickilicky, Alomomola, and Audino are all great for this role, though all three unfortunately share weaknesses with Bibarel. Leafeon, however, has good type synergy, and is more physically defensive, though its Wishes are smaller. As with any sweeper, entry hazards are a plus for scoring more KOs. Cacturne and Garbodor are excellent Spikers, while Mesprit and Bastiodon can provide reliable Stealth Rock support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Return / Waterfall
    move 4: Protect / Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Unaware
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to take advantage of Unaware, a wonderful ability for a defensive Pokemon. Thanks to Unaware, Bibarel ignores stat boosts; even after a Shell Smash, Gorebyss can only 3HKO him. Toxic is useful for wearing down foes, but Thunder Wave is a great choice for stopping a Gorebyss sweep cold. Stealth Rock is one of the few things Bibarel has to differentiate itself from Quagsire, so it should always be used. Return is Bibarel's strongest attack, and his best option in case he gets Taunted. Protect is useful for gaining added Leftovers health and wearing the foe down further with Toxic.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Bibarel's special bulk to best allow him to take on they likes of Gorebyss. Waterfall can be used over Return, and offers better neutral coverage, but it is less effective against Gorebyss. Rest is an option, as it is Bibarel's only form of recovery, and can be run over Protect. However, it should only be used in conjunction with a cleric, or else Bibarel will just sleep uselessly for three turns.</p>

    <p>As mentioned before, a cleric is highly recommended, even if not running Rest. Wish passing is also a great boon, as Bibarel lacks the reliable recovery necessary to be a premier wall. Both Audino, Leafeon, and Lickilicky can provide Wish and Heal Bell support. Toxic Spikes are quite helpful, as it eases up the load for Bibarel. Garbodor and Whirlipede are both great options for this task, and both handily resist Bibarel's Grass- and Fighting-type weaknesses. Dual screen support also goes a long way in aiding Bibarel's bulk; once again, Audino is great for this, as is Mesprit and Meganium.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With Work Up and Simple, Bibarel can transform into a mixed sweeper. He also has access to Rain Dance, which boosts his Water-type STAB, as well as Sunny Day. Yawn is great for causing switches, and is viable on the Specially Defensive set. Finally, Taunt and Super Fang work together nicely for breaking down walls, but Raticate is much better at this task due to its higher Speed. Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for higher damage output, at the cost of Accuracy.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Strong physical Fighting-, Grass, and Electric-type attacks can easily wreck Bibarel; Emboar, Torterra, and Luxray are all prime candidates for this. Both sets have a huge Taunt weakness, and there are many users of this move in the tier, such as Murkrow and Fraxure. Both Toxic and Toxic Spikes easily break down the Unaware set; Quagsire often carries the first, while Garbodor is a great user of the second. Quagsire also ignores any stat boosts from the Curse set thanks to Unaware. Frillish is immune to both of Bibarel's STAB moves, making it a solid counter as well. Finally, although Gorebyss struggles with the Unaware set, it can easily break through the Curse set, as it resists Bibarel's main STAB, Waterfall.</p>[/QUOTE]

    It's all that I could find that was wrong with it.
  19. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    Implemented, thanks :)
  20. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    Stamping Evire's check

    GP 2/2
  21. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    Guess this can get uploaded, then :)
  22. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Contributor to Smogon Social Mediais a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,801

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)