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Black Firsts UU Style

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Meaty Man, May 4, 2013.

  1. Meaty Man

    Meaty Man

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    66
    It's a replica of my Black in-game team (hence the lower-tier items, also I don't like Choice items) but hear me out first. This team surprised in OU, delivering a much larger-than-expected success rate, particularly on the part of the team vice-captain Volcarona. However, it had to do too much itself, and would eventually be overrun by Terrakion and similar threats, leaving the rest of the team to do something only it could do. Down here in UU, however, it's different, and the team is thriving in a nearly Outrage-free environment. So here we go:

    [pimg]528[/pimg] Piggy (captain) @ Flame Plate with Blaze

    252 Atk/252 HP/4 Spe (Adamant)

    Heat Crash, Wild Charge, Flame Charge, Superpower

    The team captain is a real force once Flame Charge solidifies a Speed advantage. Wild Charge is great on weakness coverage, but makes me wish I had a Reckless variant. Superpower is the hugely damaging Fighting STAB, but Heat Crash needs to be replaced.

    [pimg]619[/pimg] @ Leftovers with Swarm

    252 Atk/252 HP/4 SpD (Brave)

    Megahorn, Iron Head, Return, Counter

    The only team member with no nickname, Escavalier's poor offensive movepool means this won't differ much from a typical set. Best simply to bring it out early, as it doesn't seem to hold its own too much in late-game. Until X & Y hopefully give this sorely lacking movepool a boost, this is about as good as it gets.

    [pimg]214[/pimg] @ SilverPowder with Swarm

    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD (Adamant)

    Megahorn, Brick Break, Stone Edge, Earthquake

    Shikoyita is one incredibly powerful SilverPowder user, especially coupled with Swarm. A STAB Swarm Megahorn will easily dispose of Umbreon, and while Brick Break won't do much to Xatu, it does destroy the screens most Xatu are known to carry. Earthquake provides a way out of situations with Chandelure, while Stone Edge is the killer of choice for annoying Flying-types who plague the team.

    [pimg]650[/pimg] @ Expert Belt with Regenerator

    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD (Adamant)

    Hi Jump Kick, Drain Punch, Rock Slide, U-turn

    Arguably the best attacker in the team (which really says something since 23 out of the 24 moves in the team are attacks), Mientatsu takes out an awful lot with this set. The only thing holding it back from being OU itself is its own frailty, the way I see it. HJK recoil can be taken away either from a switch-out or staying in and landing a STAB Drain Punch, or even hitting a bit of damage and THEN switching out via U-turn. Rock Slide is the Flying- and Bug-type coverage of choice, which is also useful in doubles.

    [pimg]567[/pimg] @ Black Belt with Inner Focus (yes, it's Sturdy-free)

    252 Atk/252 HP/4 SpD (Adamant)

    Close Combat, Low Sweep, Payback, Rock Slide

    It may seem contradictory to keep Low Sweep and Payback on the same team, but they are for different situations. With no Speed EVs, it won't outspeed often, so Payback will be effective a lot of the time. Low Sweep is not only a non-stat-reducing STAB move, but is also used to lower the Speed of, and seemingly cripple, faster threats such as Victini, who is then disposed of with Rock Slide.

    [pimg]655[/pimg] @ Razor Claw with Inner Focus

    100 HP/252 Atk/156 Spe (Adamant)

    Iron Head, Aerial Ace, Night Slash, Swagger

    Buc Nasty is, despite its less-than-fortunate STAB advantages, a capable check to several prominent threats to the rest of the team. Night Slash is the only move in the team capable of hitting Ghosts for SE damage, as well as giving a hefty deal of damage to Reuniclus coupled with its double-increased chance of critical hits with Razor Claw, while its 2 immunities make it a good check for Toxicroak outside of rain. Iron Head is used as a secondary STAB for its high flinch chance, while Aerial Ace, while no super-move, takes a hefty chunk out of Toxicroak and Volcarona.

    So there you have it. I appreciate team feedback and also recommend you give the team a trial yourselves before rating. As a Fighting-heavy team, Flying and Psychic moves are quite painful, but Buc Nasty resists and is immune to them, respectively. In addition, Escavalier resists Psychic and retaliates with the best Megahorn in the world! What's the verdict?
  2. Garchomp for president

    Garchomp for president

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    185
    Welcome to smogon, you need at least 3 lines of data saying why this pokemon is used or a mod could lock this RMT. Also could you put the name@item under the sprite as it look better

    Now, for the actual rate. Emboar is far outclassed by Victini as Vic learn more powerful move the the pig. Try a physical banded set like this one even though I know you hate choice items. Don't worry I did too.

    [​IMG]
    Victini@Choice Band
    Victory Star
    Adamant
    252 HP/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
    V-Create
    Bolt Strike
    U-Turn
    Zen Headbutt

    This is my favorite set for Vic because its amazingly powerful. This does about 65-80% to gligar from the top of my head which is huge since gligars are a common threat that toxic stall and set up rocks. Lets make this clear, this is an eviolite gligar taking over 60% from a Vic. Increadible. Vic doesn't sweep against scarfers like emboar might but Vic is a sure dead wall breaker. Another plus to Vic is it takes care of not only your fighting weakness which is the most deadly weakness you can have but also your flying weakness with bolt strike.

    Another thing that bothers me is your Escavilar, it give no help to you team and its very inefficient. Instead of bold do Adamant with 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def ev's. Use Swords dance over return and superpower over counter. Make it your defensive pivot ( A "Mon" that can switch in on many things and either stall or threaten them out) and use it in an offensive role.

    Herracross is the 3rd physical attacker I have counted but I see 3 more. I'll keep hereafter because it functions well as a scarfer. Use moxie over swarm because here's gets rewarded for his kills. Your moves are fine but depending on your threats (which I weighed in) Close Combat is better because it 2 shots snorlax after SR.

    On miensho however life orb coupled with regenerator is a smarted harder-hitting choice. Also instead of drain punch, use Ice punch as gligar can't totally wall you and 2 shoting it.

    Now sadly Sawk needs to be switched for a special attacker or gligar and slowbro wall your team to pieces. Use Yanmega as its SpA is through the roof.
    [​IMG]
    Yanmega@Choice Specs
    Tinted Lens
    Modest
    252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
    Bug Buzz
    HP Rock
    U-Turn
    Air Slash

    Combined with specs@tinted lens yanmega might hit things that resist it even harder than things that are neutral to it. Bug buzz and air slash get almost perfect coverage, U-Turn privies momentum and it take advantage of yanmega's natural speed, and HP rock make good coverage

    On Bisharp, well scratch that. There's NOTHING on bisharp as, frankly its bad. Razor Fang does nothing if theres already a flinch chance so for closing your team lets go with one of the first Pokemon you can ever get in the Pokemon universe...
    [​IMG]
    Blastoise@Leftovers
    Torrent
    Calm (+SpD, -Atk I think?)
    252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SpD
    Scald
    Rapid Spin
    Toxic
    Stealth Rocks

    Finnaly, a hazard setter. Provides rapid spin support for yanmega, and Partners nicely with escaviler as it resists fire and is Specialty Defensive while Escaviler is physically.
  3. MewTheDestroyer

    MewTheDestroyer

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Blastoise doesn't get Stealth Rocks... .-.

    Anyways, meh team. Use Band Victini over Emboar, as Emboar is complete and utter trash. Use Choice Scarf over Silver Powder on Heracross, and use Close Combat over Brick Break. Busy, so I'll do a full rate later. :]
  4. CactusCacti

    CactusCacti

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    208
    This team would need a lot of work if you were to tweak for a more serious term of battling.
    Chomp above had pretty good suggestions up there, however I'm gona disagree with the Bisharp judgement as it is a good mon when you get it to work properly.

    If you were to change Emboar to Victini, you can have good synergy with bisharp and victini having a nice resistance to each others weaknesses.

    Here's a tweaking I'd do for your bisharp:

    [​IMG]
    Bisharp @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Defiant
    252hp, 252 atk, 4spdef. Adamant
    Substitute
    Sucker Punch/Nightslash
    Iron Head/Brick Break
    Swords Dance/Stealth Rock/Brick break

    Inner Focus is useless on Bisharp as it is. Bisharp already resists fake out and the rare togekiss can just aurasphere or fireblast him out.
    Defiant can turn the tide of the battle if a random stat drop happens as a +2 atk is very welcome.
    I'd suggest investing full out on bulk due of bisharp being naturally rather medicore in speed to begin with.

    The moves were to be set up in a way to figure what you'll need for your team, however I highly recommend keeping substitute and sucker punch in. But if you feel bit unsure on using sucker punch, nightslash is alright aswell. SR is a common choice and is a nice support option if you can't stick it for any other member. Brick break makes an almost non resistable combo coverage with a dark type move, iron head is a good stab move. Swords dance if you're feeling all out offensive.
  5. Meaty Man

    Meaty Man

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    66
    Believe me, if Escavalier could learn Superpower, it would be there without question. I am thinking of replacing it with my [pimg]357[/pimg] or [pimg]538[/pimg] as they are both capable of fulfilling that role with Substitute. Suggestions?
  6. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk pink hair don't care
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Sawk and Escavalier are entirely outclassed and redundant by things on your own team (Mienshao and Hera respectively). Drop them and replace with special attackers. I support Yanmega, as suggested above, to replace Sawk, but I'd rather see a LO varient than Specs Tinted Lens because you don't want your whole team to be choiced. For replacing Escavalier I'd suggest Zapdos. I'd run the LO offensive set.

    Zapdos @ LO - Modest/Timid - 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
    Pressure
    - T-bolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - HP Grass (Over HP Ice because Pert and Perior are a bitch to this team)

    SubCM Raikou or Offensive LO Raikou are also options

    Finally, I'd scrap the Bisharp and replace it with Substitute Sharpedo. Given that you already have three strong physical attackers/pivots, you should really focus on having a late-game sweeper, and I think Sharpedo outclasses Bisharp in that extent. Also maintains surprise factor while actually being viable.

    Sharpedo @ Liechi Berry - 252+ Att/252 Spe/4 SpD - Adamant Nature
    Speed Boost
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - EQ
    - Sub


    Other than that, originality is good, but when an item/move is severely outclassed, you really just have to accept that. To summarize the minor changes,

    Heracross
    SilverPowder --> Choice Scarf
    Brick Break --> Close Combat
    Swarm --> Moxie/Guts (personal preference, but your team doesn't really appreciate burns overall so Guts may be a nice surprise factor)
    EQ --> Sleep Talk (This applies more if you choose guts, but EQ and Stone Edge are mostly redundant and Guts Sleep Talk Scarf Hera is a monster

    Mienshao
    Expert Belt --> Choice Scarf/Life Orb (You can either build the team around dual fighting scarves, or just keep Mienshao as a strong physical attacker/pivot. Either way, EBelt is awful)
    Drain Punch --> HP Ice (Helps you deal with Gligar)
    Adamant --> Naughty (To maintain full power of HP Ice)
    Rock Slide --> Stone Edge

    Just to recap once more, your team should now look like this. The color coding is to show which moves go with which sets.

    [pimg]522[/pimg] @ Choice Band
    Adamant
    Victory Star
    252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe (Not 252 HP over Atk as suggested above)
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - U-turn
    - Zen Headbutt

    [pimg]474[/pimg] @ Life Orb
    Speed Boost
    Modest
    252 Spe/4 HP/252 SpA
    - Bug Buzz
    - Protect
    - Air Slash
    - HP Ground/HP Rock/Giga Drain

    [pimg]650[/pimg] @ LO/Scarf
    Jolly/Adamant
    Regenerator/Reckless
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
    - HJK
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - HP Ice/Aerial Ace (Scarf HP Ice could work, but it's not amazing)

    [pimg]214[/pimg] @ Choice Scarf
    Adamant/Jolly
    Guts/Moxie
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Sleep Talk

    [pimg]145[/pimg] @ Life Orb
    Modest/Timid
    Pressure
    252 SpA/4 HP/252 Spe
    - Thunderbolt
    - HP Grass
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost

    OR

    [pimg]243[/pimg] @ Leftovers/Life Orb
    Modest/Timid
    Pressure
    252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
    - Substitute/Volt Switch
    - Calm Mind/Aura Sphere
    - Thunderbolt
    - HP Grass

    [pimg]319[/pimg] @ Liechi Berry
    Adamant
    Speed Boost
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
    - Waterfall
    - EQ
    - Crunch
    - Substitute


    [pimg]522[/pimg] [pimg]474[/pimg] [pimg]650[/pimg] [pimg]214[/pimg] [pimg]145[/pimg] [pimg]243[/pimg] [pimg]319[/pimg] Best of luck with the team :)



    ~ Kitten Milk/Pleasure Kitten ~
  7. Garchomp for president

    Garchomp for president

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    Realy guys that was just off the top of my head so Meh.

    Uh kitten this is a RMT not a build a team. I know I do that sometimes and I've learned the most amount of pokes you should change is 3 but normally I change only 2 as you changed 4. Try making previous sets more efficient rather than changing pokes
  8. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk pink hair don't care
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Yanmega and Victini were changes made by other people, one of them being you, so I only changed 2 Pokes. I'm just trying to recap all of the sensible changes made so far and present them to him in a compact manner c:
  9. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

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    Welcome to UU! I find this tier great to worth with, and I'm glad you're giving it a shot.
    This was a refreshing team to look at, I like some of the approaches that you were going for with Escavalier and Emboar. However, most of the Pokemon that you picked are unfortunately outclassed, which is why you're getting so flooded with requests to switch out your Pokemon. I mostly support them, but since I don't want to just show up here and tell you which Pokemon to use, I'll help you with what you have.

    My first suggestion would be to Fit Emboar with a choice item with the set Flare Blitz, SuperPower, Wild Charge, and Sleep Talk. If you're running Band, invest EV's in HP. If you're running Scarf, invest EVs in Speed.

    You almost never want to have 2 Pokemon of similar typing on a team, and having both Heracross and Escavalier on there seems pretty worrying. I would have to recommend Replacing one of them. This is also a problem with Sawk, Mienshao, and Emboar.

    There's not a lot of ways to make this team work... It's just not suited for the UU environment. I don't usually wanna do this, but I suggest that you Transform this team into an RU team. This means that Heracross, Mienshao, and Bisharp can't compete, but 2/3 of those Pokemon are Pokemon that already have their types on the team. Find some good replacements that reside in the RU tier and you'll be able to use a majority of the Pokemon here much more successfully.


    Edit: I thought I'd add more.

    I like your approach with Sawk, but the problem with the set that's on it is that you're relying on Sawk taking a lot of hits, something that it's definitely designed to do. The main sets for Sawk rely on the Choice Items, and if you wanna run Emboar you're going to pretty much take Sawk out, especially since Emboar is already fighting.

    I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news here but I'm just trying to help.
    You can find a list of RU Pokemon here.
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/ru

    Once you think you have a good RU team revolving around Emboar, I'd be happy to take a look for you, or you can post another thread in the RU sub-category.

    But if you're cool with what other people are suggesting, then welcome to UU!
  10. Meaty Man

    Meaty Man

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    Going down to RU, then. Since I use these Pokemon because they are the cream of my in-game crop, Blastoise and Zapdos aren't options for me. So I guess [pimg]538[/pimg] and [pimg]357[/pimg] will come in from the Reserves, eh? Oh, and possibly [pimg]653[/pimg] for the last spot as well.
  11. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk pink hair don't care
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Gliscor is OU o_O'
  12. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

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    Dec 21, 2012
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    680
    It seems that you are new to Smogon. Gliscor is Firmly OU, but Gligar could work. It sets up the stealth rocks that your team likes, and 3 fighting types is way to much for any tier. Use Gligar in Sawks Spot.
    Next you need a Special attacker, so the previous suggestions of Zapdos or Raikou work well. I prefer Raikou, and would use the Sub/CM set.
    As for Victini, I would give it a mixed WallBreaker set with V-Create, Bolt Strike, Hidden Power Ice, and Blue Flare or Psychic. This would work well and allow you to get past other walls.
    There isn't any reason to be rude to kitten, as the point of an RMT is to get advice.
  13. Meaty Man

    Meaty Man

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    The Gliscor issue is fixed. I don't know how it was allowed to happen.

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