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Blastoise (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Rocket Boss Giovanni, Dec 29, 2010.

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  1. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    [​IMG]
    Blastoise
    Official Pokemon Site

    [Overview]
    • Respectable defenses plus superior defensive typing allow it to take attacks from both sides of the attacking spectrum with relative ease.
    • Decent support moves such as Haze, Roar, and Toxic.
    • The addition of Rain Dish in the Dream World along with its excellent defenses make it difficult to KO.
    • While not excellent, Blastoise does have respectable attacking stats making it possible to run an offensive set.

    [SET]
    name: Stall Tortoise
    move 1: Rapid Spin / Rest
    move 2: Substitute / Protect
    move 3: Toxic / Dragon Tail / Roar
    move 4: Boil Over
    nature: Bold/Calm
    ability: Rain Dish
    item: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD

    [set comments]
    • With a combination of Rain Dish and Leftovers, Blastoise recovers 12% of its health each turn. That in combination with Protect/Substitute allows Blastoise to stall out many opponents, even those that carry Grass or Electric type moves
    • Toxic is to help when stalling out opponents while Roar is for phazing opponents to either spread Toxic to the opponent's team or to rack up entry hazard damage. Dragon Tail can be used over Roar if you want to damage the opponent as well as have one other option against Taunt.
    • An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef should be run if using a Calm nature to maximize defenses on both sides.
    • Boiling Water is there for the chance of burning physical threats, but Rapid Spin can be used if your team has no other spinner. Both moves prevent you from being Taunt bait.
    • Rapid Spin can be used to get rid of entry hazards, but Rest should be noted as a way to return Blastoise to full health.
    • If you are afraid of losing the rain, an alternative would be to use Blastoise's Torrent ability and put Aqua Ring in the first moveslot. This way Blastoise gets the same recovery but does not need to rely on rain. Unfortunately Rain Dish and Aqua Ring are illegal on the same set as of right now.
    [additional comments]

    • While Blastoise is good at stalling for time, it does lack a instant source of recovery. While Rest is slashed on this set, a lot of time Rapid Spin is the better option, and as such Blastoise loves Wish support to return to full health.
    • The EVs above are listed to give the most balanced defenses from both sides of the spectrum. If you would rather defend from only one side of the spectrum, just shift the extra EVs from one defense to the other and adjust the nature accordingly.
    • This particular Blastoise set likes to be on a rain team, as it has a very similar role to Walrein in Generation IV, being able to take hits well and recover the health quickly.


    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Focus Blast
    nature: Modest
    ability: Torrent / Rain Dish
    item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe

    [set comments]
    • Taken almost directly from Generation IV analysis, this set remains viable in Generation V.
    • Hydro Pump and Surf give STAB and are its most reliable move. If you opt for Torrent over Rain Dish it will also make a major dent in things when Blastoise gets into Torrent range. Hydro Pump for sheer power, but Surf is viable if you are worried about Hydro Pump's less than stellar accuracy.
    • With the addition of even more Dragon types, Ice Beam remains viable as a way to deal with them.
    • Hidden Power Electric lets it handle other Blastoise, while Hidden Power Grass lets Blastoise take on the Water/Ground types like Swampert, Quagsire, and Gamageroge.
    • Focus Blast gives Blastoise a way to hurt Steel types that would otherwise completely wall this set.
    • Choise Specs gives Blastoise more power that it needs to score a lot of KOs where Life Orb allows it to switch attacks. Life Orb should really only be used with Rain Dish to minimize recoil damage.
    • Due to Blastoise's low speed, a Quiet nature with a spread of 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD could be run on a Trick Room team and use Water Spout in the first move slot.
    [additional comments]

    • As mentioned earlier, Blastoise is very slow compared to other sweepers and as such would benefit from Agility passers on its team like Ninjask or Jolteon.
    • Blastoise, despite natural bulk, would not mind Wish support on this set either, especially if there are a lot of hazards on the field.


    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin Attacker
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Aqua Jet
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Rapid Spin
    nature: Modest
    ability: Torrent / Rain Dish
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe

    [set comments]
    • Blastoise makes a very good lead as it is able to hurt many other opponents with Hydro Pump and finish them off with Aqua Jet even with a -Attack nature.
    • Life Orb gives Blastoise a needed power boost, but Lum Berry protects it against status users that are becoming even more popular.
    • Rapid Spin lets it get rid of the hazards that the opponent set up.
    [additional comments]

    • If you are really worried about Blastoise not being able to seal a KO with Aqua Jet, a Mild nature could be run over Modest to give a small boost to Blastoise's Attack stat.
    • Blastoise is able to catch a lot of teams off guard because most people expect a bulky Blastoise. Use this to your advantage. Also, this set fits well onto most teams, from hyper offense to stall.
    • Wish support is a great asset to this Blastoise, allowing it to survive better and usually make it into the late game. This set can be used at any time during the battle, from lead position to late game cleanup.


    [SET]
    name: Pseudo-Hazer Utility
    move 1: Dragon Tail
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Aqua Jet
    move 4: Ice Punch / Hail
    nature: Careful
    ability: Torrent / Rain Dish
    item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 6 SpD

    [set comments]
    • Blastoise has one main advantage over other bulky water Rapid Spinners in the OU environment, and that is access to Dragon Tail. If expecting a switch into a spinblocker, Blastoise can Dragon Tail to phaze it out.
    • Aqua Jet and Ice Punch give Blastoise a way to strike back at some of the threats. With its bulk Blastoise can survive many unboosted hits (and some boosted) and strike back with a Dragon Tail or Aqua Jet. Torrent boosted Aqua Jet can put a major dent in Doryuzuu, netting a clean 2HKO.
    • Ice Punch can be used to severely hurt Outrage-locked Dragons such as Salamence, Garchomp, or Ononokusu, but Hail can be used to get rid of other weather effects that so many sweepers rely on. Ice Punch also gives some redundant coverage on the Dragons with Dragon Tail being the focus of the set.
    [additional comments]

    • As this set causes a lot of switches with Dragon Tail, something that can set up a lot of entry hazards like Nattorei or Roserade to spread damage to the opposing team almost goes without saying.
    • If you opt to run Hail over Ice Punch, this set wouldn't mind another Pokemon who can switch weather effects too, as Hail aims to disrupt the perma-weather.


    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Water Spout / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake / Hidden Power Electric
    move 4: Ice Beam
    nature: Naive
    ability: Torrent
    EVs: 128 Att / 128 SpA / 252 Spe

    [set comments]
    • With a Naive nature and max Speed EVs, Blastoise reaches 420 speed with its Scarf.
    • Water Spout at full health has a huge Base Power of 225 (337 in the rain). However, Hydro Pump deserves a mention because it has 180 Base Power (270 in rain) no matter what Blastoise's HP, allowing it to hit harder over the long run.
    • Outrage is a Gen IV move tutor move, but it allows Blastoise to revenge kill all the dragons (even those that are not weak to Ice attacks, like Kingdra).
    • Earthquake gives good neutral coverage, but Hidden Power Electric along with Ice Beam gives pseudo BoltBeam coverage that will give even better coverage.
    • If you opt to use Water Spout, please note that Rain Dish is illegal with it. If you want Rain Dish recovery, you have to use Hydro Pump. Outrage is also illegal with Rain Dish.
    [additional comments]

    • With a Scarf, Blastoise gets infinitely faster. However, it is still lackluster against other scarfers and as such should be used with caution.
    • If your aim is to use this Blastoise to take out Doryuzuu in the sand, it needs an Agility passed to it otherwise it will not outspeed.
    • This Blastoise makes a really good revenge killer. However, it does value Wish support on its team, but it isn't truly necessary.


    [SET]
    name: Trick Room sweeper
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Hydro Pump/Surf
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Ability: Torrent
    Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 SpD

    [set comments]
    • This set aims to use Blastoise's dismal speed to its advantage. After setting up Trick Room, Blastoise is usually going to move first against everything except Pokemon like Rankurusu and Roobushin.
    • Water Spout is a good move to lead with, as it allows it to leave a huge dent in almost everything, even those that resist it. As Blastoise's HP gets whittled down over time, Hydro Pump or Surf (depending on preference) becomes the better option.
    • Ice Beam is there to provide good neutral coverage as well as a way for Blastoise to take out dragons silly enough to stay in during Trick Room
    • The last slot is a matter of preference. Hidden Power Electric gives pseudo-BoltBeam coverage that hits almost everything in OU for at least neutral, but Hidden Power Ground gives Blastoise a way to hit the expected electric switch in for super effective damage. Hidden Power Fire smacks Nattorei hard, but if using Blastoise in the rain Hidden Power Ground is a better option.
    [additional comments]

    • Rankurusu makes a good teammate on a Trick Room team due to its ability to set up Trick Room as well as its sturdier defenses compared to Blastoise.
    • Where Blastoise is able to hit from the special side, a good physical teammate to Blastoise would be Roobushin or Shubarugo. Shubarugo is able to wall Electric or Grass attacks aimed at Blastoise, and Roobushin is yet another counter for Doryuzuu.
    • If you're going to stall with Blastoise, rain support is almost required because otherwise Blastoise loses a lot of its bulk from Rain Dish recovery.




    [optional changes]
    • Blastoise is one Pokemon that can fill holes in a team. If you need a bulky water on a team with a glaring Grass weakness, Blastoise leaves its mark over Swampert/Gastrodon. Blastoise shouldn't be something to build a team around, but rather fills the gaps.
    • As stated above, Foresight can be added if you want to be able to spin away hazards in the face of ghosts like Gengar, Shandera, or Burungeru.
    • Blastoise is one of few Rapid Spin users with access to Foresight. With this, it is able to spin away hazards in the face of ghost types like Desukan or Burungeru.

    [team options]
    • Blastoise gets Rain Dish in the Dream World, so he absolutely loves Drizzle Politoed on his team to help his stall capabilites.
    • Blastoise draws in a lot of grass and electric types, and teammates with Volt Absorb/Lightningrod/Herbivore will gladly take an electric or grass attack aimed at it.
    • Offensive Blastoise is relatively slow and do very well getting passed some speed boosts to outspeed opponents.
    • While Blastoise does have very good defenses, it lacks reliable recovery outside of Rest so any hard hitting attacker like Ononokusu and Shandera can usually handle Blastoise with relative ease.
    • If using Blastoise for an offensive set, make sure that Blastoise is the best option for you. Other offensive bulky waters such as Swampert or Gyarados can fill the same role as Blastoise with better offensive stats. The one advantage that Blastoise has over most offensive bulky waters is access to Rapid Spin.
    [counters]

    • Grass types such as Erufuun and Celebi make great counters for Blastoise with their resistances to its STAB attacks. They can also threaten it back with super effective Grass type attacks.
    • Bulky water types like Slowbro can also wall Blastoise, forcing it to either switch out or not be able to do much damage.
    • Steel types like Magnezone or Jirachi can force Blastoise out as they resist all of its attacks outside of the rare Hidden Power Ground/Fire and set up on the switch.



    [Dream World]
    • The Dream World was very kind to Blastoise. Rain Dish gives Blastoise a way to recover health passively in rain, which is fairly common with the addition of Drizzle to OU.
    • Rain Dish should be used on either rain teams or when Blastoise wants to be more defensive. Torrent should be used on any offensive set simply because it allows it a free boost in its STAB attacks when under 1/3 health.
  2. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Lacking 4 evs.
  3. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    Ha thanks for that. Apparently I can't do math. Corrected.
  4. chocolate-kipp

    chocolate-kipp

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    EVs should be in a different order on the first set. Should be 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD instead of what you have listed. Just a nitpick.
  5. moogleking

    moogleking

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    Correct me if I'm wrong; but all Dream World Squirtle are Male; hence can't pass the ability on via breeding and can't get Egg Moves with Rain Dish? They were banned from Little Cup for similar reasons.
  6. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    moogleking is correct. However, none of the given moves are illegal with Rain Dish, so there is no cause for worry.

    In [Teammates and Counters], it is not Attacking Blastoise, but Offensive Blastoise.

    With team preview, dedicated leads are not good, so change that set to a Rapid Spin set.
  7. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    No, I just checked that moogleking and Aqua Ring is an egg move, so I've replaced that. Good catch, that totally slipped my mind.
  8. destinybond

    destinybond

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    You mention Aqua Ring in the overview, but not in a set.
    I know you edited it out, but that was over a day ago.
  9. tubbablubba

    tubbablubba

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    I've been running a Utility Blastoise to some good success and it would probably be a nice consideration for the analysis.

    Blastoise @Leftovers/Wacan Berry
    Torrent w/ Careful Nature
    252 Hp EVs 252 Atk EVs
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Punch
    -Rapid Spin
    -Hail

    Blastoise can use its good defensive typing and relative bulk to come in on resisted attacks and rapid spin or hail, depending on what will help you out more in your current situation. Leftovers is good for longevity but Wacan is a good choice if you want rain removal because multiple rain sweepers can OHKO blastoise with electric type attacks.

    Offensively blastoise is pretty lackluster but aqua jet can help revenge kill doryuzuu. Blastoise can even come in on a dorry attack, get its torrent boost and guarantee the ko with aqua jet. (I'm not positive on the calcs but pretty sure its OHKO with rocks). Ice punch is for revenge killing outrage locked dragons. If you want this to be more of a focal point of the set an adamant nature should be considered.
  10. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    rapid spinning is one of blastoise's main selling points, so i don't think that it should be slashed with rest on the stall tortoise set. especially in this metagame, where nattorei and its spikes/stealth rock are on so many teams, having a rapid spinner on your team is a pretty big blessing. rapid spin is the main reason that i would use blastoise over almost any other bulky water-type, so i don't think that slashing it is a good idea, as it is one of the most effective things blastoise can do to support its team. i think that rest is important on the set, so i think that you could slash it in place of another move or something, but i feel that rapid spin is important enough to stand alone and not be slashed with anything. i'll leave the reorganizing of the other moves up to you.
  11. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

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    Really not seeing why Boiling Water has the first slash on the offensive set when you're trying to do as much damage as possible; it's like using Lava Plume on SpecsTran. Change it to Surf / Hydro Pump.
  12. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Now that TEA DEMON mentioned, Blastoise has a powerful Water move in Water Spout. Sure, it sucks if Blastoise is hurt, especially with all that entry hazards running around, but is definitively worth of a mention. In Rain with Specs, Blastoise can 2HKO Nattorei if at full health provided that Nattorei had entered in Stealth Rock. Might not be the best move, but is worth for a mention.
  13. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    Definitely not. Blastoise has poor Speed, and cannot abuse Water Spout for a "strong STAB move".
  14. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    Imo the main advantage Blastoise has as a Water type spinner over Starmie is Dragon Tail, as it can predict a Spin Blocker switching in and phase it, making spin blocking Blastoise a mindgame. I can't really think of anything else Blastoise has any business doing in OU, but I know from personal experience Dragon Tail/Rapid Spin is really annoying, it should be emphasized.
  15. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    tubbablubba, I sort of combined your set with that of Rhys DeAnno for a utility set. As for Don and Calm's debate about Water Spout, I added a Choice Scarf set with both sides of that argument. If someone could do a damage calc for Torrent Boosted Aqua Jet from my utility set against Jolly Doryuzuu, that would be excellent (because I don't know where I can find a 5th gen damage calculator). Thanks for the CC guys, this analysis is really coming together (at least in my opinion.
  16. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    On a Trick Room team, it's possible but not advisable.
  17. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Vs 4 HP/0 Def Doryuuzu: 60,2 ~ 71,8%. A clear 2HKO.
  18. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    Thanks Don. Any other suggestions, otherwise I plan on running some fine tuning and hopefully submitting this to QA by Wednesday.
  19. Reliking

    Reliking

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    Just call the rapid spin attacker set a lead set.

    IMO, Blastoise's best option is a lead. I dont know why, but no one seems to be prepared to face him.
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Wait, are you sure about this? Doryuuzu's Speed in the Sand doubles, and only VERY fast Pokemon with Choice Scarf outspeed it, even Adamant natured versions. I'm also VERY iffy on the use of Outrage because most Dragons are users of Dragon Dance, and Naive 78 Speed isn't fantastic generally.

    Other than that, the bullet points seem to be find. Just mention that on the more offensive sets, Blastoise needs to be thought out in comparison to the "other competition".
  21. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    I hate, hate, HATE that Rain Dish is illegal with Water Spout. Because really, that would be fucking awesome.

    You should prolly say that on the Scarf set. :/

    You should prolly also list some grass-types for teammates, what with their electric-resistiness and grass-resistiness. Like Erufuun. Or, um, Celebi.
  22. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    With team previews, dedicated lead sets are not recommended. At least this is what I was told.

    I just checked that, and I fail epically at math. Not to mention I totally thought it was a 1.5x boost, not 2x boost. Adamant Doryuzuu without any boosts is 5 speed points slower than Max+ Blastoise.

    Done.

    *********************************
    Any other CC, otherwise I'm gonna post for QC checks.
  23. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Is Foresight a worth a slash ? Blastoise is one of the few spinners who can actually spin on ghosts because of this, this is especially useful for Burungeru.
  24. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    I added it to the additional comments, simply because in my opinion the Rapid Spin sets I have listed are starting to suffer from moveslot syndrome.
  25. Rocket Boss Giovanni

    Rocket Boss Giovanni

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    Bumping this to the first page for QC approval.
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