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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Dark Arceus

    Dark Arceus

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    Haven't done the subway in a while but god that list looks amazing. I may try the team out myself if I get some spare time (With team modifications if I don't wanna just use the same 3 pokes each time)

    Edit: Out of curiosity how long did it take to make the whole list?
  2. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    @Peterko, Hmmm, that's actually a lot of investment to take out of attack to kill Magnezone, probably not worth it, I don't know...

    EDIT: It's not even possible to 2HKO sets 234 with a neutral nature in sp. att haha

    Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to suggest that taking a point out of speed for 1 point in sp att is a good idea, it's just what I did. At the time, I... wasn't a very good player back then (well I was worse than I am now anyway lol). Basically I was only thinking about the minimum speed required to outspeed the fastest thing that Cloyster can outrun at 2+: Scarf Terrakion. I didn't really think about speed BEFORE the smash. I had never used Cloyster before so I had no idea whether not speed-tying the stuff at 122 was a bad thing or not. However, I agree that taking 1 point away for 1 point in sp att is silly given it makes essentially no difference to Surfs damage output. May as well just max it out!

    EDIT2: This doesn't have much to do with anything, but yay I managed to RNG this in Emerald: Registeel, Careful, 30/31/30/24/29/13. Not exactly flawless but good enough! Not sure whether I'll actually use it for subway though.
  3. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Three parts, three days, each around 2-3 hours.

    Because there´s no people posting about their streaks, here´s mine:

    Cloyster-Garchomp-Suicune v2 (open)
    [size=-2]
    --------------------------------------------
    Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
    #15-21 = 6-0-1-0 (1-3-3-3-3-3-3)
    #22-28 = 5-2-0-0
    #29-35 = 6-1-0-0
    #36-42 = 4-3-0-0
    #43-49 = 3-4-0-0 (2-2-2-2-3-3-3)
    #50-56 = 3-4-0-0 (3-2-2-3-2-2-3)
    #57-63 = 5-2-0-0 (2-2-3-3-3-3-3)
    #64-70 = 5-2-0-0 (3-2-3-3-3-3-2)
    #71-77 = 5-2-0-0 (3-2-3-2-3-3-3)
    #78-84 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-2)
    #85-91 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-2-3-3-3-3)
    #92-98 = 7-0-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-3)
    #99-105 = 4-3-0-0 (3-3-2-3-3-2-2)
    #106-112 = 4-3-0-0 (3-2-3-2-2-3-3)
    #113-119 = 5-2-0-0 (2-2-3-3-3-3-3)
    #120-126 = 4-2-1-0 (3-2-3-1-3-2-3) worst set so far, bad decisions and too many stallwars
    #127-133 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-2-2-1)
    #134-140 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-3-2-3-3-3)
    #141-147 = 7-0-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-3)
    #148-154 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-1-2-2)
    #155-161 = 5-2-0-0 (3-3-2-2-3-3-3)
    #162-168 = 4-3-0-0 (3-2-2-2-3-3-3) Ludicolo 3 is soo annoying
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    154 battles:
    3-0 x 108 = 70.1%
    2-0 x 42 = 27.3%
    1-0 x 4 = 2.6%
    0-0 x 0 = 0%
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Battles/notes:
    - #72 misplayed a burned Hariyama3 Thick Fat situation and almost lost to SunnyBeam Vicy3 which survived a Scald after Quake did >90%, but Scald burned and the burn KOed (Chomp was KOed by CC from Hariyama plus SolarBeam, Cloy was at 1HP when Hariyama came out)
    - #119 Tyranitar4 decided to dick around with some CHs and Dragon Tailing to reset the sleep counter on Cune (this is an awful mechanics) which couldn´t set up, only 1CM naked on Struggle, second Poké Jolt Quaked away, third Honch Speared
    - #121 set up only 3 CMs against Meta 4 (misplayed – didn´t PP waste MM only QUake) which beat Cloy before that and second Poké Cham4 survived the Scald after LO dmg and broke Sub – Cune was at 136 HP, dmg calc. said HJK = 129-153, but Cham used Detect -> lefties to 148, survived HJK and LO dmg KOed, last Poké Chande got Scalded
    - #123 Conk4 Superpower-Spear, switch to Chomp-Mach, finished off with Quake = mistake, should have set up Cune instead like I always do. Second Poké Leafeon QC CH Leaf Blade KO, Cloy Spear KOed Leafeon but last Poké was Gengar4 ... ... ...

    Gengar 4 Lum Berry 135 76 80 182 95 178 Sludge Bomb Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond

    Bolt vs +1 = 66-78

    Cune at 113 HP minus 66-78 + Lefties = 47-59 HP

    Bolt vs +2 = 50-60 dmg

    If Bolt does <76 dmg per hit, Cune can PP stall it

    Bolt 2, 39/205, Rest
    Bolt 3, 135/205, fast asleep, 147/205
    Bolt 4, 77/205, fast asleep, 89/205
    Bolt 5, 15/205, woke up, Rest
    Bolt 6, 139/205, fast asleep, 151/205
    Bolt 7, 83/205, fast asleep, 95/205

    Sludge Bomb does 46-55
    Shadow Ball does 42-49

    Destiny Bond, woke up, Rest
    Sludge Bomb, 153/205, fast asleep, 165/205
    Destiny Bond, fast asleep
    Sludge Bomb, woke up, Scald
    Sludge Bomb, poisoned, Sub, 25/205
    Shadow Ball, Rest
    Destiny Bond, fast asleep
    Destiny Bond, fast asleep
    Sludge Bomb, Sub broke, CM
    Destiny Bond, Sub
    Sludge Bomb, Scald KO

    Yes I know that I win a 0-0 tie lol but I gave him a chance. I should have lost that one :/

    - #133 vs Scientist Charis – Magnezone, Vanilluxe, Tangrowth: Surf-Flash Cannon-Sash, Surf-Flash Cannon KO, Outrage KO, foe Vanilla, Outrage-Sitrus-Ice Beam, my Cune, Sub-Beam, CM-Taunt, Scald-Beam, Scald KO, foe Tang, Scald-Whip1-Sub broke-Taunt wore off, Sub-Whip2-Sub broke, Sub-Whip3-Sub broke, Sub-Whip4-Sub broke, Sub-Whip5-Sub broke, 49/205, Rest-Quake, asleep-AA, asleep-BB, woke up-Sub-BB, Scald-burn-Quake, Scald KO
    - #138 and #139 both lead with Tenta4[/size]

    154 battles (#15-168):
    3-0 x 108 = 70.1%
    2-0 x 42 = 27.3%
    1-0 x 4 = 2.6%
    0-0 x 0 = 0%

    I´m pretty happy with Naughty Surf so far (most noticable posititve was Regirock for me which I faced around 3 times today), although I ran into some Passho Berries because of being too eager to use Surf. Was a goner pretty much in the battle against Victreebel 3, also can´t believe Cune pulled a 1on1 win against Gengar4. Both situations should not have happened (misplay). Also lol at myself because I wouldn´t follow my own guide in some cases, which quickly turned into tough situations. I only got out of them with luck/no bad luck.

    The 70%+ 3-0 win rate (pretty much 5/7 battles) is impressive though. Of course, not all of them are 4 turn Cloyster sweeps, quite many are long battles with Suicune - the slow but solid sweeper. Maybe I should play less battles, because having to face back to back Vaporeon, Slowbro, Slowking, Tenta4 and all the other stuff I have to hard-stall is awful.

    EDIT: in the list, what the following means
    #127-133 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-2-2-1)
    is that I had 4 x 3-0, 2 x 2-0, 1 x 1-0 and 0 x 0-0 score in the specific set of 7, hence 4-2-1-0. The numbers that follow are for each battle in that set of 7. 3 means 3-0, 2 means 2-0 and 1 means 1-0.

    EDIT: oh yeah, version 2 means Naughty Surf Cloyster instead of Adamant Razor Shell, also 118sD/212 Scarf speed Garchomp instead of 106sD/231 Scarf speed.
  4. NoCheese

    NoCheese It's not just a house...it's a maison!
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    I lack the patience for going for spreads with big delays in Emerald, since I'm pretty bad at timing my button presses. Still, makes me appreciate 5th Gen RNG that much more!

    Like you, I actually RNGed a Registeel pretty recently too, trading a little bit in the other stats for more speed.

    Careful, 28/29/26/11/29/27.

    Have no clue how I want to use it yet, particularly with his options for Gen 3 exclusive moves, but seems like he should be really good in the Subway with proper teammates. Part of the difficulty is that in coming up with new team ideas, I find it really hard to pass on Suicune, which narrows my other choices a little.

    The other thing I keep wanting to try is Spiritomb, since he has reasonable defense, can set up with calm mind, and like Suicune has pressure to help him stall all the more efficiently. The low base hp and speed hurt though, even with no weaknesses.
  5. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    My Registeel spread was at a frame of 40842 which is approximately 11 and a half minutes. I chose that spread because it had high attack and defences, and speed is being lowered by Curse anyway, plus it was a short waiting time, but even that tested my patience because I hate it when you miss your spread by one delay. Thinking now, maybe a faster spread WOULD have been better but it's too late now. I actually like your spread better!

    I also got a Regirock with the same spread, and a calm Regice with 29/15/30/26/31/5, though I don't expect to find much use for them. I'm currently aiming for this Latias spread: Timid with 29/1/28/15/28/31. That would be used to crippling only obviously. On my second attempt (after the first attempt calibration), I missed my spread by one bloody frame!

    So yeah, I'm just glad you don't have to worry about hitting delays in 5th gen (except for Extralink abuse), they are so fustrating. I'm so glad that I didn't aim for spreads occurring after several hours since it would had driven me insane! I was planning to get Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquaza also but now I don't think I can be bothered...

    As for Spiritomb, he has his advantages over Suicune, mainly the fact that nothing is immune to Dark Pulse. However, it isn't even that bulky and it lacks good resistances (3 immunities is good though). I'm sure lots of things will stop it when set up anyway.
  6. ashez

    ashez

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    @Atsync - You forgot about Justified users being immune to Dark Pulse ;)
  7. LockDown

    LockDown

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    They're not. They still take damage from the move, but get an attack boost if they survive.
  8. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Right. Which for most intents and purposes, Pokés like Justified Cobalian benefit more so from Dark-type attacks than any other result. Also noting for public reference: You can use a monoattacking set, (only 1 attack from which no enemy Poké is immune,) with the following types: Dark, Dragon, Ice, Bug, Flying, Rock, Steel

    I can't tell what's wrong with my teambuilding process. Some of my teams seem literally perfectly built as far as I'm concerned but they end up falling short for the strangest reason or problems. Obviously hax beats every team but sometimes it's hard to ignore the losses from hax when they occur so often. Do I not use Substitute enough? Do I hate slow battles and setup too much? Here's my last team: SD Roost Scizor, bulky DD Gyarados, Sub SD Garchomp. the typing fits beautifully and the only problem I could tell during teambuilding was that I had no special attackers. But Gyarados was shit and didn't pull any weight so I swapped it out for Thick Fat SubPunch Hariyama which didn't do well either. So he got replaced with a DD Salamence and my team still didn't work. All routes point back to Drag-Mag and since my only really successful (not horribly slow or boring) team is Dragonite Heatran Latios, I might try to spin it up like I did originally with replacing Magnezone. Otherwise I'm hopeless
  9. yuki2012

    yuki2012

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    No, i am not in the list
  10. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    4th Gen RNGing isn't so bad though (I have not done any prior to 4th). I just RNG'ed a flawless Modest Roamer Latios today (modest since I already have a timid, and yeah, roamer, not the easy-to-rng event one)... mainly just to make sure I still remember how to do RNGing for 4th gen (since I might need/want something from 4th Gen for VGC Nats). But yeah, 5th Gen is just so much easier.

    I haven't been playing much subway the past while since I was prepping for VGC Regionals (which I got 4th in, losing to none other than our double subway boss R Inanimate). I'm gonna get back to it ... starting today! :P So far... at 42 streak in single with some random team.

    EDIT: O yeah, on the note on Spiritomb... I've tried it. It's fairly disappointing. It just isn't bulky enough and it does not hit hard enough. I've tried:
    1) CM/Sub/Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse / HP Fighting
    2) CM/Sub/Dark Pulse/Rest (@Chesto and @Lum), and
    3) CM/Sub/Dark Pulse/Pain Split

    ... Two facts still remain true: 1) not bulky enough, 2) not hard hitting enough. VS a defensive fighting type that can take a hit ... e.g. No Guard Machamp. Stone Edge breaks sub as your Dark Pulse does something like 50% damage. Stone Edge crit KO. That happened to me like 3 times I think. Then a bunch of other hard hitters also beat Spiritomb (I think one of them was Scrappy Kangaskhan, fighting move on Spiritomb for super effective).

    Oh, and that was in 4th Gen, before Justified was even introduced. I can only imagine that Spiritomb will have an even harder time. I think you might have a better chance with Dusknoir (yes, much lower SpA, but at least bulkier)... though I doubt that's too good either. Reuniclus might be interesting though (Magic Guard @ Lefties - CM/Sub/Psychic or Psyshock/HP Bug probably). Probably still no good facing a team of dark types though.
  11. bluemon

    bluemon

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    im so glad i could help you, peterko :D
  12. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

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    well i finally beat the subway boss on the super single train! i know all yuo guys viewing the thread have probally done this millions of times but it is a big aheivement for me i used a Shell smash Cloyster which i give all the credit to peterko to, bulk up Scrafty and specs latias i lost in the 56th battle however i beleieve my team has the potential to reach 100 wins

    edit i am changing Latais set to Physically defensive calm mind and see how that goes!
  13. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Yep I prefer 4th gen over 3rd gen. The annoying thing about 3rd gen is that the seed is always the same. This makes the RNG abuse easier I guess, but it also limits what spreads you can hit, hence why the spreads I got for the regis aren't completely flawless. Getting completely flawless spreads for wild/legendary pokemon is pretty much impossible because they occur at such high frames that you would quite literally have to leave your game turned on and running non-stop for several weeks at least until you got to them! At least in 4th and 5th gen you can manipulate your seed to get flawless spreads in a reasonable time frame.

    3rd gen is still good for breeding though, and it has some useful move tutors (mainly Double-Edge).

    Still working on getting my Latias (I'm sooo close) and then I'll get to EV training that Salamence and actually play some subway! Latios will probably still be better though despite Salamence's better defensive typing (for my team anyway).
  14. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    Yeah, I know about 3rd Gen RNGing's annoying-ness, which was why I was just wondering why you were RNGing your Latias in 3rd Gen instead of 4th... unless you only have SS and no HG?

    So, since I was RNGing in 4th Gen today, I decided to visit Battle Facilities in SS. Boy I sucked. I tried Double Open Level Factory... 4 times. First two times I couldn't even beat battle #1 lol. Then 3rd time I got good first round picks and finished one set of 7 and then lost on battle #8. 4th time, got to like battle #4... decided to give up.

    Then I played double level 50 factory. It turned out better. I got a fake out glameow which got me some good buffer space, and then I got a beautifly (hey final evolution pokemon is good!), but man, Chinchou's probably one of the best in the first set of 7, since it had really good coverage and "high power" moves like shockwave / Icy Wind / Bubblebeam (seems like many pokemon only had base 40 moves), and it's bulky and not super slow too. Anyway, I beat the first set of 7 and then lost again, no good picks for battle #8.

    Then I went to Battle Hall. I was playing on my SS which had barely any "good" pokemon. I didn't have very many items either... probably they all were transferred to my HG. Anyway, the few "good" pokemon I had in my boxes were:
    1) Sub-Petaya Empoleon (Surf/IceBeam/Sub/Agility)
    2) good coverage Electivire (IPunch/TPunch/EQ/Low Kick)
    3) classic Sash Gengar with energy ball (TBolt/Energy Ball/Shadow Ball/Destiny Bond),
    4) Hazards Nidoqueen (EQ/Ice Beam/T Spikes/Stealth Rock)
    5) Uh... some sort of Doubles Metagross (EQ/Bullet Punch/Explosion/Protect)
    6) CM Slowbro (Surf / Psychic / Slack Off / Calm Mind)
    7) Modest Starmie (Surf / TBolt / Ice Beam / Psychic)

    ... The only things out of those that were somewhat viable for Battle Hall I thought were Starmie, Gengar (if I get rid of DBond for something else), Electivire. This was just a "once in a long while" revisit to the Hall anyway, so I wasn't going to change any moveset*, so it was either Starmie or Electivire. I ended up choosing Electivire. I look to see what items I still have in SS. No Expert Belt or Life Orb, but I found a Choice Band, and it's probably best for hall anyway, so I slapped that on and tried to beat all the ground types first... It came to battle #11 I think... Low Kick missed Pilowine. Piloswine used Dig. Dig KOs Electivire. So that was that. I guess Piloswine had Bright powder? Obviously I didn't check the move list. If I knew its ground attack was going to be dig, I could have just EQ safely to 2HKO. O well.

    *More importantly, TMs weren't reuseable in Gen IV.

    Then I decided single tower was probably my "safest" way to actually get some sort of battle points. So out of those few pokemon listed above, I made this team: Gengar @Sash, Metagross @ Muscle Band (I don't have any better item), Slowbro @ Leftovers

    I didn't go with Starmie, since it's nearly same coverage as Gengar, and it's same typing as slowbro. Slowbro for set up sweeper is safer, imo. It's no Suicune, but it's still pretty awesome if I may say so, setting up on things like Dusknoir's Shadow Punch is no joke! :P

    Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that my streak was actually already at #50 (meaning I stopped at #49 last time I played Tower in SS some unknown amount of time ago). The team did pretty well. Plenty of battles went with Gengar 2HKOing something, Destiny Bond the second pokemon, and Metagross explode on the 3rd. I finished battle #63 and decided to call it a day.

    Good times, Soul Silver...
  15. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Nope, no HG for me. I wouldn't bother with Emerald for Latias if I did. It's ok, I don't mind, and I'm certainly not getting HG just to get one pokemon that I'm not even sure I'll use anyway.

    Oh and another thing that's annoying about 3rd gen is that you can't track roamers until you see them at least once. I have been searching for Latias for the last 3 hours :/

    Oh you bought back some memories of factory for me :) I remember how awesome Beautifly was for me, Chinchou was solid too. I also thought Delcatty, Onix, Shedinja (this is amazing since you know what pokemon your opponents are using and hence how useful it will be), Plusle and Minun were great too. I got to know them VERY well because I kept having to restart over and over and over...
  16. Tomas Fer

    Tomas Fer

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    Long time without working in my streak, but I have 147 wins in the Battle Subway Super Single and continues.

    I was using Trick+SubChomp, I don't know if I will change for the next battles, but this one is working.

    Annoying (Togekiss)@Choice Scarf
    Modest, Serene Grace
    SpAtk,Speed,4 SpDef
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere
    Heat Wave
    Trick

    Capitanazo (Latios)@Choice Specs
    Timid
    SpAtk,Speed,4 HP
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    HP Fire
    Trick

    Garchomon (Garchomp)@Leftovers
    Jolly
    HP,Spd,4 Atk
    Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Sword Dance
    Substitute

    I abuse that some sets doesn't have more than 1 Pokemon to deal with Garchomp, trick and force the switch while I hide and boost Garchomp with Sub and SD. Against Ice trainers I just spam flinch or just launch Heat Wave/Aura Sphere in case is some fragile Ice-type.

    Proof: http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd436/TomasFer99/Img_00035.jpg
  17. RiggyRob

    RiggyRob

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    Would anyone be willing to test a team out for me? It's an absolute BITCH to get the right Pokemon I want on the same team atm, and I'm interested in hearing how well they could possibly do:

    Hitmontop w/ Focus Sash
    Adamant, 252Hp 252Atk 4Speed
    Technician
    Fake Out/Mach Punch/Bullet Punch/Aerial Ace

    Bisharp w/ Chople Berry/Air Balloon/Life Orb/Dark Gem/Lum Berry/whatever you like
    Adamant, 252Hp 252Atk 4Speed
    Defiant
    Taunt/Sucker Punch/Iron Head/filler (most likely Night Slash/Brick Break)

    + Classic Subway Suicune

    Show Hide
    Priority abuse is the name of the game here, using the Doubles Technitop + Bisharp combo - after all, if you KO them first, they can't KO you back. It eliminates the threat of the 'speed crew' (which I've taken to mean most Pokemon over 100 base speed); while others have used Scizor to counter them, I thought 'why not go one better?' and use two Pokemon with priority that has either better coverage or more power. Technitop w/ Fake Out and Mach Punch should deal two reasonable blows to any non-Ghost Pokemon and with Focus Sash it should survive almost any hit. Bisharp resists both of Hitmontop's weaknesses, taking the Psychic and Flying hits aimed at him, and importantly adds a Dragon resist which I've never had on a team before. I've chosen him over Scizor specifically for the Dark STAB, Psychic immunity and Flying resist, although Scizor may be a better overall fit for the team. Finally, the classic Subway Suicune is there to do it's job like everyone knows it can.

    On Technitop, Aerial Ace is there to take out opposing Fighting types and acts as the counter to my personal nemesis, Volcarona - it also deals with Snow Cloak/Sand Veil/Double Team spam. Taunt and Sucker Punch on Bisharp screw up Trick Room/set up Pokemon, but the beauty of priority abuse is that no matter what, you will always hit them before they hit you.

    I'm not sure on the order of the Pokemon, perhaps having Bisharp lead would be better for Intimidate users in particular, but I'm reasonably sure this team would work as it is, with Fake Out providing a free hit on almost every lead.

    Potential problems:
    Inner Focus leads - the majority of these are Fighting (Aerial Ace + priority move), Psychic (switch to Bisharp) or Crobat (Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch/switch to Bisharp). Dragonite would also merit a switch to Bisharp, but you could be gutsy and play for Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch with Hitmontop.

    Status - Poison, I have found, is not really a threat in the Subway - battles tend to be quite short and rarely do the AI play well enough to Toxic-stall successfully, not to mention Bisharp is immune anyway. Paralysis is, in theory, not a problem since the team uses priority, but the chance of being fully paralyzed cannot be ignored. Burn would screw up both Hitmontop and Bisharp, which makes Volcarona just that little more infuriating to deal with. Sleep is probably the most threatening, which could necessitate a Lum Berry on Bisharp, but Taunt would also take care of status moves. In most cases, Suicune takes on statusers and comes out on top.

    Bulkiness - Hitmontop isn't the strongest, so it could come short of KO'ing a Pokemon more than a few times, but that's what Focus Sash is there for - Sandstorm and Hail both break the Sash but Hitmontop comfortably beats both Abomasnow and Tyranitar; Hippowdon could pose a problem though. Dragons with Fire/Ground/Fighting attacks could destroy this team, depending on how it's played, but there is always an opportunity to play well and win; for example, Salamence could be overcome by a combination of Fake Out + Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch, or +1 Sucker Punch w/ Dark Gem/Life Orb thanks to Defiant.


    If anyone ever feels like testing out this team, let me know - I'm trying to evolve a Tyrogue but as you could expect the Attack and Defence are nowhere near equal (I could EV it in Defence to balance the stats, but I only have one Qualot berry and I can't connect to the Dream World at this moment in time). Also, Sucker Punch is an egg move on Bisharp, which is annoying but I'd be able to deal with it in time. I'm surprised there hasn't been a streak with either of these Pokemon in Super Singles, is Doubles really all Technitop + Bisharp are good for?
  18. Manveru123

    Manveru123

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    Actually atsync used Bisharp in his highest Singles streak.
  19. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I've used both of those before, but not in the same team (EDIT: Oh, and unfortunately not in Singles). From my experience, Bisharp would like the Sash more than Hitmontop does for a couple reasons:
    1) Bisharp is immune to sand while Hitmontop isn't, so sand does not make Bisharp's sash useless.
    2) Bisharp faints too easily from fighting moves even with Chople, and then ground moves and fire moves also kill it rather easily. Hitmontop, from my experience, is better at taking hits.

    O yeah, Bisharp comfortably beats Abomasnow and Tyranitar with Iron Head too.

    Top is good in Doubles because of Fake out and all those priority moves (and Intimidate and Tech both work).

    I thought about using Top as a set up sweeper before (Something like Bulk Up / Sub / Mach Punch / Sucker Punch or Bullet Punch or something else), but yeah, even with adamant and max attack, it's still no scizor with its tech bullet punch (which even then doesn't automatically beat everything). I dunno. might be worth giving a try in singles.
  20. Odin

    Odin

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Battle Subway Super Singles record: 99

    Battle Video: 14-81672-23650

    Starmie @Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EV: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
    IV: 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31
    Lv50: 135/ 85/ 105/ 152/ 106/ 183
    Move set:
    -Grass Knot
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Surf

    Garchomp @Dragon Gem
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EV: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    IV: 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31
    Lv50: 184/ 182/ 115/ 82/ 105/ 169
    Move set:
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -Fire Fang
    -Swords Dance

    Ferrothorn @Leaftovers
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EV: 252 HP/ 88 Def/ 168 SpD
    IV: 31/ 31/ 31/ 23/ 31/ 0
    Lv50: 181/ 114/ 178/ 70/ 157/ 22
    Move set:
    -Gyro Ball
    -Protect
    -Curse
    -Leech Seed

    What I did with Starmie as lead was trying to sweep using it's move set and if I suspected a electric/Ghost attack I would switch to Garchomp/Ferrothorn.

    Ferrothorn pretty much stopped high defensive pokes along some evasion teams, making leech seed the star ability, curse was also handy when I fought Confagrigus as it used to wall me when I didn´t had it, and again leech seed to finish it off when it uses Destiny Bond

    Garchomp was usually the final pokemon to go out and finish the rest of the opponents team, with dragon gem and outrage dealing alot of neutral damage

    How I lost:

    I don´t use calculators and the list of moves the opponent pokemons have so I thought Starmie would resist an Air Slash from Togekiss, following by the fact that I forgot that Togekiss usually carries Heat Wave which was reminded when it kill my Ferrothorn, I manage to finish off Togekiss with Garchomp but a faster Mienshao Hi Jump Kicked me out of my streak

    Sorry for the possibly bad english
  21. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Ok so I finally got my Emerald Latias. Haven't done anything with it yet. I'm just glad I have a usable one now.

    So I am back to the subway. I'm currently playing doubles with Sawk/Gengar/Metagross/filler, filler being a variety of dragon pokemon. I'm currently using a special attacking Salamence. So far it has been solid. The power drop from Latios is definitely noticable but so far it hasn't mattered too much. I'm currently running Dragon Fang which has been fine but I'd rather have Life Orb. I'm considering giving Salamence Life Orb and giving Metagross Steel Gem instead. I've used Steel Gem Metagross before and it has worked well enough, plus 2 of Metagross's 3 attacking moves are Steel type. The fact that it's a one use item is a shame but Metagross usually only needs to attack once to finish the match (a lot of the time it doesn't even make on appearance). Steel Plate/Metal Coat could also work I suppose...

    The speed drop from Latios to Salamence hasn't been that noticable yet, other than against a Durant that flinched Salamence with Iron Head before I could hit it with Flamethrower (I still won).

    On the other hand, Intimidate is awesome and I've found that Salamence has more switch-in opportunities that Latios thanks to the lower number of weaknesses. Of course, Flamethrower is an important advantage over Latios, and even Hydro Pump has helped (obviously I only use it if I absolutely have to; I've used Rotom-W enough to know that the accuracy will kill you if you get too bold with it). Yes I'm aware that Latios learns Surf but I can't use it for this team as my teammates can't tolerate it.

    I haven't tried Hydreigon on this team yet (I've tried it on other teams but I didn't find its advantages useful on those teams). The extra power would be nice but I like Hydro Pump over Dark Pulse (Dark Pulse is a bit redundant because of Gengar). Actually, I was thinking that Latias could work too lol. Same sp. att. as Salamence and a similarly luxurious movepool, but no Flamethrower or Hydro Pump and the same 'lots of annoying weaknesses' issue as Latios. I don't have an offensive Latias though. There's also Dragonite, but 95 sp. att. isn't that great.

    So I'll just stick with Salamence for now. Hydreigon is my next choice if that doesn't work though (maybe with Earth Power instead of Dark Pulse).

    EDIT: I took a brief break to have a tilt at the Emerald Battle Factory (lv.50). I got a streak of 25 wins (and 25 swaps). I lost to complete hax and shitty matchups. I lead with mono-attacking Jolteon and I'm forced out by Golem. I send in my mono-attacking (Psychic Starmie) who 2HKOs Golem. The opponent sends in Umbreon. I switch to Machamp. It confuses me with Confuse Ray and I get a 4 turn confusion that always results in me hitting myself. In the meantime it sets up 1 Double Team, hits me for little damage, and baton passes to Charizard, who kills me with Fire Blast. I send in Jolteon, who can OHKO it, but Charizard SURVIVES with its Focus Band and kills me with Fire Blast. Starmie finishes it off but then I'm left to somehow PP stall an Umbreon with Brightpowder, Double Team, Faint Attack AND Confuse Ray. I couldn't even try Thunder Wave because of Synchronize! Oh well, back to Subway for me...
  22. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,298
    lol i realised my scrafty had zero attack evs for my previous streak. i will probally try the same team again consisting of latias, scrafty and cloyster and see how i go after beating the subway boss my goal is to get to 100 wins
    Edit: i am changin latias to latios also this time around i would pick latias but Latios is a better scarfer sporting higher speical attack i will still always love latias more and maybe later create a battle subway team in her most Honourable set Pyshically defensive calm mind anyway good luck to anyone in the battle subway as it is time to continue my streak!
  23. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Shit :(

    I just lost a streak at 99 wins, which means I matched my previous personal best, with Sawk/Gengar/Metagross/Salamence. The worst thing was that it was completely avoidable.

    I had Salamence and Gengar, both injured, against a Jolteon that was alive by the skin of its teeth. To win, I should Dragon Pulse and Shadow Ball, since Jolteon could only kill one of us with Thunder (the survivor would finish Jolteon off). But no, I was in autopilot mode and hit Protect on Gengar by accident. Jolteon Thunders Salamence to death while Gengar Protects, and then Gengar dies the next turn. Of course, Jolteon didn't miss Thunder once out of the 5 times it used it, and the way it targetted Salamence was certainly convenient, but seriously I'm so dumb (and I swear that I was making the right plays up until that point).

    This isn't an actual write-up, I won't do one of those until I either beat my personal best or get bored with this team. I did give Salamence Life Orb in the end, and Metagross Iron Plate, and it's been worthwhile. Probably the biggest threat right now is Psychics, what with all of those Fighting resistant/immune pokemon that they carry, which has me thinking that Dark Pulse Hydreigon might be a good choice after all. On the other hand, Hydro Pump saved me against Choice Scarf Entei, who is the one pokemon that I hope to never meet again with this team. Hmmm...
  24. lolnub

    lolnub

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    Battle Subway Super Double Battle Record: 177

    [​IMG]
    Pichu @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Static
    Naive Nature
    IVs: 0/31/0/31/0/31
    EVs: 255 Atk / 255 Spe
    Helping Hand
    Protect
    Fake Out
    Light Screen

    [​IMG]
    Entei @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Pressure
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 31/31/31/30/30/31
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Eruption
    Flamethrower
    HP Ground
    Shadow Ball

    I got this strategie from Pikiwyn. When I saw his strategy with carvanha I immediately felt in love with it. I wanted something different though, because I don’t like to kopie exact same strategies, so I came up with this. Pichu is really an awesome Pokemon in this kind of team (I never thought I would ever saw something like that). He has a lot of advances over Carvanha. First, it has Static, but that was not the reason I chose it. That was Helping Hand. Helping Hand makes Entei’s Eruptions hit even harder then they already do. The reason I chose Pichu over other low defense Helping Handers was Fake Out. This move makes sure Pichu lives at least 2 turns (first turn Fake out, second turn Protect).
    Entei is just the same as that of Pikiwyn, but with Shadow ball over Extrasensory. This is for some Trick Roomers, especially Slowking, who is killed by a combination of Fake Out + Shadow Ball + Helping Hand Shadow Ball. I have not used this, because I came to the conclusion that TR isn’t even that bad, because Pichu still attracts all attacks to him so Entei can just go on with Eruptionspam. Shadow Ball can still be handy in some situations against ghosts/psychics when he is low on health. Latios has already Psychic so I figured Shadow Ball was just a better option.

    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 29/2/29/29/31/31
    EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Dragon Pulse
    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Protect

    Latios is just the standard Pokemon for testing teams, because it is so damn reliable. Everything should be obvious. Psychic and Dragon Pulse for STABs en Thunderbolt to hit waters and flyers. Protect because it is Protect and Expert Belt because Life Orb was already being used. No Draco Meteor, because it had 90 acruacy and I don’t like the SpA drop. Especialy because Latios is most of the time one of the last Pokemons and can’t switch out, so
    it’s stuck with a -2 SpA.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 31/31/28/31/28/31
    EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
    Bullet Punch
    Bug Bite
    Super Power
    Protect

    I didn’t really know what to use in this spot. I knew I wanted something to kill Terrakion because Pikiwyn said in his post that it was a big threat for his team. I first picked Azumarill, because it could also kill Heatran (another threat for this team). I tried Azumarill, but lost around the twenty's. I then watched at Heatrans movesets and noticed that Scizor could also check Heatran when he has Super Power. This, because 3/4 do not have any speedinvestment. The other one is scarfed so Latios could easily take care of that one (and when it is locked in earth Power or something, even Scizor isn’t afraid of that one). Super Power hits a 252 HP Heatran for at least 93,94% and has 68,75% to KO. This is 100% a KO when Pichu uses Helping Hand obviously so it was good enough for me. I gave Scizor a Life Orb so it could kill Terrakion almost for sure with Bullet Punch (87,5 % to KO). This is also the only Pokemon who wasn’t RNGd. I bred this around 2 years ago and never felt the need to rebreed it, because those 3 points for both defense are not really noticeable.

    How I lost:

    Log (open)
    Turn 1:
    Pichu Fake out Zapdos
    Entei Hidden power Heatran (almost death)
    Zapdos Flinched
    Heatran overheat Pichu (critical hit, focus Sash)

    Turn 2:
    Pichu Protect
    Entei Hidden Power Heatran (KO)
    Zapdos Heat wave (Pichu Protected)
    Opp Switch in Landorus

    Turn 3:
    Switch out Entei for Latios
    Pichu Protect (failed)
    Landorus Earth Power Pichu (KO)
    Zapdos Heat Wave Latios (burn)
    Switch in Scizor

    Turn 4:
    Scizor Protect
    Latios Dragon Pulse Zapdos (over half health left)
    Landorur Sludge bomb Latios
    Zapdos Heat Wave (scizor protected itself)

    Turn 5:
    Switch out Scizor for Entei
    Latios Dragon Pulse Zapdos (to yellow)
    Landorus Sludge Bomb Latios (KO)
    Zapdos Heat Wave Entei (avoided)
    Switch in Scizor

    Turn 6:
    Scizor Bullet Punch Landorus (critical Hit, focus Sash)
    Landorus Earth Power Entei (KO)
    Zapdos Heat Wave Scizor (KO)

    GG


    Battle Video: 33-29998 - 17276

    Last one was Entei so would almost lose for sure. It was just an annoying team to face. Espacialy the Zapdos, because Latios could 2HKO every other and then the chance of winning would be bigger. When I saw that the first was not a KO, I should have focused on Landorus so Scizor could finish Landorus off and my Entei could kill Zapdos. It then would be 2 (scizor and Entei) against Entei.

    Oh well, I think It is really cool that I came this far with a Pichu. It is even better as my Tailwind team (171), so that's cool. Now gonna look for a different strategie to test.
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    I tried Hydreigon over Salamence. It definitely has its advantages. Psychic trainers are much more managable and the extra power is useful. On the other hand, Hydreigon's fighting and bug weaknesses are fustrating. Things like Infernape 4, max speed Accelgor, and Volcarona are much harder to play around with Hydreigon, whereas Salamence can switch in on them and check them well. The lower speed isn't that big of a deal though not speed-tying with things like Zapdos and opposing Salamence is bad (in fact, Hydreigon's lower speed makes him less able to beat opposing dragons like Salamence, other Hydreigon and even Flygon).

    Amusingly, I got a streak of 98 wins! During battle 99, Biker Petro lead with Spiritomb and Yanmega. Normally I Rock Slide against Yanmega but this time I switched in Metagross for Sawk (Gengar Taunted Spiritomb). Next turn I expected Spiritomb to hit Gengar with Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch so I protected but it decided to target Metagross instead, and Yanmega finished it off with Bug Buzz. Probably should have used Bullet Punch instead but it didn't decided the match as much as my unnecessary first turn switch. The backups were Tyranitar and Sash Infernape so it was a difficult match up over all. It would have been nice if they had held off for a couple of battles before giving me that matchup, but it was my own fault. I was rushing to get to 100 wins and I didn't think more carefully about the situation.

    I'm trying Salamence again. Hopefully I'll get over 100 soon regardless of which Dragon I use.

    Nice streak lolnub. Have you thought about giving Latios Dragon Fang instead? I've personally never been fond of Expert Belt on Latios since its main STAB (Dragon Pulse) will almost never get a boost (its super-effective coverage is horrible, lets face it). Dragon Fang provides an equivalent boost to Dragon Pulse every time you use it. I guess Expert Belt is better for Psychic and Thunderbolt though...

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