Pokémon Bisharp

[tcr]

Quite honestly i would prefer substitute over swords dance. In a metagame where some of the best spinblockers are everywhere, offensive defog is quite honestly better than rapid spin. So having something that can lure in defoggers is really beneficial. Just figured i'd point that out. Its relatively easy to get a +2 or even +1 boost (intimidte users) so running swords dance is really overkill and a waste of a slot. There isnt much scarier than a +2 bisharp behind a sub. Combine that with the fact most defoggers are destroyed by bisharp (latias, mandibuzz, crobat, latios, scizor) and you have anti metagame screaming.

 

[Dilasc]

I'd use sub if it doesn't prevent further defiant boosts. Does it?

If it did, wouldn't it be counter-intuitive?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Free sword dances behind a STAB sucker punch is absolutely terrifying, but what does it do against priority users that outspeed it? Also, common defoggers carry super effective moves like HP fire (latias) and earthquake (flygon) and can make Bisharp really suck it if they predict the switch. Here's some calcs:

0 SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 126-150 (46.4 - 55.3%) -- 68% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 218-258 (80.4 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mandibuzz Whirlwind vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- guaranteed forced switch
0 Atk Crobat superfang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 135-135 (49.8%)
0 SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 142-168 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I didn't bother with EV's, but it shows that if the opponent knows about the defiant strategy, they can predict and cause a lot of free damage while shutting down any strategy for free boosts. I think its one of those things that goes great against bad players, but its easy to see coming and check, so I doubt defog will get Bisharp an OU spot

 

[Shroomisaur]

Bisharp @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute / Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head

I've tested this Bisharp set in Pokebank, and to say it's a monster is an understatement. Not only does it sport STAB Sucker Punch, which allows it to function as a reliable revenge killer for weakened sweepers, but it also has Knock Off, which can ruin teams all by itself. It's generally not too difficult to set up, but the best targets are slower Ghost-types, as long as he doesn't switch into Will-O-Wisp. The only thing Bisharp truly despises is is Mega Luke, who can use it as set-up fodder. Thus, it's important to have something on your team that can reliably switch into and proceed to threaten him.

Sub vs. Swords Dance is preference, but I like Sub to screw Ghosts out of Will-O-Wisp if they dare to stay in. I guess you could attempt fit both on the same set, but that would be rather daunting, as Knock Off, Sucker Punch and Iron Head are all immensely useful.

Speed EVs are for slow Rotom-W.

That's just my standard Bisharp with a point of Speed Creep (132 beats defensive Rotom) and Sub slashed with SD, which I don't think is a good idea. Bisharp needs that SD boost to reliable kill neutral targets with his STABs. Why bother blocking WoWs from Ghost-types when you can just outright KO them? As you said, he can't switch in directly for fear of WoW but if he gets in, it's the end of the line anyway:

252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Trevenant: 396-468 (105.8 - 125.1%)

I don't know why anyone would leave something like that in on Bisharp. Just go straight for the Knock Off.

Quite honestly i would prefer substitute over swords dance. In a metagame where some of the best spinblockers are everywhere, offensive defog is quite honestly better than rapid spin. So having something that can lure in defoggers is really beneficial. Just figured i'd point that out. Its relatively easy to get a +2 or even +1 boost (intimidte users) so running swords dance is really overkill and a waste of a slot. There isnt much scarier than a +2 bisharp behind a sub. Combine that with the fact most defoggers are destroyed by bisharp (latias, mandibuzz, crobat, latios, scizor) and you have anti metagame screaming.

If both are healthy, 252/208+ Mandibuzz only has a 26.6% chance to be 2HKO'd by Bisharp's+2 Iron Head, while its Foul Play is a guaranteed 2HKO. Certainly not a good matchup for Bisharp, especially considering it's a speed tie (lol I wrote both previews to beat defensive Rotom). One bonus point Mandi has in the Pokebank Defog competition!

However, all the others are great matchups for Bisharp. Pursuit traps Latias/Latios guaranteed, as they are KO'd even if they stay in on +2 Bisharp. The only chance they have is if they're packing HP Fire and predict the switch.

 

[tcr]

Latias rarely runs hidden power let alone HP Fire (most sets are surf/psyshock/draco meteor-pulse)

Flygon isnt common at all
Mandibuzz will eat the +2 iron head before it whirlwids out which does a good chink of damage. If it whirlwinds the switch just switch back into bisharp

Super fang calcs lol. Super fang does fixed damage (half of pokemons hp) and brave bird doesnt do a lot

Empoleon prefers scald anyway, and bisharp cant break through it anyway, no point in switching in in the first place

EDIT: mandi also takes rock damage(why else is it trying to defog?) running 84+ Spe outspeeds mandibuzz and most run more speed anyway, i fail to see the speed tie. Theres no reason to run speed on mandibuzz, base 80 is good for a defogger. So yes, itll eat the iron head

 

[Super Mario Bro]

That's just my standard Bisharp with a point of Speed Creep (132 beats defensive Rotom) and Sub slashed with SD, which I don't think is a good idea. Bisharp needs that SD boost to reliable kill neutral targets with his STABs. Why bother blocking WoWs from Ghost-types when you can just outright KO them? As you said, he can't switch in directly for fear of WoW but if he gets in, it's the end of the line anyway:

Well, I wasn't exactly trying to be innovative with that set; just wanted to list something that was working for me. :P Sub is useful because it eliminates the need for prediction in that scenario and quite a few others. Swords Dance is great because it allows Bisharp to break through physical walls with recovery, like Skarmory, but I find that Bisharp usually prefers attacking things right off the bat.

Also, outpacing things that invest in 4 Speed EVs is always a good rule of thumb, I find.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Latias rarely runs hidden power let alone HP Fire (most sets are surf/psyshock/draco meteor-pulse)

Flygon isnt common at all
Mandibuzz will eat the +2 iron head before it whirlwids out which does a good chink of damage. If it whirlwinds the switch just switch back into bisharp

Super fang calcs lol. Super fang does fixed damage (half of pokemons hp) and brave bird doesnt do a lot

Empoleon prefers scald anyway, and bisharp cant break through it anyway, no point in switching in in the first place

EDIT: mandi also takes rock damage(why else is it trying to defog?) running 84+ Spe outspeeds mandibuzz and most run more speed anyway, i fail to see the speed tie. Theres no reason to run speed on mandibuzz, base 80 is good for a defogger. So yes, itll eat the iron head

The calcs weren't meant to be totally realistic (superfang, lol indeed), they were meant to show that when the surprise factor of Defiant wears off, Bisharp will become almost a liability. Sticky web isn't looking like it'll "stick" as a popular hazard like SR did, and if you try to counter defog, you could end up regretting it. There's still intimidate, but predicting an intimidate switch is difficult and nobody smart will send out an intimidate poke against a defiant one. All these considered, Defiant is a potentially amazing ability, but will usually not do anything. In the end, I think Bisharp will stay pretty similar to last gen, a usable powerhouse, but a very particular one that will be tiered UU because of its hit or miss nature

 

[tcr]

The calcs weren't meant to be totally realistic (superfang, lol indeed), they were meant to show that when the surprise factor of Defiant wears off, Bisharp will become almost a liability. Sticky web isn't looking like it'll "stick" as a popular hazard like SR did, and if you try to counter defog, you could end up regretting it. There's still intimidate, but predicting an intimidate switch is difficult and nobody smart will send out an intimidate poke against a defiant one. All these considered, Defiant is a potentially amazing ability, but will usually not do anything. In the end, I think Bisharp will stay pretty similar to last gen, a usable powerhouse, but a very particular one that will be tiered UU because of its hit or miss nature

Other than the fact that, dark/steel is amazing coverage this generation, fighting type nerf, sucker punch being arguably the best priority, an excellent aegislash check, an excellent defog switch in, etc. its not that hard to set up when defog is so common. It doesnt even need stealth rock to ko most pokemon, it simply needs sr to bait in the defog user.

From experience most defog users slapped on teams are there because they absolutely need sr off the field. So it can be good as offensive pressure as well

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Other than the fact that, dark/steel is amazing coverage this generation, fighting type nerf, sucker punch being arguably the best priority, an excellent aegislash check, an excellent defog switch in, etc. its not that hard to set up when defog is so common. It doesnt even need stealth rock to ko most pokemon, it simply needs sr to bait in the defog user.

From experience most defog users slapped on teams are there because they absolutely need sr off the field. So it can be good as offensive pressure as well

I'm saying that the defog switch in thing isn't worth it. As soon as they see Bisharp in team preview they'll be on their guard. When pokebank comes out, tons of defoggers will laugh at SRIt is a great Aegislash check, but there are still sets that carry sacred sword, so its definitely not a sure thing either. Dark/Steel is definitely great, but even though fighting moves are less popular, fire moves are more popular and EQ is probably the most popular move there is. Bisharp is easily viable, but its not the answer to defog and it still isn't the easiest pokemon to use. Leaving it in UU with OU and even some uber (if that doesn't show I believe its good, what will?) usage.

 

[FlyThai]

I'm saying that the defog switch in thing isn't worth it. As soon as they see Bisharp in team preview they'll be on their guard. When pokebank comes out, tons of defoggers will laugh at SRIt is a great Aegislash check, but there are still sets that carry sacred sword, so its definitely not a sure thing either. Dark/Steel is definitely great, but even though fighting moves are less popular, fire moves are more popular and EQ is probably the most popular move there is. Bisharp is easily viable, but its not the answer to defog and it still isn't the easiest pokemon to use. Leaving it in UU with OU and even some uber (if that doesn't show I believe its good, what will?) usage.

great post.

but you will be surprised how many people i caught off guard who had no idea of the sweeping ability of Bisharp. I dont know if it will be UU or OU (i think its OU material), but either way my OU team has been saved many times by his defiant and sucker punching shenanigans

 

[Halcyon.]

This post will serve as a list of all my work

Gen VI:
Current Onsite Analyses:

XY Pre-Bank Previews:

Gen V
Gen V: Current Onsite Analyses:

Threads

Counter That Pokemon!

OU Mini Tours

Co-Leader of the OU Tip of the Day

 

[Shroomisaur]

I guess I'm just saying that I love Bisharp right now.

Glad to see I'm not the only one!

Bisharp was a solid choice pre-bank, but post-bank, it's on a whole new level. You touched on Lando-T, which is everywhere at the moment and gives Bisharp a free +1, but Mega Manectric also fears switching into Bisharp. Bisharp's mere presence on your team will make your opponent hesitant to use Lando-T, Lati@s, and others. STAB Sucker Punch is amazing, and Knock Off is pretty much the most risk-free, spammable attack in the game. It hurts coming from Bisharp. Bisharp can even carry Pursuit to trap your opponent's Defog user and guarantee your hazards for the rest of the match!

Bisharp really loathes Lucario though, so I wanted to give a shout-out to Moltres as a surprisingly good teammate. It's the best answer to Mega Luke, and is immune to Ground, absorbs Will-O-Wisps, and resists Fire and Fighting, covering all of Bisharp's weaknesses.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

+1 love for Bisharp. It's not always the biggest threat on a team but whenever it gets in it accomplishes something. And hits damn hard.

I've won so many matches I had no business winning simply because STAB Sucker Punch hits so goddamn hard.

 

[Mjolnir128]

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Perhaps repost, but oh, it's too good. The speed investment puts him at 232, outspeeding Jolly Azumarill. Bottom line, nothing wants to take a Knock Off from this guy except Mega's, and only the ones that resist it want to take a Knock Off at 2x. If you get a 2x, Aegislash shield is OHKO by Sucker Punch, and it's not hard to get a 2x when you can scare out fairies so easily.

 

[LoDart210]

Quite honestly i would prefer substitute over swords dance. In a metagame where some of the best spinblockers are everywhere, offensive defog is quite honestly better than rapid spin. So having something that can lure in defoggers is really beneficial. Just figured i'd point that out. Its relatively easy to get a +2 or even +1 boost (intimidte users) so running swords dance is really overkill and a waste of a slot. There isnt much scarier than a +2 bisharp behind a sub. Combine that with the fact most defoggers are destroyed by bisharp (latias, mandibuzz, crobat, latios, scizor) and you have anti metagame screaming.

Relying on sticky web and defog is kind of risky, and I don't think Bisharp appreciates that kind of risk. I have to admit, your idea sounds enticing only because I'm missing out of knock off right now the way I play my bisharp which is Sub/SD/Sucker Punch/Iron Head

I still think swords dance is a safer and overall more rewarding option over trusting your opponent will lay sticky web, or go for the defog. That kind of stuff is situational, to be taken advantage of, not something to build your strategy around.

 

[Pipotchi]

I've been using this Pokemon today a lot and I'm seriously impressed. Every time he switches in, he's made a big difference to the game.
I've been using this set:

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

While it has obvious longevity issues, its killing potential with some prior damage on the enemy team is highly reliable and surprises me every time. The combo of sucker punch and substitute is obvious- either they attack you and get smacked first with the hardest hitting priority STAB life orb boosted (and possibly +1 or +2 boosted) attack in the game, or they cast a non-attacking move/ switch out, and risk you putting up a sub. To break the sub and kill you afterwards, they then have to hit you twice, which means a definite two sucker punches in the face beforehand. So I would argue that whilst you are putting your life on a timer with this set, you become so much trickier to take down without the opponent losing a huge chunk of their team and are trading off several of Bisharp's shortcomings, which include his low defenses, low speed when using Iron Head, and fear of not being able to ohko an opponent, as well as issues with status moves.
Sucker Punch has a lot of its problems solved by Substitute, so its the only dark type move on the set. Iron Head is the obligatory secondary STAB and obviously hits fairies that resist dark type moves hard.

Bisharp forces so many switches that sub seems perfect for him. Even though it blocks status drops, no-one will be intentionally using their defog on a Bisharp anyway, and defiant still helps you on that first turn you switch in. I think more people need to try it out, I don't see any Bisharps using sub even though its so effective on him- I'm pretty sure sub was common on him last gen too so I don't really know what happened.

 

[FlyThai]

I've been using this Pokemon today a lot and I'm seriously impressed. Every time he switches in, he's made a big difference to the game.
I've been using this set:

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

While it has obvious longevity issues, its killing potential with some prior damage on the enemy team is highly reliable and surprises me every time. The combo of sucker punch and substitute is obvious- either they attack you and get smacked first with the hardest hitting priority STAB life orb boosted (and possibly +1 or +2 boosted) attack in the game, or they cast a non-attacking move/ switch out, and risk you putting up a sub. To break the sub and kill you afterwards, they then have to hit you twice, which means a definite two sucker punches in the face beforehand. So I would argue that whilst you are putting your life on a timer with this set, you become so much trickier to take down without the opponent losing a huge chunk of their team and are trading off several of Bisharp's shortcomings, which include his low defenses, low speed when using Iron Head, and fear of not being able to ohko an opponent, as well as issues with status moves.
Sucker Punch has a lot of its problems solved by Substitute, so its the only dark type move on the set. Iron Head is the obligatory secondary STAB and obviously hits fairies that resist dark type moves hard.

Bisharp forces so many switches that sub seems perfect for him. Even though it blocks status drops, no-one will be intentionally using their defog on a Bisharp anyway, and defiant still helps you on that first turn you switch in. I think more people need to try it out, I don't see any Bisharps using sub even though its so effective on him- I'm pretty sure sub was common on him last gen too so I don't really know what happened.

This is actually the set i run on him as well. I alternate between this one and knock off. Knock Off Bisharp is soooo good.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I don't see any Bisharps using sub even though its so effective on him- I'm pretty sure sub was common on him last gen too so I don't really know what happened.

There's no doubt that your set is effective, and when I wrote the preview for Bisharp that was my favorite set as well! Unfortunately what happened was Knock Off. It's such a great move on Bisharp, dealing loads of damage and having very few "safe" switch-ins due to the item removal. A Sub-SD set can still be effective but it's hard to give up on powerful, spammable, and reliable Dark STAB.

 

[Fresher Than You]

Love this SOB. Aegi may fall at my feet. Too lazy to post anything majorly relervant, wait 'til tomorrow for that :P, But I would like to say that Assault Vest with some decent Bulk investment makes it survive considerably longer, which helps the Power Up punch set, though it might not be worth getting rid of SD, and the damage drop it more than noticeable. You're far less likely to OHKo Aegi now. Mind that on the switch it can do very little anyway for fear of sucker punch afterward.

 

[Fynmorph]

I use Bisharp as an lead and Sub sweepr. He can kill and weaken a lot this way.

Thriller (Bisharp) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Knock Off
- Iron Head

The 136 allows him to outspeed 0 EVs Spe Rotom-W (the most common one) and everything slower like Mandibuzz, 0 speed heatran, adamant azu. The rest is put in HP allowing him to take some hits while still be able to sub (sub + lefties is inevitable imo) making him pretty bulky (well for a bisharp lol). There is clearly less longevity issues.

Running Sub is much more worthwhile imo, it protects Bisharp from Will O Wisp (first move that Rotom lead will use) Leech Seeds and such and allow him to take a hit (if you can OHKO it with a +2, you can probably 2OHKO it behind a sub). And obviously if you can activate Defiant +2 with a Sub he is literally impossible to beat.

While behind a Sub, Sucker Punch becomes much more reliable as the enemy can't burn/paralyze/spore/whatever Bisharp. But it's mainly for (revenge)killing fast pokes while Bisharp is unprotected or forcing the switch.

As the main threat still is Knock Off, if the enemy is slower there isnt much reason to risk using Sucker Punch.
blah blah knock off is broken this gen 92.5 BS and remove an item whats up with that

Iron Head has the STAB, a non negligeable 30% flinch, and give a better coverage than with Brick Break as Bisharp can now hit Steels (hello Heatran) with dark. Otherwise he's tanked by Fairies.

The main aim is to set a sub and knock off behind it, effectivly weakening the opponent's team early in the game.

 

[VanGru]

Running knock off and suckerpunch is viable. Most people really naively think that you only run one or the other and end up getting punched in the face.

 

[Ogami]

I love pursuit on this guy. No one expects triple dark coverage and each move (knock off, pursuit, and sucker punch) maintain high levels of usefulness despite the redundancy. I play with an assault vest build, so this may mean nothing to SD guys but I think it's a good enough move to consider, even with the killing power with Swords dance available. Trapping latias/latios while the best they accomplish is a defog can be brutal for the right team. Pursuit also helps against Aegislash who will often run away, if you manage to catch it in blade form with some damage. It's definitely a bit niche, but the number of latii my bisharp has trapped makes me quite happy, and its added bulk makes it a nice midgame pokemon.

Here's the spread I use:

Bisharp@Assault Vest
Ability:Defiant
EVs:168 Hp / 252 Att / 88 Spe Adamant
-Iron Head
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off
-Pursuit

The speed Ev's are to outspeed min 80's (pretty much togekiss) and heatran which are pokemon I hate to lose momentum too. I've been thinking about altering the spread to 76 Hp / 252 Att / 180 Spe Adamant to outspeed 44 speed Rotom-W, which is becoming a very common build. In the past Rotom-W hasn't been a problem because I've paired it with AV Conkeldurr, but now that I'm not doing that the speed seems a bit more important. I never like relying on outspeeding min Lando-T since it's speed investment ranges quite a bit, but there is that too. Not sure if I like the sounds of the bulk loss but I'm going to test it out

 

[PrincessDerpy]

The problem with Pursuit in a dancing set is you either give up his "can't revenge kill me unless you can soak this" or Knock Off. Triple dark with no steel to offset means he gets walled by fairies for days instead of being able to hit them really hard while being neutral to them due to his typing.

 

[Ogami]

That's why I run pursuit on an Assault Vest set. I mentioned pursuit probably wouldn't mean much for any SD user, so my intention was to draw attention to a different Bisharp build, not an alternative move for SD builds. I think adding different builds to a pokemon's repetoir is quite important and makes a more dangerous when it has more potential sets/play styles. I sacrifice power for bulk, allowing Bisharp the ability to survive more switch ins. While the LO SD bisharp sets are far more immediately threatening, I've had success with AV Bisharp on teams that are more balanced and like a guaranteed dead latii. I don't use Bisharp as a sweeper but as a hole puncher, with stab knock off and pursuit being great assets to that role.

 

[raiderrocker18]

That's why I run pursuit on an Assault Vest set. I mentioned pursuit probably wouldn't mean much for any SD user, so my intention was to draw attention to a different Bisharp build, not an alternative move for SD builds. I think adding different builds to a pokemon's repetoir is quite important and makes a more dangerous when it has more potential sets/play styles. I sacrifice power for bulk, allowing Bisharp the ability to survive more switch ins. While the LO SD bisharp sets are far more immediately threatening, I've had success with AV Bisharp on teams that are more balanced and like a guaranteed dead latii. I don't use Bisharp as a sweeper but as a hole puncher, with stab knock off and pursuit being great assets to that role.

I've been running bisharp for all of gen6 with great success. I even made an rmt about I team I made specifically around him (which I've had good ladder success with). That said I'm intrigued by AV bisharp. I've been running 252+ Atk and 252 HP with lefties (knock off/sucker punch/iron head/substitute). I don't really have complaints about the set. But what sort of special attacks does AV really help with? Bisharp usually dies from physical fighting or ground attacks, or from physical fire like talon.

I'm just curios as to what instances Av shines in