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Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.
u can use gigalith just for him :)
So, I went through the Battle Subway, only to have my team beaten by a -4 Manectric critical hit Thunderbolt against my Jellicent, of all things to happen.
So, here's a run-down of my team, and it's a decent one, as it got me to Battle 39, until the above happened.
Jellicent @ Choice Specs
252 HP/252 SpD/6 HP
He works well as a special sponge and a decent attacker. It's better with 252 SpD than 252 HP EVs, mainly because he takes just a bit less from special attacks, and when going against Timid Life Orb Thundurus, Thunderbolt has a smaller chance of actually OHKO'ing Jellicent, allowing a definite OHKO against 6 HP Thundurus with Choice Specs Ice Beam. Energy Ball is for Gastrodon and the occasional Lapras, which tends to carry Thunder. Hydro Pump is for large damage with STAB and Choice Specs to anything that doesn't resist it. Now, with a Pokemon that can take special hits, I've also made a Pokemon that can also sponge physical hits, and he does a very good job at doing so, too.
Gligar @ Eviolite
252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
I had to give up Immunity for Roost, but it's totally worth it, since he's not evolving into Gliscor anytime soon. He can sponge physical hits like a boss, and stall with Toxic+Roost, and then there's the occasional critical hit. To some opponent Pokemon I cannot stall, Guillotine does the trick nicely, and it actually hits more often than I'm used to. Sometimes I think that %30 accuracy is misleading.
Scizor @ Steel Gem
I forgot the exact EVS, but it had some HP, max Attack, and some Special Defense.
Swords Dance on something that's not very threatening, and proceed to sweep. +2 STAB Steel Gem Technician Bullet Punch does a number to many Pokemon that do not resist. Big Bite can steal useful berries, he's also stolen Salac Berries, which is very useful as it makes Scizor's job better knowing he doesn't need to rely on priority to launch an attack first. Pursuit is for...super effective damage on Ghost-types.
As of typing, I have finished Battle 14, and I'm going to bed now, it's just after midnight, and I am crazy tired for some reason.
Is Pursuit really necessary? I mean, has it done anything worthwhile? In my experiences with Scizor, frail ghosts like Gengar and Froslass are easily sorted by Bullet Punch, and bulkier ghosts like Cofagrigus, Dusknoir and Spiritomb probably aren't going to care much about Pursuit anyway.
Maybe you could use Aerial Ace or Superpower or something? Superpower is nice because it have good coverage, though it's a 4th gen move tutor move which means getting a new Scizor. Aerial Ace is less useful, though it does cover fighting types (Gligar can probably handle many of the fighting types anyway).
Seems like a cool team though. Good luck!
Decided to sign up and post how im doing on the battle tower.
My best streak: 123
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Suicune @ Leftovers
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Lost to a lead Thundurus that most have had a +speed nature and a 31 iv to outspeed by Gengar by 1 with its troll 111 speed. I went for the Destiny Bond just incase something gay were to happen, (as in the back of my mind I knew this thing would somehow outspeed) and of course gets a paralyze on the thunderbolt, I get parahaxed, essentially giving him the easy 2 hit KO. I Sent out Garchomp to revenge kill but he managed to get off a focus blast as outrage failed to KO, bringing Garchomp to red health. My second outrage does indeed kill. He proceeds to send out a latios which revenge kills garchomp with dragon pulse (switching would have been pointless). I send out suicune, praying for him to not have thunderbolt, didnt really care about grass not as suicune could brush those off pretty easy. My wish came true, but instead he had thunder for the OHKO. gg.
My next team will still be focused around suicune who saved me numerous times, but will now feature its newest member, Scrafty. The set will look something like this:
Scrafty @ Leftovers
This thing is very similair to the one talked of just earlier (I guess great minds think alike as ive been wanting to use that set since the idea sparked on Scraftys analysis back in September haha). Scrafty and Suicune will work very well together as one is trained in a +Defense nature with 252HP/252Defense, and the other with a +Special Defense nature and 252HP/252SpDefense, allowing either to come in easily depending on the type of attacker and begin boosting their own attack and opposite defense in the form of bulk up and calm mind. I will most likely give Suicune a Chesto Berry, opting for lefties on Scrafty as shed skin negates chesto. Will post on my success!
Good job on your streak! Yeah you kind of do need something faster than base 111 speed nowadays to deal with Thundurus.
Just a minor thing:
None of the Latios in Subway have Grass Knot, and more importantly, even if one did, Grass Knot is 100 Base Power vs Suicune compared to Thunderbolt's 95 (not having factored in type effectiveness obviously), so it wouldn't make sense to be scared of Tbolt but not Grass Knot.
Nice team and well done on your streak, but I would suggest that you put Substitute over Rest on Suicune and Scrafty, because with the amount of battles you'll be playing, you're bound to get critted eventually.
wow i never realized suicune was so heavy lol, im actually pretty use to vaporeon who i know is much lighter and figured they about the same from their shape. I didnt even bother looking up latios because i knew it would have a SE move one way or another, but thankyou for the tip.
yeah i mean it definitly happens its just ice beam is the filler for water absorb pokes that always seem to pop up, usualy when suicune is my last guy, and rest always seems help the frequent statuses such as poison that really shuts suicune down. Really the strategy is to get off as many boosts as possible to the point where crits hurt much less, but im definitly gonna try it out. Thanks a lot guys!
Critical hits bypass offensive drops and defensive boosts
wow thankyou..didnt know that
for suicune i would suggest putting sub over icy wind if anything, foregoing rest on cm cune is kind of not an option unless you plan on relying on protect hax just to pressure stall
scrafty needs/wants it less because of the lol coverage that ice punch and stab dark/fighting grant it plus shed skin being made for a relatively bulky tank with rather reliable recovery in drain punch. that said, carl and i have tried scrafty in the subway and we're both sad to say it's underwhelming. we tried 252atk/252spe jolly which is nice cause it outspeeds the 110+ base speed crew (and thund/torn) with sitrus berry, but it just doesnt have the time to grab the requisite DDs to pack a punch before it has to start attacking. maybe a 252 SpD set would work better
Doubles Battle Tower Streak: 248
Snorlax @Sitrus Berry
Relaxed (+D –S)
EVs: 252 HP - 4 A - 252 D
- Belly Drum
- Rock Slide
Bronzong @Occa Berry
Sassy (+SD -S)
EVs: 252 HP - 156 D - 100 SD
- Trick Room
- Psych Up
- Rock Slide
- Gyro Ball
Metagross @Focus Sash
Brave (+A -S)
EVs: 156 HP - 252 A - 100 SD
- Psych Up
- Rock Slide
- Bullet Punch
Togekiss @Macho Brace
Quiet (+SA -S )
EVs: 100 HP - 156 D - 252 SA
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Grass Knot
That’s right, it’s a Trick Room, Belly Drum, Psych Up team.
I liked the idea of using Psych Up in the doubles tower. It’s a bit like a more-effective baton pass, and a really interesting set of pokes can learn it. It can also be really effective against Curse or Calm Mind opponents.
At first I was working with a special set, using a Volcarona to get a quiver dance and maybe a fiery dance boost and then passing that onto Suicune and Latios. The problem was that Rock Slide is so effective in doubles and Volcarona would often get taken out too early.
So I switched to a physical team and it turned out much better.
The idea is that Snorlax protects on turn 1 (unless there is no threat) while Bronzong sets up the trick room. Then Snorlax will Drum and Bronzong can Psych up on the same turn, before anything can sneak in and try to KO Snorlax.
With Trick Room and Belly Drum these guys have ultimate defence, speed and attack, to the point that they casually stroll through pretty much anyone.
If Snorlax gets taken out, Metagross jumps in and can Psych Up on Bronzong, which takes its attack to ludicrous levels.
It’s strange that of the 8 attacking moveslots on these guys there are only 3 types of attacks, but they do the job well, and the multi-targeting really eats up Sashes and Sturdy.
Then when you really need it there’s Togekiss. I never thought I’d be using a Macho Brace in the Subway, but after trying out a few different options, such as Telepathy Musharna, Togekiss won out due to its awesome movepool. With the Brace, Togekiss’s speed is just lower than Bronzong’s, making it pretty fast under Trick Room.
Grass Knot is for bulky, cursing Grounds and Waters (And especially Ground/Waters)
Airslash is for bulky fighting types that can cause the team some headaches. Especially when the bastards Bulk-up.
Aurasphere is perfect for cursing Umbreons as well as good insurance against Double Team hax.
Flamethrower is essential for Ferrothorn and Escavalier, as well as a bunch of other stuff.
Originally I was going to breed a Togekiss in HGSS to get Heat Wave, but I think Flamethrower might actually be better in the subway. I only need it occasionally, but it’s always critical that it hits, and the old rule of the Subway/Tower is that if something can go wrong, it will. A previous streak was ended when Airslash missed a Leftovers Scrafty 3 times in a row.
So basically, if the setup goes fine then there’s very little that can go wrong, but if the setup is badly disrupted, things can get messy.
Fortunately Bronzong with levitate and Occa Berry is such a defensive beast that through all the streaks he’s only been taken out on turn 1 a couple of times. On one memorable occasion he survived a Heracross Megahorn and an Infernape Life Orb Close Combat with 2 hp.
Much more likely is that he’ll be fully paralysed, confused, encored or taunted.
Taunt is probably the biggest threat to the team, fortunately the AI is not all that good at using it, and even if it does, Lax and Zong are so defensive that the opponent will need a fair bit of attacking power to cause any trouble.
One time Snorlax was frozen for 12 turns before defrosting with enough HP left to Belly Drum.
The other big threat is that fat jerk Conkeldurr.
If I face him turn 1 I have to protect with Snorlax, and in a lot of cases he’ll bulk-up which makes things pretty complicated. I could try switching in Togekiss on turn 1, but messing with the setup never goes well, and Conkeldurr can still get Togekiss into KO range by flinging its Iron Ball.
My streak was ended by a Shuckle. All it had to do was use encore really effectively so I couldn’t get the Drum off. If I don’t use Trick Room then Bronzong can’t Psych Up on the same turn as Snorlax Drums, and if I do then Shuckle is faster and can encore.
Normally I would be keen to Belly Drum on the first turn before Shuckle can do anything about it, but the other opponent was a Superpower Tyranitar which can KO Snorlax after the drum.
So the Shuckle proceeded to Gastro Acid away Zong’s Levitate twice, and also used power trick on Metagross while Tyranitar took out Snorlax and then Togekiss.
It actually came pretty close in the end, and if it wasn’t for Metagross’s weakened attack he could’ve quaked his way to victory.
I must say I had a fair bit of good luck in this streak, at least compared to all the others that only ever made it to about 90. And I’m glad it ended to some smart play by the AI rather than a bunch of crits or other hax.
It’s odd how this team is all 4th gen, and I wonder how it’d go in the tower. No Conkleldurr, but more 1HKO users, plus the tower is so much slower than the subway.
I’ve also been trying a Guard Split Shuckle with a Calm Mind Blissey. By using Bronzong’s reliable Trick Room services on the first turn, he can switch out to Blissey to who catches Shuckle’s Guard Split before anyone can do anything about it. Blissey can then use Calm Mind 6 times before Suicune jumps in with Psych up.
Although really slow, this is fairly reliable except for Roar and Whirlwind which wreak absolute havoc with the tactics.
So anyway, let me know if you have any ideas for improvements or any comments about the team/s.
That looks very similar to molf party (in idea and pokemon species). Very cool streak. Congrats.
@someguy i thought gastro acid didnt affect steel types...
@Ashenlock, I haven't heard of molf party but google tells me it was used in a championship, do you know what pokemon were in it or, or have a link? That would be really interesting.
@bluemon, gastro acid does work on steels. It was surprising that the AI knew to get rid of levitate, but as they seem to use it on Snorlax just as much in other situations I guess it just got lucky.
Edit: I found a video of the molf team. It was uploaded by TRE, which is cool considering he was the king of the Lv1 TR team back in the doubles tower.
I guess it's good that the subway takes the levels up so some of the old tactics don't work and we have to find new ones. Keeps things interesting.
Cradily and I managed a 76 win streak on the Super Multi Subway Line.
Prudence the Marowak (F) @Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Level 50 Stats: 136 145 130 57 100 97
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
Marowak is the powerhouse of the team – if she manages to grab a Swords Dance boost, it’s pretty much game over for the opponent. Protect saves Marowak from threatening super-effective attacks on turn one while Whimsicott Tailwinds, allowing her to outspeed almost all non-scarfers the following turn. Even when Marowak is unable to Swords Dance, a Helping Hand from Whimsicott still allows her to lay down the hurt. Earthquake and Rock Slide provide nice ‘edgequake’ coverage and smack both foes hard. Under Tailwind Marowak hits 194 speed, leaving her outsped only by Accelegor, Jolteon, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Electrode and scarfers. Lightning Rod is a nice bonus, absorbing Thunder Waves for Whimsicott and Hydreigon.
Butch the Machamp (M) @Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Level 50 Stats: 171 200 100 72 105 101
- Rock Slide
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
Machamp is a solid backup for Marowak, cleaning up anything left behind. Move choices are pretty self-explanatory. Rock Slide was chosen over Stone Edge to allow him to smack both opponents if necessary and its middling power is remedied with a Helping Hand from Whimsicott. Priority in Bullet Punch proves useful to finish off faster weakened foes if Tailwind peeters out or Trick Room is in effect. Max attack is of course a must, while 208 speed EVs put Machamp at 101 speed, allowing him to outrun scarf Skarmory and everything slower under Tailwind. The remaining EVs are dumped into HP for some added bulk.
Picture for proof:
As state above flavor0 and made streak of 76 on super multi.
Quintus – Whimsicott
Bold @ Air balloon
252 HP 44DEF 214 SPD
Tailwind / u-turn / helping hand / light screen
Whismicotts sole purpose is to support Marowak and Machamp in all ways possible. Nine times out of ten setting up tail wind is imperative while marowak protects/swords dances depending on the matchup. Once set up, the AI does us a favor of killing Whimsicott 9 times out of 10 giving me a free switch in for Hydregion. Sometimes, instead of tailwind/protect we will use helping hand + earthquake on the first turn if we out speed the enemies, light screen is usually a filler and helps in random situations. U-turn is great for killing sturdy/focus sash users. I do realize I am running bold with u-turn, I originally planned for using this Whimsicott for something else and I never got around to changing it, the ev’s are slightly off I should have a 122 in SPD but somewhere I screwed up the process.
The ev investments favor bulk by equalizing defenses. Marowak has a strong chance to OHKO Whimiscott with a swords dance and a helping hand.Just helping hand will do about 50% depending on the random roll. Without any speed investment Whimiscott reaches 136 speed which effectively out speeds any pokemon with tailwind up. This allows me to nearly always guarantee a u-turn hit and a switch out to Hydregion. This allows marowak to earthquake without hitting whimsicot if air balloon is broken. I originally ran leftovers but chose air balloon as the better option considering about 1 in every 7 battles air balloon would actually be helpful. Whereas leftovers was never helpful
@ life orb
Ev’s 156 HP 252 SPA 100SPE
Dark pulse / Dragon pulse / Draco meteor / Flamethrower
Hydregion main trait is the fact it has levitate, allowing free use of earthquake without killing me. Hydregion also outruns everything using its 262 speed during tail wind. This allows it to effectively kill nearly every single threat, especially pokemon who resist the earth-slide combo. At best, hydregion gets only 2 turns to play with tailwind, but that’s all the time it needs to destroy what marowak fails to hit. Hydregion does have much synergy with machamp but they do not share any weaknesses so I have yet to see them both get neutralized in the same turn. They rarely appear next to each other.
It should be noted that the whole team has 3 weaknesses to ice. Blizzard is a problem, but protect plus tailwind allows us to revenge kill/out speed most blizzard spammers.
How we lost
From the get go this team has always had problems with bulky water times especially those with ice attacks. Intimidate is a huge problem when it’s a lead. Therefore probably one of the biggest threats is a lead gyarados that prevents us from using swords dance safely by threating with a stab water attack.
This is what we faced on battle 77. They lead with gyarados and gastodon. We killed gyarados and lost marowak. Then machamp killed wailord that was sent out. Gastrodon weakened machamp. Gastrondon Then killed after uturning whimsicott out. Hydregion finished off gastrondon and then switched out to whimsicott as the opponent sent out the four water type slowking. I set up light screen he ice beamed for half health. I tailwinded to kill a turn so as to not take a ice beam. He crit killed me. I sent out hydregion and could not kill it with dark pulse due to its max hp/max SPD. To our luck, slowking crit me with ice beam again and hit through the light screen for the kill.
This battle emphasizes our water weakness. All in all a fun team to use.
a link of proof
Time to bumb this back to the first page, I think.
Anyway, after my singles team got swept by a freaking stockpile chesto rest weezing, I decided to was time to make a serious attempt at doubles. I haven't actually tried this yet, but I thought I'd post anyway to see what other people thought about it.
My team is a rain team. Nothing about it is finalised yet:
Politoed @ Choice Specs
Politoed starts the rain and basically sits there spamming Hydro Pump. The other moves are fillers. Ice Beam is for dragons, Focus Blast is for Ferrothorn, and Psychic is for Toxicroak.
Amoongus @ Leftovers
Although Spore may seem like the main attraction to this set, I'm actually using it for Rage Powder. With this move, all of those nasty grass and electric moves aimed at Politoed are drawn in. It makes it easier for Politoed to attack freely. If I sense a super effective move is coming Amoongus's way, I Protect. Spore is useful for putting big threats away for a while. Giga Drain prevents it from being absolute taunt bait and does a number on water/ground types (though taunt still sucks obviously).
Magnezone @ Shuca Berry
Magnezone's typing is good for this team as it resists both of my leads weaknesses except fire (which isn't that big a deal as it's raining). It mainly fires off powerful Thunders.
Kingdra @ Life Orb
Boring! Outspeeds everything in rain and cleans up.
Does anyone think this could work? I think it could have potential. I'll try it out and see how it goes.
Pokemon Black Version Super Singles Record: 105
My first post here. I've been monitoring this thread for a while now and I've been trying different combinations and ideas of mostly what I see here. Eventually I found a team that worked after trying countless others.
Darmanitan @Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EV's: 4HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Lv.50 Stats: 175/ 210/ 69/ 32/ 69/ 143
Nickname: The Cune
IV's: 26/ 31/ 9/ 19/ 3/ 25
EV's: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe
Lv.50 Stats: 204/ 85/ 171/ 104/ 121/ 103
Latios @Life Orb
IV's: 11/ 27/ 6/ 9/ 9/ 25
EV's: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Lv.50 Stats: 146/ 98/ 88/ 171/ 119/ 169
Yeah, let's hear it for the people that don't have enough time to breed their Pokemon for perfect IV's! That was probably the reason for me losing in the end, but at least I made it to 105. After trying to use sets around my two of my most favorite Pokemon, Scizor and Togekiss, and also trying out Darmanitan, Gyarados and Terrakion together, I did some research and I found a team that worked.
The first member is Hihidaruma. This thing kills almost anything that doesn't resist fire with a Flare Blitz. This attack was a lifesaver time after time again. It's ridiculously overpowered. Tie that in with the ability to outspeed anything not scarfed and you get Hihidaruma tearing whole teams apart. I tried using other leads, but nothing compared to the satisfying feeling of watching nearly any enemy fall to the power of Flare Blitz. U-Turn was especially useful as well with breaking sashes and Sturdies as well as dealing some damage while Suicune or Latios came in and took or avoided the hit. Mostly ground type attacks were aimed at him the first turn such as earthquake or Bulldoze, so Latios could almost always switch in safely, or Suicine could switch in and take the hit and start setting up. I only used Rock Slide on Charizards, Dragon/Flying types, and sometimes Pilots, but it missed a lot for 90 accuracy. I also only used Superpower on DD Tyranitar and Heatran, most of the time Hihidaruma was Flare Blitzing or U-Turning.
If I had to pick an MVP, it would probably have to be The Cune. This guy can take any hit and survive it easily. The move Scald fit him perfectly as he could burn physical attackers or wear away at Double Team users or Toxic stallers. It also can defrost him, which has been useful in a few situations. With this, The Cune basically comes in, burns, and sets up with CM. Icy Wind may seem inferior to Ice Beam, but the speed drop has proven to be very useful when using Latios for a revenge kill, since it only has 15 speed IV's. Rest was also useful for curing status conditions and ensuring that I still had full health after stalling out Pokemon that I had burned. Overall The Cune could tear teams apart while taking hits like crazy, and was definitely useful as a wall.
Latios was my least favorite to use, but useful nevertheless. Dragon Pulse obviously for STAB and coverage. Psyshock was very helpful against Blisseys and Tentacuels. Thunderbolt supported my team the most with pokemon like Gyarados and Starmie who could potentially KO Hihidaruma and The Cune before they could kill them first. Ice Beam was useful for grass types such as Sceptile, which also gave my team troubles if Hihidaruma was already dead.
I lost to a Psychic with a Musharna. I forgot to save the video so the battle is based off of memory.
1: Hihidaruma U-turn, ~65%, The Cune in, Musharna CM
2: Cune Scald, burn, ~55%, Musharna CM
3: Cune CM, Musharna Rest, Chesto Berry wakes it up
4: Cune CM, Musharna Shadow Ball, ~75%,
5: Cune Scald, ~90%, Musharna Shadow Ball, ~55%
6: Cune CM, Musharna Shadow Ball, ~40%
7: Cune Scald, ~70%, Musharna Shadow Ball, CH, Cune fainted
8: Latios in, Psyshock, ~45%, Musharna Shadow Ball, Latios fainted
9: Hihi in, Flare Blitz, Musharna fainted
10: Golurk in, Hihi Flare Blitz, ~5%, Golurk EQ, Hihi fainted
Curse you Musharna. Anyway, I knew my imperfect Pokemon had to lose eventually, at least I got the rare berry right before they did. I'm going to move on to Doubles and try Multi with my friend because I want the other two trophies in my room.
My new team:
Whimsicott@ Choice Scarf
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Suicune @ Chesto Berry
Well here it is. Starts off with a simple 'trick" lead. I chose Flash over certain status moves such as Stun Spore or Cotton Spore etc. simply because of the perfect accuracy as a miss can really play a factor in winning or losing a battle, and lowering the opponent's accuracy never hurts. The nature and IV's of Whimsicott provide him with great special bulk, and after a few Charms, it's really a pain to take down and even sweeps teams itself after setting up a Leech Seed.
After I swtich the Scarf on the opponent, I must decide if I should switch right away, or set up. If I know I can stall the opponent after locking them into a move I know I can take hits from and safely set up the leech seed, I proceed to set up flashes to slowly sap health away. When I know the opponent has one more turn to live of leech seed, I steal back my Scarf, let the opponent die and repeat the process on the next Pokemon.
When I trick an opponent the Scarf on a move I know I cant set up on, I decide on swtiching to either Suicune or Scrafty based on the type of move, and wether it is special or physical. If the move is special and isnt a flying or fighting move, such as an Air Slash or Aura Sphere, I switch to Scrafty as his special bulk is insane with the given IVs and Careful nature. If its a physical move and I know I can sponge hits and safely set up with Calm Mind, I send out Suicune who can take physical hits all day, especially with the occasional burn from Scald. Both Pokemon have boosting moves of the opposite defense as they are trained in, basically making it impossible to take them down once they set up.
Both dont mind status as they bnoth carry Rest. I chose Leftovers on Scrafty and Chesto berry on Suicune as Shed Skin works as a psuedo Chesto, allowing Scrafty to awaken from rest early on its on if i get lucky. I am only 20 wins or so in but this team definitly has potential, and hasn't come across any problems thus far.
*I'm looking for a replacement for one of the two "walls", as both have STAB moves that are immune to many pokemon, something that can really screw me over in the long run. I want to be able to use Sub to protect myself against crits, but many things are immune to Fighting and Water attacks, forcing me to double up on both of their moves. Any suggestions?
I've been having good success using Whimsicott in the subway, highest streak is only 53 but I'm working on the other 2 members of the team, so far having decent success with a Shell Smash Cloyster and Registeel.
I find Encore on her to be absolutely monstrous in allowing Closter to come in boost up and sweep, while Registeel can usually handle what Cloyster can't with Paraflinch or Seismic Toss. Will do some more playing, see what needs tweaked and hopefully should see the other side of 100+ soon.
Hello. It's been months since I even checked this thread or played Pokemon (apart from one day at a tournament).
Various circumstances have made me decide to give the Subway a real attempt this time. As a point of reference, my 'real attempt' back in Gen 4 resulted in a 646 streak. I haven't even bothered to get a 100 streak in Gen 5 yet, but now I have some motivation. Seeing Jumpman's success, his and Peterko's streaks, and interesting team ideas that aren't all just Trick teams makes it interesting enough for me to return.
As for what team I'll use, there is one Pokemon I've become quite fond of ever since using it at a real-life tournament last month, which I think has the potential to sweep any team if given the right support. I won't give anything away until I've made the team and tested it.
nice to see you coming back DrDimentio, hope it lasts a while ;)
I´m kind of having a difficult time in the subway right now, because my level of play has dropped by quite a lot and I´m doing stupid mistakes that cost me streaks...maybe I need a break, playing too much makes the losses even more disappointing, I only count the hours I throw out of the window lol
anyway, I´ll post a few of my recent streaks, here´s the team I wrote about in one of my latest posts (I used this team two weeks ago)
Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle notable streaks: 52, 70, 70, 79
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / x / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 252 / 4 / 0 / 4 / 244
Lv.50: 181 / 200 / 211* / 52 / 99* / 91
~ Rock Slide
Item: Choice Scarf*
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / x / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 252
Lv.50: 161 / 189 / 90 / 63 / 70 / 228*
~ Brave Bird
~ Close Combat
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 0 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 6 / 252
Lv.50: 135 / 84 / 105 / 152 / 106 / 183
~ Ice Beam
Item: Life Orb
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 2 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 86 / 252 / 4 / 0 / 4 / 164
Lv.50: 156 / 200 / 121 / 54 / 101 / 106
~ Bug Bite
~ Bullet Punch
~ Swords Dance
Basically, I wanted to test Reckless Staraptor. The initial idea was to pair it up with a Lightningrod Seaking to get some spA boosts as both are weak to electric (wasn´t sure how the AI would handle the hidden ability Seaking), but on the day I was breeding stuff I didn´t RNG a Goldeen.
Still, I was motivated to use Staraptor, which is my avatar since the start of 4th gen but unfortunately I never got around using the Pokémon in any competitive way. As for what my personal emotions are towards Staraptor, well it´s a cool Pokémon and I stumbled upon a pic of it when 4th gen started and found it awesome, so I added Peterko to the picture to personalize it and stuck with it. It´s not my favourite Pokémon, I don´t think I have one particular, but if I had to decide, it would be Arcanine.
OK enough of the stuff that noone cares about...I didn´t have a LRod Goldeen, but it reminded me of my old Rhydon sitting in my box, it was 5max IV wise (but naughty), bred in emerald before RNG manipulation was figured out. As I stated in my previous post, I´ve used Rhydon (with QC) in the 3rd gen alongside Crobat (CB) as leads in doubles and they were awesome together. So now I was going through my boxes of Pokémon I bred / caught in Black and the Pokémon I transferred over and saw a lv.100 Rhydon. Hey wasn´t there an item that boosts defenses of NFE Pokémon, Eviolite? Hell yes, it will take hits like a champ. Note that later I rebred for a perfect Adamant one.
After the leads were decided I just made a quick "type effectiveness/weaks" check in my head to put something in the back and went with Scizor (4x grass resist) and Starmie (ice/water resist plus Scald)...well it was supposed to be a "hey I want to try this" run, so I didn´t do heavy theorymon, testing while playing is an alternative way to figure out weaks/threats, also wasn´t sure how the AI would handle Lightningrod and stuff.
I went with adamant Staraptor because I only bred an adamant one (at that time), I knew it didn´t outspeed everything, but yeah test run. Choice Scarf was given as it would not live long enough with the awful defenses and crazy recoil from two STAB 144 base power attacks in Brave Bird and Double-Edge. Close Combat is obvious and I just used U-Turn as the 4th move that I would use maybe once later. Rhydon knew Earthquake, Rock Slide, Megahorn and Rock Blast. Obviously I wanted to teach him Protect, but before the initial few runs I wasn´t sure which rock move to use and thus tested both first and later stuck with Rock Slide. Don´t forget that Rhydon has one of the highest Attack stats in the "I earthquake" group (the same as Garchomp and Mamoswine).
Starmie was the Specsmie from the StarCroak lead I´ve been using since last gen, but after some tests with it I figured living and having a shot at hitting something >>> fainting without doing anything, so I made it hold a Focus Sash. The damage output is awful, but at least it helps to clean up. Using something in the back row that you´re used to lead with is quite difficult, because in case of a lead your mindset is more like "no problem if it faints", but to faint when you´re the clean up squad is bad. Scizor is purely an amazing Pokémon that I have much exp. with in the back row, it can basically save your butt against almost everything when things go wrong, but please, get rid of the Fires first ;)
Here´s a few calcs I did with Rhydon on the physical defensive side. Let me say that the way it takes those hits is ridiculous. But everything that´s fun has a downside, in Rhydon´s case it´s Water attacks/Water Types. Grass Types are not really a threat, because Staraptor hits those for insane damage plus Scizor is very reliable. Also at first, I wanted to use a 252atk / 252sD / 6speed version of it, I calced it would survive even a Glaceon 75% power Blizzard, but then I checked the speed tiers and went with 91 speed (max is 92) instead of 61 as that would allow it to outspeed 208 more Subway Pokémon (312/780 instead of 104/780) and that´s a lot.
[size=-2]RHYDON @ Eviolite: Lightningrod 181-200-211-x-99-91
- will always survive:
< 155 atk STAB Aqua Tail - 182 atk Muscle Band Gyarados 1 (100% OHKO), 176 atk Carracosta 1 (75% OHKO), 160 atk Feraligatr 2 (25% OHKO), 157 atk Floatzel 1 (6,25% OHKO)
- won´t OHKO: 150 atk Quagsire 3, 148 atk Blastoise 3, 145 Gyarados 4, 130 atk Whiscash 2, 103 atk Blastoise 1
< 155 atk STAB Leaf Blade - 178 atk Leafeon 34 (75% OHKO), 162 atk Leafeon 2 (25% OHKO)
- won´t OHKO: 142 atk Virizion 13, 137 atk Sceptile 2, 130 atk Leafeon 1, 110 atk Virizion 4
< 174 atk STAB Waterfall - 157 atk LO Floatzel 4 (87,5% OHKO), 194 atk Gyarados 2 (56,25% OHKO) , 178 atk Swampert 3 (6,25% OHKO), 177 atk Gyarados 3 (6,25% OHKO), 176 atk Carracosta 34 (6,25% OHKO)
- won´t OHKO: 172 atk Feraligatr 4, Kingdra 12, 155 atk Feraligatr 3, 148 atk Blastoise 4, Gastrodon 24, Politoed 13, Poliwrath 1234, Quagsire 4, Samurott 3, Swampert 24, Tenta 2, Wailord 24
< 189 atk STAB Focus Punch - none
< 218 atk STAB Hi Jump Kick - Medicham 34 100% OHKO (EB/LO)
< 236 atk STAB Close Combat - LO Sawk 4 (43,75% OHKO), Guts Hariyama 3, Guts Machamp 4
< 236 atk STAB Superpower - none
< 283 atk STAB 100% Earthquake - none
< 283 atk STAB Dynamicpunch - none
< 283 atk STAB Cross Chop - none
< 315 atk STAB Sacred Sword - none
< 333 atk STAB Icicle Crash - none
< 348 atk STAB Aqua Jet - none
< 354 atk STAB Dig - none
< 378 atk STAB 75% Earthquake - none
< 378 atk STAB Ice Punch - none
< 378 atk STAB Brick Break - none[/size]
Well, the team is fun to use and Staraptor is a monster, but I had a very difficult time handling Water types, Parasol Ladies are a nightmare. The highest streak I lost to double-water lead that was surfing me into oblivion. Afterwards I theorymoned that it would be nice to say FU water with a Storm Drain Gastrodon switch in, but I would have to breed it in HGSS for Earth Power and so far was lazy to do so.
Compared to Solid Rock Rhyperior, Eviolite Rhydon takes physical SE hits slightly worse (very few % difference) while it takes everything else much much better. The difference becomes heavy, because the point of Rhydon as a lead in doubles is Lightningrod. Another option is to use a Focus Sash, but then there´s no reason to use Rhydon over Rhyperior, which does 5,5% more damage.
Anyway, Staraptor with Brave Bird/DE is comparable to Darmanitan in the "hitting like a truck" group, yes Darm gets 20% more power behind Flare Blitz, but it´s slower with a scarf and its second boosted attack in Rock Slide isn´t comparable to DE. Staraptor was so good it sometimes got as many as 3 KOs per battle. Last week I bred a Jolly Raptor and the next time I use it, I´ll go with Final Gambit (241 speed > scarf terrakion, rest in HP = 167).
Rhydon was great with QuakeSlide support, I know about Megahorn´s accuracy but it never let me down, because what you need to hit with it, you get always at least 2 shot at because of your bulk (like Bronzong or other bulky psychics). As I said, you really need something to take the water attacks to take this team further than I did. Other than that, it was a really refreshing experience for me.
Yeah one more note about Lightningrod, the AI is not as stupid with it as it is with Dry Skin Toxicroak. After the first electric attack is drawn to Rhydon, the AI won´t use an electric attack again, while it still repeatedly Hydro Pumps Toxicroak. I wonder what would happen if I had used Seaking.
I´m aware of the fact that 79 is not an earth-shattering streak, but I don´t care as I´ve used cool Pokémon and the team wasn´t at its full potential.
Later, maybe tomorrow, I´ll post about another quite unique doubles team (kind of NU poké lead) that I got to 166 with on the first try and that I keep losing with only due to my own awful mistakes, also about my experience with pus..I mean Cloyster in singles
I've gotten a different result from this. A few days ago I got bored with my teams so I decided to hack myself a Lightningrod Zapdos for experimental purposes, and the AI still fires off Electric attacks even if it is on the field - to both Zapdos and its partner (I've gotten +6 Zapdos multiple times simply by absorbing the enemy's Thunder Waves/Bolts/etc).
Maybe it has something to do with immunities.
great team idea peterko, few months back i ran a sandstorm team and tried a trick room one with rhydon. cant remember how much succes got tho but with evo don is a great tank. anyway reason i posting is to say you should try a storm drain gastrodon due to i used it on both teams where don was involved and it worked great and abusing the stat ups decently, so would recommend giving it a try if u continue with this team lol.
now onto me. off late i just havent had the time but still being messing about here and there, (got a 4hour flight soon so been coming up with ideas and getting pokes ready so when on holiday can have options on teams etc) but recently i've been kinda obsessed with getting a butterfree to work lol.
the hole idea is to abuse the free turns it can gain you mainly from sleep, i've currently only really played well with it using a fake out and swords dance infernape, idea was to fake out + sleep powder turn one, sleep powder awake poke while dancing with ape, followed by either attract or rage power from free and attack with ape, it worked out but not anything outstanding.
then i decided that if i'm going to be setting up i need to be able to hit both pokes hard so testing a garchomp out atm same idea but sub instead fakeout. again working ok but not amazing, still some thinking to be done here, also the back up is a hugh problem havent found any which work as yet :( my highest with butterfree atm is in the high 40s so not great but got feeling i can get it there with help if anyone has ideas?
its a real shame unerve houndoom cant learn heatwave, would ignor all sleep stopping berrys so butterfree be almost unstopable and plus hitting both targets with +2 heatwave from houndoom sounds fun lol. shame no other unerve pokes are workable unless i missed one lol.
anywhoooo good luck everyone :)