1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Blastoise (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Plusle, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
    [Overview]

    <p>Despite competition from bulkier Waters and a plethora of Rapid Spinners, Blastoise remains a strong Pokemon of the UU tier. Its main use is as a bulky Rapid Spinner, which it does very well with its strong defenses and great Water typing. Its excellent movepool allows it to serve other functions, from utilizing offensive Choice items to stalling opponents out with Toxic. Sadly, Blastoise is weakened by his lacks of a reliable recovery move and weakness to Thunderbolt, a move commonly found on many Rapid Spin blockers, such as Rotom. It is also checked by the numerous UU Grass-types, namely Leafeon, Venausaur, and Sceptile. Even with its flaws, Blastoise is still a staple Pokemon of the UU tier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam / Foresight
    move 3: Rapid Spin
    move 4: Roar / Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Blastoise is one of a handful of Pokemon gifted with the ever-useful Rapid Spin, and because of its bulk and great defensive typing, it can easily find opportunities to use it. It has little trouble switching in on common walls and using Rapid Spin to blow away any entry hazards. In addition to Rapid Spin, it has a number of good options for further team support such as Roar, as well as good offensive type coverage provided by Surf and Ice Beam. Blastoise makes a great teammate because of its versatility and ability to deal with a large variety of Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Surf is Blastoise's main form of STAB, and a no-brainer on any bulky Water. If you invest 32 EVs into Speed, Blastoise can outspeed Jolly Rhyperior and Adamant Aggron and threaten them with a powerful Surf. The last two slots are not as straight forward, as Blastoise's excellent movepool allows it to use lots of moves to support its team. Toxic is a great option for wearing down opposing bulky Waters and other opposing walls, while Yawn is a decent choice to put an enemy to sleep or force a switch. Foresight allows Blastoise to successfully spin away entry hazards against Ghost-type switch-ins. However, it still must be wary of Mismagius and Rotom who carry Thunderbolt. Ice Beam allows Blastoise to counter opposing Grass-types that switch in on it on the switch in. If you opt for Toxic in the third slot, Roar is an option to scout the enemy's team, rack up entry hazard damage, and prevent opponents from setting up. Protect is also an option in the last slot, as it can help scout out Choice users, and allows for an extra turn of Leftovers recovery while working well alongside both Toxic and Yawn. Rest deserves a mention as well, as Blastoise unfortunately lacks an instant recovery move.</p>

    <p>Ghost- and Grass-types are Blastoise's two greatest counters; Ghost-type Pokemon prevent Blastoise without Foresight from using Rapid Spin successfully. Furthermore, Spiritomb has the defenses that allow it to sponge Surf easily, while Mismagius and Rotom both threaten Blastoise with Thunderbolt. To remedy this, specially defensive variants of Registeel, Spiritomb, and Arcanine all work very well in tandem with Blastoise, walling Ghost-types when outfitted with the proper moves. Additionally, Blastoise can double switch to a Pursuit user such as Spiritomb, Drapion, or Skuntank to rid itself of Mismagius and Rotom. Altaria is one of the best switch-ins to Venusaur, as it does not fear any of its attacks, and can absorb Sleep Powder thanks to Natural Cure. Venusaur itself also makes a great counter to Grass-types, although it must be wary of variants that carry Hidden Power Ice or Fire. Arcanine and Moltres can also switch in on Grass-types and scare them off. Fire-types will also benefit greatly from Blastoise due to their weakness to Stealth Rock. RestTalk Arcanine works especially well, as it can absorb Sleep Powder and Toxic. From there, it can use Sleep Talk to pummel opponents with Flare Blitz or shuffle them with Roar to allow entry hazards to chip away at their HP. Since Blastoise's primary job is to Rapid Spin, a grounded Poison-type is very useful in absorbing Toxic Spikes. Drapion and Venusaur are two great candidates as they easily handle the Grass attacks aimed at Blastoise while fulfilling this role at the same time. </p>

    <p>Although not mandatory, a Wish user can prolong Blastoise's presence tremendously. Leafeon makes a great partner because it resists Blastoise's weakness to Grass and Electric, while Blastoise resists Leafeon's Fire and Ice weaknesses. Chansey and Clefable can fill the same role and also provide a special wall for your team. Clerics are also good friends of Blastoise since it fears status moves, especially Toxic. They are also great if you are running Rest in the last slot and do not want to leave Blastoise vulnerable.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk Shuffler
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a completely different approach to using Blastoise, while allowing it to keep it defensive role. The "RestTalk" strategy not only gives Blastoise a way to heal itself, but also allows it to absorb the status moves it normally loathes. Meanwhile, Roar is used to shuffle opponents, allowing entry hazards to take their toll while Blastoise can tank hits. Roar also makes Blastoise extremely difficult to set up on, which opponents will inevitably attempt to do once Blastoise uses Rest. Conveniently, Sleep Talk also overrides Roar's -5 priority, meaning it can phaze slower opponents before they can attack. Surf's STAB and neutral type coverage make it a great attack to use with this set, allowing Blastoise to wear down opponents in its sleep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set functions well on any team that incorporates Spikes and Stealth Rock, although it functions best on a stall team where it can be supported by other defensive Pokemon. Even without entry hazards, it still serves multiple useful purposes. Roar makes it a great phazer, and its bulk allows it to take many boosted physical attacks and then force the opponent to flee. It is especially useful against Curse and Calm Mind users, such as Registeel, Slowbro, and Miltank, that may prove difficult to take down with attacks.</p>

    <p>It is worth noting that Rapid Spin can replace Roar, but doing so changes the function and purpose of the set completely. With Rapid Spin, Blastoise plays much like it does in the Utility set, but with the addition of a recovery move and the omission of a status move. Stay away from replacing Roar with Ice Beam or Toxic, as Milotic can fill this niche significantly better.</p>

    <p>There are plenty of options available for Stealth Rock users, but Registeel is one of the best at handling Blastoise's weaknesses. Do not expect to find a Spiker in UU that pairs well with Blastoise defensively, as there really is not one (outside of the frail Cacturne). For this reason, Spikers like Omastar, Qwilfish, and Cloyster are best used in the lead slot.</p>

    <p>Grass- and Electric-types, as well as other powerful special attackers such as Alakazam and Mismagius, need to be removed for Blastoise to be truly effective, although Blastoise does enjoy Roaring them away when they try to switch in. Chansey is, of course, the best Pokemon in the tier at walling special threats, and does so with ease. Additionally, it can utilize Aromatherapy to shorten Blastoise's slumber. The aforementioned specially defensive variants of Registeel, Spiritomb, and Arcanine all make for great checks to Blastoise's common switch-ins. RestTalk Weezing does an excellent job at walling Grass-types, and can be used in tandem with Blastoise to shut down almost all physical sweepers in the tier. Venusaur also provides great synergy with Blastoise, as it can handle both Grass- and Electric-types while having its own weaknesses to Fire and Ice attacks covered by Blastoise. Altaria works well also, having access to Heal Bell and Natural Cure, while only needing to be wary of Hidden Power Ice and boosted special attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tortoise of Choice
    move 1: Water Spout / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Surf / Rapid Spin
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although slapping Choice Specs on Blastoise may seem like an awkward fit, when paired with the turtle's recent acquisition, Water Spout, it makes for a very potent combination. Water Spout is a move that, despite its awesome power, is very rarely seen outside of the Uber tier, which is mostly attributable to the low Speed of its two NU owners: Octillery and Wailord. Blastoise, however, is not only considerably faster than these two, but also is also primarily used as a defensive Pokemon, which gives it the surprise factor that its counterparts lack.</p>

    <p>The beauty of this set lies not in its raw attacking power, but instead in its ability to lure in and destroy UU's top spinblockers; Rotom, Mismagius, and Spiritomb. When your opponent has Stealth Rock up in the early-game, switching in Blastoise will immediately coax out their spinblocker and allow Blastoise to KO it with Water Spout. Quickly dispensing of these Pokemon will allow Rapid Spinners such as Donphan and Claydol to perform their jobs with ease. As demonstrated by the damage calculations below, standard variants of Rotom and Mismagius will be OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage, while most Spiritomb will take massive damage and be primed for an easy 2HKO.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <ul class=”damage_calculation”>
    <li>87.5% HP Water Spout vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius - 87.4% - 103.4%</li>
    <li>87.5% HP Water Spout vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom - 98% - 115.8%</li>
    <li>87.5% HP Water Spout vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Spiritomb - 73.4% - 86.8%</li>
    <li>Max HP Water Spout vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Clefable - 55.8% - 65.7%</li>
    <li>Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur - 77.7% - 91.7%</li>
    <li>Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sceptile - 95% - 112.1%</li>
    <li>Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Milotic - 36.1% - 42.7%</li>
    <li>Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro - 51.8% - 61.4%</li>
    <li>Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill - 51% - 60.4%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>The attacks on this set are pretty much standard in UU in terms of type coverage. Ice Beam covers Altaria and Grass-types, while Hidden Power Grass smacks bulky Waters who will attempt to wall Blastoise. A second Water-type move is often necessary to give Blastoise a STAB move when its HP drops below a certain point. When running Surf, Water Spout is the preferable attack while Blastoise's HP exceeds 63%. It should be noted that Rapid Spin is also a viable option in the last slot if you do not want to use a dedicated Rapid Spinner. However, switching Blastoise into Stealth Rock twice (once to KO the opponent's spinblocker, and once to Rapid Spin) hurts Water Spout greatly, to the point that Hydro Pump will usually be the superior option.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf is a viable option over Choice Specs if you want to transform Blastoise into a revenge killer of sorts. With a Modest nature and a spread of 16 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe it climbs near the top of the Speed tiers, outpacing all base 120s. Being faster than the likes of Sceptile and Alakazam will certainly surprise your opponent. Without Choice Specs, however, Blastoise becomes significantly less powerful, and will struggle to achieve the KOs it needs. Therefore, entry hazards are important to pair with this set in order to weaken fragile Pokemon. When played correctly, this set's Speed can make it a very potent check to quite a few sweepers. It should be noted that, while it does not score the same OHKOs on Ghost-types, it outspeeds and 2HKOes them easily if they stay in.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, this set is made to be best friends with a Rapid Spinner. Donphan and Claydol both make solid partners and have the added bonus of being immune to Electric attacks. Hitmontop is also an option, although Foresight allows it to effectively take on spinblockers by itself. Pairing Blastoise with any of these Pokemon makes for a trustworthy method of eliminating entry hazards, which allows Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon to reach their full potential. Some of the most fearsome attackers in UU fit this bill, including Scyther, Moltres, Swellow, Houndoom, and even Charizard.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Blastoise has a few handy options that have yet to be mentioned. Haze can get rid of stat boosts, but it is usually overshadowed by Milotic in this department. Another rather gimmicky option is Counter and Mirror Coat, allowing Blastoise to score a surprise KO on an unsuspecting opponent. It can survive most non-STABed Grass and Electric attacks, making Mirror Coat a good option if you are willing to allow Blastoise to take the hit. Meanwhile, it is very difficult for opponents to OHKO Blastoise through physical attacks, so Counter allows Blastoise to bounce back those attacks for heavy damage. Blastoise also carries some nifty physical moves such as Waterfall, Ice Punch, and Earthquake, but these should be avoided as Azumarill, Feraligatr, and Kabutops completely outclass it in this department; however, Blastoise has the element of surprise on its side with these attacks, if nothing else.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Despite its unimpressive defenses, Rotom is a great counter to Blastoise, since it blocks Rapid Spin and can threaten Blastoise with Thunderbolt or Trick. The same can be said for Mismagius, as it usually carries Thunderbolt. Spiritomb can also get in Blastoise's way, but it won't be happy if it gets hit with Toxic. Grass-types are an another huge threat to Blastoise in UU, namely Sceptile, Venusaur, and Leafeon. Venusaur can switch in on Blastoise the easiest, as it does not fear Toxic. If Blastoise lacks Rest, Toxic from the likes of Uxie or Milotic will make sure it does not stick around much longer. Lanturn will not enjoy Toxic, but can switch in easily and defeat Blastoise with Thunderbolt. Chansey can switch in on Blastoise at any time and wall it to no end. Substitute users, such as Toxicroak, Feraligatr, and Azumarill, can all set up on Blastoise if it lacks Haze or Roar. RestTalk stat boosters, such as Calm Mind Spiritomb or Curse Registeel, also give Blastoise trouble, since they can shrug off any inflicted status from Blastoise. Toxicroak is a big threat because it absorbs Surf thanks to Dry Skin and is immune to Poison, rendering Blastoise's two greatest offensive moves useless. Blastoise's final flaw is the lack of an instant recovery move, meaning that you can keep chipping away at it, but Blastoise can also do the same to you, so beware.</p>
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,251
    OK, I'm glad you decided to take the initiative. A couple of things:

    - Add more to the Overview. I don't care what it is, but try to add some personality to it.

    - Squash the OC section into 1 paragraph

    - Squash the Counters section into 1 paragraph.

    May add more later.

    EDIT: Add a link to the old OP please.
  3. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,337
    When I used Blastoise in the past, I did so with 32 Speed EVs. That's enough to outpace Adamant Aggron and Jolly Rhyperior (not that common, but I'd rather not risk against neither). Might not be a huge change, but it was something I thought was worth adding. Also, I'm pretty sure ToF had made some changes on the order of slashes, so I'd take a look at it.
  4. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
    Fixed all the slashes and gave the speed evs a AC mention. Will finish updating tommorow.
  5. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
  6. danmantincan

    danmantincan

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,805
    Removals in Red
    Changes in Green
    Comments in Bold
    Looked pretty good to my untrained eye, mostly some stuff in the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised that I missed some stuff though.
  7. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
    Thanks! I will update it now.


    Edit:Done
  8. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,339
    I refrained from any major corrections in terms of sentence structure and rhetoric, as I don't want to stray into the realm of actually re doing the entire analysis. I'm hoping a more experienced GP checker can fix up the rest of the mistakes that are prevalent within this analysis.
  9. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
    Ok I will add those now. Sorry I missed your post and I was busy.
  10. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
  11. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    [​IMG]
    You get a stamp for those two checks above. This needs only +1.
  12. Plusle

    Plusle

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,042
    Thanks. 1 more.
  13. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,013
    2/2

    Show Hide

    In
    Out
    (shake it all about)
    [​IMG]
  14. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,172
    Rather than deleting it completely, I'd recommend moving the bit in Team Options about carrying a grounded Poison like Venusaur/Nidoqueen into AC of the Utility set. It's a useful point that shouldn't be left out.
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,251
    Thanks for pointing that out Honko.

    NOTE TO GP CHECKERS: Please don't just delete the TO section willy-nilly. Some of the writers on here (including me) save some unique examples just for the TO section, so be sure those examples get placed elsewhere in the analysis (which requires you to read the TO section). (Not that I'm calling you out directly Komodo.)
  16. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,251
    Uploaded

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)