1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

*Big* News for breeding in XY.

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Reikai, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. lucariojr

    lucariojr it's nothing to sneasel at
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,576
    it might've pulled stats from mainly the ditto and the bad spD from the froakie.
  2. Scepticallistic

    Scepticallistic

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,311
    The Destiny Knot is a guaranteed 5.

    To elaborate on what lucariojr said:

    Your parents are 31/x/x/31/x/x and x/x/x/x/31/31.

    The baby can inherit 5 of those 12 IVs. To fulfill your requirement, the HP must be an inherited IV (I'm not sure the formula/probability of inheriting from a parent and of being randomly generated) and it must pull from the Frogadier (50% chance). The same must happen with Special Attack and Speed. Ignoring all the other factors and just looking at the 3 stats in question, you have a 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 chance of getting the 3 perfect IVs you want, or 1 in 8 eggs. Of course, this is assuming that HP, Sp Attack, and Speed are the IVs chosen to be inherited from the parents.
  3. Master WGS

    Master WGS

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    OH so the Destiny Knot isn't forcing 5 from the parent holding it, but 5 from both parents combined? I assumed that the parent holding the Destiny Knot was having 5 of its 6 stats transferred, leaving the one left to the other parent.

    EDIT: Okay, yeah - rereading the OP with this in mind, that makes much more sense. My mistake.
  4. ApathyandToast

    ApathyandToast

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    177
    I assume it can't force the same stat from both parents? ie. Spending 2 of the 5 "forces" on HP alone.
  5. Wendrika

    Wendrika

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    It seems there are greater forces at work that we're missing here. I'm getting way too many eggs with just three perfect IVs or less, even when the parents have perfect IVs all round. It is statistically implausible, unless...

    According to Bulbapedia, the game first checks for a random IV to inherit from either parent, then does the same for another IV other than HP, then again for another IV other than HP and Def. If the game picks Atk for the first check, and the second check also picks Atk, then the second call for inheritance is skipped, and the third check can never be Atk, HP or Def.

    My theory is that with Destiny Knot equipped, the first 3 stats are all picked from the entire stat pool, with checks being skipped in case of repetittion, and the last two out of five checks can pick any but HP and HP and Def. This needs research that I'm in no way qualified to pursue, however.

    Our odds are still good, so much that my calculator makes a smiley face whenever I crunch this data.
  6. ShadowyKatana

    ShadowyKatana Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    55
    I'm glad getting perfect IVs is it least much easier than the past generations when even one perfect IV was like a gift from the god, then again we also had RNG to help us back then. lol.
    OmegaForte likes this.
  7. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    806
    It is so much easier. Although it took me 2 days, I finally got my Adamant flawless speed boost Torchic. Funny thing was I got 2 in a row. Too bad the second one wasn't a female, or I'd have 2 flawless parents to breed countless perfect Torchics. XD
    Phadunk likes this.
  8. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,547
    This has happened twice in one day to me. I'm glad I'm not the only one suffering "getting two of your target IV spread on your last egg batch" syndrome.

    Clearly the Destiny Knot is taunting us.
    OmegaForte and lucariojr like this.
  9. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,093
    Master WGS
    The probability here is actually a bit lower. First, the destiny knot must select the IVs you're looking for. You want 3 IVs, which is a 3/6 chance of the destiny knot even picking HP, Speed, and Special Attack to even pass. Then it multiplies by the % chance in each IV to select it. So start off with a 50% chance to pass HP, Speed, and Special attack, then multiply by a 50% chance to pass frogadier's HP, 50% to pass frogadier's special attack, and 50% to pass Ditto's Speed, leaving you with 1/16.
  10. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Pardon my ignorance, but if I have a Ditto with it's Hidden Ability, can I breed it with a Pokemon who does not and make their babies have their hidden abilities? There's been a lot of talk of Infiltrator Dragalgae, and I wanted to try and prove it.
  11. Master WGS

    Master WGS

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    Thanks for clarifying. So, though it's much much much easier than before, it's not quite as guaranteed as I originally thought. I'm pretty new to IV breeding in general, so thanks for being helpful/patient with my ignorance! Before the Destiny Knot discovery I lived in a world of "Parents might pass IVs but sometimes they don't? Idunno, hope for the best!" so this makes everything a lot clearer.

    That said, I'm still not totally clear on what can breed with what in regards to "family." I thought parents couldn't breed with their offspring, but I definitely had a Froakie(m) born from the aforementioned Ditto + Frogadier(f) breed with that same Frogadier(f). Was barring incestuous relationships ever a thing, or did I just assume that?
  12. Geodude6

    Geodude6 Look at my shiny CT!

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    281
    The game doesn't keep track of parents and offspring.
    Master WGS likes this.
  13. Phadunk

    Phadunk

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,297
    Lol Pokemon incest. Well GF does like to educate.
  14. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,547
    If, for some reason, some of you aren't comprehending the process of breeding flawless Pokemon with this mechanic change, I've written a short guide on how to breed flawless Pokemon in X&Y.
    Master WGS likes this.
  15. Ztstaffo

    Ztstaffo

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Lol, i got a level 20 with a modest nature, and sent it back out into the world since i was doing a chain, and i just got it back 5 trades later. Maybe its meant to be for me to have a modest natured honedge XD

    EDIT: My bad, i posted in wrong forum :/ You can delete if you want ;-;
  16. Larkas

    Larkas

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    It was back in Gen II, IIRC.
  17. Hidious

    Hidious

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    519
    Gen II barred incest. Pokemon breeding today encourages incest. In fact, pokemon breeding is very very "immoral," lol.

    So you two are related? Not my problem, I'm gonna go ride my bike until you have incest and lay an egg.

    So you two don't like each other? Not my problem, I'm gonna go ride my bike until one of you rapes the other and lays an egg.

    So your baby doesn't have the IV's I'm looking for? Sorry, but your child will just take up space in one of my boxes. I'm gonna have to throw it away.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  18. Wendrika

    Wendrika

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    How can you sleep at night?! That's terrible.

    You're not throwing them away. You repopulating the wild with once nearly extinct species. Just look at what we did in Unova after two years. Juniper was none the wiser, but it's the trainers fault we now have wild Riolu roaming around. Along other "rare" species.
  19. Master WGS

    Master WGS

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    Okay, so it was Gen II. Probably read that in a strategy guide or something and just assumed it had stayed that way.

    Anyway, progress report: worked my way to a quint-flawless timid Protean Froakie last night, so I guess I figured it out. Breeding with Marril now to spread to another egg group.
  20. Larkas

    Larkas

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    For the record, an NPC (where was him? I THINK that in the monorail town) says that Pokemon eggs are not really eggs, but a cradle of some kind. And Pokemon breeding is as much a mystery in-game as it has always been. I think that the developers want us to believe in some "stork hypothesis", but take from that what you will.

    Regardless, a somewhat stupid question: in Chesnaught's thread over at UT, a poster said that by breeding a female Chesnaught and a male Breloom, he could get a Chespin with Drain Punch. Several other posters said that they had no success in obtaining that move by using a male Smeargle or Mienfoo in the process. In the off-chance that the first poster wasn't mistaken, has the move-inheritance mechanics changed, i.e.: can some parents pass the move down while others can't? EXTREMELY unlikely, I know, but it doesn't hurt asking.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  21. Cap

    Cap

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    88
    Can you use destiny knot for 5 IV's and then use a power item to guarantee the 6th one? or is that useless because of nature importance?
  22. Manitary

    Manitary

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    276
    afaik the power item will lock one of the 5 IV's chose by Destiny Knot, so using both is mostly a waste (especially because of nature-passing, yes)
  23. Hidious

    Hidious

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    519
    Is Swanna the stork then?
  24. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,932
    what do you think delibird keeps in its bag?
    WildShot and Incoleo like this.
  25. Gokuzbu

    Gokuzbu

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    475
    Bred a Modest Ralts with 31/x/31/31/31/31. My first flawless pokemon in any game. Took a while though.
    Andrew and Green Thunder like this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)