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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    204
    Got to 142 wins with this gimmick team.

    Aerodactyl @Focus Sash
    Jolly - Pressure
    EVs: HP/Spe
    - Scary Face
    - Taunt
    - Roar
    - Incinerate

    Slows down the lead and gets rid of his berry, so Breloom can set up on him. Taunt and Roar are "just in case" abilities. I'm using Aerodactyl because I couldn't find a different pokemon who could have a similar moveset, and this guy is very fast, which helps.

    My Breloom and Chansey are the same as in http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4163534&postcount=1546.

    I lost to a physical Life Orbed Infernape, who caught Breloom without Sub up, and had a field day between Close Combat and Flare Blitz :P

    All I can say is.. a 150 atk STAB move from something with such huge attack (Breloom) is very, very strong. Obviously this is a little bit of rng fight, since if Breloom loses his sub and manages a KO, he must outspeed the next pokemon by himself, or pray that he's a special attacker.

    Speaking of that, Chansey cannot be killed by special attackers. It takes Focus Blasts and everything else like a boss. Maybe a Freeze hax would, but that never happened.

    I might go back to this team someday, but considering that I couldn't find anything that works great with Breloom/Chansey combo, I probably won't.
  2. RiggyRob

    RiggyRob

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    25
    I would like to lay claim to the longest Staraptor streak with 92 wins plz:

    [​IMG]
    Jolly Staraptor w/ Choice Band
    252Atk/252Spd/4Def
    155/172/85/61/70/167
    Brave Bird/Close Combat/U-Turn/Quick Attack

    [​IMG]
    Adamant Garchomp w/ Choice Scarf
    252Atk/252Spd/4Hp
    184/200/106/76/102/154
    Earthquake/Outrage/Fire Fang/Rock Slide

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Calm Suicune w/ Chesto Berry
    252Hp/252Def/4Spd
    204/85/165/109/147/93
    Scald/Substitute/Calm Mind/Rest

    Strategy's simple: lead with Staraptor to get Intimidate going and to destroy a lot of things with either Brave Bird or Close Combat. U-Turn is great for breaking Sturdy and Focus Sashes, and then I either switch to Suicune to set up or Garchomp to finish it off.

    After getting owned by Volcarona several times in a row on previous tries, I wanted the biggest 'f*** you' I could get - it's 4x weakness to Rock was tempting but Stone Edge and Rock Slide are poor moves to use in the Subway, so I decided to use my favourite Pokemon from Gen IV, Staraptor. Brave Bird is brilliant, decimating Bug, Grass, and Fighting types, and with Close Combat it takes out the Steel and Rock types as well, and it's always nice to have a bit of insurance with Garchomp's Earthquake.

    Intimidate is also a great ability for a lead Pokemon, and it helps Suicune set up with a pseudo-Defence boost - it's a life saver when it comes to Outrages from Dragons, especially as I don't have a Steel type. Quick Attack is a last resort move, but the fact it gets priority is why I don't use Double Edge (as well as the fact Double Edge is an egg move), so I can finish off frail or weakened Pokemon.

    ScarfChomp is mainly standard with Adamant nature, I just have to make sure that Jolly Haxorus doesn't get a Dragon Dance off, otherwise it's game over. Rock Slide is never used, and Fire Fang is only used on Bug/Steels and levitating Steels. I use it to switch in for free against Electric types; otherwise, it comes in as a revenge killer. Scarf Outrage outspeeds and kills all the Dragons I'm aware of, as long as they don't have a boost such as mentioned above.

    Classic Subway Suicune is classic, but unfortunately the only one I have to hand right now is a Calm natured Suicune with a very low Speed IV.

    Problems: the weak link in my team is my imperfect Suicune - with 204 HP, it misses out on being able to make four 51HP Substitutes by one point, and it gets outsped by a lot of stuff, which can make battles quite annoying.

    SPIT Starmie is as frustrating as ever, and even worse is that if it's against Staraptor, I can't tell if it will use Ice Beam or Thunderbolt, so it's necessary to switch to Suicune to take a hit first and then switch to Garchomp. After all that, it isn't even guaranteed that Outrage will OHKO it, so I have to finish it off with Quick Attack.

    Water Absorbers are a nightmare, simply because they take so long to deal with, especially Acid Armor Vaporeon, as it can outstall Suicune. Other problems are mainly when one Pokemon has already fainted - Volcarona beats Suicune with Quiver Dance and Garchomp if it's locked into the wrong move, Electric types outspeed Staraptor and Suicune and can smash them with super effective attacks, and anything with Ice attacks make short work of Garchomp and Staraptor.

    I only got this far with a bit of luck; I had a close call with a Volcarona where Staraptor had already fainted and Garchomp was locked into Outrage - Suicune managed to take a +2 Bug Buzz and finish it off with Scald.

    I lost to an annoying misplay - initial matchup, Staraptor vs Charizard;

    Turn 1 - Switched to Suicune, Charizard used Belly Drum.
    Turn 2 - Charizard Earthquake, Suicune Sub, Suicune @ 20/204 HP,
    Turn 3 - Charizard Earthquake, broke sub, Suicune ChestoRest
    Turn 4 - Switched Staraptor back in for free as Charizard used Earthquake
    Turn 5 - Used Quick Attack, bringing it to ~25% HP and activating Salac Berry, Charizard KOs with Fire Punch, Suicune back in
    Turn 6 - Charizard Earthquake, critical hit KO, Garchomp in,
    Turn 7 - Garchomp KO with Outrage, Excadrill in,
    Turn 8 - Garchomp Outrage, Excadrill ~40% HP, Excadrill Rock Slide
    Turn 9 - Garchomp KO, confusion, (hoping for a frail Pokemon without Focus Sash or Sturdy), Lucario in (¬_¬)
    Turn 10 - Garchomp hit self in confusion, Lucario KO with Shadow Ball.

    I didn't know how to deal with the Charizard - it has the same base speed as Staraptor, so to avoid a speed tie I switched to Suicune, but then it used Belly Drum instead of the Fire attack I was expecting. I should've used Scald here, but Rest wasn't the game changing decision. I got Staraptor back in for free, but I was worried about the speed tie again, so I used Quick Attack, which activated the Salac berry - still, even though it KO'd Staraptor, it wasn't game over. I was officially screwed when Charizard KO'd Suicune with a critical hit as I picked Scald, meaning Garchomp had to take on 3 Pokemon while locked into one move, and it almost managed it too.

    Ah well - I reckon, playing with more experience/concentration and/or a better Suicune, this streak could get a good deal longer. Proof: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3696/20121p.jpg
  3. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    RiggyRob I´d say you faced a Battle Girl or Black Belt just from seeing charizard-excadrill-lucario, which means that you should have known the charizard set from the start (set 4).

    CB Brave Bird does 178 min damage against that Zard (it has 174 HP)...also, you should have Scalded for the KO with Cune when you switched (yours does 55% min), Substitute was too risky, plus against Battle Girl and Black Belt with their Fire, Fighting and Steel Types set 4, you should be pretty safe with a healthy Raptor and ScarfChomp.

    OK, there´s no reason to be scared of Charizard leads, at all:

    Charizard 1 Salac Berry 174 114 98 116 126 141 Dragon Claw Flame Charge Belly Drum Substitute
    Charizard 2 Charti Berry 153 149 98 116 105 152 Dragon Claw Shadow Claw Rock Slide Dragon Dance
    Charizard 3 Choice Scarf 153 125 88 165 105 211* Heat Wave Rock Slide Air Slash Crunch
    Charizard 4 Salac Berry 174 137 98 116 105 141 Belly Drum Substitute Fire Punch Earthquake

    Raptor outspeeds and OHKOs set 1, 2 and 4 with Brave Bird, the Scarf set 3 is Cune set up bait, it would either Slide or Heat Wave.

    Still, nice to see Raptor being used to get a record.
  4. Pikiwyn

    Pikiwyn

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    Battle Subway Super Double Record: 234

    Carvanha @ Focus Sash
    Speed Boost, Hasty
    0/31/0/x/0/31
    252 Att, 252 Spe
    Stats: 105, 142, 22, x, 25, 128
    ~Protect
    ~Substitute
    ~Dive
    ~Crunch

    Entei @ Chioce Specs
    Pressure, Timid
    252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    31/x/31/30/30/31
    Stats: 191, x, 105, 141, 94, 167
    ~Eruption
    ~Flamethrower
    ~HP Ground
    ~Extrasensory

    The strategy is pretty simple, it abuses the AI’s ‘always go for an OHKO’ rule. Carvanha is OHKOd by almost anything while Entei is by almost nothing (only Hydro Pump and Stone Edge were ever aimed at Entei). So opponents will almost always target Carvanha, which on the first turn is like Carvanha being able to use Follow Me and Protect at the same time, while Entei attacks with an insanely powerful Eruption. On the second turn Carvanha will outspeed anything with a base speed under 125, so I can Dive to avoid attacks for another turn. Substitute breaks Focus Sash so I usually only use it on sandstorm and hail teams, or if the opponent has only one Pokémon left. Dive and Crunch are actually really damaging and have great coverage for Entei’s threats: Fire, Rock and Trick Room. Entei was chosen over Typhlosion because the bulk to survive more moves was more important than a bit more damage, he outspeeds and OHKOs most things that don’t resist Eruption. Other than Eruption his moves are very situational. Flamethrower for when his HP gets low, I used HP Ground only when both opponents had Flash Fire and against Heatran sometimes. Extrasensory I used in one battle but I can’t even remember what for.

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Levitate, Timid
    4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    31/x/31/31/31/31
    Stats: 156, x, 100, 182, 130, 178
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Psyshock
    ~Ice Beam

    Probably the best and most reliable Pokémon in the subway, easily switches in on and KOs Water and Ground types that threaten Entei, and doesn’t care to switch in on Flash Fire activated Pokémon except for Chandelure which Carvanha can take care of. Water-Ground types are annoying but I can manage.


    Scrafty @ Sitrus Berry
    Moxie, Adamant
    252 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def
    31/31/31/x/31/31
    Stats: 172, 156, 136, x, 135, 78
    ~Fake Out
    ~Drain Punch
    ~Payback
    ~Rock Slide

    Switches in on Rock Slides and Stone Edge, kills Tyranitar before it can kill me, and can still survive under Trick Room. Moxie is awesome and Scrafty saved me a bunch of times.

    Normally it takes two difficult to deal with Pokémon to become a problem, but other than that the biggest threats were:
    Trick room: is used by Psychic and Ghost types, that sometimes can’t kill Carvanha and decide to Trick Room instead of attacking. Crunch with Eruption is usually enough to KO them but not always. If not then I have to try and stall it out. A funny battle was one where the opponent set up Trick Room and by the time it wore off the opponent still had the Bronzong that set it up out, if the Bronzong set up TR again that turn I would lose. And that turn Bronzong used TR and straight afterwards the opponents Slowbro used TR too and I could win.
    Terrakion: Stone Edge KOs Entei and does a lot of damage to Latios and I can’t switch Scrafty in because Terrakion can outspeed and KO with Sacred Sword or Close Combat. Latios can outspeed and KO with Psyshock though.
    Regigigas: Survives anything and uses Double Team and Wide Guard.

    How I lost:
    Opponent starts with Landorus and Terrakion:
    Turn 1: I switch Entei for Latios, Carvanha Protect, Terrakion Stone Edge on Latios, Landorus Rock slide, Latios to 9 HP
    Turn 2: Carvanha Dive (on Terrakions position), Latios Kos with Psyshock and faints from Life Orb.
    Turn 3: Sent out Scrafty, opponent Tornadus. Fake Out and Dive on Tornadus, Landorus uses Ground Gem Earthquake.
    Turn 4:Dive, Tornadus Kos Scrafty with Focus Blast, Landorus Earthquake.

    Carvanha couldn’t KO Landorus and Entei couldn’t outspeed before Earthquake. If I had targeted Landorus with the first Dive, and I don’t know why I didn’t, I probably would have won since Entei outsped Tornadus.

    Anyway I spent months theorymoning and testing this team so I’m glad it got this far.
  5. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Hey cool idea. I think I may have thought about something similar at some point but I was a bit concerned about the "bait" pokemon being dead weight beyond protecting. I guess Carvanha is a special case though, thanks to Speed Boost and Dive (and the fact that its attack stat isn't shit).

    Seriously how do you come up with this stuff? First it was Switcheroo Full Incense Whimsicott with Butterfree and now this...

    Just wondering but have you thought about just using Sharpedo instead? Sharpedo still have shitty, attack-attracting defences but also has higher power and speed. Unless Carvanha's lower defences are more important?
  6. Pikiwyn

    Pikiwyn

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    I did think about Sharpedo but never actually tried it, my problem was that it will survive resisted moves which might be redirected at Entei (which sucks for Eruption), on average Sharpedo’s defences and HP are 2,24 times higher than Carvanha. But then again every one of Sharpedo’s resistances is resisted by one of my other Pokémon, so it would be an easy switch-in. The real reason I didn’t try Sharpedo was probably that I also tried Pikachu (Helping Hand, Fake Out, Dig, Protect) and Smeargle (Fake Out, Spore, Helping Hand, Protect), both have about the same or lower defences but both were complete fails (while Pichu did really well). I guess I prefer not having to switch Entei out very often but I’ll definitely try Sharpedo sometime, now that I think of how great its speed and attack are.

    As for how I come up with it, I’d rather have a team with an unused idea that does averagely than use a common idea that does great. I guess I just think outside of the box :D
  7. Roamer

    Roamer

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    hey pikiwyn, how many problems did you have with the massive amount of faster threats?

    i always think it´s wasted potential to have the heavy hitters on the front because you could setup tailwind or sunny day with a latias (or your latios) which opens your possibilities of lure-pokemon quite a bit(speedwise). with its bulk it might even survive the hit and return later to healingwish your entei back to full health.

    i also wonder why you had bad results with smeargle?
    for now i can only theorymon, because i don´t have the cash to buy each n every game, but a set of smeargle@focussash timid max hp/ speed and spore/ protect/ transform/ whatever you need (shadowforce, teeterdance, darkvoid or something like that) could be quite good under tailwind as it outspeeds every subway pokemon. with transform you can even do something with it after putting your opponents to sleep and you might as a last resort strategy even transform into a doubleteaming foe or your own sweeper...

    also wanted to reply to m e e p´s team:
    i think you don´t use the full potential of your crippling duo. whimsicott is completely blocked by clear body pokemon and shuckle might need some luck to get around them. so changing the positions between them might be a first suggestion. now shuckle halves the damage output of every foe and should utilize lum berry (always the best for it in the subway from what i´ve read).
    stealth rock, knock off, rest and some other utility moves are also a bit better than the now 3-turn lasting encore and in some respects even better than struggle bug.

    whimsicott could then give you much better support, being now nearly twice as bulky, as even critical hits should get lower in power after powersplit. you can then play to its strenghts by abusing leechseed recovery for it and its teammates, maybe even stall some problematic pokemon with prankster-enhanced substitute while also flashing the now possibly item- and ability-less foes into oblivion, which would now make leftovers the better item for it but currently your scrafty is holding it. so what to do about it?

    your scrafty needs more bulk as it is your only option of killing the opponent apart from stalling your opponent with your cripplers (although now they would be able to do it, compared to your sets).
    if you have crippled the opponents lead you should have and take the time to set up to at least +4, which makes moxie the worse ability and frees the slot for shed skin! the only threatening combination would now be a heavy blow while scrafty needs to sub/dance up the first times (e.g. your cripplers could not end their jobs because of unfortunate happenings) and here is where i think a sitrus berry might be better than leftovers, as it allows for substitute to never fail! he can heal back with drain punch anyway and leftovers will not save him in most cases, as it should really only take like 2-4 hits in the whole match. i would also recommend feint attack over crunch incase your opponent double teams up.

    conclusion:
    shuckle@lumberry 252 hp/ rest in defenses:powersplit/gastroacid/knock off/stealthrock or strugglebug over some of these moves
    whimsicott@leftovers 252 hp/ 252 somewhere else:taunt/substitute/leechseed/flash ...or memento over any of the last three
    scrafty@sitrusberry adamant 252 hp/192 att/ 64 spe: dragondance/ sub/ drainpunch/ faintattack

    you could also try thundurus over whimsicott and give it sub/ torment/ thunderbolt or voltswitch or discharge/ hiddenpower ice or ground which would make your team faster and more flexible... also attracting the low pp rock moves is fun if you can stall them out ;)

    has anyone tried the effectiveness of torment yet? with the lower viability of choice-trick and encore in the subway it might get some nice results as the effect stays until the opponent switches. this could even allow setup on the cruel choiceband/specs pokemon that might plow through your cripplers otherwise...
    have some other ideas as well but i have the strange feeling this post gets a bit too long, hmmmm...
  8. Pikiwyn

    Pikiwyn

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    To be honest, other than 130 base speed Pokémon (and even then only spread move Pokemon like aerodactyl were problematic) I had no problem with faster Pokémon, and since almost nothing targets Entei I find it kind of pointless to use the first turn setting up when I could be KOing the opponents. I tried 3 times with Smeargle before I got fed up. First time: Froslass outspeeds and freezes Entei with Blizzard, 2nd time, again Froslass outspeeds and freezes Entei, and third time Tyranitar owns me, can’t remember exactly how. Note that all these tries lasted under 21, and I didn’t even want to try again after that.

    For the Smeargle you suggested, that could work but that’s against the strategy that I have used, compared to Carvanha, Smeargle has really good defenses (can’t even believe I just said Smeargle has good defenses...) and another problem was that a lot of Pokémon outsped Smeargle which really took a knock at my team. Under Tailwind Smeargle would outespeed anything so that opens up a lot of opportunities that I don’t have time to test atm, so whoever wants to try that you’re welcome to have a shot
  9. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    Only got 77 on super singles but at least it will be posted.here's the team-
    Super Singles-77
    Terrakion@focus sash
    jolly
    IVs-flawless
    EVs-252 atk 252 spd 6 HP
    Swords Dance
    Earthquake
    Close Combat
    Rock Slide

    Ferrothorn@leftovers
    Sassy
    IVs-flawless
    EVs-252 HP 252 spDef 6 atk
    Curse
    Gyro ball
    Leech seed
    Substitute

    Gyarados@chesto berry
    Careful
    IVs-flawless
    EVs-dont remember
    Dragon Dance
    Earthquake
    Waterfall
    Rest

    I tried it out as i didnt have access to 4th gen.the main idea is to start a sweep by setting up terrakion with SD and switch too ferrothorn when necessary.Ferro is awesome.Gyarados is there for ferrothorn's coverage.Rest and chesto is there cause i was worried about status problems.Terrakion alone finished of lot of teams.Bulky water leads became ideal set up material for ferrothorn.I lost mainly to finish things quick.here is how it was
    1.AI sends out garchomp.I thought to set up with SD but it was a scarfchomp that reduced the HP of my terrakion with EQ to 1.
    2.switch to gyarados to pull of an intimidate .
    3.AI switches to dugtrio and i switch to ferrothorn.
    4.it turned out to be a CB dugtrio.it EQed as try to set up ferro.
    5.EQ delt too much damage so i purposely let ferro faint.
    6.pulled of a DD with gyara and AI switch to chomp.
    7.got a waterfall before getting KO ed by outrage.
    8.then terra comes in and gets KO ed.
    I should have realised it was scarf chomp so i could have pulled of a DD with gyarados and possibly outsped and KO ed dugtrio.
    I hope to post a better streak once i get an AR or 4th gen pokes.
  10. Tombstoner

    Tombstoner

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    659
    Not going for another streak for a while but felt like being on the list. Got 157 in the SS tower with Latias, Mawile, and Scizor. I'll give more details if necessary, but I consider myself trusted on here.
  11. Tomaius

    Tomaius

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    62
    How do you guys get your pokemon? Do you breed them by hand or do you use legal hacks?

    I've been legit breeding for ages now and I find that the hour or so it takes to plan out a 3 man team is usually followed by about 2-3 weeks of breeding and EV training. Potentially a lot longer if I intend to use a legendary. Most irritatingly, since Christmas I've been using the Dream World to finally get a hold of a damn Marvel Scale Dratini and only the other day did I finally breed one that was near flawless. I admit that I'm not playing constantly, but whats the method you use to get your pokemon?
  12. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    You can do reasonably well with straight breeding, but in 5th gen, the RNG is really very simple, so RNGing is a better choice, and completely legit. There's some helpful links on the wifi page which walk you through the RNG process. I always found RNG a little daunting in earlier generations, but it is much, much easier this time around, so is well worth learning.
  13. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Either is acceptable as long as everything ends up being completely legal and can be proved as such. Legal hacks aren't allowed if they use something unreleased like Contrary Serperior or something conflicting like Dragon Dance Moxie Salamence with Outrage or items like Salac Berry
  14. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I didn't think legal hacks were allowed at all, though it isn't exactly easy to prove unless the hacker admits it (or makes a mistake). Meh whatever...

    I took a couple of days break after my futile attempts at Multi (I made 2 more attempts and ended up losing both times during my 2nd set of 7 to more ice hax). I've gone back to my trusty Trick Room team.

    I'm still using Scrafty, Beheeyem and Metagross. I gave Scrafty Protect over an elemental punch and it has been sooooo much better. I don't have to fear fighting-type leads so much anymore. I'm not sure why I never used it in the first place. I tried Choice Band on Metagross but I hated being locked in. I'll probably go back to Steel Gem.

    I'm still using Thunderbolt Beheeyem (rather than HP Fire). This leaves me with no fire moves so I'll need a fire move on my last pokemon (to stop Escavalier from being a pain). I wanted to try something different so I tried this:

    [​IMG]

    Heatmor @ Fire Gem
    Flamethrower
    Heat Wave
    Sucker Punch
    Protect

    I think I selected it out of pity! It isn't exactly great competitively, and it is even useless for in-game teams since it is the last pokemon you'll encounter before the league besides Terrakion. I waanted to give it a chance to shine!

    To be fair it was ok and it did its job of providing a powerful fire attack. Unfortunately it was kinda useless outside of that (if the opposition resisted fire Hetamor ended up as dead weight). Sucker Punch was too weak to be of any use. It might be better if it had a wider special movepool beyond its fire attacks, Focus Blast and Hidden Power. Another problem I found was the ground weakness it shares with Metagross which is bad against Earthquake spammers. I'm not expecting to get far with this Heatmor on my team, unless I replace Metagross (maybe with Extremespeed Dragonite). Oh well I tried.

    So yeah I'll probably just use Eelektross or Honchkrow or something. I like Honchkrow since it has Sucker Punch, though Eelektross is bulkier and 'faster' in Trick Room.
  15. Wishy

    Wishy

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    Eelektross also has access to Flamethrower
  16. SimicCombine

    SimicCombine

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    Is there a huge advantage running mono-attacking Chesto-Rest Suicune with Substitute over CM Suicune with lefties and Ice Beam? Scald and Rest means that Suicune doesn't really care about status, and Ice Beam allows Suicune to use several Pokemon that otherwise wall it (like Acid Armor Vaporeon) as set-up bait.
  17. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

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    Mar 11, 2010
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    Yes; the advantage is Substitute. A fully set-up Suicune pretty much doesn't care about Electric-types with Sub, because it gets a free hit in (two, if it's faster), and if the Electric-type doesn't have the power to break the Sub, Suicune can fully stall them out. In contrast, without Sub, Suicune risks dying to a crit or a OHKO move (particularly of the Quick Claw variety). Notably, Suicune can stall out most Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon (the exceptions being ones with set-up moves, which includes two Poliwrath, two Gastrodon one of which can probably be stalled out anyway because its only attacking move is Waterfall and it has no Attack EVs, one Quagsire, Block/Perish Song Lapras). You'll notice that most of those Pokemon are terrible and are either easily outsped and OHKO'd by other Pokemon or, in the case of Lapras, are die before they can do anything. So for most Water Absorb Pokemon (e.g. Vaporeon) it doesn't even matter that they can stall out Suicune, because Suicune can usually outstall them, or it can just PP stall their attacking moves and allow something else to switch in and set up.

    In contrast, almost everything fears OHKO moves and crits. So while its easy to provide team support that can beat Sub/ChestoRest Suicune's counters, it harder to find Pokemon that can exploit the Pokemon Ice Beam Suicune has problems with.
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Oh yeah I know that, that's why I suggested it as an alternative to Heatmor (as well as Honchkrow with Heat Wave).

    Doesn't matter now since I'm using Honchkrow (out of sheer convenience). I'll probably give Eelektross a go if that doesn't work out though.

    I'm currently at 49 wins so hopefully I can keep this going. I'm starting to get annoyed by the number of Intimidate leads I've faced though. Seriously, that Arcanine... I've faced it as a lead 7 times now and 6 of those it just happened to be Intimidate (the other time it was paired with a bloody Gyarados anyway).
  19. SimicCombine

    SimicCombine

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    Messages:
    120
    I'm really starting to hate Gentleman Camus. Same guy ruined both my moderately long streaks, this time at 62. This time, first he sends in Landorus against my Scarf Darmanitan. It's quite likely sash'd or scarfed (50/50 chance that it's scarfed,) so I Flare Blitz, hoping either for the KO or breaking sash so Suicune can finish it off. It's scarfed, so Darmanitan's dead. In comes Suicune, ready to 1hko with Ice Beam. But first, EQ crits. Then he sends out Regice. I get the free switch to Garchomp, SD up while surviving an Ice Beam thanks to Yache berry, then 1HKO with Outrage. Final Pokemon is Articuno. I have a 3/4 chance that it isn't Articuno 2, and I just win. It is. It KOs Chomp with Ice Shard (Chomp would've outsped and 1HKO'd all the others). And as a final f*** you, it uses Ice Beam after the first Mind Reader, giving me a glimmer of hope (Lefties recovery means that it does essentially zero damage.) Then it Sheer Colds, and I'm dead.

    I really hate that guy.
  20. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Oof just lost at 72 wins. Not even sure why I'm bothering to write this up, since it's similar to my other Trick Room teams and the streak is the shortest of the lot, but I have free time so what the hell?

    [​IMG]

    Scrafty @ Life Orb
    Brave
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
    EVs: 252/252/4/0/0/0
    Stats: 172/156/136/62/135/56
    Moxie

    Drain Punch
    Crunch
    Fire Punch
    Fake Out

    [​IMG]

    Beheeyem @ Focus Sash
    Quiet
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 244/0/12/252/0/0
    Stats: 181/93/97/194/115/40
    Telepathy

    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Ally Switch
    Trick Room

    [​IMG]

    Metagross @ Steel Gem
    Brave
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
    EVs: 252/252/0/0/4/0
    Stats: 187/205/150/112/111/67
    Clear Body

    Iron Head
    Earthquake
    Ice Punch
    Bullet Punch

    [​IMG]

    Honchkrow @ Expert Belt
    Brave
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    EVs: 6/252/0/252/0/0
    Stats: 176/194/72/157/72/68
    Super Luck

    Brave Bird
    Sucker Punch
    Superpower
    Heat Wave

    Basically the same. As I said before Protect on Scrafty is better than any of the elemental punches and it saved me a few times. I also don't care so much about Medicham and Mienshao leads anymore (Protect turn 1 to cause them to harm themselves with Hi Jump Kick, and then revenge them the next turn by outspeeding in Trick Room) and its better than Fake Out for things like Inner Focus Lucario and Sawk.

    The only 'new' thing is Honchkrow but I've used it before on other teams. Having the 2nd most powerful priority move in the game on my team is awesome. Protect would be good to have somewhere (maybe over Superpower, I don't use it much) but having such wide coverage is great and allows me to abuse Expert Belt well.

    Lost to a parasol lady. Can't remember the whole battle but there were 2 key moments that decided my fate. The first was when I tried to Sucker Punch Scarf Manectric because I thought it was going to try an electric attack on Honchkrow. Instead it used Switcheroo. I swear I've had this happen to me before so I'll call it a misplay (I swear that pokemon with Trick/Switcheroo tend to prioritise item-swapping over killing outright). The other game decider was when Weezing decided to hit Scrafty with Sludge Bomb instead of Thunder on Honchkrow, which of course poisoned me (it must have predicted this). I died to the poison damage on the same turn. In the end I had to try and kill Fire Blast Weezing and Overheat Manectric with just my Metagross. Not happening.

    Anyway I'm wondering how Scrafty could go on a Tailwind team. Moxie is just insane and Scrafty is hard to stop with just 1 boost...
  21. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    204
    Durant :)

    I'm trying a rain team at the moment. I'm surprised at how effective Politoed is at... sweeping. Unboosted Surf under the rain is surprisingly deadly, 2KOing pretty much anything that doesn't resist it. He also craps on dragons with Ice Beam, outspeeding them easily (I scarfed him). I'm having a bit of an issue with a rain sweeper at the moment, both Ludicolo and Kingdra feel very underpowered to me - they miss out on a lot of OHKOs even with Life Orb. So I'm trying Thundurus instead - he's extremely frail and dies to farts, but 100% accurate Life Orb boosted STAB Thunder from his superb SPA craps on anything not resistant to it.

    When I think about it, it's probably strange that I don't even have a Swift Swimmer in this team.. (my third poke is my old Ferro)
  22. Az_UK

    Az_UK

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    Hi all, after lots of perseverance, trial and error, I was able to score 204 wins in battle tower Super Single Line.

    I'll do my best to include all details in standard format:

    My team:

    Dusclops @Eviolite
    Nature: Calm
    Ability: Pressure

    IVs: 4/31/31/31/31/31
    EVs :212/0/46/0/252/0
    Stats: 128/72/155/76/200/31

    Moves: Protect, Curse, Will-o-wisp, Pain split

    Volcarona @Focus Sash

    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Flamebody

    IVs: 31/28/22/31/22/31
    EVs: 0/0/0/252/0/252
    Stats:160/71/81/205/121/148

    Moves: Psychic, Quiver Dance, Heat Wave, Bug Buzz

    Dragonite @Leftovers

    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Multiscale

    IVs 0/31/31/0/31/10 (I got over the fact after so many hours of resets I ended up with 0 IV in HP,)

    EVs: 200/252/40/0/12/6

    Moves: Dragon Dance, Substitute, Dragon Claw, Roost

    Personal thoughts

    After reading through most of the subway records and strategies, I had a thought that maybe I could try gaining a long enough streak with an uncommon pokemon, something that wasn't popular but can be of good use in a team. That pokemon was Dusclops, after reading about the eviolite benefits, I thought I'd give it a shot, and boy can this guy take hits.
    I would have survived a bit longer had it not been for the terrible HP IV, nonetheless I'll tweak and improve on it and see how far I can take with it (same goes with my IV HPless dragonite lol)

    Strategy
    I'll try and be brief but clear in detail.
    Dusclops is my leading pokemon, pain split is my source of recovery and is very useful if the opponent starts with a poke (blissey, wailord eg) that is abundant in HP, I use that to deal damage and recover some HP if they choose to attack me first.
    Protect is there for a brief stall after a successful will-o-wisp, half the time I attempt for 2x protects in a row, especially if the opponent is low on health
    Curse is a move I really love, I tend to use this if I have more than half HP and that I am confident Dusclops will survive to use it (and faint), that way I know at least when I switch in to my next poke, volcarona for example, I can sweep the remainder of the opponents HP. Few problems with the lead would be paralysis, if luck is not on my side, Dusclops can remain paralysed and faint (thankfully I took my chances and overcame the situation most of the time).
    Overall to use Dusclops effectively in the battle subway, along with good stats, you must predict well on what your opponent will do, sometimes it may not hurt to switch out and reserve him for another match-up whilst you sweep the current opponent's pokemon.

    Volacarona- I preferred modest over timid nature, mainly because I like put more emphasis on full power for my team, nonetheless I'll be sure to experiment with timid when I get the time. Volcarona tends to 1HKO/2HKO the opponents pokes after 1 Quiver dance boost (with a few exceptions of course, such as high HP+spdef blissey that can soak in the hits). One of the problems I had were either faster pokes who take my volcarona down easily (rock slide terrakion, or those with stone edge, garchomp iirc etc) to 1hp, I setup a Quiver dance, and then the "Quick attack" factor occurs(looks at archeops)

    Dragonite- Fairly straight forward. Setup a substitue, either roost or ddance depending on HP level and if you know your sub will either break or remain, and Dragon claw them afterwards.

    In the end, lost to a Hiker Jorge, I'll add a description later on today on my losses, but for those keen, see my battle video number below it was so close as well, had I known that Quagsire would use curse when he got sent out, I would have used pain split first...ugh...
    Battle Video no: 56-38280-76521

    Here's proof of my streak

    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5396/battlesubwaysupersingle.jpg
    http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5396/battlesubwaysupersingle.jpg


    AZ
  23. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    204
    Lost after 165 wins :( But I still think this team did pretty damn well!

    Drizzlefrog @Choice Scarf
    Modest - Drizzle
    EVs: SpA/Spe
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power Grass

    Like I said before, surprisingly good sweeper. Able to 2HKO pretty much anything. Bane of anything weak to water. I use Surf or Ice Beam 99% of the time, the other moves are just rarely used fillers (Psychic for Toxicroak, HP Grass for water/ground types).

    Ferrothorn @Leftovers
    Sassy - Iron Barbs
    EVs: HP/SpD
    - Curse
    - Substitute
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    Eats eletric types effortlessly, doesn't die to non-STAB fire moves thanks to rain, hard counters all water types hoping to abuse my rain. Also dispatches Dragons. It's the same Ferro I used a while back in another streak.

    Thundurus @Life Orb
    Timid - Prankster
    EVs: SpA/Spe
    - Thunder
    - Nasty Plot
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power Ice
    I said what I wanted to about him in one of my previous posts. If he actually manages to get on the field without dying, he can destroy teams all by himself. Nasty Plot was rarely used, but if I managed to get it in and Thundurus did not die.. nothing could survive.

    How I lost:
    vs Ranger Smokey

    Turn 1:
    I send Politoed, he sends Forretress. Drizzle activates.
    I switch to Thundurus, hoping to set up. He eats a weak Bug Bite.

    Turn 2:
    Thundurus Nasty Plot.
    Forretress EXPLOSION!
    Thundurus KO.

    I send Politoed, he sends Meganium.

    Turn 3:
    Politoed used Ice Beam. Meganium down to 40%.
    Meganium used Light Screen.

    Turn 4:
    Politoed used Ice Beam. Meganium down to red hp.
    Meganium used Seed Bomb. Politoed KO.

    I send out Ferrothorn.

    Turn 5:
    Meganium used Earthquake. Ferrothorn down to 80% after Lefties.
    Ferrothorn used Curse.

    Turn 6:
    Meganium used Earthquake. Ferrothorn down to 70% after Lefties.
    Ferrothorn used Curse.

    Turn 7:
    Meganium used Earthquake. Ferro lost like 10 hp..
    Ferrothorn used Gyro Ball. Meganium KO.

    Opponent sends out Slowking.

    Turn 8:
    Slowking used Focus Blast. Ferro dead.

    Obviously I could've done a few things differently, but well, not knowing what kind of pokes my opponent has makes predicting tough sometimes.

    My next plan is sun team. I just need to get a Droughtales from somewhere :P
  24. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Updated the list.

    Post any mistakes related to the records/rankings in this topic, thanks.

    Keep up the good work everyone.

    Good luck.
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Thanks again for your hard work Peterko (by the way have you noticed that you keep spelling "Zoroark" wrong in the links to my teams? :p).

    I haven't really felt inspired to build teams lately, but I did try out Multi again, but with the in-game partner instead of just me and 2 DSs. I managed to defeat the subway masters with my Choice Scarf + Sturdy Sawk backed up by Metagross...

    ...only to lose at battle 50! Hilda ended up picking Petaya Berry Accelgor as her lead which sucks because she is completely incapable of switching out apropriately (honestly pure attacking Accelgor SHOULD hold Focus Sash, not Petaya Berry). Her back-up was Klutz Lum Berry Golurk which isn't terrible but it could have been better. I guess I was bound to have to deal with terrible partner pokemon eventually though. Up to that point the selections had been ok. She used good things like Braviary and Conkeldurr, but would sometimes use crap like Lax Incense Beartic and Giga Impact Vanilluxe (actually pretty much all the unova ise types are bad though thankfully I never got Cryogonal).

    The battle itself was difficult because the opponents used Focus Sash Rhyperior, Conkeldurr AND Hippowdon (among the most physically bulky pokemon in the game which is not good for my physical team). Their 4th was a Wailord which smacked Metagross around with Hydro Pump.

    Still, I'm actually starting to like Multi with the in-game partner. I think it's comparable to the 4th gen Battle Factory in that it can be both fun and fustrating at the same time. It's kind of nice to have different partners for each streak since it keeps things fresh and stops things getting boring. I might have a few more tries, though I think I'll need to put more thought into a back-up to Sawk (I kinda just slapped Metagross on the team since it resisted Sawk's weaknesses, but a special attacker would be nice).

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