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Bisharp (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Galladiator, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    [​IMG]

    BISHARP

    Dark / Steel

    Status: Edited in Calm Pokemaster's check, added GP stamp. Marking as done.

    QC Approved 3 / 3 [Iconic] [panamaxis] [Bad Ass]

    GP Approved 2 / 2 [Ray Jay] [Calm Pokemaster]

    -----------------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>The first thing that sticks out when one looks at Bisharp is his odd typing. Dark / Steel gives him two key resistances to Dragon- and Ghost-type attacks, but at the same time opens him up to super effective Ground- and Fighting-type moves, both of which are common in the metagame. Fortunately, Bisharp makes up for his weak defensive typing with his excellent base 125 Attack, which allows him to leave a large dent in many of his opponents. Bisharp does have a decidedly middle-of-the-road base Speed of 70, meaning he gets outsped and sometimes KOed by two-thirds of the metagame. At least, he would. Luckily he has access to the powerful Sucker Punch through breeding, nullifying his Speed issues and 2HKOing, or sometimes even OHKOing, most opponents that don't resist the move. Outside of this, Bisharp's movepool does give him a slight amount of maneuverability, allowing him to avoid being completely predictable.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Swords Dance
    Move 1: Swords Dance
    Move 2: Substitute
    Move 2: Sucker Punch
    Move 4: Brick Break / Iron Head
    Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    Ability: Defiant
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is essentially the best set Bisharp can run. After a Swords Dance, Bisharp's Attack jumps to a massive 766, enough to OHKO just about anything in the metagame, bar Lucario or Conkledurr, with STAB Sucker Punch. Alternatively, you could run Night Slash, which saves face against the newly viable SubDisable Gengar set, but it's not quite as powerful and doesn't have priority, so it's not recommended. Substitute helps Bisharp set up on an opponent's switch to Conkledurr or Ferrothorn, then KO with Iron Head or Brick Break, respectively. The item choice is according to preference: in the end, it's a question of the power of Life Orb versus the survivability of Leftovers. Life Orb is recommended, but either one works.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The set deals nicely with common threats like Reuniclus and Salamence, OHKOing both with Sucker Punch. If you find the recoil damage from Life Orb to be somewhat off-putting, Leftovers can be held to make life slightly easier after Substituting, but beware that Bisharp's moves will lose a great deal of power. The choice between Iron Head and Brick Break is purely subjective, as it all depends on who you want to hit. Iron Head can be used against bulky Pokemon resistant to Fighting-type attacks, such as Dragonite or Cosmic Power Sigilyph, while Brick Break allows for perfect type coverage to fill the hole left by Sucker Punch (which is ineffective against Dark-, Fighting-, and Steel-types, two of which Brick Break hits super effectively). Conkledurr and Excadrill have little to no trouble weathering a resisted Sucker Punch and OHKOing with Drain Punch and Earthquake, respectively. This can be rectified by using Gengar to absorb the incoming attack and responding with the appropriate move (Shadow Ball in Conkledurr's case, or Focus Blast for Excadrill).</p>

    <p>Max EVs in Attack allow for the aforementioned jump to 766 after Swords Dance; the HP EVs are mainly for sponging hits, but these can be shifted into defenses if you prefer. Inner Focus should only be used in place of Defiant if you plan on switching Bisharp to the front in the Team Preview, in case you run into the now-relatively rare Fake Out lead; this, however, is obviously not practical, and you're better off using Defiant since you get a free Attack boost on top of your (hopefully) already accumulated Swords Dance boosts when Intimidate users such as Gyarados try to switch in.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Thunder Wave
    Move 1: Thunder Wave
    Move 2: Pursuit
    Move 3: Sucker Punch
    Move 4: Brick Break / Iron Head
    Item: Life Orb / Balloon
    Ability: Defiant
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 132 HP / 172 Atk / 204 Sp. Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Bisharp can also play the part of a bulky status inducer. Thunder Wave is vital to this set, as is greatly slows down faster set-up sweepers that would otherwise kill Bisharp off the bat and proceed to sweep. Sucker Punch, again, provides strong STABed priority, and is Bisharp's attack of choice. Pursuit is the second key element of the set, since it can take statused opponents who try to switch out by surprise. Once again, the last slot is up to preference: Iron Head for secondary STAB, or Brick Break to achieve perfect type coverage alongside Sucker Punch.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As with the Swords Dance set, Fighting-types, especially Conkledurr, are the bane of Bisharp's existence. In these instances, Bisharp's best hope is to try and use Thunder Wave and switch out the next turn. Life Orb, as usual, buffs Bisharp's Attack greatly at the cost of survivability; if you have trouble against Excadrill, try using Balloon to at least buy a turn to dent it with Brick Break. Better yet, you could run a Water-type such as Gyarados to counter Excadrill by switching in on an Earthquake and countering with Waterfall. Toxic can replace Thunder Wave, but it only really makes a difference against Ground-types (although Excadrill is immune to both anyway). As for the EVs, even with only 172 EVs in Attack, Bisharp reaches a not-too-shabby 330, while the Special Defense EVs defend against common special moves it can switch into, like Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor. As an alternative, you can max out HP to help sponge some hits, or the HP EVs listed can be spent on Defense to help Bisharp survive more physical hits. Again, running Inner Focus on this set is not a good idea; in fact, it's actually a worse idea here, as Bisharp has no way to increase his Attack bar Defiant boosts.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As stated previously, Bisharp's movepool depth is slightly above average, giving a fair few options outside of those listed. Low Sweep deals about the same damage as Brick Break, plus lowers the opponent's Speed, which is always welcome. Bisharp also has access to Stealth Rock, which can be used to great effect alongside Taunt and Thunder Wave on a makeshift lead set; it should be noted, however, that Stealth Rock is illegal with Sucker Punch. Rock Polish can replace Swords Dance on the first set to fix Bisharp's low Speed, but its use is redundant with Sucker Punch, and the set greatly misses the power boost afforded by Swords Dance.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Conkledurr tends to have a field day with Bisharp, switching in on a failed Sucker Punch and 2HKOing or sometimes OHKOing with Mach Punch. Excadrill resists all of Bisharp's common moves bar Brick Break, and easily kill variants not holding Balloon. In fact, anything with a strong Fighting-, Fire-, or Ground-type move (assuming Bisharp doesn't have a Balloon) can kill Bisharp, as long as it resists, or at least takes neutral damage from, Sucker Punch, and has over base 70 Speed. Even non-Choice Scarf Heatran can outspeed Bisharp and kill him with Fire Blast.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Bisharp gets the ability Pressure in the Dream World. In practice, this ability is fairly worthless; if you run a lead set, it might be worth consideration there, but everywhere else, it forfeits a great Attack boost from Defiant when Intimidate users switch in.</p>
  2. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    Bumping to say that you are welcome to post now. Any help is appreciated.
  3. Omicron

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    For the SD set, list SubDisable Gengar as a check as it can Sub on your sucker punch, disable your Stone Edge/Iron Head, and proceed to set up another Sub and then Kill you with Focus Blast while you cannot do anything to it bar break its subs with sucker punch. Mention this as a reason for using Night Slash over Sucker Punch.
  4. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    Never realized those exist, lol. Added.
  5. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Gliscor is a huge counter so you have to mention it.

    Poor poke will have a hard time in OU (like Golurk)
  6. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    Added note about Gliscor, as well as Flygon and Garchomp (assuming the latter remains OU this generation, which seems unlikely).
  7. Omicron

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    Lol i just realized almost any ground type will have a field day with this poor thing... well except dugtrio
  8. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Heatran deserves mention as a possible revenger, outspeeding it even without wielding a Scarf and being resistant to Sucker Punch.

    The horse trio should be mentioned for the same reason, as they actually gain an attack boost from Sucker Punch (while resisting it) and can strike back with STAB Close Combat or Sacred Sword.
  9. DangerMouse

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    not sure if i missed it but rock polish might be worth a mention in AC
  10. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    For Heatran, I see your point. Added.

    As far as the horses go...Terakion is going to Ubers iirc, Virizion can be dealt with using Iron Head, and Cobalon can be Brick Breaked (? Sorry about that...) from here to the Spear Pillar. And Keldeo...eh, never mind. Keldeo owns it.
  11. Omicron

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    I think Competitive Spirit should be listed as a slash on the SD set for Abilities since it essentially gets a +1 boost to attack when intimidators like Gyarados and Salamence come in... Inner Focus isn't doing much for it anyways unless its the lead set.
  12. Galladiator

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    But Intimidators aren't as common this Gen, as Gyarados users will likely use Overconfidence once it is released, and Salamence may be Uber again anyway. And there's no way Bisharp makes it to Ubers. Even for other stat-droppers like Crunch lowering Defense, you're basically depending on hax to kick in, which is never a good place to be in competitive battling.
  13. Omicron

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    But you can at least mention it in the OC...
  14. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

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    mentioning subdisable gengar is kinda strange dont ya think lol

    Life Orb can be replaced with Expert Belt if recoil is off-putting, but Kirikizan's attacks lose power in some cases

    you mean, in all cases ever??

    "or Toxic for Grounds"
    toxic does so much more than hit ground types. so much more that that statement is rather irrelevant.

    "then take it out with Psycho Shock"
    being a dark type it's immune to psychic attacks soooo it probably wont be taken out by it very easily..

    the lead set seems really really poor to me. most common leads will outspeed and get rocks up anyway. also it's pretty dead weight midgame and cant do a whole lot to your opponent other than maybe taunt something slower.

    Really, anything with a strong Fighting-type move can kill Bisharp if it resists/takes neutral damage from Sucker Punch

    the only two fighters that are neutral to sucker punch are gallade and medicham. both take at least 90 something from +0 252 adamant life orb sucker punch so probably shouldnt even mention them and just say "resists sucker punch." flygon also takes about 72%-85% from +0 life orb sucker punch so you should probably just remove that as a counter because you're usually going to have to take a sucker punch when you're attacking kirikizan.

    inner focus and competitive spirit both have equally situational uses. in the entire analysis you didnt mention it once and it definitely should be known that a normal -1 will turn into +1. psycho cut should also get a mention on swords dance so that roobushin and all other fighters arent free to switch in and set up. IMO he should run SD, sucker punch, brick break, psycho cut. at the very least mention competitive spirit and psycho cut SOMEWHERE.
  15. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    Oh my, what a post. Let's see:

    While I concede that there is a power drop between LO and Expert Belt, it's only a drop of 10% my statement was in the fact that the boost only comes into effect on "super effective" moves, whereas Life Orb increases all damage.

    I realize this; however, the main move of this set is Thunder Wave (which is ineffective against Ground-types), because is slows down the opponent so that Kirikizan can get at least one more move off before dying. My reasoning for slashing Toxic is that poisoning is better than no status at all, although two types are immune to poisoning.

    This was an error on my part; by "it" I was referring to Conkledurr. (Although it should have been a giveaway that 1.) Bisharp is immune to Psychic, and 2.) the statement was made in the "Team Options" section.

    Which, again, is why Thunder Wave is on the set; it won't necessarily keep the opponent from getting up rocks, but it can at least paralyze and get up rocks of its own before dying.

    I wasn't talking just about Fighters. I forgot to mention Fire-type moves in that statement, anyway. Flygon was a counter because it's faster and has access to STAB Earthquake, so it can KO Bisharp even if rocks are up.

    The obvious problem with that set is that, unfortunately, Psycho Cut is illegal with Sucker Punch, and I'd rather have the base power 80 STAB priority move with no immunities over the base power 70 non-STAB move with an immunity, even if the latter has a greater chance to crit. As for Competitive Spirit...see above.
  16. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

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    even on super effective hits, life orb makes for more damage output than an expert belt. in any and all cases. the point of using an expert belt is if your confident in your SE coverage than you can use it for slightly less damage output but no recoil.

    seeing as how flygon users should always plan on their flygon taking a sucker punch, i dont think it should be listed as a counter. taking about three quarters of its health from kirikizans main move while unboosted merits that it's not a solid counter. at best it can revenge but loses if kirikizan gets a SD up. hippowdon should be listed because it can roar and avoid the sucker punch or hit with eq.

    you can't just say intimidators are less common this gen. salamence and gyarados? they will always be top tier threats and if you're not preparing for them while making your teams it's likely they can sweep you. other things like staraptor which has close combat gets it. qwilfish on rain teams. although uncommon hitmontop who is a pretty solid counter. you really just can't not mention it even once i barely even see how that's possible lol.
  17. Iconic

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    There is no such thing as a 'lead' in BW OU. I think you should scrap the Lead set and just mention in Optional Changes that Bisharp gets access to Stealth Rock, and can make a good user of the move if you give it Taunt and Thunder Wave. For the analysis you should probably just stick to Bisharp's strengths which is primarily using Swords Dance and killing stuff with Sucker Punch.

    Other than that it looks good.

    QC Approved 1/2
  18. Galladiator

    Galladiator

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    Made the changes. Thank you very much!
  19. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

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    so you're implying that fake out/serene grace is more common than intimidate? don't assume things that might happen maybe, since the odds of your "hunch" being right are low. restalk gyarados has no use for overconfidence (and dd gyara is terrible this gen anyway), and salamence hasn't even been mentioned for suspect so far as far as i know. competitive spirit deserves a slash.
  20. Galladiator

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    I guess I'll split the difference then, but there's always a chance...

    Also, bump.
  21. Galladiator

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    Sigh...bump again.
  22. Paradox

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    I would highly recommend slashing Competitive Spirit over Inner Focus. Gyarados and Salamence aren't nearly as uncommon as you suggest, and are running defensive sets more than ever. Both serve to wall Kirikizan pretty well without Competitive Spirit, and the extra boost provided if they do switch in can be game-ending. Also, I can't really see Inner Focus doing much. Fake Out's going to do a pittance anyways, as will Iron Head, Dark Pulse, Rock Slide, etc., and Jirachi will usually have something a lot more dangerous to hit you with. Not to mention that you'll be hitting most Pokemon first with Sucker Punch anyways.

    You might want to move the 4 EVs in Defense to SpD. Really it doesn't make a significant difference either way, but I find Kirikizan makes a decent Lati switch in so SpD comes in handy. You won't really notice the difference, but it can help.

    You should lose the Expert Belt slash. Kirikizan has very mediocre super-effective coverage, it just has solid neutral coverage, you won't often get or need the boost. I would slash Balloon and Chople Berry, or at least give them mention in options. Both will make setting up much easier, and Kirikizan can use Iron Head alongside Chople to survive Mach Punch and KO Roobushin with some previous damage (+2 does 76.4% - 90%) as well as survive some other fighting attacks.

    And have you tried the Rock Polish set? I haven't and it may not be worth the analysis, but should definitely get a mention in OC.

    Also your counter's list is pretty ridiculous. Remove any mention of Alakazam, and Gengar, since it can at best be a sketchy check with Substitute. Flygon and Garchomp are also OHKOd by +2 LO Sucker Punch iirc, and a full-health Gliscor will be beating you regardless of whether you're carrying a Balloon.

    In short: Definitely make Competitive Spirit the primary slash and remove Expert Belt, maybe move the 4 Def EVs, and try out Balloon/Chople and Rock Polish.
  23. A Man In Black

    A Man In Black

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    That first set is not in any sense a sweeper set without Sucker Punch; I'd kick Night Slash to AC/OC if it's only there for Subdisable Gengar. Without Night Slash or Stone Edge, though, you lose to bulky Roar Gyarados (who you'd normally beat handily; +1 Stone Edge OHKOs).

    OHKOing Reuniclus after Bisharp sets up is meaningless trivia. Nobody's going to switch Reuniclus into Bisharp, and if Bisharp ever switches into Reuniclus or otherwise finds itself unboosted and faced with Reuniclus, it's going to be on the wrong end of a Focus Blast.

    If someone needs a gimmick Reuniclus counter, though, CB Bisharp's Sucker Punch OHKOs any Reuniclus with defensive investment less than 252HP/252Def/Bold (and even then max damage OHKOs).

    Nobody uses Flygon, you can remove it from counters.

    Why would Mienshao ever use Fake Out on Bisharp when Hi-Jump Kick tidily OHKOs?
  24. LeviLamprey

    LeviLamprey

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    You need to put Moxie in!
    EDIT: Keep Flygon in, just in case someone DOES use it. If a counter exists hypothetically, mention it, because somebody, somewhere will probably have a FLygon in their team!
  25. Paradox

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    I've seen Night Slash over Stone Edge, not Sucker Punch, since Dark/Fighting coverage is already great, and it provides reliable STAB.

    It doesn't get Moxie... and Flygon isn't a counter anyways, so it really shouldn't be mentioned.

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