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OU Bisharp

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Shroomisaur, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    [​IMG]
    Everyone's favorite power ranger.
    My preview

    QC: Fuzznip, PK, SMB
    GP: blitzlefan (Jukain), Legitimate Username

    Overview
    ########
    Although it was firmly planted in UU last generation, Bisharp benefited from many of the changes that XY brought and is now a prominent threat. Bisharp possesses incredibly powerful priority in Sucker Punch as well as both power and utility in Knock Off. The new Fairy-type, which resists Bisharp's signature Dark-type moves, is crushed by its Steel-type STAB attacks. Bisharp's ability, Defiant, allows it to laugh at stat-lowering moves and abilities such as Defog, Sticky Web, King's Shield, and Intimidate. Unfortunately, Bisharp still suffers offensively from its low base Speed. Its reliance on Sucker Punch can also backfire on occasion, making it easy to exploit sometimes. Defensively, its poor Special Defense and nasty weaknesses to several common attacks prevent it from making the most of its unique Dark / Steel typing. However, Bisharp's ability to threaten Defog users and apply huge offensive pressure gives it a new niche in OU.

    Defiant Attacker
    ########
    name: Defiant Attacker
    move 1: Knock Off
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Iron Head
    move 4: Pursuit / Swords Dance
    ability: Defiant
    item: Black Glasses / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    Bisharp's primary move is the newly buffed Knock Off, a powerful and reliable STAB move that weakens nearly any target through both damage and item removal. Sucker Punch is a staple on Bisharp and one of the most powerful priority moves in the tier. After a boost, Bisharp can use Sucker Punch to eliminate many faster threats and nearly anything without a resistance to Dark-type moves. Iron Head is a reliable Steel-type STAB move that deals with targets that resist Dark-type attacks, most notably Fairy-types. Bisharp can make use Pursuit in the last slot to trap many popular threats, most notably Aegislash, as Defiant negates the Attack drop from King's Shield. Pursuit can also eliminate Defog users such as Latias or Latios, ensuring that your hazards will be safe for the rest of the match. Swords Dance allows Bisharp to boost its solid base 125 Attack even higher and attempt a sweep. A +2 Bisharp is extremely threatening to most offensive teams. Substitute is also a good choice on Bisharp, especially for teams that already have plenty of boosting sweepers. Substitute eases prediction with Sucker Punch, and can and block status moves aimed at Bisharp.

    Set Details
    ========
    An Adamant nature and 252 Attack EVs maximizes Bisharp's Attack, while maximum Speed is used to outrun as many threats as possible, including defensive Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Mega Venusaur. Bisharp greatly appreciates an item that boosts its damage output, and Black Glasses can be used to avoid recoil while still boosting Bisharp's more commonly used Dark-type moves. However, Life Orb provides a boost in power to all of Bisharp's moves. For example, Life Orb guarantees the 2HKO on Azumarill with Iron Head. Low Kick can be used to OHKO Tyranitar, Heatran, and opposing Bisharp, and is also the best option against Mega Aggron. An Assault Vest with an EV spread of 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 SpD is an interesting option for Bisharp that allows it to survive powerful special attacks and reliably trap Defog Latios by using Pursuit.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Bisharp is best used to apply heavy offensive pressure to your opponent. Switch in using Bisharp's resistances or a predicted switch, and use Knock Off to weaken any switch-in early in the match. Defiant forces your opponent to play carefully with Intimidate Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Defog users such as Latias, because Bisharp can gain a free boost with clever switching. Later in the match, when Bisharp's counters have been removed, use Swords Dance against something Bisharp can force out in order to sweep. Once it gains a boost, Bisharp is incredibly difficult to stop. However, Sucker Punch must be used carefully, as it is predictable and very easy to exploit.

    Team Options
    ========
    Great offensive teammates for Bisharp include Pokemon that can defeat bulky physical walls. Water-types such as Starmie and Rotom-W pair well with Bisharp and can defeat Hippowdon and Gliscor. Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y can defeat bulky Steel-types such as Skarmory and Mega Aggron. Defensively, Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Slowbro, Gyarados, Trevenant, and Gourgeist cover Bisharp's Fighting-type weakness very well. Hazard setters, most notably Deoxys-D, are also great teammates, as they can support Bisharp with hazards and bait a Defog for Bisharp to switch in on. In return, Bisharp's offensive presence discourages the opponent from using Defog to remove your hazards.


    Other Options
    ########
    Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock are excellent support moves, but Bisharp is generally best for applying offensive pressure. Power-Up Punch can be used to OHKO opposing Bisharp and gain a +1 boost in the process, but is quite gimmicky because Low Kick can KO many additional threats. There are a few other items that Bisharp can utilize as well. If Bisharp is carrying Swords Dance, a Lum Berry can protect Bisharp from status and allow it to continue its onslaught. If it is carrying Substitute, Leftovers can offset the residual damage and offers Bisharp better survivability. However, in both cases, Bisharp will greatly miss the boost in power granted by an offensive item.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Physical Walls**: Bisharp can't break through extremely bulky physical walls. Ground-types such as Hippowdon, Gliscor, Donphan, and Unaware Quagsire are especially good counters, as they can hit Bisharp hard with STAB Earthquake. Mega Aggron can easily take boosted hits, doesn't fear Knock Off, and can strike back with Earthquake or phaze Bisharp out. Physically defensive Mega Venusaur can do the same, although it takes hefty damage from Iron Head. Skarmory can take a boosted hit and phaze Bisharp, but can't threaten it directly.

    **Fighting-types**: Fighting-types resist Bisharp's Sucker Punch and can exploit Bisharp's crippling 4x weakness to their STAB moves. Infernape, Keldeo, and Lucario are great choices as they resist both of Bisharp's STABs. Terrakion and Heracross work well if they can avoid switching into Iron Head. Mach Punch users such as Breloom and Conkeldurr can also dispose of Bisharp.

    **Fast Substitute, Will-O-Wisp, and Encore Users**: Faster Substitute and Will-O-Wisp users can take advantage of Bisharp's reliance on Sucker Punch to set up a Substitute or cripple Bisharp. Encore users can force Bisharp to switch out if it uses Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, or Substitute.

    **Dark-type Resistant Attackers**: Sweepers that resist Dark-type moves, such as Mega Gyarados and Hydreigon, can take a +2 Sucker Punch and KO in return with their powerful attacks.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2014
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  2. Tesung

    Tesung
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    I would say that life orb is the best option on bisharp. 2 much power to pass up.
  3. Alter

    Alter lab report
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    I agree with Tesung in that Life Orb can be a fantastic item for SD Bisharp. The extra power is well worth the Life Orb recoil, in my opinion. It may also be worth mentioning Taunt in AC as it allows Bisharp to stop any phazing attempts from two of its greatest checks: Skarmory and Aggron. Mega Aggron is also notable in that Knock Off does nothing to it due to mega stone mechanics.
  4. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    I certainly agree with you both, I'll add LO to the set. I'll also give Mega Aggron a bit more of a shout-out when it comes time to write this up!
  5. Subject 18

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    I would slash Substitute with Swords Dance. SD isn't as needed when you can bait Defog and get a free +2 due to Defiant. Being behind a Sub, I've found is just as beneficial Swords Dance. I agree with the sentiment of adding LO as an item making it Life Orb then Dread Plate.

    For usage tips I would mention Deoxys-D + Bisharp as a core. Deoxys-D can set up hazards and attract Defog where Bisharp can switch in and punish being getting the +2 boosts from the Evasion drop.
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  6. Tesung

    Tesung
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    Also, it should be mentioned that it is an amazing aegislash check, and that is almost mandatory on hyper offense because of defiant (deosharp is the new deogar). Otherwise good job
  7. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Thank you for the suggestions!

    Personally I don't see how Sub is very useful, since Bisharp can't be guaranteed a Defiant boost, and it really needs a boost to sweep. Sub+LO will wear Bisharp down incredibly quickly too. I went ahead and slashed Sub with SD anyway, though I'm curious to hear a few more opinions. Because of this change, I also reorganized the move order and changed the set name, since Defiant is really Bisharp's claim to fame. I also moved Lum Berry to OO because Bisharp really needs an item boost.
  8. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    I don't see why the set should be called Defiant Attacker, since it really only gets the boost if your opponent misplays by switching in a Poke with Intimidate. The ability is useful in the sense that it reduces the number of Pokemon that are able to check Bisharp, but it's not central to the way the set is played.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  9. Namso

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    You can say that Bisharp is the only Steel-type that resists both Ghost and Dark, rather than just Ghost.

    I'd mention somewhere that Bisharp's typing is seriously good offensively in gen 6 and that Fairies, who resist Dark, are maimed by Iron Head. I would break up point 3 on the overview to convey this. What you can do is have a point talking about Bisharp's great offensive typing like I said, and then add on to point 5 that it's the only Steel-type to resist both Ghost and Dark. That should work I think.

    I'm assuming those Speed EVs let it outpace defensive Rotom-W, not the regular Rotom. Make this clear.

    When mentioning in the usage tips to boost with Swords Dance, make sure you mention that Bisharp should only be doing this if A) its checks/counters are gone, B) it's against something that cannot significantly hurt it (if you're running Life Orb, you want to take the least damage possible), and C) if it's forcing a switch.

    Move the hazard setters in the team options, probably.

    Not sure about that Moltres mention there. It's not really relevant at the moment. I would probably suggest something else, maybe Gliscor since Mega Lucario doesn't really run Ice Punch. Gliscor also handles Terrakion, who will gladly try to check you with its Dark resistance and Justified. If you got a better idea, by all means. I mean, you can probably just neglect mentioning this and stick with mentioning Landorus-T, since it checks the two Pokemon as well. You also already mentioned Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y before to absorb Will-O-Wisp too, making the Moltres mention more or less moot.

    I would probably mention Dragon Dance/Swords Dance Pokemon too maybe to lure in Intimidates from the likes of Gyarados and Landorus-T. Your call, though.

    You can mention Encore in the C&C section too, since half of Bisharp's moveset can be exploited with it.

    QC 1/3
  10. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Thanks for the QC Fuzznip! My comments are in bold - all of these things will be fleshed out once I do the actual write-up, just need 1 more QC.

    What I would most like to know, again, is whether Sub deserves that slash with SD. I've heard from both sides on this multiple times. In my opinion Bisharp should never give up SD, because if Bisharp could get a free Sub it should probably just Attack or SD. Defiant isn't by any means guaranteed after all, and LO+Sub is not a good combo. I'm still looking for more QC opinions on this.
  11. Namso

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    You kind of misunderstood my comments.

    1) I meant that Bisharp is the only Steel that resists both Ghost and Dark, but it's fine if you want to keep it to just mentioning Ghost.

    2) Sorry I didn't see a mention of Bisharp's typing being good offensively, but if you got that down for the writeup than all's well.

    3) Great. :)

    4) You have some of it covered, just add that you want to Swords Dance against something unthreatening or on a forced switch. I don't see that anywhere if I'm not just being dumb. Right now you just have it as "boost with SD afters counters are gone and sweep," but that doesn't help the user know how to or when to boost with SD.

    5) Yes, I'd consider it to be more OO material, as it's not really a usage tip, but a team option if you think about it. That's my opinion, anyway.

    6) Perhaps Moltres fares well from a type synergy standpoint and beating Mega Lucario (it doesn't get 2HKOed by Close Combat with SR?), but I'm still iffy on the mention of it. You already suggested Volcarona and Charizard, I don't want you to compound it with the uncommon Moltres when other Pokemon can fulfill Moltres's role to decent effect. Mentioning just Gliscor, Trevenant, and Landorus-T as defensive partners is good enough for me. All of them fare well against the stuff Bisharp is afraid of. Trevenant can take Will-O-Wisp too, as well as Volcarona and Charizard as you've already suggested earlier.

    7) Coolcool.

    Regarding Substitute, keep it there. It works nicely with Dread Plate and Leftovers, so you can mention those items when you talk about Substitute, since Life Orb + Sub is pretty overkill. Also, sometimes Bisharp doesn't need to use Swords Dance due to its ability, and Substitute immensely eases prediction. If you want, mention in the comments that Sub + SD can be used with Iron Head and Sucker Punch as coverage.

    edit:

    252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Moltres: 110-130 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

    +2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Moltres: 219-258 (57 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Yeah it's basically 2HKOed by Close Combat with Stealth Rock, and that's max/max Moltres. I get that Moltres is going to be paired with a spinner/defogger, but it's still unreliable.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  12. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Ok, I've made all the changes! If you also like Sub, then I will keep it slashed with SD as well. If you look at my preview you'll see that SD/Sub/Sucker/Iron Head was actually the main set option, but Knock Off is just too useful to give up now.

    Regarding Moltres, fair enough, I'll remove it. ...you might have to argue with alexwolf about that one though, lol.

    EDIT: added Leftovers in OO.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
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  13. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  14. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Thank you PK!

    This is now written up and ready for the 3rd QC check.
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Mega Aggron can straight up threaten it Earthquake.
    Is Mega Houndoom really worth mentioning? Mega Gyarados is probably the only relevant Dark-type resist that falls under this section.
  16. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    I gave Mega Aggron a bigger mention in C&C to emphasize that it can threaten with EQ as well as phaze (in addition to not fearing Knock Off thanks to 65 BP). Also changed the Mega Doom reference to Hydreigon.
  17. Colonel M

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    With Mega Lucario having a lot of spotlight and being able to switch into Bisharp's dual STABs, I think Low Kick deserves to be slashed into the set to bypass the situation. Also helps dent Mega Aggron at the least. Just slash it with Swords Dance and Substitute.
  18. Namso

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    That's too many slashes, just mention Low Kick in the set details since it's pretty much specific to two Pokemon.
  19. Colonel M

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    Works for me. Do what Fuzznip said.
  20. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Sure, I already had it in OO for that reason so I'll just bump it up to set details.
  21. Colonel M

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    By the way, mention that switching into Mandibuzz's Defog does yields mixed results.

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 253-298 (59.6 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    +2 4 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 165-195 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    There's also the possibility that Mandibuzz doesn't even have Defog (it's rare but still it can happen), and Foul Play does kind of sting.
  22. Doughboy

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    You should also note that Bisharp is the only Pursuit user that can trap Aegislash effectively, since King's Shield does not cause it to lose -2 attack.
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  23. steviestar

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    Defensive Rotom-W is listed as running 44 speed now to avoid being outsped by Jolly Azumarill, so if Bisharp wants to continue to outrun him by the spread should be updated to 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe.
  24. Knight of Cydonia

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    That is just speed creep since there is nothing to then stop the rotom w analysis running a bit more speed to outrun bisharp etc etc. Spread should be adamant max speed, the extra speed is also useful for min speed base 100s and slower. Rotom-w can then decide if it wants to sacrifice that much bulk to outspeed it which is unlikely since it is supposed to be defending against mega pinsir and talonflame.
  25. GatoDelFuego

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    Bumping this so it gets back on the front page; it's practically ready!

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