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Blastoise [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Ace Emerald, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Ace Emerald

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    [​IMG]
    Blastoise

    [Overview]

    <p>Blastoise is famous for being the best user of Rapid Spin in UU. Its usable bulk and decent defensive typing give Blastoise many opportunities to enter battle and clear hazards from the field. Its access to Scald gives it a chance to burn Ghost-types that try and prevent the use of Rapid Spin and possibly ruin their longevity. It can even bypass their immunity to Rapid Spin entirely with Foresight. Scald's burn chance combined with Blastoise's access to phazing moves ensure that other Pokemon won't use Blastoise as setup bait. Unfortunately, though it is a good Rapid Spin user, it is a bad bulky Water-type. The other bulky Water-types, such as Suicune, Slowbro, Milotic, and Swampert, offer better bulk and various other advantages, such as recovery, better movepools, and useful secondary typings. These Pokemon often take up Blastoise's niche and make it hard to fit on teams. Even so, Blastoise continues to find space on teams as a great spinner.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Roar / Dragon Tail
    move 4: Foresight / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The purpose of this set is to support teams by clearing entry hazards from your side of the field. As such, Rapid Spin is the crucial move of the set. Scald's burn chance wears down Ghost-types that try to block Rapid Spin, as well as cripples Pokemon that may try to set up. The burn chance makes physical attackers afraid of Blastoise and allows it to check them while it has most of its HP. Roar weakens potential switch-ins that would threaten Blastoise, such as Roserade and Raikou, by forcing them to take repeated hazard damage. Roar also prevents Blastoise from being setup bait and allows it to check Substitute boosting sweepers, most notably Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra. Dragon Tail is an alternative to Roar that hits Wonder Skin Venomoth more accurately and does more damage to switch-ins. However, Dragon Tail can miss and it often cannot break the opponent's Substitutes. Foresight is very useful in allowing Blastoise to Rapid Spin immediately against bulky Ghost-types, such as Cofagrigus and Dusclops, which would take many turns to KO. Toxic may be used to cripple these bulky Ghost-types, as the badly poisoned status condition ruins Pokemon intended to stay in battle many turns.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Physical defense is maximized because Water typing lends itself to checking physical attackers. A Relaxed nature should be used with Dragon Tail to ensure that it always breaks the Substitutes of Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra, but otherwise Bold is preferred. Blastoise can use a special EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature to check certain special threats, most notably Rain Dance Kingdra and Chandelure. Ice Beam can be used over Roar or Foresight to hit common Grass-type switch-ins such as Roserade and Shaymin. However, it won't OHKO and Blastoise will still be forced out of battle. Both of Blastoise's abilities are very situational. With respect to Torrent, a low health Blastoise isn't much use and the power of a boosted Scald is minimal. Rain Dish Blastoise is good against the very situational Rain Dance team as well as Rain Dance Kingdra, but the ability is otherwise useless. Blastoise likes to be paired with Pokemon that can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks. Any Grass-type resists those two types, but Roserade in particular pairs with Blastoise very well. It provides special bulk that compliments Blastoise's physical bulk and its ability to set entry hazards with Spikes compliments Blastoise's ability to clear them from your side of the field. Although they cannot deal with powerful Electric-type attacks, Crobat and Zapdos can easily take Grass-type attacks and they help check Fighting-types that can break through Blastoise over time with high-powered STABs. Both Flying-types appreciate Blastoise's ability to remove Stealth Rock from the field. Darmanitan enjoys playing without Stealth Rock on the field as it is particularly prone to passive damage. Furthermore, Blastoise can check Rhyperior, a Darmanitan counter, while Darmanitan threatens Grass-types that come in easily on Blastoise. Snorlax can stomach almost any special attack that may be flung at Blastoise, and a lack of entry hazards makes it a much safer counter to powerful special attackers, such as Raikou and Zapdos, which could break through it eventually with the assistance of hazards.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Rapid Spin is the main draw of Blastoise and as such it cannot do much else. It can try a RestTalk set to increase longevity; however, with the sleep counter resetting every switch it can become a liability very quickly. With a usable base 85 Special Attack and access to the powerful Water Spout, Blastoise can attempt an offensive Choice Specs or Scarf set, but this is better left to Empoleon or Swampert which have better offenses. Blastoise can utilize Aqua Jet to inflict a small amount of damage first, but this only helps against the rare Focus Sash Pokemon or Pokemon already at very low health.</p>

    [Check and Counters]

    <p>While it may be difficult to block Blastoise's Rapid Spin, defeating it isn't very difficult. Blastoise cannot often switch in for free. Strong neutral attacks that it uses to enter battle, such as Heracross's Close Combat or Rhyperior's Earthquake, wear it down very quickly as Blastoise lacks recovery. Choice Band Heracross with Guts can check Blastoise and become a major threat to the opponent's team if burned. Electric- and Grass-types are able to do massive amounts of damage with their super effective STABs and can switch in for free on a predicted Rapid Spin. Roserade in particular can enter battle and immediately start putting Spikes back on the field while shrugging off a burn with Natural Cure. Shaymin can also easily enter battle, but instead of hazards it threatens the opponent's team with powerful Seed Flares. Zapdos and Raikou both put a large offensive strain on the opponent's team with their large Special Attack stats and great Electric-type STAB, and if they switch into Blastoise for free on Rapid Spin, they can start tearing the opponent's team apart. Choice Specs Kingdra resists Scald, doesn't fear burn, and can threaten physically bulky Blastoise with a 2HKO from Draco Meteor, but is unable to do so to a specially bulky Blastoise, and switching into Dragon Tail can be painful.</p>
  2. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    As a first thought, maybe AC mention a mixed spread of 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD Bold? It avoid the 2HKO from RD Kingdra's Dragon Pulse after SR (moreso if you're using Rain Dish), along with avoiding the 2HKO from Modest Scarf Chandy's Shadow Ball, while still tanking physical hits well (just don't expect it to take CB Victini's Bolt Strike and keep switching into stuff).
    I still think Roar should be a slash—maybe you discussed this with QC, I don't know—since -Atk Dragon Tail can be really counterproductive against a lot of stuff, I don't think it can even break Kingdra's Sub all the time. Off the top of my head there aren't many things that could set up on Blastoise for fear of Scald burns outside of Kingdra (stuff that don't force it out anyway), but something like SubPunch Azumarill could threaten your team, even if that's a horrible example lol. SubSD Cobalion has a really small chance to OHKO Blastoise after SR and Lefties provided the latter switched while Cobalion used Substitute, broke Cobalion's Sub while it SD'd and then it attacked Blastoise, but not much more than that—Roar also allows Blastoise to phaze Bisharp without taking much damage or no damage at all, so it does have some good points.
  3. Ace Emerald

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    0 Atk Blastoise always breaks Kingdra's 0/0 Sub, I edited Relaxed to be first because I don't think there are any repercussions. Added Roar as a slash because those are fair points. The alternative spread looks good to me, but I'll wait for QC input.
  4. Ernesto

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    Maybe I jump into conclusions too fast, apparently 12 Atk EVs (with a negative nature) are all the investment Blastoise needs in order to break 0/0 Kingdra's Substitutes. Don't be fooled by the calc, since Kingdra's Subs have a quarter of its max HP rounded down, Blastoise only needs to deal 72 damage minimum to break the Subs. That's just in case you down want to make youself slower on purpose, but I suppose Relaxed can work too—unless it means Blastoise is suddenly slower than something it would like to be able to Toxic, but I don't think that will happen.
    So, a spread of 248 HP / 12 Atk / 248 Def Bold acommplishes pretty much the same defensively, while it can guarantee you break Kingdra's Subs without having to make yourself slower than opposing Blastoise I guess
  5. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    QC Approved 1/2
  6. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    When you mention Heracross in the Counters section, you should mention that it is a pretty good switch in to Blastoise, since it's fatty Special Defense will pad it against Scald's low base power, and it gets Guts Boost from both Toxic and Scald Burns. Except for Phazing, there's nothing Blastoise can do to it, and it has no recovery heal after being battered by CC/Megahorn
  7. cim

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    honestly i wouldn't lower speed on blastoise. it's one of the fastest walls in UU and that matters against a lot of slow pokemon. does doing dick% more damage with dragon tail really matter?
  8. Nas

    Nas I bring the drama
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    Relaxed is necessary to ensure that Dragon Tail breaks DD Kingdra's substitutes. However, I'm not a huge fan of 90% accurate phazing moves that are blocked by Substitute. I don't think that Venomoth alone makes Dragon Tail worth using over Roar, so I'd rather you reverse the order and make the nature Bold / Relaxed.
  9. Chou Toshio

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    ^I don't get it, what does Venomoth have to do with phazing? It doesn't have Taunt.
  10. Nas

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    Wonder Skin makes Roar miss 50% of the time.
  11. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Hm, have you tested Specs Blastoise out this gen? If I remember correctly, it was highly effective back in gen 4 for luring out spinblokers and totalling them, so another Pokemon can actually spin easily. You easily 2HKO Cofagrigus with 87.5% Water Spout and flatten frailer spinblockers as well. This is not to mention Specs Water Spout hits hard as fuck, very little can wall it, you 2HKO Offensive Snorlax after SR with it at full power

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Rapid Spin
    ability: Torrent
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Just note that Rain Dish is illegal with Water Spout.
  12. Chou Toshio

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    That was the only thing I thought possible but...

    Looking at the description on Smogon, I figured "Status" meant stuff like burn/sleep. @.@ Maybe our site description needs to go into detail into exactly which moves Wonder Skin affects.

    edit: Torrent would probably be the better ability on a Specs set anyway.
  13. DestinyUnknown

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    I don't quite see the specs set, like why would you use it and what does it accomplish? (I mean, aside from what a similar pokemon like Specs Kingdra would). Btw, you should mention Ice Beam in AC as it lets Blastoise do something to Shaymin / Roserade in the switch in (and it's not like Foresight and Toxic are very useful anyway)
  14. PK Gaming

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    I wouldn't say that Heracross can fearlessly switch into Heracross since it takes too much damage (26.24 - 31.22%) from Scald. If it burns, sure you get a guts activation, but that burn damage will add up, and Hera will lose a minimum of 40% at the end of that turn. And for what? A power boost? Your opponents likely has a stronger Heracross check than Blastoise and if they don't, you won't beat it without losing a lot of life. Directly switching Heracross into Blastoise's scalds is a reckless move imo. It can't even check Blastoise if its taken any sort of damage.

    I wouldn't just mention Heracross in checks & counters solely because of guts. It abuses guts on a case by case basis (otherwise we would have to mention Heracross in the counters section of EVERY status abuser). Instead, I would specifically mention that CB Heracross is decent Blastoise check, because it can switch and easily 2HKO (surprisingly difficult for a physical attacker) with either physical move and doesn't care about potential scald burns; infact, it has a chance of OHKOing Blastoise if it gets the burn.

    No to Choice Specs. Blastoise is waaaay too slow to abuse Choice Specs Water Spout. Its effective against special tanks, but its forced by pretty much anything that's faster that can hit it hard. It's also utterly outclassed by Specs Empoleon who outdamages Timid Specs Blastoise.
  15. DestinyUnknown

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    Yeah this looks fine but I agree with PK on the Heracross' subject, don't mention it as a foolproof counter (especially considering most common set, Choice Scarf, loses against Blastoise) but just as an ok check.

    QC Approved 2/2
  16. Ace Emerald

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    Written up, looking for one more QC check.
  17. kokoloko

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    is good

    QC Approved 3/3
  18. GatoDelFuego

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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Blastoise is famous for being the best user of Rapid Spin in UU. Its usable bulk and decent defensive typing give Blastoise many opportunities to enter battle and clear hazards from the field. Its access to Scald gives it a chance to burn Ghost-types that try and prevent the use of Rapid Spin and possibly ruin their longevity. It can even bypass their Normal-type immunity to Rapid Spin entirely with Foresight. Scald's burn chance combined with Blastoise's access to phazing moves ensure that other Pokemon won't use Blastoise as setup bait. Unfortunately, though it is a good Rapid Spinner, it is a bad bulky Water-type. The other bulky Water-types, such as Suicune, Slowbro, Milotic, and Swampert, offer better bulk and various other advantages, such as recovery, better movepools, and useful secondary typings. These Pokemon often take up Blastoise's niche, (RC) and make it hard to fit on teams. Even so, Blastoise continues to find space on teams as a great Rapid Spinner.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Roar / Dragon Tail
    move 4: Foresight / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The purpose of this set is to support teams by clearing entry hazards from your side of the field. As such, Rapid Spin is the crucial move of the set. Scald's burn chance wears down Ghost-types that try to block Rapid Spin, as well as cripple Pokemon that may try to set up. The burn chance makes physical attackers afraid of Blastoise, (RC) and allows it to check them while it has most of its HP. Roar weakens potential switch-ins that would threaten Blastoise, such as Roserade and Raikou, by forcing them to take repeated hazard damage. Roar also prevents Blastoise from being setup bait and allows it to check Substitute boosting sweepers, most notably Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra. Dragon Tail is an alternate to Roar that hits Wonder Skin Venomoth more accurately and does more damage to switch-ins. However, Dragon Tail can miss and it often cannot break Substitutes. Foresight is very useful in allowing Blastoise to Rapid Spin immediately against bulky Ghost-types, such as Cofagrigus and Dusclops, which would take many turns to KO. Toxic may be used to cripple these bulky Ghost-types, as the badly poisoned status condition ruins Pokemon intended to stay in battle many turns.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Physical defense is maximized because Water typing lends itself to physical defense. Its two weaknesses, Grass- and Electric-type, are primarily special types. A Relaxed nature should be used with Dragon Tail to ensure that it always breaks the Substitutes from Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra, but otherwise Bold is preferred. Blastoise can use a special EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature to check certain special threats, such as Rain Dance Kingdra or Chandelure. Ice Beam can be used over Roar or Foresight to hit common Grass-type switch-ins such as Roserade and Shaymin. However, it won't OHKO and Blastoise will still be forced out of battle. Both of Blastoise's abilities are very situational. With respect to Torrent, a low health Blastoise isn't much use and the power of a boosted Scald is minimal. Rain Dish Blastoise is good against the very situational Rain Dance team as well as Rain Dance Kingdra, but the ability is otherwise useless. Blastoise likes to be paired with Pokemon can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks. Any Grass-type resists those two types, but Roserade pairs with Blastoise very well. It provides special bulk that compliments Blastoise's physical bulk and its ability to set entry hazards with Spikes compliments Blastoise's ability to clear them from your side of the field. Although they cannot deal with powerful Electric-type attacks, Crobat and Zapdos can easily take Grass-type attacks and they help check Fighting-types that can break through Blastoise over time with high-powered STABs. Both Flying-types appreciate Blastoise's ability to remove Stealth Rock from the field. Snorlax can stomach almost any special attack that may be flung at Blastoise, and a lack of entry hazards makes it a much safer counter to powerful special attackers, such as Raikou and Zapdos, who which could break through it eventually with the assistance of hazards.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Rapid Spin is the main draw of Blastoise and as such it cannot do much else. It can try a RestTalk set to increase longevity, however with the Sleep counter resetting every switch it can become a liability very quickly. With a usable base 85 Special Attack and access to the powerful Water Spout, Blastoise can attempt an offensive Choice Specs or Scarf set, however but this is better left to Empoleon or Swampert who which have better offenses. Blastoise can utilize Aqua Jet to inflict a small amount of damage first, but this only helps against the rare Focus Sash Pokemon or Pokemon already at very low health</p>

    [Check and Counters]

    <p>While it may be difficult to block Blastoise's Rapid Spin, defeating it isn't very difficult. Blastoise cannot often switch in for free. Strong neutral attacks that it uses to enter battle, such as Heracross's Close Combat or Rhyperior's Earthquake, wear it down very quickly as Blastoise lacks recovery. Choice Band Heracross with Guts can check Blastoise and become a major threat to the opponent's team if burned. Electric- and Grass-types are able to do massive amounts of damage with their super effective STABs, (RC) and can switch in for free on a predicted Rapid Spin. Roserade in particular can enter battle and immediately start putting Spikes back on the field, while shrugging off a burn with Natural Cure. Shaymin can also easily enter battle, and but instead of hazards it threatens the opponent's team with powerful Seed Flares. Zapdos and Raikou both put a large offensive strain on the opponent's team with their large Special Attack stats and great Electric-type STAB, and if they switch into Blastoise for free on Rapid Spin, they can start tearing the opponent's team apart. Choice Specs Kingdra resists Scald, doesn't fear burn, and can threaten physically bulky Blastoise with a 2HKO from Draco Meteor, however but it is unable to do so to a specially bulky Blastoise, and switching into Dragon Tail can be painful.</p>


    Nice work with this
    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  19. Ace Emerald

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    Forgot about that >.> check implemented, hit me with another.
  20. Oglemi

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    add
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    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Blastoise is famous for being the best user of Rapid Spin in UU. Its usable bulk and decent defensive typing give Blastoise many opportunities to enter battle and clear hazards from the field. Its access to Scald gives it a chance to burn Ghost-types that try and prevent the use of Rapid Spin and possibly ruin their longevity. It can even bypass their immunity to Rapid Spin entirely with Foresight. Scald's burn chance combined with Blastoise's access to phazing moves ensure that other Pokemon won't use Blastoise as setup bait. Unfortunately, though it is a good Rapid Spin user, it is a bad bulky Water-type. The other bulky Water-types, such as Suicune, Slowbro, Milotic, and Swampert, offer better bulk and various other advantages, such as recovery, better movepools, and useful secondary typings. These Pokemon often take up Blastoise's niche and make it hard to fit on teams. Even so, Blastoise continues to find space on teams as a great spinner.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Roar / Dragon Tail
    move 4: Foresight / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The purpose of this set is to support teams by clearing entry hazards from your side of the field. As such, Rapid Spin is the crucial move of the set. Scald's burn chance wears down Ghost-types that try to block Rapid Spin, as well as cripples Pokemon that may try to set up. The burn chance makes physical attackers afraid of Blastoise and allows it to check them while it has most of its HP. Roar weakens potential switch-ins that would threaten Blastoise, such as Roserade and Raikou, by forcing them to take repeated hazard damage. Roar also prevents Blastoise from being setup bait and allows it to check Substitute boosting sweepers, most notably Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra. Dragon Tail is an alternative to Roar that hits Wonder Skin Venomoth more accurately and does more damage to switch-ins. However, Dragon Tail can miss and it often cannot break the opponent's Substitutes. Foresight is very useful in allowing Blastoise to Rapid Spin immediately against bulky Ghost-types, such as Cofagrigus and Dusclops, which would take many turns to KO. Toxic may be used to cripple these bulky Ghost-types, as the badly poisoned status condition ruins Pokemon intended to stay in battle many turns.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Physical defense is maximized because Water typing lends itself to checking physical attackers. A Relaxed nature should be used with Dragon Tail to ensure that it always breaks the Substitutes of Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra, but otherwise Bold is preferred. Blastoise can use a special EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature to check certain special threats, most notably Rain Dance Kingdra and Chandelure. Ice Beam can be used over Roar or Foresight to hit common Grass-type switch-ins such as Roserade and Shaymin. However, it won't OHKO and Blastoise will still be forced out of battle. Both of Blastoise's abilities are very situational. With respect to Torrent, a low health Blastoise isn't much use and the power of a boosted Scald is minimal. Rain Dish Blastoise is good against the very situational Rain Dance team as well as Rain Dance Kingdra, but the ability is otherwise useless. Blastoise likes to be paired with Pokemon that can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks. Any Grass-type resists those two types, but Roserade in particular pairs with Blastoise very well. It provides special bulk that compliments Blastoise's physical bulk and its ability to set entry hazards with Spikes compliments Blastoise's ability to clear them from your side of the field. Although they cannot deal with powerful Electric-type attacks, Crobat and Zapdos can easily take Grass-type attacks and they help check Fighting-types that can break through Blastoise over time with high-powered STABs. Both Flying-types appreciate Blastoise's ability to remove Stealth Rock from the field. Darmanitan enjoys playing without Stealth Rock on the field as it is particularly prone to passive damage. Furthermore, Blastoise can check Rhyperior, a Darmanitan counter, while Darmanitan threatens Grass-types that come in easily on Blastoise. Snorlax can stomach almost any special attack that may be flung at Blastoise, and a lack of entry hazards makes it a much safer counter to powerful special attackers, such as Raikou and Zapdos, which could break through it eventually with the assistance of hazards.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Rapid Spin is the main draw of Blastoise and as such it cannot do much else. It can try a RestTalk set to increase longevity; however, with the sleep counter resetting every switch it can become a liability very quickly. With a usable base 85 Special Attack and access to the powerful Water Spout, Blastoise can attempt an offensive Choice Specs or Scarf set, but this is better left to Empoleon or Swampert which have better offenses. Blastoise can utilize Aqua Jet to inflict a small amount of damage first, but this only helps against the rare Focus Sash Pokemon or Pokemon already at very low health.</p>

    [Check and Counters]

    <p>While it may be difficult to block Blastoise's Rapid Spin, defeating it isn't very difficult. Blastoise cannot often switch in for free. Strong neutral attacks that it uses to enter battle, such as Heracross's Close Combat or Rhyperior's Earthquake, wear it down very quickly as Blastoise lacks recovery. Choice Band Heracross with Guts can check Blastoise and become a major threat to the opponent's team if burned. Electric- and Grass-types are able to do massive amounts of damage with their super effective STABs and can switch in for free on a predicted Rapid Spin. Roserade in particular can enter battle and immediately start putting Spikes back on the field while shrugging off a burn with Natural Cure. Shaymin can also easily enter battle, but instead of hazards it threatens the opponent's team with powerful Seed Flares. Zapdos and Raikou both put a large offensive strain on the opponent's team with their large Special Attack stats and great Electric-type STAB, and if they switch into Blastoise for free on Rapid Spin, they can start tearing the opponent's team apart. Choice Specs Kingdra resists Scald, doesn't fear burn, and can threaten physically bulky Blastoise with a 2HKO from Draco Meteor, but is unable to do so to a specially bulky Blastoise, and switching into Dragon Tail can be painful.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  21. Ace Emerald

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    Visual Media Head

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,038
    I'm a slow. This is done.

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