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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Tyranitar can't hit most Fighting-types so you will be forced to switch to Jellicent. Jellicent will probably lose if they have a strong Fling or Payback considering that Jellicent doesn't have Scald to hinder most Fighting-types. Your opponents in the Subway aren't afraid of Excadrill like we are so they will sit there and smack it, and Life Orb is only making Excadrill's life shorter. Only Excadrill has the ability to raise its stats which is vital in the Subway, Tyranitar would be made setup bait after Superpower. That's about as critical as I can get
  2. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    @lmitchell0012: Why the hell is Jellicent holding Leftovers when Tyranitar's Sandstream is just going to cancel it out anyway?

    Funnily enough I'm using Trick Room currently!

    For Trick Room leads, it is a good idea to run something that can help guarantee Trick Room getting set up, like Fake Out or Rage Powder/Follow Me. So if you are wanting to use Marowak on your team it might be better to use it as a back-up.

    I personally use Fake Out. Not only does it stop Taunt, it also helps prevent annoying status moves before Trick Room is set up (Trick Room teams attract LOTS of status moves because they are usually bulky which gives the opponents the urge to use status moves instead of trying to kill). For Trick Room teams, Hariyama and Scrafty are good choices (I use Scrafty). Hariyama is more powerful and is 'faster' in Trick Room, but Scrafty has a good secondary STAB and Moxie turns it into an absolute monster very quickly (alot of the time, just one Moxie boost is enough for Scrafty to destroy teams).

    Rage Powder could acheive the same thing really. It has the advantage of being usable after the first turn, but it means that you have to get the Rage Powder user statused, and if it gets hit with Taunt it won't be able to use it anyway. Amoongus is easily the best user of it for Trick Room teams, since it's bulky and slow.

    Anyway hopefully that gave you stuff to think about.
  3. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    I've used trick room a while back so i've already got a Hariyama, Brozong and Amoongus ready to use so they were options for the back up.

    Last time i used Brozong and Marowak in the lead abusing trick room and gravity. The plan was to protect with Marowak first turn while Brozong TRs, then second turn use gravity followed by boomerang, then third was hypnosis one with Bro while attacking with Marowak again.

    It worked out ok and Bro was nearlly unkillable while a double hitting 100% ac boomerang from Marowak is leathal lol. Then Hariyama was back up but i never found a suitable 4th and got bored of the team lol.

    Anyway onto my new idea of Slowbro + Marowak. Marowak is my favorite pokemon and i've always wanted to do something impressive with him but i find TR so iffy and luck relient that i keep putting it off but now i'm ready to try it again lol.

    The synergy between bro and wak is obvious with wak taking the electric attacks aimed at bro. But as you said the problem will be in the ability to get TR up every match, while abusing a RP or FO lead would work it kind of makes wak useless for my orginal idea lol. The main down side to these leads is the obvious grass weakness and the fact they really need TR active to have an effect on the battle. Although i guess these to could function as back up sweepers and use something like zong and Hariyama in the lead slot.

    Hmmm i really don't know lol

    Edit:

    Actually tail wind isn't as stupid as it sounds, i've always looked away from it thinking Marowak couldn't pull it off but after looking he has a decent 212 speed under tail wind which out speeds a massive chunk of the subway with only this faster:

    258 - Manectric 4
    250 - Entei 3
    240 - Terrakion 2
    231 - Garchomp 3
    229 - Landorus 2
    228 - Staraptor 2
    228 - Typhlosion 3
    225 - Pinsir 4
    216 - Accelgor 1
    216 - Accelgor 3
    216 - Accelgor 4

    And in truth none of them stand out to me as worrying unless i'm missing something.
  4. Gertle627

    Gertle627

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
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    18
    In my limited Cloyster use, I've found the biggest problems to be fighting types (esp w priority like Mienshao), t-wave, & sturdy. To counter the electrics, I used Electivire. Getting that speed boost was nice, but he still didn't get enough KOs for me. And for the fighting types, I tried out CB Mence w/ Aerial Ace. Which worked decently well. The biggest problem came when there was a mixture of these. I only managed to get into the 40s w/ Cloyster, but am not giving up on it yet.
  5. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Yeah Bronzong is a good Trick Room setter, but my main issue with him is that he's so weak. Gyro Ball is fairly powerful but it doesn't actually kill very much even with a speed-lowering item, and any damage done by any coverage moves that you run will amaze you at how little they do. I was using it as a back-up though. It may be better as a lead since it can set up Trick Room more reliably than most other things. After Trick Room is up it doesn't do very much though, and I prefer my Trick Room users to actually deal damage.

    I've never tried Slowbro though so I can't really comment on that. It should do ok though.

    With my team, I lost last night at about 50 wins. I played badly against a lead Sawk (I hate this thing as a lead because of the Inner Focus risk and the fact that it can straight up kill my Scrafty with Close Combat) and in the end I didn't get Trick Room set up which left my Metagross hopeless against the back-up fire types (Blaziken and Scarf Typhlosion locked into Focus Blast). From now on, I'm gonna actually prioritise getting Trick Room up instead of keeping Scrafty alive since it is far more important and would have allowed me to win easily.

    (By the way I'm currently using Scrafty/Beheeyem/Metagross/Jellicent. Jellicent isn't that amazing but it is way better than Gyarados).
  6. Tebow

    Tebow

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Streak Finally ended at 156 because of my stupidity

    Stoutland @ Focus Sash
    Jolly - Intimidate
    Max Hp and Max Speed
    Thunderwave
    Snarl
    Charm
    Sand Attack

    Volcarona @ Leftovers
    Bold - Flame Body
    Max HP and Defense
    Substitute
    Quiver Dance
    Flamethrower
    HP Ground


    Suicune @ Chesto Berry
    Bold - Pressure
    NOt exactly sure on Spread but i think Max HP and Defense
    Subsitute
    Calm Mind
    Rest
    Scald


    Lead With Stoutland. paralyze and/or Cripple according to the type of attacker it is, and squeeze in Sand Attack When i can.

    If the Enemy has Rock, Flying, or Water Attacks, set up and Sweep With Suicune. Otherwise Set up and sweep with Volcarona

    How i Lost:
    Crippled Vaporeon4 with an Intimidate, T-Wave, 1 Snarl and 1 Sand Attack before Stoutland bit the dust.
    I went into volcarona stupidly.
    Sub -> Surf HIts
    Sub -> Surf Hits
    Sub -> Surf Hits
    Sub -> Surf HIts
    Quiver Dance -> Surf Hits -> Volcarona Dead
    In comes Suicune and i fully set up and PP stall it and struggle it to death
    In Comes Leafeon4
    Leafeon Leaf Blade -> Scald hits it down to red
    Leafeon Detect -> Scald Misses
    Leafeon Leaf Blades hits me down to red -> i STUPIDLY try to Sub and fail
    Leafeon Leaf Blade -> i die 8-(
    Not that it mattered cuz it already outsped by Leafeons quick claw activated every turn. (-___-)


    http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy171/tebow904/photo.jpg
  7. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Actually it's funny how Trick Room is being discussed because I tried my Trick Room team AGAIN with the rare spare time I managed to find and managed to improve slightly on my last Trick Room team: 82 (in Subway Super Doubles obviously).

    [​IMG]

    Scrafty @ Life Orb
    Brave
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
    EVs: 252/252/4/0/0/0
    Stats: 172/156/136/62/135/56
    Moxie

    Drain Punch
    Crunch
    Fire Punch
    Fake Out

    [​IMG]

    Beheeyem @ Focus Sash
    Quiet
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 244/0/12/252/0/0
    Stats: 181/93/97/194/115/40
    Telepathy

    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Ally Switch
    Trick Room

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Steel Gem
    Brave
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
    EVs: 252/252/0/0/4/0
    Stats: 187/205/150/112/111/67
    Clear Body

    Iron Head
    Earthquake
    Ice Punch
    Bullet Punch

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Quiet
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 148/0/108/252/0/0
    Stats: 194/72/104/150/125/58
    Water Absorb

    Water Spout
    Ice Beam
    Energy Ball
    Scald

    This isn't so different from what I had before (Scrafty/Beheeyem/Bronzong/Gyarados) so I'll just go over the changes:

    • Scrafty has Fire Punch over Ice Punch. Ice Punch was for Dragons but it wasn't particularly good for that purpose anyway. Fire Punch is good for Escavalier mainly. However, I've only faced one and it was a back-up, so it outsped Scrafty (in Trick Room) anyway. I've been considering Protect in the third moveslot so I can deal with Inner Focus leads more easily (Sawk, Lucario, Dragonite and Meinshao aren't nice, and even Throh, Crobat and Alakazam shouldn't be underestimated). Other than that it still works the same: outsped in Trick Room and start a snowball sweep with Moxie boosts. It still has its flaws (lacks initial power in some battles and it isn't as slow as I'd like) but the benefits outweigh these in my opinion.
    • Since Scrafty has Fire Punch, Beheeyem now has Thunderbolt instead of Hidden Power Fire. Thunderbolt is more powerful and being able to run a 0 speed IV lets me outspeed/speed-tie with a couple of extra things. It isn't a huge change though and it still works the same way: set up Trick Room and hit hard with Psychic/Thunderbolt, and use Ally Switch as required.
    • Metagross is better than Bronzong. I actually used this Metagross on my Hariyama/(Beheeyem/Reuniclus)/Metagross/Honchkrow team, but it works well here too. Bronzong's back-up Trick Room wasn't particularly useful and Metagross is more powerful overall. It has a priority attack for out-of-Trick-Room situations and it is a good check for Dragons. I would use Life Orb if I could since Metagross appreciates the extra power, but Steel Gem is ok. It is the equivalent of a Choice Band boost and though it is one-use, one attack is usually all that is needed. Choice Band itself is temptimg but I hate locking a back-up into a move.
    • Jellicent wishes it had higher stats, but it is WAY better than Gyarados. The type coverage is great and it's resistances and immunities (it has 3 of them) are awesome. Still, I wish it were more powerful (Water Spout can't even 2HKO many things). It also gets 2HKOed rather easily itself, especially on the physical side (Leftovers helps a bit but it doesn't help if both opponents attack Jellicent). I'm thinking something like Azumarill or Dragonite could work well as replacements. I'm not worrying about it now, though I might try them later if I feel compelled to try Trick Room again.
    I lost to a legendary team that used Zapdos 2 as a lead. For reference:

    930 | Zapdos | Bold | BrightPowder | Charge Beam | Heat Wave | Double Team | Roost | HP/SpD

    I think everyone can guess how I lost. I chose to focus on it to try and get rid of it quickly, but I missed every single attack I tried. Maybe I should have just left it alone and focused on its partners, but there isn't a lot I can do about it now. It was a disappointing way to end my streak though, since I was hoping to beat my current best.

    Anyway, I'm gonna try another singles team with Prankster Illumise with Thunderwave/Struggle Bug/Charm/Flash as a lead probably with Dragonite and something else as back-ups. Hopefully it'll work out ok but I am a little concerned about Illumise's lack of bulk.
  8. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    204
    Somehow I knew I couldn't stop playing the subway :( Anyway, my new streak stands at 130 wins!

    Shuckle @Chesto Berry
    Bold - Sturdy
    EVs: HP/ 94 Def/164 SpD
    - Rest
    - Power Split
    - Stealth Rock
    - Struggle Bug

    This turtle is a boss. Like someone noticed earlier, Power Split is kinda like Memento, except it doesn't make me faint. Stealth Rock breaks sturdy and sashes. Struggle Bug is awesome in crippling special attackers.

    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Adamant - Multiscale
    EVs: HP/Atk
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Punch
    - Roost

    This guy is simply amazing. After 5 dragon dances he's guaranteed to outspeed and OKHO the whole subway after SR damage, with the exception of Heatran who gets two shotted and does pathetic damage to Dragonite after Power Split. Lum Berry is essential, gets rid of status which could otherwise stop the sweep.

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Sassy - Iron Barbs
    EVs: HP/SpD
    - Curse
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    He comes out when I'm facing something with ice, dragon or STAB rock moves. He can die to special attackers with fire moves after setting up, but that's not a problem since then Dragonite can mop up.

    I have problems with straight-out status booster leads. I nearly got destroyed by Sword Dancing Skarmory because Shuckle lacks Taunt or phazing abilities. I'm not sure what can I do about that. AI taunt leads aren't very problematic, since I can usually just PP stall their Taunt by switching.

    How I lost?
    I lost to something that should be banned in the Subway: OHKO move. Some random Rapidash one shotted my Dragonite with Horn Drill, then Flare Blitzed my Ferro to death, and finished off Shuckle with Iron Tail spam. If it wasn't for that stupid Horn Drill, I would have easily won.
  9. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    @Tebow: Your post reminded me of the other reason why I don't put Volcarona and Suicune on the same team -> it's either a long long battle when vs-ing water immune pokemon (if you set up with Suicune) or a risky one if you're setting up with Volcarona. It's also the reason why I ended up using Mono-Bug Buzz + Lum-Rest Volcarona too, since Volcarona's not bulky enough to set up on a lot of things without Lum/Chesto-Rest. It's just easier to set up with berry-rest.

    With only one Snarl down, yeah, setting up with Volcarona is just asking for trouble. You still should have switch to Suicune instead of just sacrificing Volcarona though. Even at low health,Volcarona can still potentially beat some grass or ice types. If you are sticking with the current team, I recommend giving Chesto/Lum-Rest Bug Buzz Volcarona a try. It's only walled by 3 sound proof pokemon (Mr. Mime, Electrode, Exploud), and vs one of those leads, you can also "test" it out by using Snarl.

    Of course, I still think a Dragon (like Dragonite) pairs better with either of those (Volcarona/Suicune) than those two together, but if you use Dragonite to replace either Volcarona or Suicune, your team would be nearly identical to either the team I'm using (Stout-Drag-Sui) or a team I've used before (Stout-Volc-Drag).

    EDIT: I still haven't been playing any pokemon the past few days... I think my streak is currently at 14 heh.
  10. Eppie

    Eppie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    After a long time of not playing Subway I've been trying Trick Room too since today and here's the team:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Musharna @ Sitrus Berry
    Relaxed (+Def / -Speed) / Telepathy
    252 HP / 120 Def / 132 Sp.Def / 4 Sp.Atk

    - Yawn
    - Psychic
    - Trick Room
    - Helping Hand

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Scrafty @ Expert Belt
    Brave (+Atk / -Speed) / Moxie
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Sp.Def

    - Detect
    - Crunch
    - Fake Out
    - Drain Punch

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Snorlax @ Normal Gem
    Brave (+Atk / -Speed) / Thick Fat
    12 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Def / 180 Sp.Def

    - Crunch
    - Fire Punch
    - Selfdestruct
    - Double-Edge

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Quiet (+Sp.Atk / -Speed) / Magic Guard
    172 HP / 28 Def / 252 Sp.Atk / 56 Sp.Def

    - Psyhic
    - Trick Room
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ice

    +1 Normal Gem Selfdestructs from Snorlax are no joke, and Scrafty really shines after one or two Moxie boosts. I'm not too happy/sure about Reuniclus yet but for now it'll do.
  11. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    hahahahaha Selfdestruct Snorlax + Telepathy Musharna is a great idea. I am wondering if running Scrafty and Snorlax together is a good idea though. Don't get me wrong, Scrafty is a very good pokemon, but Scrafty and Snorlax both have a Fighting weakness, which could make it difficult to switch Snorlax in for Scrafty so you can get Snorlax and Musharna together for Selfdestruct.

    If you ever want to replace Reuniclus, I would suggest something with Fighting, Flying or Bug resistance, since Musharna and Scrafty won't like them. Running Detect on Scrafty helps with this issue though (block the incoming Flying or Fighting attack while Musharna sets up Tirck Room; once Trick Room is up most battles are fairly straight forward).
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
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    Ghost types come to mind, resisting Fighting and Bug (resisting both Fighting and Flying will be tough... there's only Zapdos and Rotom and those aren't viable in TR). Ghost types will also have a bit of synergy with Snorlax's Self-Destruct.
  13. pifou69

    pifou69

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Battle Subway Doubles
    Streak: 327
    Team: Politoed, Ludicolo, Toxicroak, Ferrothorn

    Proof

    [​IMG]

    Exactly same team as http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4113141&postcount=1390

    No difference. I just play a little bit better

    How I lost

    Turn 1 vs Snorlax and Jolteon
    Ludicolo surf, jolteon with orange HP, Snorlax about 80% HP
    Jolteon Thunder, Politoed KO (Just forgot Jolteon could be faster than Politoed)
    Snorlax double edge, Ludicolo KO, Snorlax with orange HP (double edge and life orb)

    Turn 2
    Toxicroak and ferrothorn out
    Toxicroak fake out jolteon, red HP
    Snorlax double edge toxicroak, focus sash, Snorlax with red HP
    Ferrothorn leech seed Snorlax, snorlax KO

    Turn 3
    Archeops out
    Toxicroak sucker punch jolteon, jolteon KO
    Ferrothorn protect (don't know why I don't curse)
    Archeops aerial ace toxicroak, KO

    Turn 4
    Gallade out, X-scissor
    Archeops aerial ace
    Ferrothorn orange HP
    Ferrothorn leech seed Archeops

    Turn 5,6 and 7
    Ferrothorn protects twice (lucky) 151/181 HP
    Archeops aerial ace
    Gallade X-scissor, critical hit, Ferrothorn KO
  14. Beagleman80

    Beagleman80

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Black and White
    Super Singles
    Name: Beagleman80.

    Winning Streak (128)
    All Pokemon demoted to level 50 for battle.
    Pokemon Team / Combination -
    1. Garchomp (Current level - lv 100)
    2. Slaking (Current level - lv 100)
    3. Metagross (Current level - lv 97)

    Hopefully this was put in the order / form recommended. :)

    That's my record. win record 128. + pokemon team

    When I get a log on the moves I use, I will post an edit.
  15. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    736
    Timid Politoed should have 134 Speed when it has 252 Speed EVs, which will be guaranteed to outrun Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Crobat by 1 Speed while holding a scarf. Speed is the one stat that it is really important to have a 31 IV if you are maxing it out, as the difference in a single point of speed can make or break you, as it possibly did in this case.

    As such, it might be a good idea to rebreed Politoed in order to have 31 IV Speed so you won't have to worry about Jolteon as much.
  16. pifou69

    pifou69

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    I have two politoed : one with 31 IV Speed with scald I usually use and one with 30 IV speed with HP fire. For the last run, I use the second one because I thought it may help vs abomasnow witch is very annoying (kill my rain, so HP fire may be good) and because I never use scald. Totally forgot than 1 EV speed could make the difference :naughty:
    I will try another streak with the first one, and try something else for the fourth slot. Don't know what for the moment : maybe Hyper voice which can hit both opponents
  17. PeterT

    PeterT

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    The second Staraptor Team got me absolutely nowhere. Next up: Choice Band Slaking with a Ghost- and Steeltype as backup.
  18. Tebow

    Tebow

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    I think subconsciously I went to Volcarona because I was "tired" of using that team. My initial intent was to just get a personal record rather than get a record steak.
    I been looking for a poke that can give me a similar moveset to Stoutlands, and the only one I could find was Struggle Bug/Thunderwave/Charm/Flash Illumise @ Prankster. Still searching for two defensively synergetic teammates to go with it though.
  19. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    They should finally release the Snarl TM. I want to use my Evolith Prankster Murcrow but without Snarl it can´t cripple special attackers :/

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]Murcrow @ Evolith
    Calm
    252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def
    Featherdance
    Snarl
    Taunt/Roost
    Thunderwave/Roost

    It would be so awesome...

    Edit: For Illumise: the obligatory Dragon + Steel Combo comes in mind so what about Dragonite and CurseFerro/Scizor/Hone Claws Metagross
  20. Tebow

    Tebow

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    @XYZ I have considered that too. Just trying to look for something different I guess...
    I have been thinking about Poison Heal Gloscor w/ Aerial Ace + some other coverage move (Brick Break for Fighting/Flying) so that way I can use Lefties on his partner..
  21. Mr. XYZ

    Mr. XYZ

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    If you use Gliscor you can use Suicune as a third member. It´s a beast on is own,covers Gliscors Ice and Water weakness and PP Stall can be handy.
    Or if you want something less common use Sword Dance Empoleon :D
  22. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    204
    I find that Sword Dance Empoleon is actually a good partner for Dragonite. Covers his weaknesses well, and has reasonable coverage with aqua jet/earthquake.

    Interesting idea about Illumise btw :)
  23. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Ok I know I said that I was going to try Illumise, but um... I can't seem to find my Prankster Illumise lol. I'm constantly trading stuff between my black and my white games so it probably got lost somewhere. It's probably sitting in my PC somewhere and I just can't find it. Oh well.

    Anyway, I'm trying something else. Currently at 70 wins with this (EDIT: NOW AT 105 WINS):

    Zoroark @ Life Orb

    Dark Pulse
    Flamethrower
    Grass Knot
    Memento

    Suicune @ Leftovers

    Scald
    Calm Mind
    Substitute
    Rest

    Dragonite @ Lum Berry

    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Dragon Dance
    Substitute

    Yep I'm using Zoroark again. Grass Knot is more useful than Counter, extending its coverage to water and ground types. Also, Life Orb over Focus Sash! Honestly, Focus Sash isn't needed that often thanks to Illusion disguising Zoroark as Dragonite (this discourages Fighting and Bug moves, so it isn't common for Zoroark to be OHKOed). Life Orb ensures more OHKOs and 2HKOs. Should I not be able to win, I can just use Memento to help Suicune (yay I finally stopped being lazy and got one myself) or Dragonite set up and sweep. Actually I was a bit skeptical about Memento's worth and I was considering replacing it with Focus Blast or even Nasty Plot, but it has proven to be useful so it'll stay for now.

    Suicune is the standard set that everyone runs. I wasn't impressed at first. Don't get me wrong, it's very good, but it didn't seem to gel with my team initially. As time has gone on however, it has proven its worth by stalling threatening stuff out of their PP, which is what it does best. It doesn't hit very hard and doesn't sweep as well as Dragonite (6+ Scald is actually pretty weak) but it makes up for it with bulk. Hell there have been times where I'll stall out PP and then switch to Dragonite and have it set up instead (it tends to sweep better due to the higher speed and better coverage).

    Dragonite is actually different to the one that has been used by Jumpman, Chinese Dood, myself and others probably. It's actually closer to the one I used to use on my very first subway team: Rotom-W/Scizor/Dragonite. Substitute over Fire Punch though. Basically, instead of stalling and gradually gaining boosts, this Dragonite aims to get just a couple of boosts and sweep as quickly as possible (so no Roost or Leftovers for me). Outrage has more power than Dragon Claw so I don't need to have that many boosts to sweep (usually 2 or even 1 is enough, though the more the better). Earthquake if I'm facing a steel, or something with a contact ability like Flame Body. Earthquake is also good for killing the first opponent on the team since there's no need to lock myself into Outrage if I don't need to. Lum Berry is handy for switching into obvious status moves and it also removes Outrage-induced confusion. I'm still using the standard EV spread (Adamant with 252 att/ 204 hp/other evs in either defences or speed), but I intend to change it to max speed when I get time. Dragonite is a bit sluggish with just one DD, which isn't a problem if you have paralysis support or something but it's more concerning here since I don't have a true crippler.

    Electric types have been the biggest threats so far, though it usually takes 2 electrics in a team for them to truely be dangerous (I had a close battle where Jolteon was followed by Electivire; Suicune took those Thunderpunches like a champ). Jolteon in general is a pain since it outspeeds and kills Zoroark, and obviously Suicune is screwed against it without boosts. Dragonite can OHKO it with Earthquake but it need to have Jolteon break Multiscale to do it (annoyingly, Adamant Dragonite can't outspeed Jolteon after 1 Dragon Dance even with max speed, so if Jolteon cones out when Dragonite has no boosts, I have no choice but to kill it which leaves me unboosted against the next thing that comes out).

    Having Veteran Leron throw Raikou and Double Team Brightpowder Zapdos (I hate this thing so much) at me in one battle was also shitty, but Suicune was already set up and thankfully I didn't get completely screwed by Zapdos's evasion crap (I missed once after 1 Double Team but it chose to Charge Beam that turn; the next turn it Double Teamed again but I finished it off).

    Anyway hopefully I can keep going with this.

    Also, I've been considering trying out this as a lead...

    Sawk @ Choice Scarf

    Close Combat
    Earthquake
    Rock Slide/Stone Edge
    Toxic/Taunt/Return/some other filler move

    ...but only because Sawk is one of my favourite 5th gen pokemon. It would be like when I used Emolga, except that Sawk actually has good stats and a great ability in Sturdy. Too bad its movepool is so bland, which is why Toxic and Taunt are listed with a Choice Scarf. It's not like Poison Jab would ever be useful and Payback doesn't work with Choice Scarf. Maybe I'll try it some other time.
  24. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,259
    All of my teams failed, my only comment to make on that is that I find Destiny Bond Gengar really underwhelming. I keep running through teams to no avail but I still can't be bothered to back to the unbelievably slow and boring setup teams

    BUT a new idea approaches! Considering that my Drag-Mag hyper offense team is getting slapped around the leaderboards, I have to get back on it
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,023
    Just posting to say that I'm currently at 168 wins with Zoroark/Suicune/Dragonite. I do feel a bit lucky for getting this far because there have been some really close battles where I had to rely on getting hax in my favour to win (mainly burns from Scald; Dark Pulse flinches help too), but a streak is a streak so whatever.

    So I need to win 18 more battles to match my current best, and if I manage that I'll just see how many of the people above me I can overtake. I'd like to get in the top 10, but I still need over 50 wins to get there (jeez you guys sure set the bar high).

    Of course, I could lose my next battle lol. I'll post about this this streak again when it ends.

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