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BL Tier

Discussion in 'Pokémon Policy' started by Phuquoph, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Phuquoph

    Phuquoph
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    BL Tier

    Abomasnow
    Alakazam
    Ambipom
    Arcanine
    Articuno
    Blaziken
    Charizard
    Claydol
    Cloyster
    Drapion
    Dugtrio
    Empoleon
    Entei
    Espeon
    Exeggutor
    Floatzel
    Flygon
    Forretress
    Gardevoir
    Hariyama
    Honchkrow
    Jynx
    Kingdra
    Leafeon
    Lickilicky
    Ludicolo
    Machamp
    Magmortar
    Marowak
    Medicham
    Mesprit
    Milotic
    Miltank
    Mismagius
    Moltres
    Ninjask
    Porygon2
    Ramparados
    Regice
    Regigigas
    Regirock
    Registeel
    Roserade
    Sceptile
    Scizor
    Scyther
    Slaking
    Shaymin
    Shedinja
    Smeargle
    Snorlax
    Spiritomb
    Staraptor
    Steelix
    Suicune
    Tauros
    Torterra
    Umbreon
    Uxie
    Venusaur
    Yanmega
    Zangoose
    Zapdos

    Discuss any additions or edits.
  2. Misty

    Misty oh
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    That is a really, really, really large BL tier.
  3. Kumar

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    Rhyperior?! -_-;;
    This thing atleast deserves OU
  4. alex

    alex the best stuff on earth
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    it's not a matter of what it "deserves"

    it's not used a lot. it's not overused. it's too powerful for UU. it's BL.
  5. Surgo

    Surgo goes to eleven
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    Rhyperior is already -in- OU on the tier posted in Stark, and I have seen nothing to change that.

    Also that is...rather large. What's wrong with Scyther and Shedinja in UU? Or Kingdra or Abominsow? None of these seem particularly overpowering, maybe Kingdra with stupid broken Draco Meteor is but bleh, the UU bar is being raised.

    edit: The following are OU (and correctly imo) in the Stark tier list but BL here:
    Aerodactyl
    Porygon-Z

    Yanmega should be moved up to OU at this point I feel.


    Also, Exeggutor should be fine for UU this gen I think.
  6. evan

    evan I did my best -- I have no regrets
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    If Yanmega gets moved up to OU then so should Ninjask. I've seen far more Ninjask than Yanmega though Yanmega probably should be used more.
  7. alex

    alex the best stuff on earth
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    Rhyperior is not used. Like, ever. It was probably when the thread was posted but I think the majority of us agree that it's not anymore.

    Kingdra is definitely too powerful for UU; Shedinja, Scyther, Abomasnow and Exeggutor could be debated but the point of this is a preliminary outline of the BL tier.

    Aerodactyl is never used and definitely not to the point of OU; Porygon-Z is used some but I wouldn't put it in OU. Yanmega I see on occasion and I guess it could be debated OU but it's not really an important distinction.
  8. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    so ursaring is uu now?
  9. Steelicks

    Steelicks Come here and Battle me!
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    tiers should be based on how useful the pokemon are, as opposed to how often they are used
  10. chaos

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    steelicks it works on a combination of both lol
  11. Steelicks

    Steelicks Come here and Battle me!
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    well then in that case rhyperior should definitely be OU... it is too powerful to be BL, and it is used a lot more than most of those on the list
  12. chaos

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    no, thats the thing. if its not used as much as the OUs but still too powerful for UU it goes in BL. BL and OU are considered the same strength (too good for UU) but OUs are used more.
  13. Steelicks

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    ah right, ok, no worries then =)
  14. Phuquoph

    Phuquoph
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    Aerodactyl, PorygonZ and Rhyperior have been removed.
  15. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    This thing about things being used more ending up in OU and other, equally-powerful, Pokemon used less ending up in BL has always irked me, and I've decided to go vocal about it.

    Surely you don't mean that you can see all the games that are done during a month and can assess what Pokemon were used and which weren't?

    What is used and what's not will always be a subjective thing. Always. I can encounter 10 Dragonite in 15 battles, and you might encounter only 2. Does that make Dragonite OU for me and BL for you?

    There exist also timezones, guys. Maybe in the timezone I'm in, Ninjask is in 60% of teams, while in your timezone it's only in 10% of teams. So Ninjask is OU between 3am and 3pm and BL between 3pm and 3am?
  16. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    i just go to see what is used a lot via what i see most on those rmts =[
  17. Misty

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    OU exists to say "these Pokemon are very common in standard matches - if your team can't counter all of these, it is a waste of time".

    BL exists to say "these Pokemon are rare or never seen in standard matches, but they are too powerful for UU play".

    BL really only exists to promote the balance of the UU metagame - it has very little to do with OU, even if they might be "equally powerful" (which is meaningless, btw).

    EDIT - btw, a good number of UU analyses have assumed Abomasnow to be UU :/
  18. Kumar

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    My only concern is people play 'UUBL' or 'BL Only' or some shit like that and shouldn't end up having Rhyperior on their teams.
  19. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    typhlosion isn't anything powerful or ou, but it's not bl means it's in uu...typhy in uu?
  20. Aeolus

    Aeolus Bag
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    Cloyster - UU. I'm a huge Cloyster fan, but really, this thing has no business being in a BL tier. It has gotten significantly worse since advance while everything else got better. This thing defines what UU play should be about.

    Mesprit - I see more Mesprit than Azelf and Uxie combined on Shoddy, dunno about this.

    Ninjask - OU. Based off of its potential for usefulness and the higher usage it is enjoying on Shoddy Battle...

    Zapdos - OU. Zapdos is just as good as it was in advance (if not a bit better thanks to Roost), and though its usage is down... it has not fallen to the level of the rest of the pokemon in this tier.

    I'm fine with the rest of the list though.
  21. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    We could really put a lot of this to rest (I, too, have wondered about time zone differences) if Competitor has some sort of Pokemon tracking mechanism.
  22. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    This post sums up exactly what I said.

    Aeolus is claiming that Mesprit is more common than Azelf and Uxie combined. See what happens? He saw more Mesprit, while other people, presumably, didn't. So, which is right: "hey Mesprit is BL because I saw only a handful of Mesprit?" or "Mesprit is OU because I saw more Mesprit than Azelf (which is OU)?"

    According to their definition of OU, Zapdos might be the most powerful Pokemon in the game, however, since it is not used (again, with all the subjectivity surrounding the word 'used'), it is BL.

    My point is that nobody can claim to know what is common and what is not, Misty. There will always be people who will say "hey, this week I saw 15 Mesprit in 20 games. How is Mesprit not OU?" or "I have barely seen Aerodactyl ever, why is it OU?"
  23. Sonuis

    Sonuis Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated!
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    This is going to be based off the current list. Bold = Change

    Abomasnow - I feel Abomasnow should go down to the UU list. Snow Warning might be overpowering for the UU environment, but I see Weather Teams being used more often in UU. It has one of the worst 4x weaknesses to hit this generation, which is Fire. As we've seen, Fire-type usage has risen ten fold. Its normal defense isn't exactly as high as I would like for it to live through a Flare Blitz, Blaze Kick, Fire Punch. Even with its exceptional HP (Maxing to 384). We can't forget its weaknesses to Fighting, Steel, Bug, or Poison either. It does have sizable ATK & Spc. ATK., but I'd go out on a limb and mention Arcanine, whose BP Average is much higher in both categories.
    Alakazam
    Ambipom
    Arcanine (Earthquake would so make Arcanine OU)
    Articuno
    Blaziken
    Charizard
    Claydol
    Cloyster - I think Cloyster is basically a Forretress with higher defense, but lower everything else. Not to mention it being a different type. It's something I wouldn't find in a BL or OU environment. So, I'm going to say that Cloyster belongs in the UU tier.
    Drapion
    Dugtrio
    Empoleon
    Entei
    Espeon
    Exeggutor
    Floatzel
    Flygon
    Forretress - Forretress is still common, I see it all the time. It's job is still to support, which it does quite well. Not mention that it stalls, but holds the deadly Fire weakness now. Not only can it learn both Spikes and Rapid Spin, but it can now support Stealth Rock via TM. Plus, it has Explosion on the side that we all know and love. I recommend moving Forretress to OU.
    Gardevoir
    Hariyama
    Honchkrow
    Jynx
    Kingdra - I'm a bit mixed with Kingdra, but I'm a little slanted to say that Kingdra should go to OU. I do see it (ignore self) on Shoddy, and it has good overall stats. Not to mention that it's only weak to Dragon (Though Dragon's a much more common move type) so it has steady support on its own. It now has physical support with Waterfall to actually make it a viable Dragon Dancer. Add the godly Sniper and Scope Lens to it, and fuck. Need I say more? Oh, of course, we can't forget its super special attacks in the fray.
    Leafeon - I love its other stats a lot, but it's just not versatile enough for OU or BL. If its move set was more broad, then I could see a lot more going for it. However, it's just not worth it. UU for Leafeon.
    Lickilicky
    Ludicolo
    Machamp
    Magmortar
    Marowak
    Medicham
    Mesprit
    Milotic - Milotic is still here and there. It's still the annoying tank as it ever was, and it has a better chance to put something to sleep. OU.
    Miltank
    Mismagius
    Moltres
    Ninjask
    Porygon2
    Ramparados
    Regice
    Regigigas
    Regirock
    Registeel
    Roserade - Honestly, I've only seen this thing one time, and that was with Space. It doesn't do much at all as far as I can tell. Roserade should be sent to UU.
    Sceptile
    Scizor
    Scyther
    Slaking
    Shaymin - It may have a crappy moveset, but that doesn't allow it to enter the BL with Mew-type stats. Set it in OU, and it'll avoid some controversy.
    Shedinja - All Shedinja got was a Focus Sash, and that was it. Not much changed with it. Unless it can be used as a better Baton Passer, then I'm going to say that it should live with the UU folk.
    Smeargle - OU. Smeargle is the most broken Baton Pass user ever, even if it's not on a Baton Pass-Based team. I've actually seen Smeargle on unfocused BP Teams.
    Snorlax
    Spiritomb
    Staraptor
    Steelix
    Suicune
    Tauros
    Torterra
    Umbreon
    Uxie
    Venusaur
    Yanmega
    Zangoose - I've never seen Zangoose as much of a threat in ADV, and I don't see it as much of a threat now. It does have super attack and speed, but it can't last. It's more of a revenge Pokémon than anything else. I recommend it be pushed down into the UU tier.
    Zapdos
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Certain Baton Passers should consider being put into the OU bracket alongside Smeargle. I can't decide on which ones however.
  24. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    OK, I'm going to post another explanation on how the tiers work as of now (unless this changed, and, to my knowledge, it hasn't).

    First we have all the Pokemon. We find Pokemon that create imbalance. These are banned (sent to the uber tier). How often Pokemon are used is irrelevant in this step.

    Then, from what we have left, we decide that some level of usage is enough to warrant OU vs. UU. Pokemon that don't get as much use are sent to UU, everything else is OU. Power is irrelevant in this step.

    Then we look at the UU tier. We find Pokemon that create imbalance. These are banned (sent to the BL tier). How often these Pokemon are used is irrelevant in this step.

    I'm really not sure how we do UU-->NU.

    Now, what this means is that a Pokemon's power has no bearing on whether it's OU vs. BL. OU and BL Pokemon are not necessarily different in power. If, for whatever reason, Salamence suddenly stopped being used, it would be BL. This is not a statement of Salamence's power, but rather, of how often it's used. OU=BL in terms of power, BL=UU in terms of usage. Therefore, a Pokemon cannot "deserve" to be OU instead of BL, unless you're saying "It's used enough to be OU".
  25. alex

    alex the best stuff on earth
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