Bibarel

[Dundies]

QC: TONE114 / Raiza / Magnemite
GP: The Dutch Plumberjack / P Squared

[OVERVIEW]

Despite its amazing ability in Simple, Bibarel is still outclassed by common Water-types in the PU metagame such as Barbaracle and Carracosta. Although Bibarel's bulk isn't great, it is able to set up on weaker foes, such as Pelipper and Clefairy. On the downside, it is easily checked by many common Pokemon in the metagame, such as Tangela, Misdreavus, and Gourgeist-XL. Its mediocre bulk also makes it easy to take out before it gets the chance to set up, and even when it has set up it is still revenge killed by Pokemon such as Simipour, Simisage, and Zebstrika. Additionally, Bibarel is fairly passive, making it easy for strong, fast Pokemon to either set up on it or revenge kill it, though it can pick its foes off with Quick Attack. Because Water-types are so common in the PU metagame, it is hard to fit Bibarel on a team over Pokemon such as Carracosta, Simipour, and Barbaracle.

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Quick Attack
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Simple
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thanks to Simple, Curse boosts Bibarel's Attack and Defense by two stages, but it lowers its Speed by two stages as well. Waterfall is one of Bibarel's most reliable STAB attacks that can deal good damage to Pokemon that are immune to Quick Attack, such as Misdreavus. Quick Attack helps to make up for Bibarel's lack of Speed after a Curse, as it can deal a lot of damage at +2 as well as pick off weakened foes. Rest allows Bibarel to heal up to full health and alleviate any inflicted status at no cost along with Chesto Berry.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP investment along with maximum Special Defense investment and a Careful nature maximizes the amount of damage Bibarel can take from special attacks, while the remaining 4 EVs are placed into Attack to deal a bit more damage to Bibarel's foes. Simple is used to double any stat changes, making Curse more effective. A Chesto Berry is used along with Rest to fully heal Bibarel's health and alleviate any status that has been inflicted upon it.

Usage Tips
========

Bibarel should aim to set up on Pokemon that can deal little damage to it and can't phaze it, such as Pelipper and Clefairy. It can also set up on Pokemon that it forces out, such as Armaldo and Piloswine. Once Bibarel is low on health or inflicted with status, it should use Rest in order to heal itself, making it easier to sweep. Bibarel can also be brought in against weakened foes to revenge kill them with Quick Attack. Generally, Bibarel should wait until the late-game, when its checks have been weakened, to set up, allowing it to sweep. However, Bibarel can also be used as an early-game wallbreaker, as it can deal decent damage with a boost up. Bibarel should not be switched into strong physical attacks, especially if it is weakened, but it can switch into attacks that it resists or is immune to, such as Dusknoir's Shadow Sneak and Pelipper's Scald. It can also be brought in safely by a slow Volt Switch or U-turn from Pokemon such as Probopass and Vullaby.

Team Options
========

Bibarel fits best on balanced and offensive teams, as it requires support to take on its weaknesses, but it can also sweep late-game. Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes support from Pokemon such as Piloswine, Probopass, Quilladin, and Roselia is helpful for wearing down Bibarel's checks. Bibarel appreciates wallbreakers such as Stoutland and Simisage, as they can hit bulkier foes hard, making it easier for Bibarel to sweep. Grass-types such as Roselia and Gourgeist synergize well with Bibarel as they check Water-types such as Barbaracle, which Bibarel has trouble handling, as well as take opposing Electric-type attacks, which Bibarel is weak to. Zebstrika is a good partner for Bibarel, as it can take on bulky Water- and Grass-types that trouble Bibarel. Pokemon that resist Fighting-type moves, such as Pelipper and Arbok, are also helpful to Bibarel. Bibarel also appreciates spinners and Defoggers such as Armaldo and Pelipper, which help to prevent Bibarel from being worn down by entry hazards. Users of a slower Volt Switch or U-turn such as Probopass and Vibrava are helpful to get Bibarel in safely. Misdreavus is one of Bibarel's biggest checks, so Pokemon that can take it on, such as Scrappy Stoutland and Ninetales, make for good partners.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bibarel can also make use of a lead set with Stealth Rock, Scald, Taunt, and Thunder Wave to prevent opposing leads from setting up entry hazards, though it is completely outclassed by Barbaracle. Maranga Berry can also be used to allow Bibarel to take more special attacks, though it loses out on Chesto Berry, which grants it a form of relatively reliable recovery along with Rest. It can also be used as a Rain Dance lead, though it is outclassed by Relicanth, which can take any one hit with Sturdy. Amnesia can be used to severely boost Bibarel's Special Defense, but it becomes even more passive and forced to either rely on one attack or lose its only form of healing in Rest.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Grass-types**: Bulkier Grass-types such as Tangela, Quilladin, and Gourgeist-XL can all take at least one hit from Bibarel, even at +2, and KO in return with their STAB moves; Quilladin can also use Roar to phaze it or even set up Spikes.

**Water-types**: Water-types such as Carracosta and Barbaracle can relatively safely take hits from Bibarel and set up on it with Shell Smash.

**Fighting-types**: Machoke can take any hit from Bibarel and retaliate with a super effective STAB attack, whereas Monferno can revenge kill with Close Combat but cannot take a Waterfall.

**Strong Attackers**: Stoutland and Grumpig can both take a +2 Quick Attack from Bibarel and, in return, deal a lot of damage to it with Superpower and Focus Blast, respectively.

 

[MZ]

Ok, cool joke. Change to lead rocks now please. Sash, Twave over rain dance

 

[Dundies]

ok ready for QC check

(anty told me to do this set btw)

 

[TONE]

In Team Options, mention that Grass-types also handle Water-types as well for Bibarel. Also remove the mention of Whirlipede as they fit on different teams. Also mention more examples of Pokemon that can take out bulky Water and Grass-types. For Checks and Counters, change Grass-types to Bulky Grass-types and give more examples (Quilladin can set up Spikes, use Roar, etc.). Tbh, the Ghost-types mention can be removed as Misdreavus falls under Taunt users and Gourgeist-XL falls under Bulky Grass-types (unless you want to count Frillish as relevant as it does wall Bibarel, but you get what I mean).

1/3.

 

[Dundies]

implemented

 

[Raiza]

[OVERVIEW]
well I wouldn't say it has that great of bulk (60/60 is terrible), and i would still mention that its bulk is mediocre and it can't set up on the majority of the tier anyway bc its offensive focused
also replace torkoal there as it can shell smash on bibarel and deal massive damage
mention this is taunt bait for pokemon such as missy

Usage Tips
========
same, replace torkoal
mention bibarel can set up on pokemon it forces out
mention bibarel can be used also early- to mid- game as a wallbreaker
mention it can be brought in by slow voltturn or baton pass

Team Options
========
uhh i don't think grumpig is the really best wallbreaker out there, i'd replace it
mention slow voltturn and baton pass users
mention Pokemon that can deal with Misdreavus, bc it can taunt bibarel and prevent it from setting up

Checks and Counters
===================
mention phazers

Simipour QC 2/3

 

[Dundies]

implemented and written up

 

[Dundies]

I will be gone until Saturday, and I will be unable to work on this until then. When Saturday comes, I will be able to work on this again so please don't reassign.

 

[Dundies]

back and ready for the last check

 

[Anty]

I think i mentioned this to your before, but the first line i still think isnt too clear. Maybe reword it to 'Despite its unique ability Simple (note: that isnt unique in pu), it is still outclassed..'
Also im not sure if simipour/wrath are the best comparisons for it, esp since it is a late game cleaner. I guess it might be best to compare it with baracle/costa as they are also late game cleaners(?)

Also i think this should be a more offensive spread, as currently you are incredibly weak (its a role to 2HKO raichu at +2 lmao), and though special defense could be nice arent you trying to set up on weak shit like peli then spamming quick attack late game? other qc opinions pls

If the opponent has a phazer such as Poliwrath or Grumpig, Bibarel should wait until said phazer is weakened or taken out to set up.

This i feel is misleading as you probably shouldnt set up at all if the opp has a poliwrath, no matter what said, grumpig isnt taking +2 waterfalls well (also offensive sets which are more common destroy you w/ focus blast), and most significantly, biberal isnt a mon where you can only set up with once; if it gets whirlwinded, it doesnt exactly care

Bibarel can also be used as a late game wallbreaker, as it can deal decent damage with a boost up

I assume you mean early game wallbreaker

Instead, it can be brought in safely by a slow Volt Switch or U-turn from Pokemon such as Probopass and Vullaby.

Nothing wrong with this statement, but 'instead' isnt the right word to use here as it kinda conflicts with your 'but' statement. I think 'It can also..' works better

Bibarel fits best on balanced teams, as it requires offensive support to take out its checks, but it can also sweep late game

The reasoning is flawed as there is more offensive support on offensive teams

Grass-types such as Roselia and Tangela synergize well with Bibarel and can take on Water-types such as Poliwrath that it is weak to, as they can take on opposing Electric- and Grass-type attacks that Bibarel is weak to.

This doesnt make sense z_z

Also in TO you should mention more ways to deal with grass types (zebby is a shaky check and just grass types that check grass types isnt enough imo as that too isnt reliable)

Bibarel can also make use of a lead set with Stealth Rock, Scald, Taunt, and Thunder Wave to prevent opposing leads from setting up hazards, though it is mainly outclassed by Barbaracle.

I wouldnt say mainly rather than completely, as bibarels filler moves are nowhere near as good as baracles power

Also mention maranga berry in oo (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Maranga_Berry)

c&c:
seriously whats with this c&c taunt fetish o_o. Grumpig would just chose to KO it with focus blast + psychic and doesnt like taking physical hits, whereas misdreavus should have its own section (well maybe a **Ghost-types** but we have 2 relevant ones and you have mentioned gourg already)
Also phasers i dont think should have its own section, as they are really rare and it doesnt take too much damage from either hit if at +2
There should also be a section for strong attackers/special attacker/offensive mons (i dont know what to call it tbh) - basically offensive mons that can take a +2 quick attack and do a decent amount back

Simipour , im not stamping yet due to the set issue + there are a lot of changes in c&c

 

[Dundies]

ok ive implemented everything except changing the EV spread. i figured i would wait for other QC input

edit: Anty i did some calcs and i honestly dont think an offensive spread is worth it. even adamant max atk at +2 cant even ko stuff like raichu and zeb after rocks. i honestly just think its better to stick with max hp max spdef, as bibarel can take a hit from most special attacking stuff that tries to RK and KOes with waterfall + quick attack. thoughts?

 

[Magnemite]

remove nu mons

3/3

 

[Dundies]

did

 

[Lumari]

remove
add (Capitalize / Fix)
(comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)

bibarel

[OVERVIEW]

Despite its unique ability in Simple, Bibarel is still outclassed by common Water-types in the PU tier such as Barbaracle and Carracosta. Although Bibarel's bulk isn't great, it is able to set up on weaker foes, such as Pelipper and Clefairy. On the downside, it is easily checked by many common Pokemon in the tier, namely Tangela, Misdreavus, and Gourgeist-XL. It's Its mediocre bulk also makes it easy to take out before it gets the change to set up, (AC) and it is Taunt bait to Pokemon such as Misdreavus and Grumpig. Additionally, It is extremely passive, making it easy for strong, fast Pokemon to either set up on it or revenge kill it, though it can pick its foes off with Quick Attack. Since Because Water-types are so common in the PU metagame, it is hard to fit Bibarel on a team over Pokemon such as Carracosta, Simipour, and Barbaracle. (or merge this one with the first sentence by adding "which it is hard to justify its usage over", kinda prefer that one tbqh)

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Quick Attack
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Simple
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thanks to Simple, Curse boosts Bibarel's Attack and Defense by two stages thanks to Simple, but it lowers its Speed by two stages as well. Waterfall is one of Bibarel's most reliable STAB attacks that can deal good damage to Pokemon that are immune to Quick Attack, (AC) such as Misdreavus. Quick Attack helps to make up for Bibarel's lack of Speed after a Curse, as it can deal a lot of damage at +2 as well as pick off weakened foes. Rest allows Bibarel to heal up to full health and alleviate any inflicted status at no cost along with Chesto Berry.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP investment along with maximum Special Defense investment and a Careful nature maximizes the amount of damage from special attacks that Bibarel can take, while the remaining 4 EVs are placed into Attack to deal a bit more damage to Bibarel's foes. Simple is used to double any stat changes, making Curse more effective. A Chesto Berry is used along with Rest to fully heal Bibarel's health and alleviate any status that has been inflicted upon it.

Usage Tips
========

Bibarel should aim to set up on Pokemon that can deal little damage to it and can't phaze it out, such as Pelipper and Clefairy. It can also set up on Pokemon that it forces out, (AC) such as Armaldo and Piloswine. Once Bibarel is low on health or inflicted with status, it should use Rest in order to heal itself, making it easier to sweep. Bibarel can also be brought in against weakened foes to revenge kill them with Quick Attack. Generally, Bibarel should wait until the late game, (AC) when its checks are have been weakened, (AC) to set up, allowing it to sweep. However, Bibarel can also be used as an early-game wallbreaker, as it can deal decent damage with a boost up. Bibarel should not be switched into strong physical attacks, especially if it is weakened, but it can switch into attacks that it resists or is immune to, such as Dusknoir's Shadow Sneak or and Pelipper's Scald. It can also be brought in safely by a slow Volt Switch or U-turn from Pokemon such as Probopass and Vullaby.

Team Options
========

Bibarel fits best on balanced teams, as it requires support to take on its weaknesses, but it can also sweep late-game. (add hyphen) Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes support from Pokemon such as Piloswine, Probopass, Roselia, and Quilladin, and Roselia (RC) is helpful for wearing down Bibarel's checks as well as breaking opposing Sturdy and Focus Sash. Bibarel appreciates wallbreakers such as Stoutland and Simisage, as they can hit bulkier foes hard, making it easier for Bibarel to sweep. Grass-types such as Roselia and Tangela synergize well with Bibarel and can take on Water-types such as Barbaracle, (AC) that it is weak to, which Bibarel has trouble handling, as well as take hits from opposing Electric-type attacks, (AC) that which Bibarel is weak to. Zebstrika is a good partner for Bibarel, as it can take on bulky Water- and Grass-types that it is weak to trouble Bibarel. Pokemon such as Clefairy and Misdreavus that resist Fighting-type moves, (AC) such as Clefairy and Misdreavus, (AC) are helpful to Bibarel to check one of its most common weaknesses. Bibarel also appreciates Rapid Spinners and Defoggers such as Armaldo and Vullaby, which help to prevent Bibarel from being worn down by entry hazards. Users of a slower Volt Switch and U-turn such as Probopass and Vullaby are helpful to get Bibarel in safely without taking unnecessary damage. Misdreavus is one of Bibarel's biggest checks, so Pokemon such as Scrappy Stoutland and Ninetales that can take it on, (AC) such as Scrappy Stoutland and Ninetales, (AC) make for good partners for Bibarel.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bibarel can also make use of a lead set with Stealth Rock, Scald, Taunt, and Thunder Wave to prevent opposing leads from setting up entry hazards, though it is completely outclassed by Barbaracle. Maranga Berry can also be used to allow Bibarel to take more special attacks, though it loses out on Chesto Berry, which grants it a form of relatively reliable recovery along with Rest. It can also be used as a Rain Dance lead, though it is outclassed by Relicanth, who which can take any one hit with Sturdy. Amnesia can be used to severely boost Bibarel's Special Defense, but it becomes even more passive and is forced to either rely on one attack or it loses lose its only form of healing in Rest. Bibarel can also make use of an mixed offensive Work Up set, though it remains to be very slow and it is easily revenge killed.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Grass-types**: Bulkier Grass-types such as Tangela, Quilladin, Gourgeist-XL, and Torterra can all take at least one hit from Bibarel, even at +2, and KO in return with Giga Drain, Seed Bomb, and Wood Hammer, respectively their STAB moves; Quilladin can also use Roar to phase phaze it out or even set up Spikes, (AC) while Torterra can set up Stealth Rock.

**Water-types**: Water-types such as Barbaracle can relatively safely take hits from Bibarel and the latter can KO it with Focus Blast while the former can set up on it with Shell Smash. (what former?)

**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types such as Machoke can take any hit from Bibarel and retaliate with a super effective STAB attack.

**Strong Attackers**: Pokemon such as (you're not discussing the category, you specifically discuss these two; rewrite it a bit if that's not what you intended) Stoutland and Grumpig can both take a +2 Quick Attack from Bibarel and in return, deal a lot of damage to it with Superpower and Focus Blast, respectively.

GP 1/2

 

[Dundies]

implemented

 

[P Squared]

GP 2/2

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Despite its unique ability in Simple, Bibarel is still outclassed by common Water-types in the PU tier metagame such as Barbaracle and Carracosta. Although Bibarel's bulk isn't great, it is able to set up on weaker foes, such as Pelipper and Clefairy. On the downside, it is easily checked by many common Pokemon in the tier metagame, namely Tangela, Misdreavus, and Gourgeist-XL. Its mediocre bulk also makes it easy to take out before it gets the change chance to set up, and it is Taunt bait to for Pokemon such as Misdreavus and Grumpig. Additionally, It Bibarel is extremely passive, making it easy for strong, fast Pokemon to either set up on it or revenge kill it, though it can pick its foes off with Quick Attack. Because Water-types are so common in the PU metagame, it is hard to fit Bibarel on a team over Pokemon such as Carracosta, Simipour, and Barbaracle.

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Quick Attack
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Simple
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thanks to Simple, Curse boosts Bibarel's Attack and Defense by two stages, but it lowers its Speed by two stages as well. Waterfall is one of Bibarel's most reliable STAB attacks can deal good damage to Pokemon that are immune to Quick Attack, such as Misdreavus. Quick Attack helps to make up for Bibarel's lack of Speed after a Curse, as it can deal a lot of damage at +2 as well as pick off weakened foes. Rest allows Bibarel to heal up to full health and alleviate any inflicted status at no cost along with Chesto Berry.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP investment along with maximum Special Defense investment and a Careful nature maximizes the amount of damage Bibarel can take from special attacks that Bibarel can take, while the remaining 4 EVs are placed into Attack to deal a bit more damage to Bibarel's foes. Simple is used to double any stat changes, making Curse more effective. A Chesto Berry is used along with Rest to fully heal Bibarel's health and alleviate any status that has been inflicted upon it.

Usage Tips
========

Bibarel should aim to set up on Pokemon that can deal little damage to it and can't phaze it, such as Pelipper and Clefairy. It can also set up on Pokemon that it forces out, such as Armaldo and Piloswine. Once Bibarel is low on health or inflicted with status, it should use Rest in order to heal itself, making it easier to sweep. Bibarel can also be brought in against weakened foes to revenge kill them with Quick Attack. Generally, Bibarel should wait until the late-game, when its checks have been weakened, to set up, allowing it to sweep. However, Bibarel can also be used as an early-game wallbreaker, as it can deal decent damage with a boost up. Bibarel should not be switched into strong physical attacks, especially if it is weakened, but it can switch into attacks that it resists or is immune to, such as Dusknoir's Shadow Sneak and Pelipper's Scald. It can also be brought in safely by a slow Volt Switch or U-turn from Pokemon such as Probopass and Vullaby.

Team Options
========

Bibarel fits best on balanced teams, as it requires support to take on its weaknesses, but it can also sweep late-game. Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes support from Pokemon such as Piloswine, Probopass, Quilladin, and Roselia, (RC) is helpful for wearing down Bibarel's checks as well as breaking opposing Sturdy and Focus Sash. Bibarel appreciates wallbreakers such as Stoutland and Simisage, as they can hit bulkier foes hard, making it easier for Bibarel to sweep. Grass-types such as Roselia and Tangela synergize well with Bibarel and can take on Water-types such as Barbaracle, which Bibarel has trouble handling, as well as take opposing Electric-type attacks, which Bibarel is weak to. Zebstrika is a good partner for Bibarel, as it can take on bulky Water- and Grass-types that trouble Bibarel. Pokemon that resist Fighting-type moves, such as Clefairy and Misdreavus, are helpful to Bibarel to check one of its most common weaknesses. Bibarel also appreciates Rapid Sspinners and Defoggers such as Armaldo and Vullaby, which help to prevent Bibarel from being worn down by entry hazards. Users of a slower Volt Switch and or U-turn such as Probopass and Vullaby are helpful to get Bibarel in safely. Misdreavus is one of Bibarel's biggest checks, so Pokemon that can take it on, such as Scrappy Stoutland and Ninetales, make for good partners.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bibarel can also make use of a lead set with Stealth Rock, Scald, Taunt, and Thunder Wave to prevent opposing leads from setting up entry hazards, though it is completely outclassed by Barbaracle. Maranga Berry can also be used to allow Bibarel to take more special attacks, though it loses out on Chesto Berry, which grants it a form of relatively reliable recovery along with Rest. It can also be used as a Rain Dance lead, though it is outclassed by Relicanth, which can take any one hit with Sturdy. Amnesia can be used to severely boost Bibarel's Special Defense, but it becomes even more passive and forced to either rely on one attack or lose its only form of healing in Rest. Bibarel can also make use of an mixed offensive Work Up set, though it remains very slow and it is easily revenge killed.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Grass-types**: Bulkier Grass-types such as Tangela, Quilladin, and Gourgeist-XL can all take at least one hit from Bibarel, even at +2, and KO in return with their STAB moves; Quilladin can also use Roar to phaze it or even set up Spikes.

**Water-types**: Water-types such as Barbaracle can relatively safely take hits from Bibarel and set up on it with Shell Smash.

**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types such as Machoke can take any hit from Bibarel and retaliate with a super effective STAB attack.

**Strong Attackers**: Stoutland and Grumpig can both take a +2 Quick Attack from Bibarel and, (AC) in return, deal a lot of damage to it with Superpower and Focus Blast, respectively.

 

[Dundies]

thanks, this is done :]

 

[Anty]

uploading